HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Notices

Matt Walker clears re-entry waivers

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-01-2011, 06:18 PM
  #251
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 109,487
vCash: 5500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Pissing away players, meaning waiving a redundant player in Nodl and POTENTIALLY losing Walker to waivers? Yeah, the first one is killing this team both this season and in the future. That 4-7th round pick is going to come back to haunt us. And re-calling Walker, who may or may not be claimed, is going to murder their chances as well. If he gets claimed and the Flyers have to send down Harry Z to make room, once again they are doomed. They won't be able to pick up another marginal player at the trade deadline! Obviously the potential to have $850k in dead space sucks, but I would be absolutely shocked if that $850k and not getting a 6th round pick or even keeping Nodl is what will make this team lose the Cup. This is all without considering the fact that Walker may not even get claimed.

You say he is making it more difficult, despite the fact that he puts together a competitive team year in and year out. Very few, if any, teams put together a genuine Cup favorite on a yearly basis. The Flyers, are in the conversation every year, which you have said already is what you want. To be a Cup competitor on a yearly basis. What more do you want? A dynasty? 12 straight Cups? It won't happen now or ever for any team.
Just FYI, Nodl was claimed because we had too many contracts. The day after Nodl is claimed, Walker is put on re-entry waivers. If Walker is claimed, that make Nodl's waiving - by definition - pointless.

We would also carrying what Nodl would be making in dead cap space. For as long as Nodl is under contract. If Holmgren would have thought this through, he would have recalled Walker on Tuesday, and waive Nodl today if he had to. Keep in mind this team is obsessed with spending to the cap. Every penny is important.

It's probably about 80/20 that Walker makes it through, but there's no reason to take that chance. You obviously feel that Walker is a replaceable player. Surely, there are other Matt Walker's around while the real one rides a bus.

Holmgren always talks about giving himself options, when he repeatedly takes options off the table.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 07:01 PM
  #252
DeflatedFootball7
Registered User
 
DeflatedFootball7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Belleville
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,945
vCash: 500
Uh...why are people saying we lose a sixth round pick if we lose Walker

DeflatedFootball7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 07:05 PM
  #253
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 15,330
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Pissing away players, meaning waiving a redundant player in Nodl and POTENTIALLY losing Walker to waivers? Yeah, the first one is killing this team both this season and in the future. That 4-7th round pick is going to come back to haunt us. And re-calling Walker, who may or may not be claimed, is going to murder their chances as well. If he gets claimed and the Flyers have to send down Harry Z to make room, once again they are doomed. They won't be able to pick up another marginal player at the trade deadline! Obviously the potential to have $850k in dead space sucks, but I would be absolutely shocked if that $850k and not getting a 6th round pick or even keeping Nodl is what will make this team lose the Cup. This is all without considering the fact that Walker may not even get claimed.

You say he is making it more difficult, despite the fact that he puts together a competitive team year in and year out. Very few, if any, teams put together a genuine Cup favorite on a yearly basis. The Flyers, are in the conversation every year, which you have said already is what you want. To be a Cup competitor on a yearly basis. What more do you want? A dynasty? 12 straight Cups? It won't happen now or ever for any team.
I think we all finally see the difference between our views and yours. Its the small things. To us, we believe it matters. From small to big, everything contributes in the end. For you though, the small things dont mean anything. Only big.

sa cyred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 07:48 PM
  #254
Kaktus*
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 22,389
vCash: 500
If he is claimed I want to see Homers reaction on HBO 24/7.

Kaktus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 07:48 PM
  #255
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 36,857
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
Uh...why are people saying we lose a sixth round pick if we lose Walker
You're not reading correctly.

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 08:04 PM
  #256
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,269
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Just FYI, Nodl was claimed because we had too many contracts. The day after Nodl is claimed, Walker is put on re-entry waivers. If Walker is claimed, that make Nodl's waiving - by definition - pointless.

We would also carrying what Nodl would be making in dead cap space. For as long as Nodl is under contract. If Holmgren would have thought this through, he would have recalled Walker on Tuesday, and waive Nodl today if he had to. Keep in mind this team is obsessed with spending to the cap. Every penny is important.

It's probably about 80/20 that Walker makes it through, but there's no reason to take that chance. You obviously feel that Walker is a replaceable player. Surely, there are other Matt Walker's around while the real one rides a bus.

Holmgren always talks about giving himself options, when he repeatedly takes options off the table.
From what I've read Nodl was waived because he was redundant on the team. Yes it helped that he was claimed and that was probably part of it. But losing Nodl's contract, a guy that we have four of who are not eligible for waivers, and the potential of losing Walker are two different things. Like I said from the get-go, if Walker gets claimed, this was a bonehead move. If not, you can't just say that Homer was lucky, because you don't know what he knows no matter how much you think you do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I think we all finally see the difference between our views and yours. Its the small things. To us, we believe it matters. From small to big, everything contributes in the end. For you though, the small things dont mean anything. Only big.
In a sense, yes. It's more that the good moves with large impacts far outweigh the small moves with little impact. If Walker is claimed and it prevents us from winning the Cup, then ok this was a big mistake. Or even if a bunch of the little mistakes prevents us from winning the Cup. But the problem is that things like waiving Nodl and even this potential debacle are not going to make the difference. Losing a bunch of fringe NHLers and a miniscule fraction of the cap will not prevent this team from winning a Cup this year or next year. Now, if there are more of these moves that is a different story. But at this point, his good moves are so clearly outweighing the bad moves, it makes me wonder just what you would like Homer or any GM to do.

You say you want a team that is perennially competitive. You have it, but it is not good enough. They have to win a Cup. If they win a Cup but lose the next year, that is not good enough. I would like an honest answer of what is expected of Homer or other GMs. Not "Cap management!" "Read the CBA!" An actual answer. It can't be that you want a perennially competitive team, because you have that and are still complaining. Is it perennial Cup contenders? That is extremely rare in any sport, especially hockey. So what is it you want? Perfection? Not going to happen. It seems to me you just need something to complain about.

The Flyers have been to eight Stanley Cups in their 45 years, equal to the number of times they have missed the playoffs. Yes, they haven't won a Stanley Cup in a long time, but they've been close (if not for Gretzky and the one of the best dyansties and sports history, they probably would have had multiple Cups in the 80s) and contenders for the majority of their existence. That is more you can say about most sports franchises, let alone hockey teams. Under Homer they have gone to ECF and SCF and have a shot at that this year (if everyone stays healthy). How many Cups should they have won or would they have won with a different GM?

DrinkFightFlyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 08:23 PM
  #257
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 36,857
vCash: 156
I want a perennial contender that isn't getting hampered by the GM's inability to manage assets and the salary cap, and doesn't constantly make and repeat the same idiotic and avoidable mistakes.

Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 08:25 PM
  #258
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 15,330
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
From what I've read Nodl was waived because he was redundant on the team. Yes it helped that he was claimed and that was probably part of it. But losing Nodl's contract, a guy that we have four of who are not eligible for waivers, and the potential of losing Walker are two different things. Like I said from the get-go, if Walker gets claimed, this was a bonehead move. If not, you can't just say that Homer was lucky, because you don't know what he knows no matter how much you think you do.



In a sense, yes. It's more that the good moves with large impacts far outweigh the small moves with little impact. If Walker is claimed and it prevents us from winning the Cup, then ok this was a big mistake. Or even if a bunch of the little mistakes prevents us from winning the Cup. But the problem is that things like waiving Nodl and even this potential debacle are not going to make the difference. Losing a bunch of fringe NHLers and a miniscule fraction of the cap will not prevent this team from winning a Cup this year or next year. Now, if there are more of these moves that is a different story. But at this point, his good moves are so clearly outweighing the bad moves, it makes me wonder just what you would like Homer or any GM to do.

You say you want a team that is perennially competitive. You have it, but it is not good enough. They have to win a Cup. If they win a Cup but lose the next year, that is not good enough. I would like an honest answer of what is expected of Homer or other GMs. Not "Cap management!" "Read the CBA!" An actual answer. It can't be that you want a perennially competitive team, because you have that and are still complaining. Is it perennial Cup contenders? That is extremely rare in any sport, especially hockey. So what is it you want? Perfection? Not going to happen. It seems to me you just need something to complain about.

The Flyers have been to eight Stanley Cups in their 45 years, equal to the number of times they have missed the playoffs. Yes, they haven't won a Stanley Cup in a long time, but they've been close (if not for Gretzky and the one of the best dyansties and sports history, they probably would have had multiple Cups in the 80s) and contenders for the majority of their existence. That is more you can say about most sports franchises, let alone hockey teams. Under Homer they have gone to ECF and SCF and have a shot at that this year (if everyone stays healthy). How many Cups should they have won or would they have won with a different GM?
But see, where do you or who classifies the small moves and the big? Why wont they make the difference? Its easy to state that they wont, but there is no proof right? In the same realm as saying Nodl wouldnt have done anything to help this team, couldnt he have been the one that might have scored the GWG in the Stanley Cup Final? Obviously thats a big statement, but you see where Im getting at? Just because the impact is small (personal opinion affects who thinks what is small or large) doesnt mean it wont have large ramifications.

What moves Homer has done all depends on the individual. See to you, he "clearly" has more good moves than bad, but to us, its the opposite. You think small moves dont do anything to the team, while we look at the whole picture. EVERYTHING effects the team one way or another. I guess it comes down to one's belief in quantum physics and the butterfly effect. It would be interesting to see what outside fans think of it, for I do think bias opinion is high for both fanboys and haters.

An answer to your question? Win the Stanely Cup. Thats it. Now see, its interesting that you definitely hover between your ideal fundamentals regarding small and large impacts. To you, small impacts dont mean much (in a roster sense) while large do. But then you switch to the other side, for being competitive is enough (in this case small) than the larger impact (Stanley Cup). Perfection is not needed, but also having more positives than negatives is needed. And see, we arent complaining. We are just voicing out opinions just like you are. The majority of us dont agree with his decisions, while a small minority do.

sa cyred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 08:27 PM
  #259
nuclear reactor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I want a perennial contender that isn't getting hampered by the GM's inability to manage assets and the salary cap, and doesn't constantly make and repeat the same idiotic and avoidable mistakes.
You should spend some time on the other team boards. They want a GM who can fill their roster full of talented players like Holmgren has. Go whine to them about Andreas Nodl and Jody Shelley.

nuclear reactor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 08:32 PM
  #260
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,269
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I want a perennial contender
Got that part. Check.

Quote:
that isn't getting hampered by the GM's inability to manage assets and the salary cap,
Debatable on whether or not they have this. You say they are hampered by this, however they have a pretty deep team with some good assets and continue to be a top team in the league. They don't seem to be hampered that much. If you want a good team, chances are you going to have to spend to the top. Pretty sure the last few Cup matchup teams (Canucks and Bruins last year both at the top, Flyers at the top and Blackhawks within $1 mil the year before) have been at or very close to the top of the cap.

Quote:
and doesn't constantly make and repeat the same idiotic and avoidable mistakes.
I'm not sure what mistakes he has repeated. This re-entry waivers mistake hasn't even happened so let's at least wait until tomorrow to crucify him for that. Trading draft picks? I think they have done ok with the picks they have and signings they made to really call this a mistake. He may have shed a few he didn't have to, but again, a "mistake" like that doesn't really matter if they make up for it in other ways. If they had all those picks, would we have Bob? Read? Harry Z? Who knows?

DrinkFightFlyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 08:34 PM
  #261
WeekendAtBernies
Registered User
 
WeekendAtBernies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,716
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
From what I've read Nodl was waived because he was redundant on the team. Yes it helped that he was claimed and that was probably part of it. But losing Nodl's contract, a guy that we have four of who are not eligible for waivers, and the potential of losing Walker are two different things. Like I said from the get-go, if Walker gets claimed, this was a bonehead move. If not, you can't just say that Homer was lucky, because you don't know what he knows no matter how much you think you do.
You just don't get it do you?

There's one point you absolutely cannot argue.

Regardless of what Homer knows or doesn't know, waiving Nodl first was the dumbest thing possible. If you need a roster spot open and you're going to attempt to recall a player, then you RECALL THAT PLAYER FIRST.

If there's even a .000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance (and there is in this case) that Matt Walker gets claimed and you want a roster spot open, you make the re-entry waiver move FIRST and IF HE CLEARS, THEN YOU WAIVE NODL.

I'm sure you'll find some retarded way to support this decision. Probably because Homer knows the future or called Miss Cleo and was informed that in 5 days time, Nodl would've used his cell phone while on the team's charter plane, which would've disrupted the plane's communications system and caused them to fly into another plane.

WeekendAtBernies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 08:37 PM
  #262
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,269
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
But see, where do you or who classifies the small moves and the big? Why wont they make the difference? Its easy to state that they wont, but there is no proof right? In the same realm as saying Nodl wouldnt have done anything to help this team, couldnt he have been the one that might have scored the GWG in the Stanley Cup Final? Obviously thats a big statement, but you see where Im getting at? Just because the impact is small (personal opinion affects who thinks what is small or large) doesnt mean it wont have large ramifications.

What moves Homer has done all depends on the individual. See to you, he "clearly" has more good moves than bad, but to us, its the opposite. You think small moves dont do anything to the team, while we look at the whole picture. EVERYTHING effects the team one way or another. I guess it comes down to one's belief in quantum physics and the butterfly effect. It would be interesting to see what outside fans think of it, for I do think bias opinion is high for both fanboys and haters.

An answer to your question? Win the Stanely Cup. Thats it. Now see, its interesting that you definitely hover between your ideal fundamentals regarding small and large impacts. To you, small impacts dont mean much (in a roster sense) while large do. But then you switch to the other side, for being competitive is enough (in this case small) than the larger impact (Stanley Cup). Perfection is not needed, but also having more positives than negatives is needed. And see, we arent complaining. We are just voicing out opinions just like you are. The majority of us dont agree with his decisions, while a small minority do.
How can you honestly sit there and say there are more negatives than positives??? Even from your POV where you are more harsh on Homer than you think I am, you can't possibly sit there and say there is more negative than positive. If you can, you are delusional. Losing draft picks and marginal NHLers and signing Leighton and Shelley somehow outweigh pretty much this entire roster??? Give me a break! OMG he didn't draft Tomas Hyka! I forgot about that! A player got claimed on re-entry waivers too! That is the first time in history that has ever happened! I wonder if Columbus's GM is available? Maybe Minnesota? Who was Atlanta's GM? Those guys are killing it! How about those other teams with all their draft picks and never lost a player on re-entry waivers. Those guys know how to run a team. This guy Homer is clueless. Yeah he puts together one of the best teams on the ice year in and year out, but look at how many draft picks he has traded! He's clueless!!!

DrinkFightFlyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 08:41 PM
  #263
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,269
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
You just don't get it do you?

There's one point you absolutely cannot argue.

Regardless of what Homer knows or doesn't know, waiving Nodl first was the dumbest thing possible. If you need a roster spot open and you're going to attempt to recall a player, then you RECALL THAT PLAYER FIRST.

If there's even a .000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance (and there is in this case) that Matt Walker gets claimed and you want a roster spot open, you make the re-entry waiver move FIRST and IF HE CLEARS, THEN YOU WAIVE NODL.

I'm sure you'll find some retarded way to support this decision. Probably because Homer knows the future or called Miss Cleo and was informed that in 5 days time, Nodl would've used his cell phone while on the team's charter plane, which would've disrupted the plane's communications system and caused them to fly into another plane.
I'm not sure the point you are trying to make or which point of mine you are arguing. I'm pretty sure Nodl was getting waived one way or another. I don't think it was to make room for Walker. At least I haven't read anything that suggested that.

DrinkFightFlyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 08:43 PM
  #264
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 13,859
vCash: 500
The only thing im confused about here during this whole argument is people saying Walker and Nodl are connected? And not connected by calling them bad moves but one happened because of the other??

Nodl didnt free up a roster spot and we had plenty of room with Lilja and Gus and Pronger on LTIR

Prongo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 08:51 PM
  #265
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 109,487
vCash: 5500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
From what I've read Nodl was waived because he was redundant on the team. Yes it helped that he was claimed and that was probably part of it. But losing Nodl's contract, a guy that we have four of who are not eligible for waivers, and the potential of losing Walker are two different things. Like I said from the get-go, if Walker gets claimed, this was a bonehead move. If not, you can't just say that Homer was lucky, because you don't know what he knows no matter how much you think you do.
That's specifically why you keep Nodl and send down the guys who are so they can improve their game. Remember when Rinaldo was becoming a dedicated penalty killer? Why not let him go do that instead of the uselessness he's given thus far? Surely, you're not overlooking the value of depth in this league. I'd rather have 4 Nodl's at the ready than 3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I'm not sure the point you are trying to make or which point of mine you are arguing. I'm pretty sure Nodl was getting waived one way or another. I don't think it was to make room for Walker. At least I haven't read anything that suggested that.
He was being waived because the Flyers needed a contract spot. That is what happened. If you read something from one of our esteemed writers claiming otherwise, then they're wrong. Holmgren claims it wasn't even for sure that he was sending him to the minors


Last edited by GKJ: 12-01-2011 at 09:32 PM.
GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 08:59 PM
  #266
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 15,330
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
How can you honestly sit there and say there are more negatives than positives??? Even from your POV where you are more harsh on Homer than you think I am, you can't possibly sit there and say there is more negative than positive. If you can, you are delusional. Losing draft picks and marginal NHLers and signing Leighton and Shelley somehow outweigh pretty much this entire roster??? Give me a break! OMG he didn't draft Tomas Hyka! I forgot about that! A player got claimed on re-entry waivers too! That is the first time in history that has ever happened! I wonder if Columbus's GM is available? Maybe Minnesota? Who was Atlanta's GM? Those guys are killing it! How about those other teams with all their draft picks and never lost a player on re-entry waivers. Those guys know how to run a team. This guy Homer is clueless. Yeah he puts together one of the best teams on the ice year in and year out, but look at how many draft picks he has traded! He's clueless!!!
Well there goes a civil conversation. Anyway. I think his main problem is the way he manages the cap. Honestly, its probably the worse in league. You dont here about the constant mistakes made in regards to the cap situation.

Well you threw down a few negatives even though some were more about not knowing rules and regulations compared to the actual crime committed (example Hyka). In that case, you can not say that Homer knew what he was doing, because honestly, he flat out said he messed up.

I would like to hear a bunch of positives please. Now remember, they CLEARLY outweight the negatives. Richards and Carter trade are not considered positives for right now its still to early to decide.

sa cyred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 09:18 PM
  #267
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,269
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
That's specifically why you keep Nodl and send down the guys who are so they can improve their game. Remember when Rinaldo was becoming a dedicated penalty killer? Why not let him go do that instead of the uselessness he's given thus far? Surely, you're not overlooking the value of depth in this league. I'd rather have 4 Nodl's at the ready than 3.
Not if you want to get rid of a guy. If they wanted to keep Nodl, they would have sent down a different guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
He was being waived because the Flyers needed a contract spot. That is what happened. If you read something from one of our esteemed writers claiming otherwise, then they're wrong. Holmgren claims it wasn't even for sure that he was sending him to the minors
If that is the case, which I haven't read anywhere, I still don't see it as a problem. We have a number of guys at roughly the same contract amount who are younger and of equal or the same skill. Why not get rid of a redundant player to potentially make room for another? Where is the problem with that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Well there goes a civil conversation. Anyway. I think his main problem is the way he manages the cap. Honestly, its probably the worse in league. You dont here about the constant mistakes made in regards to the cap situation.

Well you threw down a few negatives even though some were more about not knowing rules and regulations compared to the actual crime committed (example Hyka). In that case, you can not say that Homer knew what he was doing, because honestly, he flat out said he messed up.

I would like to hear a bunch of positives please. Now remember, they CLEARLY outweight the negatives. Richards and Carter trade are not considered positives for right now its still to early to decide.
You really need a list?

Coburn trade
Timonen and Hartnell trade
Betts signing
Bob signing
Read signing
Lupul and Smith trade
Leino trade

I could go on here, and keep in mind these are all moves that have had pretty serious impacts on the team both individually and collectively, unlike the "bad" moves that even collectively have had very little effect. How about I leave it at that and you show me some negatives?

DrinkFightFlyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 09:18 PM
  #268
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 36,857
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Got that part. Check.



Debatable on whether or not they have this. You say they are hampered by this, however they have a pretty deep team with some good assets and continue to be a top team in the league. They don't seem to be hampered that much. If you want a good team, chances are you going to have to spend to the top. Pretty sure the last few Cup matchup teams (Canucks and Bruins last year both at the top, Flyers at the top and Blackhawks within $1 mil the year before) have been at or very close to the top of the cap.



I'm not sure what mistakes he has repeated. This re-entry waivers mistake hasn't even happened so let's at least wait until tomorrow to crucify him for that. Trading draft picks? I think they have done ok with the picks they have and signings they made to really call this a mistake. He may have shed a few he didn't have to, but again, a "mistake" like that doesn't really matter if they make up for it in other ways. If they had all those picks, would we have Bob? Read? Harry Z? Who knows?
1) They've lost several players due to cap mismanagement and been hurt in the regular season several times because they've had to send players down to make room for returning players because Homer doesn't "do" cap management. On top of that Homer has gradually spent more and more time hurting our depth because of his cap management...like losing Gagne, switching out Asham for Shelley, and generally overpaying marginal players. Shelley's useless contract and Leighton's stupid contract alone is 2.6 million they could have used more intelligently...like on a real goalie at a time when we really needed one. Do you really think Randy Jone's dead cap space didn't affect our flexibility at the trade deadline in 2010? If we didn't have that lump of useless cap hit perhaps they could have gotten someone better than Kraijcek.

We recently had to trade the faces of our franchise largely because we were at the cap with no prospects and no freaking picks. The years of keeping everything close to the cap with no regard for the future and throwing draft picks away like candy had caught up to the organization and they were on the precipice. Only recently we had one of, if not the worst, prospect pool in the NHL because draft picks and assets had been cast away...many of them needlessly. And before you say "But he fixed it!" I say **** that, he shouldn't have put the team in that position to begin with. All those "small" things had added up and the team was close to a breaking point, because of his actions.

2) He has repeatedly screwed up simple contract stuff, he has repeatedly lost players on waivers, he repeatedly tosses around draft picks, he constantly overpays his depth players, etc etc. Pay attention, this has all been outlined thoroughly for years. I find it thoroughly insane that you think his lack of draft picks is a GOOD thing. "But we have Read now!" Sure, but if Homer wasn't dumb we could have Read, Harry Z, AND more draft picks. Again...why applaud someone for crawling out of their own sewage? Here's an idea: Don't jump into the sewage in the first place.

He's constantly shooting himself in the foot. In this case, he's got the gun aimed at the floor. It remains to be seen if he loses another toe or if he manages to miss.

But hey! If he manages to fix it in a year or two, who cares!!! **** dude, using your logic it doesn't matter if you sever the gas line in your house and blow it up to kill the spider in the corner...if you build a new one, what's the difference?

Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 09:33 PM
  #269
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 13,859
vCash: 500
I Feel Like I Have Read The Same Thing Over And Over In This Thread!!!!!!!

Prongo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 09:34 PM
  #270
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 36,857
vCash: 156
Yeah, pretty much:

"Mistakes don't matter!"

and

"Uh, yeah they do."

Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 09:37 PM
  #271
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,269
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
1) They've lost several players due to cap mismanagement and been hurt in the regular season several times because they've had to send players down to make room for returning players because Homer doesn't "do" cap management. On top of that Homer has gradually spent more and more time hurting our depth because of his cap management...like losing Gagne, switching out Asham for Shelley, and generally overpaying marginal players. Shelley's useless contract and Leighton's stupid contract alone is 2.6 million they could have used more intelligently...like on a real goalie at a time when we really needed one. Do you really think Randy Jone's dead cap space didn't affect our flexibility at the trade deadline in 2010? If we didn't have that lump of useless cap hit perhaps they could have gotten someone better than Kraijcek.
I never said he didn't make mistakes. He has, obviously. And Randy Jones is one of those mistakes, but do you really think that having someone other than Krajicek would have gotten us the cup that year?

Quote:
We recently had to trade the faces of our franchise largely because we were at the cap with no prospects and no freaking picks. The years of keeping everything close to the cap with no regard for the future and throwing draft picks away like candy had caught up to the organization and they were on the precipice. Only recently we had one of, if not the worst, prospect pool in the NHL because draft picks and assets had been cast away...many of them needlessly. And before you say "But he fixed it!" I say **** that, he shouldn't have put the team in that position to begin with. All those "small" things had added up and the team was close to a breaking point, because of his actions.
I haven't heard anyone from in the management say that is why they were traded. I have heard other things, but not that. I suppose when they say things about that, they are lying but when they talk about waiving Nodl they are telling the truth. Whatever supports your argument, I suppose.

Quote:
2) He has repeatedly screwed up simple contract stuff, he has repeatedly lost players on waivers, he repeatedly tosses around draft picks, he constantly overpays his depth players, etc etc. Pay attention, this has all been outlined thoroughly for years. I find it thoroughly insane that you think his lack of draft picks is a GOOD thing. "But we have Read now!" Sure, but if Homer wasn't dumb we could have Read, Harry Z, AND more draft picks. Again...why applaud someone for crawling out of their own sewage? Here's an idea: Don't jump into the sewage in the first place.
I am not saying it is a good thing, I am saying it hasn't hurt the team. Please explain to me how it has hurt the team. Do you really think we would still have Read, Z, etc if we had those draft picks? Probably not, because we would have drafted players. Which players, who knows. Maybe better ones. Maybe not.

Quote:
He's constantly shooting himself in the foot. In this case, he's got the gun aimed at the floor. It remains to be seen if he loses another toe or if he manages to miss.
I agree completely. Haven't disputed that from the beginning. This could be a terrible move. But it may work out. I'll decide tomorrow.

Quote:
But hey! If he manages to fix it in a year or two, who cares!!! **** dude, using your logic it doesn't matter if you sever the gas line in your house and blow it up to kill the spider in the corner...if you build a new one, what's the difference?
Yeah, because that is what I have been saying. I don't remember saying anything about fixing anything, only that there has been a lot more good than bad. I'm going to bed now. Hopefully we can continue this riveting discussion tomorrow.

DrinkFightFlyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 09:38 PM
  #272
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 109,487
vCash: 5500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Not if you want to get rid of a guy. If they wanted to keep Nodl, they would have sent down a different guy.
Because it wasn't about opening up a spot, it was about getting rid of a contract and not giving up a 2nd round pick again to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
If that is the case, which I haven't read anywhere, I still don't see it as a problem. We have a number of guys at roughly the same contract amount who are younger and of equal or the same skill. Why not get rid of a redundant player to potentially make room for another? Where is the problem with that?
I don't think you need to read, I think you need to think harder. Or simply read what everyone else is saying and realize they're right.

The Flyers gave Nodl a 2-year contract for a reason. No one on the Phantoms have shown they're ready to place Nodl, because Nodl is a 3rd line player (as much as some people don't want to acknowledge that). They're replaceable, but that doesn't mean you go around throwing these guys on waivers just for ***** and giggles.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 09:41 PM
  #273
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Wing or Retire!
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alexandria
Country: Liberia
Posts: 36,857
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I haven't heard anyone from in the management say that is why they were traded. I have heard other things, but not that. I suppose when they say things about that, they are lying but when they talk about waiving Nodl they are telling the truth. Whatever supports your argument, I suppose.
I'm also gonna be ducking out til tomorrow, Riff Trax calls. I do want to address this though: The organization HAS said that they were traded for hockey reasons. And I just outlined the most obvious reason: The team was quickly getting backed into a corner because of the complete lack of prospects in the pipe and the lack of draft picks to fix the situation.

Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 09:42 PM
  #274
lancer247
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,993
vCash: 500
As much fun as reading another 20 pages of Homer's cap mgmt in a Walker Re-entry thread sounds I have a question.

If Walker does clear waivers would you rather have him as your 6/7 dman or Shelley as your 12/13 forward?

They both have another year left on their contracts. Shelley has @ $600,000 less.

I think I would rather keep Walker up and waive or trade Shelley. I think Walker is more competent as a dman then Shelley as a forward (not saying much). One of the downsides is that pretty much means Gus will be stuck in the A for the regular season.

Hartnell - Giroux - Jagr
JVR - Briere - Voracek
Read - Schenn - Simmonds
Talbot - Coots - Rinaldo/Testito

Carle - Pronger
Mez - Kimo
Coburn - Walker/Llija


Last edited by lancer247: 12-01-2011 at 09:43 PM. Reason: removed wise arse remark
lancer247 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-01-2011, 09:47 PM
  #275
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 109,487
vCash: 5500
I'd keep Walker over Shelley.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:31 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.