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Old
12-02-2011, 08:12 AM
  #1
WeekendAtBernies
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Oilers-Flyers

I posted this one on the main board too.

An Edmonton fan came up with this and I thought it was pretty solid value, so I was curious what my fellow Flyer fans would think:

Just a quick caveat... this trade would occur late December-early January, after all Flyers defensemen are back healthy.

To Oilers:
Andrej Meszaros
Warm AHL Body w/ Minimal Cap hit (for contract cap purposes)

To
Andrej Meszaros

To
Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson
Theo Peckham
2012 2nd round pick

Thoughts? Comments?

To get by for this year, I would think we could pretty easily trade something small to CGY for Scott Hannan or something of the like.

For the future, we'd have some extra goodies to go after Suter or Weber in a trade or just some extra cap room to snag him as a UFA.

IDEAL Lines would be:
Hartnell-Giroux-Jagr
JVR-Briere-Schenn
Read-Talbot-Voracek
MPS-Couturier-Simmonds
Extras: Rinaldo, Harry Z, Shelley

Pronger-Carle
Timonen-Peckham
Coburn-Hannan

Thoughts?

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Old
12-02-2011, 08:14 AM
  #2
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I'd do it in a heartbeat. No way in hell EDM does though.

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Old
12-02-2011, 08:18 AM
  #3
Jack de la Hoya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
I posted this one on the main board too.

An Edmonton fan came up with this and I thought it was pretty solid value, so I was curious what my fellow Flyer fans would think:

Just a quick caveat... this trade would occur late December-early January, after all Flyers defensemen are back healthy.

To Oilers:
Andrej Meszaros
Warm AHL Body w/ Minimal Cap hit (for contract cap purposes)

To
Andrej Meszaros

To
Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson
Theo Peckham
2012 2nd round pick

Thoughts? Comments?

To get by for this year, I would think we could pretty easily trade something small to CGY for Scott Hannan or something of the like.

For the future, we'd have some extra goodies to go after Suter or Weber in a trade or just some extra cap room to snag him as a UFA.

IDEAL Lines would be:
Hartnell-Giroux-Jagr
JVR-Briere-Schenn
Read-Talbot-Voracek
MPS-Couturier-Simmonds
Extras: Rinaldo, Harry Z, Shelley

Pronger-Carle
Timonen-Peckham
Coburn-Hannan

Thoughts?
I have a hard time believing an Oilers fan came up with that, by MPS has been struggling. Still, that's an easy, easy yes--though I have no idea what Homer would do with four potential second round picks.

EDIT: I just found the original post in the now-closed Carle trade thread. I think you will find, with your new thread on the main board, that the poster is in a tiny minority of Oiler's fans.

Mez for PRV could conceivably be the basis of a deal, but judging by the discussion of Bobby Ryan, I would have thought you would be opposed to targeting a forward...


Last edited by Jack de la Hoya: 12-02-2011 at 08:25 AM.
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Old
12-02-2011, 08:19 AM
  #4
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I think while they're trading MPS and Peckham for scraps, they might as well throw in RNH or Taylor Hall.

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Old
12-02-2011, 08:23 AM
  #5
WeekendAtBernies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
I have a hard time believing an Oilers fan came up with that, by MPS has been struggling. Still, that's an easy, easy yes--though I have no idea what Homer would do with four potential second round picks.
I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link to other threads... isn't there a rule about that? Anyway, it was an Oilers fan, horseradish, who proposed it. He's pretty obviously an Oilers fan.

Mods, feel free to delete this post if I'm not allowed to talk about other posters by name and about things they said in other threads.

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Old
12-02-2011, 08:25 AM
  #6
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Are you serious?

Did you really believe someone who is posting such a crap??

Never ever in this world would anyone make this trade!

Maybe Mesz for a 2nd straight up
or Mesz for Peckham
or a 2nd for Peckham
or Bobrovsky + Meszaros + 2nd for MPS


But never ever only for Meszaros....



You just kidding me right?

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Old
12-02-2011, 08:29 AM
  #7
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Edm trading MPS plus 2nd plus AND Peckham for Mesz. Good laughs.


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Old
12-02-2011, 08:48 AM
  #8
WeekendAtBernies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmanrulez View Post
Are you serious?

Did you really believe someone who is posting such a crap??

Never ever in this world would anyone make this trade!

Maybe Mesz for a 2nd straight up
or Mesz for Peckham
or a 2nd for Peckham
or Bobrovsky + Meszaros + 2nd for MPS


But never ever only for Meszaros....



You just kidding me right?
Actually, Oilers fans seem quite receptive to the idea of Meszaros for MPS + 2nd or MPS + Peckham.

You appear to be incredibly biased against Meszaros or severely overrating MPS's value right now.

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Old
12-02-2011, 08:55 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
EDIT: I just found the original post in the now-closed Carle trade thread. I think you will find, with your new thread on the main board, that the poster is in a tiny minority of Oiler's fans.

Actually, Oilers fans seem receptive to Mesz for MPS + 2nd or Mesz for MPS + Peckham and I'd be receptive to either one.

Mez for PRV could conceivably be the basis of a deal, but judging by the discussion of Bobby Ryan, I would have thought you would be opposed to targeting a forward...

I was opposed to trading 2 forwards (one a 55-60 point winger w/ potential to add to this (he's only 22), the other the top prospect in the league (now that Larsson and RNH have established themselves) who holds Canada's World Junior scoring record ahead of Gretzky, Lindros, Tavares, Hodgson, etc. and tied Mario Lemieux and Simon Gagne for another one (goals in a game with 4))

For a 70 point winger w/ room to add more. I didn't think a 2 for 1 deal served our depth needs or our youth movement.

Now Meszaros for MPS + 2nd or MPS + Peckham? Yes please. Gives us MPS, makes 2 forwards expendable, gives us cap room so that a Ryan Suter trade or UFA signing is highly possible, etc.

Would be an excellent move for us IMO.
Bold^^

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Old
12-02-2011, 09:04 AM
  #10
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There's no way Edmonton even thinks about this.

Keep in mind we traded a 2nd round pick for Meszaros. Now, we're asking the Oilers for not only the same thing back (in the same draft), but a 20-year old former 1st round pick in his sophomore season, and a fairly decent depth defenseman. Meszaros has done nothing in the 100+ games he's played for us that would warrant such a substantial return.


In terms of potential coming back, it's somewhere between what we got for Mike Richards, and what we got for Jeff Carter. Meszaros isn't close to that same level.

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12-02-2011, 09:12 AM
  #11
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Speaking of Edmonton, I'd love to get Hartikainen for something like a fourth round pick.

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Old
12-02-2011, 09:44 AM
  #12
Roo Mad Bro
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OP has been making a fool of himself on the trade board.

And a big NO from Edm on this trade.


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Old
12-02-2011, 09:47 AM
  #13
WeekendAtBernies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
There's no way Edmonton even thinks about this.

Keep in mind we traded a 2nd round pick for Meszaros. Now, we're asking the Oilers for not only the same thing back (in the same draft), but a 20-year old former 1st round pick in his sophomore season, and a fairly decent depth defenseman. Meszaros has done nothing in the 100+ games he's played for us that would warrant such a substantial return.


In terms of potential coming back, it's somewhere between what we got for Mike Richards, and what we got for Jeff Carter. Meszaros isn't close to that same level.
You're way off base here.

Meszaros was the defenseman of the year for our team last year and 5th in the NHL in +/-. His value increase exponentially as a result of the season he had.

As far as calling MPS + 2nd + Peckham anywhere near the return we received for either of our stars, that's a joke.

Schenn > MPS (cannot even argue)
Simmonds > Peckham (again, cannot argue)
LA 2nd < (by a small margin) EDM 2nd

So um... yeah.

And I think we've all agreed pretty much that Jake + Sean > the richie return, so I'm not even gonna go there.

And a 3rd thing, many EDM fans are very receptive to making a deal around Mesz and MPS. Some are only willing to go MPS + 2nd + AHL defenseman/fringe prospect, some only MPS + 2nd, some only MPS + Peckham, but several are interested.

MPS is struggling right now. His value isn't "OMG!!!" high and the Oilers are stacked w/ wings & wing prospects. They can afford to lose him for a significant upgrade on D. Mesz is a significant upgrade.

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12-02-2011, 09:53 AM
  #14
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I very much doubt that the Oilers would go for this as well. MPS is having a terrible sophomore season so far, and it's true that they could lose some depth at wing and try to get better at d. If they decide to do so by dealing MPS however, I'm sure that they can get a better deal done than this.

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Old
12-02-2011, 09:58 AM
  #15
Roo Mad Bro
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Meszaros isn't that good. 4 million dollars for a guy who is as soft as **** paper.

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12-02-2011, 10:02 AM
  #16
WeekendAtBernies
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Originally Posted by Richards18 View Post
Meszaros isn't that good. 4 million dollars for a guy who is as soft as **** paper.
God this fan base is spoiled.

Soooo spoiled.

Try watching another NHL game or two or three or four and maybe you'll understand what I mean. He isn't soft @ all, but we love to downgrade our own while pumping others up, don't we?

If Schenn played 20 games w/ 1 point = bust, trade him immediately for a 2nd and a roster player.

If Meszaros has a bad 10 games, is a bum, overpaid, softer than dog poo, etc.

If MPS (or Bobby Ryan, or struggling player on any other team) has 1 point in 21 games, value not affected, team would be retarded to trade him for one of our terrible defensemen.

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Old
12-02-2011, 10:03 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
You're way off base here.

Meszaros was the defenseman of the year for our team last year and 5th in the NHL in +/-. His value increase exponentially as a result of the season he had.

As far as calling MPS + 2nd + Peckham anywhere near the return we received for either of our stars, that's a joke.

Schenn > MPS (cannot even argue)
Simmonds > Peckham (again, cannot argue)
LA 2nd < (by a small margin) EDM 2nd

So um... yeah.

And I think we've all agreed pretty much that Jake + Sean > the richie return, so I'm not even gonna go there.

And a 3rd thing, many EDM fans are very receptive to making a deal around Mesz and MPS. Some are only willing to go MPS + 2nd + AHL defenseman/fringe prospect, some only MPS + 2nd, some only MPS + Peckham, but several are interested.

MPS is struggling right now. His value isn't "OMG!!!" high and the Oilers are stacked w/ wings & wing prospects. They can afford to lose him for a significant upgrade on D. Mesz is a significant upgrade.
Two points:

1) I think your exagerating the extent of enthusiasm among the Edmonton fanbase. While one Oilers fan did originally propose the deal you've outline, it seems that most fans were not on board. From time to time, a team's fan will propose something objectionable to most of the others in the fanbase--you know, like that time, two days ago, when I suggested we move Schenn and Voracek for Bobby Ryan

2) While I would do the trade on value alone, we would be dealing from a position of age and weakness (D) for one of youth and strength (W / F). Again, its too much to pass up, but it might cause some problems later this year, if Pronger continues to struggle to get / stay healthy, or, worse, Kimmo suffers an injury.

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Old
12-02-2011, 10:24 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
You're way off base here.

Meszaros was the defenseman of the year for our team last year and 5th in the NHL in +/-. His value increase exponentially as a result of the season he had.

As far as calling MPS + 2nd + Peckham anywhere near the return we received for either of our stars, that's a joke.

Schenn > MPS (cannot even argue)
Simmonds > Peckham (again, cannot argue)
LA 2nd < (by a small margin) EDM 2nd

So um... yeah.

And I think we've all agreed pretty much that Jake + Sean > the richie return, so I'm not even gonna go there.

And a 3rd thing, many EDM fans are very receptive to making a deal around Mesz and MPS. Some are only willing to go MPS + 2nd + AHL defenseman/fringe prospect, some only MPS + 2nd, some only MPS + Peckham, but several are interested.

MPS is struggling right now. His value isn't "OMG!!!" high and the Oilers are stacked w/ wings & wing prospects. They can afford to lose him for a significant upgrade on D. Mesz is a significant upgrade.
Paajarvi would be sold low, they have no point in trading him. He shouldn't have really been brought over last year, this should be his rookie year.

Meszaros generally played weak competition last year, he was 3rd pair, unless Pronger was out. Our esteemed writers/voters never acknowledged that.

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Old
12-02-2011, 10:29 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Two points:

1) I think your exagerating the extent of enthusiasm among the Edmonton fanbase. While one Oilers fan did originally propose the deal you've outline, it seems that most fans were not on board. From time to time, a team's fan will propose something objectionable to most of the others in the fanbase--you know, like that time, two days ago, when I suggested we move Schenn and Voracek for Bobby Ryan

2) While I would do the trade on value alone, we would be dealing from a position of age and weakness (D) for one of youth and strength (W / F). Again, its too much to pass up, but it might cause some problems later this year, if Pronger continues to struggle to get / stay healthy, or, worse, Kimmo suffers an injury.
1. Very untrue. The most vocal people were AGAINST the trade and made their points known several times. In terms of actual EDM fans for vs. against some iteration of the trade MPS + 2nd or MPS + Peckham or MPS + 2nd + Peckham for Mesz:

5 For
6 Against

And some of the againsts seem to be perhaps at least considering it.

2. Agree, dealing from position of strength. But it gives us mega assets to make a trade for aging 2nd pair defenseman on last year of contract, which would be cheap to acquire. Leaves us in excellent shape to make a trade for / to sign as UFA Ryan Suter. Or if Suter is signed, perhaps to trade for Shea Weber.

Too good for the flyers to pass up IMO. And it makes sense for the Oilers too. Deal from position of strength to address greatest weakness. Acquire Younger defenseman to build around and make a staple of their top 4 and possibly make the playoffs this year and next year where it otherwise would've been a struggle (UFA crop of D-Men appears weak for a young team like EDM this offseason, so if they don't upgrade through trade, it'll likely need to come internally).

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12-02-2011, 10:30 AM
  #20
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This would be a steal, but how does this trade make any sense given the flyers roster?

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Old
12-02-2011, 10:33 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
God this fan base is spoiled.

Soooo spoiled.

Try watching another NHL game or two or three or four and maybe you'll understand what I mean. He isn't soft @ all, but we love to downgrade our own while pumping others up, don't we?

If Schenn played 20 games w/ 1 point = bust, trade him immediately for a 2nd and a roster player.

If Meszaros has a bad 10 games, is a bum, overpaid, softer than dog poo, etc.

If MPS (or Bobby Ryan, or struggling player on any other team) has 1 point in 21 games, value not affected, team would be retarded to trade him for one of our terrible defensemen.
SO TRUE!!! Couldn't have said it better. Folks on this board HATE our players and LOVE everyone elses. Guess the grass is always greener on the other side.

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Old
12-02-2011, 10:33 AM
  #22
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All i'm going to say is how good can your trade be if your defending it after every single post?

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12-02-2011, 10:37 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Paajarvi would be sold low, they have no point in trading him. He shouldn't have really been brought over last year, this should be his rookie year.

Meszaros generally played weak competition last year, he was 3rd pair, unless Pronger was out. Our esteemed writers/voters never acknowledged that.
Oh really?

Teams must've really enjoyed throwing that 3rd line out there last year instead of their 2nd cause Meszaros seemed to get a lot of TOI for a 3rd pairing guy:

Last year:
ES TOI/game ranked 3rd on the team
PK TOI/game ranked 4th on team
PP TOI/game ranked 3rd on team
Total TOI/game ranked 4th on team
Shifts/game ranked 2nd on team

10-11 playoffs:
2nd
3rd
3rd
1st
1st


This year:
4th
4th
4th
5th
3rd

Definitely 3rd pairing guy.

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12-02-2011, 10:40 AM
  #24
WeekendAtBernies
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All i'm going to say is how good can your trade be if your defending it after every single post?
I'm defending it there to the non-believers. The ones who agreed and were EDM fans have moved on. No need to further comment after you say "yes" or agree on a price. The others are the ones I'm arguing w/.

Like I said, 5 for to 6 against from EDM fans last time I checked, unless someone knew has commented.

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12-02-2011, 10:42 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
1. Very untrue. The most vocal people were AGAINST the trade and made their points known several times. In terms of actual EDM fans for vs. against some iteration of the trade MPS + 2nd or MPS + Peckham or MPS + 2nd + Peckham for Mesz:

5 For
6 Against

And some of the againsts seem to be perhaps at least considering it.

.
Eh, I think you need to check your math.

#2 - Hell no.
#4 - Mez maybe, but not for MPS
#5 - Yes--but either MPS + 2nd or Peckham +2 [the fact that he/she thinks those two are equivalent raises significant questions about their ability to properly evaluate the deal]
#8 - MPS + 2nd [Ottawa fan]
#9 - Yes [original Edm. poster who you took the deal from]
#11 - No on Mez for MPS
#13 - No on Mez for MPS
# 15 - No on Mez for MPS
#16 - No on MPS, maybe Omark
#19 - Maybe but it hurts the Flyers (Flyers fan)
#21 - Hell no, or insert other expletives
#23 - Maybe Omark + 3rd, not MPS
#27 - "downright retarded"
#28 - Yes
#32 - No...

If by "considering it," you mean considering some other deal for Mez, then you might be right in your analysis--but I think most Flyers fans would be opposed to dealing Mez for Omark. I know I would.

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