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12/01/11 | Senators vs Stars | Benn There, Done That | 8:30p.m. SNET-OTT, TVA

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Old
12-02-2011, 11:58 AM
  #826
Indy on the Road
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Old
12-02-2011, 12:00 PM
  #827
Xspyrit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v-man View Post
Yeah, he's only been one of their most consistent point producers over the last 7-8 games (not to mention the more than half dozen other great opportunities he set up that weren't realized), but if he can't clear a few bouncy pucks on bad ice, he's of no use in the NHL.
Again, I'll repeat myself I guess. I know Daugavins is a cool guy and seems to be a very good presence in the locker room, but let's face it... he's nothing special. He can give you some good ice-time on the bottom-6, a few point there and there and some quality PK time. But who would you rather have on your 3rd line? Guys like Condra, Greening, Regin, Foligno & Smith or Daugavins? Kaspars is there because there's holes in our top-6 so a guy like Foligno plays there until it is fixed. Sure, he can hold a spot on the 4th line for 2-3 years like Winchester, I wouldn't mind

People keep repeating that he litterally turned around the PK by himself, but lol Winchester came back from injury too. Also, the team (which had a BRAND NEW coaching staff) maybe had more time to work on that PK thing, don't you think? All the guys settled in (including goalies partially) and the PK improved. It was not going to last as horrible as it was, Daugavins or not. Zack Smith, Condra, Winchester, Michalek... a lot of good PKers on that team.

So, I see a lot of praise about Daugavins on this board and that he is defended at every occasion, but tell me why Winchester is talked like crap regulary? Winchester is a lot better along the boards and can win face-offs regulary with the best of them. He is also much better defensively. Like it or not, I don't see Daugavins being with the team long term. Wait for guys like Zibanejad, Silfverberg, Grant, Stone, Noesen... graduating in the next few years and I don't see where Daugavins will fit. Heck, I'm not even sure if we'll have much space for Foligno and Regin on the team.

LW1-Spezza-Michalek
Silfverberg-Zibanejad-RW2
LW3-CENT3-RW3
LW4-CENT4-Neil

Battle for top-6 spots : Puempel/Filatov/Petersson/Stone/Noesen/Butler/2012's 1st
Battle for bot-6 spots : Greening/Foligno/Condra/Smith/Da Costa/Regin/Grant... + some of the guys who didn't make the top-6

I don't see Daugavins beating all these guys for a spot... and I'm not even talking about Pageau, Prince, Kramer, O'Brien, Hoffman, Sorensen, others and new picks in 2012

Don't get too attached to Daugavins guys, just an advice.

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12-02-2011, 12:02 PM
  #828
v-man
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Our kill has also been a night and day improvement since he came in.
I was watching the Dallas feed, and laughed when one of their analysts said that they have the fifth worst PK in the league, so the Stars should concentrate on taking advantage of that. Then five minutes later they showed the differential between the first six games and the rest of the season (when Daug came up), and they've improved to over 85% in that time, which is top 5 in the league.

Xspyrit, no one is debating the future here, and yes, obviously Winchester and Smith deserve just as much credit for the turn around on PK. Daug may very well not be in their future plans, but that has nothing to do with the fact that he's done nothing but prove that he belongs in the NHL right now, which is something you don't seem willing to acknowledge. This third line checking role is new to him. He's been a play maker and scorer the rest of his hockey life. I've seen him make dekes and passes Filatov hasn't come close to exhibiting. A lot of people not familiar with his past downplay his abilities because they've only seen this new side of his game (or see his stats from when Clouston was screwing him with 4 mins. on the fourth line in Bingo), but given the chance, there's no reason he can't be a solid second line NHLer at some point. It's easy to name off every highly touted prospect as someone who could take his place immediately, but chances are, all but one or two of them will end up taking years in the AHL to get to that point.


Last edited by v-man: 12-02-2011 at 12:38 PM.
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Old
12-02-2011, 12:05 PM
  #829
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Da costa sucks

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Old
12-02-2011, 12:06 PM
  #830
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Okay? I was only able to catch the 3rd but shots were 35-32 for the Sens. And by the highlights, it seems the Sens had at least a dozen scoring chances... Raycroft was good, Anderson as well (except on the 3rd goal) and the Stars were clutch, in the same mold as the Sens have been doing to other teams all season.
The Sens directed less than 10 shots at the net in the second, and throughout the game they weren't getting to the rebounds or putting enough onto Raycroft. Shot count was inflated compared to play.

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The finally, we talk a lot about Anderson's stats but let's remember that the first 5-6 games were awful for all the team and Andy's number still suffer from it. What has been his number since? I'm sure not stellar but probably more on par with the rest of the league... It will take most of the season for those first few games to have less impact on his numbers.

I actually just did the numbers for his last 17 games :

10 W 4 L 1 OTL .905 SV% 3,03 GAA


Conclusion :

His first 5 games of the season still hurt his numbers badly. It will take much more time for those numbers to dilute. I'm confident that Anderson will have a huge stretch where he is hot, maybe he is a 2nd half goalie.
Those numbers are pretty crappy.


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lol this is based on? He has been a reliable back-up most of his career.
I talked about it afterwards. His performance with Ottawa three years ago doesn't matter. Right now he's barely qualified to be a backup in the NHL.

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You seem to have a fixation with goaltending. Sure, the Sens don't have the best goaltending in the NHL, and that's also because it only cost 4M$ per season for both goalies. Best goalies are oftenly those who were drafted and developped internally (Lundqvist, Rinne, Price, Brodeur, Fleury, Howard, Thomas, Backstrom, Ward, Kipprusoff, Quick, Schneider...)

Lehner is very young, we are taking our time with him (hence why both Anderson and Auld have been signed) and are extremly cautious, he is a big part of the Sens future. I'm happy we don't rely on him on a rebuilding season... Too much pressure for a young man at that position. I'd rather have him up here when the line-up has more experience and plays a better defensive game.
I don't understand this logic. We lose nothing by putting in Lehner. The whole point of developing him is to give him games in a positive environment. The team is scoring 3+ goals per game, and they're really only giving up as many scoring chances as most teams (notice how Ottawa forces as many turnovers and has as many chances every game as they give up? because that's how hockey works). He only has to play games. If he does well, he gets to keep playing in the NHL. If he does poorly, he goes back to Bingo. The only harm being done is to Alex Auld, and honestly I don't give two ***** about Auld.

I guess I'm just saying that you need to give the team a better chance to win than Anderson has been providing. They need to look at their other options, even if only on a temporary basis. Actually, unless Lehner becomes Roy, it needs to be temporary, because Anderson is the starter for next year too. He'll need to figure his stuff out.

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Old
12-02-2011, 12:18 PM
  #831
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We'll be spending 4 million on our goaltending for the next couple years...

Anderson may become an expensive back up....but Lehner may be a very cheap starter.

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12-02-2011, 12:53 PM
  #832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
We'll be spending 4 million on our goaltending for the next couple years...

Anderson may become an expensive back up....but Lehner may be a very cheap starter.
Goaltenders are like the weather, unpredictable.

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Old
12-02-2011, 01:49 PM
  #833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caje View Post
Last game everyone was praising Phillips. Hilarious how fast opinions change on these boards.
Or maybe: 1- it wasn't the same people who praised him in the game before, and 2- Phillips had a good game followed with a bad one (although I don't necessarily think he had a bad game last night)?

Really, it's ok to exercise critical judgment. Not every player is perfect every game, and it's interesting to look at who did well and who didn't, and why.

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Originally Posted by HappyGilmour View Post
Rondra had an amazing goal.
But... his goal didn't come late in the game! Where did Rondra's elite stamina go?

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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
Concerning the line-up, I want to see :

Michalek-Spezza-Butler
Filatov-Foligno-Alfredsson
Greening-Smith-Condra
Daugavins-Winchester-Neil
Konopka

This line-up makes the most sense and the best possible results would come out of it IMO. I don't want to see Greening in the top-6 anymore, he lacks skill and brings down the playmaking on his line. 3rd line is where he belongs.
I'd go a little further and switch Daugy and Greening in your proposed line-up. That third line is going great, so I would be hesitant to break it up. Also, a 4th line made up of Greening-Winch-Neil would be fearsome and could deserve as many minutes as the third line.

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Old
12-02-2011, 01:59 PM
  #834
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This looks sweet!!!!!!!!

Michalek - Spezza - Filatov

Foligno - Regin - Alfredsson

Daugavins - Smith - Condra

Greening - Winchister/Konopka - Neil

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Old
12-02-2011, 02:13 PM
  #835
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After calling now he played 4th game in 4 days and after Bortuzzo hit to the head... I saw it it was brutal hit in speed to the board he stayed on the ice some time.
The second game against Jets... only 3:30 and the end... hit by Fehr and symptoms of concussion he already returned in the game with Dallas.. any rest.

His first call... he played 3th game in three days notyour guys after Sestito hit.

Do you think he is Robocop? I am shocked he even played. I saw his great hockey vision in CBJ and great hockey IQ here but you get something another in Sens... hitting, better checking and he is in the front of the net. He changed his play again, first he had to change his play for Hitch, than Arniel, than now. It is need a time... how good played your players from MacLean starting? They played bad many games and later they were better. He needs a time but I am sure he will be minimum very good because he is good with psyche here.

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12-02-2011, 02:21 PM
  #836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrEasy View Post
Or maybe: 1- it wasn't the same people who praised him in the game before, and 2- Phillips had a good game followed with a bad one (although I don't necessarily think he had a bad game last night)?

Really, it's ok to exercise critical judgment. Not every player is perfect every game, and it's interesting to look at who did well and who didn't, and why.
I don't disagree that he had a good game then a bad one, but going from "Phillips is back in top form" to "He's not a top 4 defenceman anymore" is not "exercising critical judgment". It's making sweeping generalizations based on single games. It may not be the same people, but that's the way the board swings.

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12-02-2011, 02:30 PM
  #837
DrEasy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caje View Post
I don't disagree that he had a good game then a bad one, but going from "Phillips is back in top form" to "He's not a top 4 defenceman anymore" is not "exercising critical judgment". It's making sweeping generalizations based on single games. It may not be the same people, but that's the way the board swings.
Yes, that's how it appears, but it's usually not the same people changing their minds. In this case, when Phillips has a good game, you'll have Phillips fans pointing it out, and when he has a bad game, his detractors will show up. There are of course exceptions: I'm really not a Phillips fan, yet I pointed out that he had a monster game against the Jets.

People really don't change their mind easily.

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Old
12-02-2011, 09:13 PM
  #838
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Phillips had increased ice time against Dallas that he may not be able to handle anymore.With Kuba hurt his ice time goes up. The play in question he looked really tired but I'm not sure if that was from the increased ice time or being caught at the end of a shift. To me, we played well until the last 3 minutes of the game.

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Old
12-02-2011, 09:17 PM
  #839
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Originally Posted by topshelfie View Post
Phillips had increased ice time against Dallas that he may not be able to handle anymore.With Kuba hurt his ice time goes up. The play in question he looked really tired but I'm not sure if that was from the increased ice time or being caught at the end of a shift. To me, we played well until the last 3 minutes of the game.
It was end of the shift. Karlsson was dead, otherwise Philly wouldn't have had to cover the whole slot. Phillips had the right line of thought, he just didn't cover the passing lane well enough and the Stars forward did a good job exploiting that gap in coverage.

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Old
12-03-2011, 10:41 AM
  #840
Xspyrit
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Originally Posted by v-man View Post
Xspyrit, no one is debating the future here, and yes, obviously Winchester and Smith deserve just as much credit for the turn around on PK. Daug may very well not be in their future plans, but that has nothing to do with the fact that he's done nothing but prove that he belongs in the NHL right now, which is something you don't seem willing to acknowledge. This third line checking role is new to him. He's been a play maker and scorer the rest of his hockey life. I've seen him make dekes and passes Filatov hasn't come close to exhibiting. A lot of people not familiar with his past downplay his abilities because they've only seen this new side of his game (or see his stats from when Clouston was screwing him with 4 mins. on the fourth line in Bingo), but given the chance, there's no reason he can't be a solid second line NHLer at some point. It's easy to name off every highly touted prospect as someone who could take his place immediately, but chances are, all but one or two of them will end up taking years in the AHL to get to that point.
Please tell me where did you get that assumption? He's doing a good job right now on the bottom-6 and PK, but personally I think we will develop better players so he's here as a stop gap. That's all. I'm not convinced he would be on most NHL teams lineups. I see Daugavins the same way as I see guys like Konopka and Winchester... depht players. What helps him actually is that he has existing chemistry with Smith and Condra, who are awesome bottom-6 players. Let's call a spade a spade please. I like Daugavins personality too, but I'm talking about NHL hockey ability here. Daugavins is not a special talent, he is like the Brian Lee of forwards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jordan7hm View Post
The Sens directed less than 10 shots at the net in the second, and throughout the game they weren't getting to the rebounds or putting enough onto Raycroft. Shot count was inflated compared to play.
I don't get it... You're telling me 35 shots isn't 35 shots? So 2 + 2 doesn't equal 4?

I've watched the 3rd and saw the highlights on NHL.com. Apparently, Alfie had a crossbar too. The Sens created scoring chances, just didn't convert more than the Stars did, hence why they have lost 3-2.

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Those numbers are pretty crappy.
It's not crappy, it's average/mediocre. Crappy is the numbers he had in the first 5 games. What's important is the improvement, I'm confident he will continue to improve those numbers all season, particulary since the team will continue to gain experience (both players and the system they play in).

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I talked about it afterwards. His performance with Ottawa three years ago doesn't matter. Right now he's barely qualified to be a backup in the NHL.
lol talk about small sample size... Check his game log dude...

http://espn.go.com/nhl/player/gamelo...1165/alex-auld

Played good vs Washington, Vancouver, Pittsburgh
1 bad game against Philly
Gave up 2 goals vs Toronto and 3 against Buffalo in relief of Anderson.

Played ok, but he can do better as well. Notice that his numbers were crappy too before the team's turnaround after the Philly game. His SV% was .830 and has been 0.905 since (which is average, not crappy).


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I don't understand this logic. We lose nothing by putting in Lehner. The whole point of developing him is to give him games in a positive environment. The team is scoring 3+ goals per game, and they're really only giving up as many scoring chances as most teams (notice how Ottawa forces as many turnovers and has as many chances every game as they give up? because that's how hockey works). He only has to play games. If he does well, he gets to keep playing in the NHL. If he does poorly, he goes back to Bingo. The only harm being done is to Alex Auld, and honestly I don't give two ***** about Auld.
Patience, Lehner's time is about to come. It's very difficult to develop goalies, you have to be cautious and really take your time. Sens are doing the right thing, people who have been following the NHL for a long time will all tell you the same.

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I guess I'm just saying that you need to give the team a better chance to win than Anderson has been providing. They need to look at their other options, even if only on a temporary basis. Actually, unless Lehner becomes Roy, it needs to be temporary, because Anderson is the starter for next year too. He'll need to figure his stuff out.
Let's not forget the purpose of this season. This team is not trying to win the Presidents Trophy or the Stanley Cup. It's a development year, so many players need to gain experience. If they make the playoffs, it's a heck of an accomplishement (and every playoff game they win is even better), but that's all. We are trying to build a perennial contender (which is easier said than done), not putting all our eggs in one basket and trying to win now when the team is not built like it. We would have signed more UFAs if that was the case.

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