HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Matt Walker clears re-entry waivers

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-02-2011, 06:18 PM
  #376
Sawdalite
AbleWasIEreISawLupul
 
Sawdalite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Girouxsalem
Posts: 5,353
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
To summarize: would C.S. Lewis have put Walker on recall waivers?
No... he would have had Screwtape talk Homer into doing it for him.

Sawdalite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 06:21 PM
  #377
1865
Registered User
 
1865's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chester, UK
Country: England
Posts: 9,175
vCash: 50
How many times does a GM have to do seemingly-boneheaded moves that turn out OK before people begin to trust him? Everything he does he gets a huge amount of grief from this forum with people mocking his judgement and decision making, but 9/10 times? It all works out OK and we continue to be one of the better sides in the entire league.

There's at least 20 teams in this league who'd kill for a GM like Homer, when will we start to appreciate him?

1865 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 06:33 PM
  #378
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 37,460
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
How many times does a GM have to do seemingly-boneheaded moves that turn out OK before people begin to trust him? Everything he does he gets a huge amount of grief from this forum with people mocking his judgement and decision making, but 9/10 times? It all works out OK and we continue to be one of the better sides in the entire league.

There's at least 20 teams in this league who'd kill for a GM like Homer, when will we start to appreciate him?
You've quickly forgotten the very real hockey-related reasons for the trades this offseason. The impending crisis caused by having no NHL-level prospects and no draft picks to fix it with; the impending crisis caused by Paul Holmgren's asset and cap management.

It isn't like we're imagining or inventing reasons to criticize him. It's not like we have any personal grudge. It's that he has given us a legion of valid reasons to criticize him.

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
Beef Invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 06:41 PM
  #379
Krishna
Registered User
 
Krishna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Canada
Posts: 82,048
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
How many times does a GM have to do seemingly-boneheaded moves that turn out OK before people begin to trust him? Everything he does he gets a huge amount of grief from this forum with people mocking his judgement and decision making, but 9/10 times? It all works out OK and we continue to be one of the better sides in the entire league.

There's at least 20 teams in this league who'd kill for a GM like Homer, when will we start to appreciate him?
When he wins a cup.

Krishna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 06:52 PM
  #380
1865
Registered User
 
1865's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chester, UK
Country: England
Posts: 9,175
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
You've quickly forgotten the very real hockey-related reasons for the trades this offseason. The impending crisis caused by having no NHL-level prospects and no draft picks to fix it with; the impending crisis caused by Paul Holmgren's asset and cap management.

It isn't like we're imagining or inventing reasons to criticize him. It's not like we have any personal grudge. It's that he has given us a legion of valid reasons to criticize him.
What crisis? Most of our core were locked up long term, a lot of them were young, we had players like Read in the wings and we were in a reasonably good position. Sure we were close to the cap but then we always are.

Regardless, we'll work with the hypothesis that we were careering towards a crisis. Wouldn't you say that we've successfully avoided it? We've re-stocked the cupboard, got a goalie and are continuing along at our typical pace. Who gets the credit for that? Certainly not Homer, he gets bluster instead for risking (I use that term lightly) less than 2% of the total cap space on something that worked out fine.

1865 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 07:03 PM
  #381
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 37,460
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
What crisis? Most of our core were locked up long term, a lot of them were young, we had players like Read in the wings and we were in a reasonably good position. Sure we were close to the cap but then we always are.

Regardless, we'll work with the hypothesis that we were careering towards a crisis. Wouldn't you say that we've successfully avoided it? We've re-stocked the cupboard, got a goalie and are continuing along at our typical pace. Who gets the credit for that? Certainly not Homer, he gets bluster instead for risking (I use that term lightly) less than 2% of the total cap space on something that worked out fine.
Uh, we were at the cap. Most teams develop their own depth players. In the coming years we would have had to go to FA to fill out the rest of team besides the core, unless we wanted to use AHL scraps. We had no draft picks to resolve the problem. Our situation was untenable, and Holmgren had to take dramatic steps to fix the problems he had created.

With the gifting of Nodl to Carolina and his risk of gifting Walker to someone else at the cost of cap space, it's clear that he's learned nothing at all. But I'm sure his supporters will gladly plug their fingers into his ears and ignore the writing on the wall as he spends the next few years giving away more and more draft picks and prospects (inevitably, because of his perennial cap issues) until the team is on the precipice again and we get to see another surprise rebuild.

Beef Invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 07:17 PM
  #382
Alchemy
Philadelphia Flyers
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 12,470
vCash: 500
Teams that are at the cap.

Flyers
Kings
Capitals
Penguins
Sabres
Leafs
Canucks
Candiens
Rangers

Two other contenders have less then 2,000,000 in cap space.


You pay to be competitive. People are worried about the simplest things. Andreas Nodl isn't important to the big scheme of things. We have a good forward corps and now we will be looking to build on the defense. As contracts expire this team will have cap space to work with. If you are a fan of cap space then go be a fan of teams who spend just to make the cap floor every year. Have fun.

Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 07:28 PM
  #383
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 109,917
vCash: 5792
I feel the need to comment on the Butterfly Effect again (BSH did something on this as well, I'm biting off their example).

Here is just an example of how just a wee bit of cap space can dramatically affect the team:

-The Flyers traded for Kris Versteeg
-Ian Laperriere had to be put on LTIR, since the Flyers were over the cap
-They had to take bonus overages into this season as a result.
-Ed Snider blows a gasket after the playoff goaltending **** show.
-Leading scorer and team captain are dealt (if you're assuming these are hockey moves).
-Goaltender is signed to an insane contract.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 07:31 PM
  #384
Damaged Goods
Registered User
 
Damaged Goods's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,026
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
I feel the need to comment on the Butterfly Effect again (BSH did something on this as well, I'm biting off their example).

Here is just an example of how just a wee bit of cap space can dramatically affect the team:

-The Flyers traded for Kris Versteeg
-Ian Laperriere had to be put on LTIR, since the Flyers were over the cap
-They had to take bonus overages into this season as a result.
-Ed Snider blows a gasket after the playoff goaltending **** show.
-Leading scorer and team captain are dealt (if you're assuming these are hockey moves).
-Goaltender is signed to an insane contract.

I'm not seeing the causal links here.

Damaged Goods is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 07:34 PM
  #385
Sawdalite
AbleWasIEreISawLupul
 
Sawdalite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Girouxsalem
Posts: 5,353
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
You've quickly forgotten the very real hockey-related reasons for the trades this offseason.
Not sure what you mean with this... Homer retooled the team while completely changing the culture going forward while allowing more flexibility with releasing over $10M each season for the next dozen or so years... allowing he team to evolve more than it would have with the two Offensive players anchoring the Forwards through good seasons and probably past the lean years. He also strengthened greatly the Goaltending by most everybody's judgement by trading for and signing a veteran after going out and signing a top young FA with a great upside... He also brought in top level prospects through trades and FA signing on all levels and all the while improved the character with excellent and proven Room guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The impending crisis caused by having no NHL-level prospects and no draft picks to fix it with;
The prospects are here and contributing... Read, Couturier, Schenn, and young players with experience such as Simmonds and Voracek... Bobrovsky... Gus... and role players such as Rinaldo... While beefing up the Farm with future talent and adding some draft picks.

I see no crisis... I see some very good to great young talent that will serve the Flyers for many years... supplementing the old heads such as Giroux and JvR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
the impending crisis caused by Paul Holmgren's asset and cap management.
Homer has been a Houdini in his escaping what some perceive as doom while being a Walenda as he walks the tightrope with the Cap... It is not like he is alone in this in the NHL -- Look at NJ last season for but one example -- and has in fact taken a club maxed out last season and revamped it while teetering on the edge... He looks like he is in trouble, yet escapes and keeps on icing a quality team. His assets are really in great shape with at least three super quality rookies contributing and some more mixing is with the veterans... the spread of young, middle and older is quite good in fact... on both sides of the puck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
It isn't like we're imagining or inventing reasons to criticize him. It's not like we have any personal grudge. It's that he has given us a legion of valid reasons to criticize him.
Some due seem to have a grudge while others seem to love to ***** and moan... and none of us has the inside facts that Homer has to both deal with and use to his benefit, yet we all have the answers... none of which we will be called on if we are wrong. The team is in real good shape going forward with young talent that other GMs would kill for.

Sawdalite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 07:39 PM
  #386
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,402
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Uh, we were at the cap. Most teams develop their own depth players. In the coming years we would have had to go to FA to fill out the rest of team besides the core, unless we wanted to use AHL scraps. We had no draft picks to resolve the problem. Our situation was untenable, and Holmgren had to take dramatic steps to fix the problems he had created.

With the gifting of Nodl to Carolina and his risk of gifting Walker to someone else at the cost of cap space, it's clear that he's learned nothing at all. But I'm sure his supporters will gladly plug their fingers into his ears and ignore the writing on the wall as he spends the next few years giving away more and more draft picks and prospects (inevitably, because of his perennial cap issues) until the team is on the precipice again and we get to see another surprise rebuild.
Just out of curiosity here, without getting into another titillating debate, if, hypothetically, the Flyers win a Cup this year and next, will Homer be a good GM then? Or will it be luck? Will his bad moves (that lead to a Cup in this hypothetical) be forgiven?

DrinkFightFlyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 08:26 PM
  #387
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 109,917
vCash: 5792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
I'm not seeing the causal links here.
http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...tterfly-effect

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 08:29 PM
  #388
nuclear reactor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 506
vCash: 500
Hilarity once again ensues as all the expert GMs around here are proven wrong. Meanwhile, enjoy watching one of the most talented teams in the league play tonight put together by sheer luck, I'm sure. But be sure to come back tomorrow morning and complain some more about Jody Shelley or Pat Maroon.

nuclear reactor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 08:33 PM
  #389
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,402
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
My favorite part about this article is that all three things that the author says can't happen have happened.

Quote:
Who cares about acquiring Jason Bacashuihua? Well, now the team is at the 50 contract limit and needs Sean Couturier's contract to slide, so he can't make the team no matter how good he looks in camp.

Who cares that Talbot's contract has a cap hit that's perhaps $200k-300k too high? Well, the team is now so close to the cap that they can't afford to have Matt Read on the roster no matter how good he looks in camp.

Who cares that Lilja's tiny contract has a second year? Well, if the top 5 all return next year, it means that Kevin Marshall and Erik Gustafsson can't make it to the NHL this year or next unless the Flyers dump Bartulis, since Lilja's deal is 35+ and will count against the cap no matter what.

DrinkFightFlyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 08:40 PM
  #390
Sawdalite
AbleWasIEreISawLupul
 
Sawdalite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Girouxsalem
Posts: 5,353
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Uh, we were at the cap. Most teams develop their own depth players. In the coming years we would have had to go to FA to fill out the rest of team besides the core, unless we wanted to use AHL scraps. We had no draft picks to resolve the problem. Our situation was untenable, and Holmgren had to take dramatic steps to fix the problems he had created.

With the gifting of Nodl to Carolina and his risk of gifting Walker to someone else at the cost of cap space, it's clear that he's learned nothing at all. But I'm sure his supporters will gladly plug their fingers into his ears and ignore the writing on the wall as he spends the next few years giving away more and more draft picks and prospects (inevitably, because of his perennial cap issues) until the team is on the precipice again and we get to see another surprise rebuild.
While his detractors run around claiming the sky is falling, the sky is falling.



We don't know if Homer lost Nodl begrudgingly... or put him out there to be grabbed up as he knew he would be... losing a contract and opening up a contract slot for a sudden deal. Homer's words were afterwards were that he was "happy that he get a chance to work up on a team... he wasn't able to with the Flyers for one or another" (paraphrased)... Nodl was at that point a roadblock for other younger players; the writing was on the wall. He was claimed up and there is a spot for another contract... one that can be filled by an up and comer, or a player who can help now.

I would rather have a GM that is willing to cut bait when the time is right, rather than a GM that is stubborn and will go down to his death supporting a team that is not going in the right course. To trade Richards and Carter before their No Trade Contracts kick in and drastically change the course of this team when he felt that they were not the players that will take them to the Cup... and will not be the 'culture' leaders the Flyers should have... was a gutty move IMO.

And once again I must say that we do no have the inside NHL and Organization information that Homer has at his command... We don't know who, if anyone, he may be protecting, and what directives he may be working under... We have no idea what his ultimate plans are, and what he may not want to tip off the other GMs about... He has learned well from Clarke, who learned well from Allen, that you have to keep things under you hat and look people in the and lie when needed with a straight face... and a times with a smirk or wink.

To me the result is all that counts... the only thing that counts. Until they win another Cup they will have failed... but I'd rather they fail with an honest and good shot than to flop around and go nowhere like in the Jay Snider/Russ Farwell years where the Flyers missed the Playoff five straight seasons and stayed just bad enough to do so while not bad enough to grab a superstar selection.

Sawdalite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 08:55 PM
  #391
chimrichalds18
the key
 
chimrichalds18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,769
vCash: 500
I feel like a good way to talk about this whole situation--if it hasn't been brought up--is illegal hits. In this case, Holmgren's risks are like an illegal shot to the head. Holmgren recalls Matt Walker. Maybe a team claims him (suspension), maybe he makes it through (no suspension).

The claim itself/the ruling is a subjective thing, but it doesn't change the fact that the decision to recall Walker/hit the guy in the head is stupid.

I mean, for the people defending Holmgren--and this goes back to Beef's concrete headbutting comment--are you the people who only want to punish players for dirty hits if the victim winds up injured? I'm not saying that Holmgren's actions should be looked upon as 'illegal,' it's all just an analogy. I don't even hate Holmgren, but the worship he gets as all-knowing is hilarious. I think it's been pretty clear that the guy has a vague idea of what he wants but does everything by the seat of his pants.

chimrichalds18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 08:56 PM
  #392
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 37,460
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Just out of curiosity here, without getting into another titillating debate, if, hypothetically, the Flyers win a Cup this year and next, will Homer be a good GM then? Or will it be luck? Will his bad moves (that lead to a Cup in this hypothetical) be forgiven?
No, they won't be forgiven. Bad moves are still bad moves.

As for spending to the cap...it's not how much you spend, but how you spend it. Holmgren often does that unwisely. Thankfully, he is nowhere near the worst in that department.

Beef Invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 08:58 PM
  #393
mirimon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Wrong Town
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
My favorite part about this article is that all three things that the author says can't happen have happened.
They went too far by saying it was impossible, but you realize we had to tuck a pick to go with Legein and send him to the Kings, to allow us to keep Couturier, right?

Now, you can say that it was just a sixth rounder and that won't mean anything in the long run, and you would most likely be right. Or, we could have found our own Datsyuk (or at least another Rinaldo). Sure, it's just a minor inconvenience, but if it happens often enough it will turn into a bigger problem.

I don't think Holmgren is a terrible GM, I don't think he needs to be fired, but he does make mistakes that are fairly easily avoidable at times.

As for the Lilja thing... I'm not sure what your point is. Bartulis is in the AHL, and the only reason Bourdon and Marshall is up on the roster is a number of injuries to the dmen. If we re-sign Carle over the summer (or add some other ufa d) it only leaves one more spot (assuming we go with 7 d as usual) since Lilja will count against the cap even if he's sent down... unless Homer pays to get rid of him of course...

mirimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 09:04 PM
  #394
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,402
vCash: 155
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
No, they won't be forgiven. Bad moves are still bad moves.

As for spending to the cap...it's not how much you spend, but how you spend it. Holmgren often does that unwisely. Thankfully, he is nowhere near the worst in that department.
Ok, at least you're consistent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
They went too far by saying it was impossible, but you realize we had to tuck a pick to go with Legein and send him to the Kings, to allow us to keep Couturier, right?

Now, you can say that it was just a sixth rounder and that won't mean anything in the long run, and you would most likely be right. Or, we could have found our own Datsyuk (or at least another Rinaldo). Sure, it's just a minor inconvenience, but if it happens often enough it will turn into a bigger problem.

I don't think Holmgren is a terrible GM, I don't think he needs to be fired, but he does make mistakes that are fairly easily avoidable at times.

As for the Lilja thing... I'm not sure what your point is. Bartulis is in the AHL, and the only reason Bourdon and Marshall is up on the roster is a number of injuries to the dmen. If we re-sign Carle over the summer (or add some other ufa d) it only leaves one more spot (assuming we go with 7 d as usual) since Lilja will count against the cap even if he's sent down... unless Homer pays to get rid of him of course...
I was just pointing out that the three things they said could not possibly happen all happened. Not trying to get into the Homer discussion again, just read the past 400 pages.

EDIT: But I will just add this in there. For all the picks that Homer has "given away," he has also got a number of picks back. But they don't count, right? Terrible idea to trade picks away. Worthless when he gets them back.

DrinkFightFlyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 09:06 PM
  #395
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 37,460
vCash: 156
Oh, has there been some Holmgren discussion in this thread?

Beef Invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 09:13 PM
  #396
Sawdalite
AbleWasIEreISawLupul
 
Sawdalite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Girouxsalem
Posts: 5,353
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
I feel like a good way to talk about this whole situation--if it hasn't been brought up--is illegal hits. In this case, Holmgren's risks are like an illegal shot to the head. Holmgren recalls Matt Walker. Maybe a team claims him (suspension), maybe he makes it through (no suspension).

The claim itself/the ruling is a subjective thing, but it doesn't change the fact that the decision to recall Walker/hit the guy in the head is stupid.

I mean, for the people defending Holmgren--and this goes back to Beef's concrete headbutting comment--are you the people who only want to punish players for dirty hits if the victim winds up injured? I'm not saying that Holmgren's actions should be looked upon as 'illegal,' it's all just an analogy. I don't even hate Holmgren, but the worship he gets as all-knowing is hilarious. I think it's been pretty clear that the guy has a vague idea of what he wants but does everything by the seat of his pants.
How can we argue when the judge, jury and executioner has already found that his move was wrong, no matter how it ended up? You state as a fact that it was "dumb"; no room for debate... and this is coming from someone who claims the supporters are "all-knowing". Can you see a tinge of hypocrisy in that at all?

Sawdalite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 09:21 PM
  #397
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 37,460
vCash: 156
Saying the Walker move is only bad if he had been claimed is like saying stealing is only illegal if you get caught.

Beef Invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 09:28 PM
  #398
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 109,917
vCash: 5792
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
My favorite part about this article is that all three things that the author says can't happen have happened.
I believe it was before Brayden Schenn's contract bonuses were known.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 09:34 PM
  #399
ELab2
Registered User
 
ELab2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Atlantic City
Country: United States
Posts: 5,348
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
I believe it was before Brayden Schenn's contract bonuses were known.
He didn't sign a new contract with the Flyers, which means the writer didn't do his research at all or couldn't find out and decided to write the article knowing he was missing information. Not much of a defense.

ELab2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 09:41 PM
  #400
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 109,917
vCash: 5792
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
He didn't sign a new contract with the Flyers, which means the writer didn't do his research at all or couldn't find out and decided to write the article knowing he was missing information. Not much of a defense.
Nobody had that information. Not even Capgeek knew it, and he gets his information directly from the league. Everybody was writing their lineups all summer without that information, so hopefully you show scorn to the writers who actually get paid.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:50 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.