HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Matt Walker clears re-entry waivers

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-02-2011, 10:46 PM
  #401
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,967
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
I believe it was before Brayden Schenn's contract bonuses were known.
Regardless, I was just pointing out that none of the things came true. Not placing blame on anyone or anything like that. I just thought it was funny.

Also: YOU ARE BLINDLY DEFENDING THIS GUY FOR SOME REASON AND ARE WRONG FOR DOING SO! JUST KEEP MAKING EXCUSES TO PROTECT HIM FOR SOME REASON!

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 10:47 PM
  #402
ELab2
Registered User
 
ELab2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Atlantic City
Country: United States
Posts: 5,348
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Nobody had that information. Not even Capgeek knew it, and he gets his information directly from the league. Everybody was writing their lineups all summer without that information, so hopefully you show scorn to the writers who actually get paid.
I do, I think they are largely horrendous. You shouldn't be writing about cap situations without knowing the necessary specifics of every players' contract. And if you don't know at least inform the reader that the information is incomplete.

ELab2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 10:58 PM
  #403
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 112,352
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
I do, I think they are largely horrendous. You shouldn't be writing about cap situations without knowing the necessary specifics of every players' contract. And if you don't know at least inform the reader that the information is incomplete.
You have to write pre-season columns on the cap situation and usually project a cap-compliant write up. You can't not do it just because you don't know that you weren't told everything.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Regardless, I was just pointing out that none of the things came true. Not placing blame on anyone or anything like that. I just thought it was funny.
He was more misguided than anything, not wrong.

The Flyers had to sign Cash because they didn't have any goaltenders on two-way contracts that were exempt from re-entry waivers. What they didn't need was Johan Backlund to have a one-way year in his contract when it was clear that he was not going to be an NHL goaltender.

Couturier, given his ice time, should not be on the team anyways. He isn't giving you at 18 what he can at 21 at a lower cap number. And, yes it is a big deal, because it's a year where Schenn is going to be at the 3.11 number.

And yes, Bartulis was waived and buried in the minors. He should be playing over Marshall, Bourdon, and Walker, but is not because the Flyers couldn't see a month ahead of time to know they couldn't afford to keep Walker.


But single them out, when they've called everything else that's been done in error. This is a different topic though

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 10:59 PM
  #404
Sawdalite
AbleWasIEreISawLupul
 
Sawdalite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Girouxsalem
Posts: 5,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Saying the Walker move is only bad if he had been claimed is like saying stealing is only illegal if you get caught.
Again, you are equating the waiving to a crime... judge, jury and executioner... Who are you to say that it was wrong? It was legal according to the CBA... unlike stealing which is illegal, or speeding which is illegal... He made a legal move and was rewarded for it.

This, my friend, is an example of why some of us ask how can Homer ever do anything right in the eyes of some... Not only is he fried for moves hat are proven wrong, but he is raked over he coals for things that some people deem to be wrong without being demonstrated as being so... Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't (do anything wrong)... He is in the position to take pot shots against him without any chance of redemption, short of winning a Cup... and even then I'm sure he will be taken to task for whatever he's done.

He did no crime and his guess that Walker would not be claimed and lost with half his Cap hit was correct... The people who cried the sky was falling were proven incorrect... Had Homer made an illegal move, such as steal or speed, it would be okay to say that wrong is wrong... just as it is right to now say, right is right. The Cap is still where it was in regards to dead space and the Flyers have the use of an experienced D-man with size and thump... Where is Homer wrong on THIS move?

It is so easy pontificating perceived rights and wrongs when facts are not in play.


Last edited by Sawdalite: 12-02-2011 at 11:06 PM.
Sawdalite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 11:01 PM
  #405
Sawdalite
AbleWasIEreISawLupul
 
Sawdalite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Girouxsalem
Posts: 5,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Nobody had that information. Not even Capgeek knew it, and he gets his information directly from the league. Everybody was writing their lineups all summer without that information, so hopefully you show scorn to the writers who actually get paid.
Dumb old Homer and his boys knew it.

Sawdalite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 11:02 PM
  #406
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beef Runner
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 41,726
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Again, you are equating the waiving to a crime... judge, jury and executioner... Who are you to say that it was wrong? It was legal according to the CBA... unlike stealing which is illegal, or speeding which is illegal... He made a legal move and was rewarded for it.

This, my friend, is an example of why some of us ask how can Homer ever do anything right in the eyes of some... Not only is he fried for moves hat are proven wrong, but he is raked over he coals for things that some people deem to be wrong without being demonstrated as being so... Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't (do anything wrong)... He is in the position to take pot shots against him without any chance of redemption, short of winning a Cup... and even then I'm sure he will be taken to task for whatever he's done.

He did not crime and his guess that Walker would not be claimed and lost with half his Cap hit was correct... The people who cried the sky was falling were proven incorrect... Had Homer made an illegal move, such as steal or speed, it would be okay to say that wrong is wrong... just as it is right to now say, right is right. The Cap is still where it was in regards to dead space and the Flyers have the use of an experienced D-man with size and thump... Where is Homer wrong on THIS move?

It is so easy pontificating perceived rights and wrongs when facts are not in play.
I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say.

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
Beef Invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 11:09 PM
  #407
Sawdalite
AbleWasIEreISawLupul
 
Sawdalite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Girouxsalem
Posts: 5,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say.
"Saying the Walker move is only bad if he had been claimed is like saying stealing is only illegal if you get caught." is exactly what you said (posted)... What did you mean to say?

Sawdalite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 11:13 PM
  #408
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beef Runner
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 41,726
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
"Saying the Walker move is only bad if he had been claimed is like saying stealing is only illegal if you get caught." is exactly what you said (posted)... What did you mean to say?
I'm pointing out that the "it's only a bad move if ______" logic doesn't work. If it's a bad move, it's a bad move.

It's a lot like saying a stealing is only illegal if you get caught...

I'm not saying waiving is illegal, or whatever you thought I meant.

Beef Invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 11:26 PM
  #409
turkinaa
Registered User
 
turkinaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 915
vCash: 500
"Why should you go to jail for a crime someone else noticed?"

I might have missed this, but why was Walker called up if he's not playing tonight? Was he only called up on the chance another player is hurt or "to gauge interest?"

turkinaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 11:26 PM
  #410
Sawdalite
AbleWasIEreISawLupul
 
Sawdalite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Girouxsalem
Posts: 5,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'm pointing out that the "it's only a bad move if ______" logic doesn't work. If it's a bad move, it's a bad move.

It's a lot like saying a stealing is only illegal if you get caught...

I'm not saying waiving is illegal, or whatever you thought I meant.
And what I'm saying is you can claim it was wrong if there is a solid basis to do so... such as an illegal act... But merely to say "That was a bad move" and condemn him on such a baseless statement is not correct, IMO.

There is such a thing as cause and effect, and risk versus reward... in Homer & Co.'s minds whatever risk was taken was warranted based on the situation... and doing due diligence may have turned up that the risk was actually not so high. Some people here are acting the Judge and Jury by determining it is a fact that it was wrong to waive him... when in fact the only thing we have is opinions and results; the results show that it was the correct thing to do... opinions can argue that, but in no way is it proven to be wrong.

We can give our opinions just as you can... and you do not have the results to use to back up your opinion like Homer does... Besides, Homer's opinion along with Snider's and Luukko's are really the only opinions that are really worth anything.

Sawdalite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-02-2011, 11:32 PM
  #411
Sawdalite
AbleWasIEreISawLupul
 
Sawdalite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Girouxsalem
Posts: 5,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkinaa View Post
"Why should you go to jail for a crime someone else noticed?"

I might have missed this, but why was Walker called up if he's not playing tonight? Was he only called up on the chance another player is hurt or "to gauge interest?"
My guess is that the last minute travel and practice being cancelled may be he reason and Walker will play tomorrow or the game after that... Also Walker gives them the extra D-man in case of injury on the trip.

But that is only a guess on my part... I don't believe they've addressed that question yet.

Sawdalite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2011, 11:06 AM
  #412
BernieParent
Registered User
 
BernieParent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,474
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
No... he would have had Screwtape talk Homer into doing it for him.
You, sir, deserve a tip of my cap for seeing my C.S. Lewis reference and raising me one.

Holmgren has walked a razor's edge for the past few years, and has indeed made some great moves. While I think he and Snider approached the Bryzgalov negotiations like a couple of sailors on leave entering a brothel with $20s hanging out of their pockets, I am pleased that they landed a top goaltender, contract length/amount and relative merit of Vokoun aside. He should be lauded for landing Talbot, who has been one of the most consistent Flyers this year, though his calculator must have run out of batteries before he finished the contract offer. And he organized a team that came within a goal and a game of a Stanley Cup.

It's the moves that take away flexibility for little reason that raise my blood pressure. Needing Jody Shelley was iffy to start with, but that contract was ridiculous. The other examples have been outlined to death, so I will (like DFD) refer you all back through 400-odd pages.

And then there's the both/and scenarios: Bobrovsky last season, Read this season. I think Holgrem would have been foolish to have actually banked on these players being as integral as they were as undrafted rookies, but the scouting staff deserves commendation for recommending that they be signed. Luck and scouting acumen came together quite nicely.

BernieParent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2011, 11:27 AM
  #413
Hockeypete49
How you like me now!
 
Hockeypete49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: South Jersey
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 4,574
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Again, you are equating the waiving to a crime... judge, jury and executioner... Who are you to say that it was wrong? It was legal according to the CBA... unlike stealing which is illegal, or speeding which is illegal... He made a legal move and was rewarded for it.

This, my friend, is an example of why some of us ask how can Homer ever do anything right in the eyes of some... Not only is he fried for moves hat are proven wrong, but he is raked over he coals for things that some people deem to be wrong without being demonstrated as being so... Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't (do anything wrong)... He is in the position to take pot shots against him without any chance of redemption, short of winning a Cup... and even then I'm sure he will be taken to task for whatever he's done.

He did no crime and his guess that Walker would not be claimed and lost with half his Cap hit was correct... The people who cried the sky was falling were proven incorrect... Had Homer made an illegal move, such as steal or speed, it would be okay to say that wrong is wrong... just as it is right to now say, right is right. The Cap is still where it was in regards to dead space and the Flyers have the use of an experienced D-man with size and thump... Where is Homer wrong on THIS move?

It is so easy pontificating perceived rights and wrongs when facts are not in play.
Well said.

Hockeypete49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2011, 12:05 PM
  #414
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beef Runner
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 41,726
vCash: 500
What matters is that calling walker up is nowhere near worth the risk of him getting claimed. The fact that he wasn't claimed does not change that or make it better. Its still a stupid and pointless risk.

...like how stealing isn't considered legal just because you weren't caught.

Beef Invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2011, 12:27 PM
  #415
DrinkFightFlyers
Grave Before Shave
 
DrinkFightFlyers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,967
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to DrinkFightFlyers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
What matters is that calling walker up is nowhere near worth the risk of him getting claimed. The fact that he wasn't claimed does not change that or make it better. Its still a stupid and pointless risk.

...like how stealing isn't considered legal just because you weren't caught.
Ok, dude. We get it. You don't think it was worth the risk. You have been saying that for the last two days.

DrinkFightFlyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2011, 12:43 PM
  #416
Sawdalite
AbleWasIEreISawLupul
 
Sawdalite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Girouxsalem
Posts: 5,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
What matters is that calling walker up is nowhere near worth the risk of him getting claimed. The fact that he wasn't claimed does not change that or make it better. Its still a stupid and pointless risk.

...like how stealing isn't considered legal just because you weren't caught.
You have your opinions, and on the cases where we are speaking of what didn't happen, we can only guess as to how that opinion would play out... Homer has his opinions, and I don't believe you can argue that his have been based on more and better inside information than either yours or certainly mine... Homer's opinion can better be judged due to the fact that the results that we are debating has occurred and are 100% in his favor.

* Walker was waived on recall and cleared through all 29 other Organizations.

* Homer, after sifting through facts at hand and educated opinions and discussions determined that the risk was low enough, and worth taking.

* Walker after clearing waivers joined the team in California and the Flyers have seven D-men on the road trip, allowing for injury... and the Flyers now do not have to ice two very raw rookies at the same time.

* The Flyers did not lose any dead Cap space and were able to shift Cap money within the CBA allowed rules in order to fit Walker on the roster.

* All the above has either happened or is in a position to happen.

* With Walker not claimed off recall waivers we have no idea how much if any interest there was... and how close he was to being claimed, if he was close at all.

* At this point we cannot judge the risk at any level above zero percent (0%) since that would be pure conjecture on our part.

My Conclusion: Homer's opinion, and his educated judgement, was proven correct and any suggestion that he was wrong... and made a dumb move... is both unfair and proven to be false. Homer cannot be judged badly on this move and any results should be applied to the plus side of the ledger when debating how Homer has done to-date as the Flyers GM.

Homer is by no means 100% correct in every decision and every aspect of his work... just as he is not 100% incorrect... He should be called out on his decisions that are proven to be wrong, and not on his decisions that people deem could have turned out badly had they played out in a manner that never actually occurred.


Last edited by Sawdalite: 12-03-2011 at 12:48 PM.
Sawdalite is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:50 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.