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The REAL reason why this team is in a serious funk.

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Old
12-02-2011, 11:25 PM
  #26
5 Minute Major
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Originally Posted by MillerFan1 View Post
I don't completely fault them for re-signing him... but its time to ship him out of here. We have an entire team of streaky players... really don't need to keep them all around wasting space and money.
Yeah, I can agree with that. A shakeup is needed but I'm not exactly confident that Regier will see it that way. I'm sure he probably thinks we'll be fine once we get our injured players back.

But, in the meantime, who else will get injured? It's hockey and you know we will have more injuries before this is all said and done. You have to be able to overcome that.

I doubt we will ever have a fully healthy squad.

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Old
12-02-2011, 11:30 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
Yeah, I can agree with that. A shakeup is needed but I'm not exactly confident that Regier will see it that way. I'm sure he probably thinks we'll be fine once we get our injured players back.

But, in the meantime, who else will get injured? It's hockey and you know we will have more injuries before this is all said and done. You have to be able to overcome that.

I doubt we will ever have a fully healthy squad.
Of course he won't. Hes Darcy Regier and that's his motto. Our injured players coming back are deadline acquisitions according to him.

That's how he rolls.

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12-02-2011, 11:45 PM
  #28
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Derek Roy. no issue

Drew Stafford- with vanek.

Ville Leino- pair with hecht. Leino just needs someone who knows how to hold on to the puck and pass.

Nathan Gerbe- has a lot of sucess with gaustad. Gaustad has size like boyle.

Brad Boyes- I'd like to see him play with hecht.

Tyler Ennis- I would try luke adam.


Last edited by ImpressedDAHagent: 12-03-2011 at 12:10 PM.
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Old
12-03-2011, 12:05 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
Derek Roy, Drew Stafford, Ville Leino, Nathan Gerbe, Brad Boyes and Tyler Ennis.

128 man games played between these six players, who we are counting on for offense.

17 goals total.

Yes, we have been bitten by the injury bug but these players simply aren't producing like this team needs them to. They haven't picked up their game when the team has needed them the most.

Their production is, and has been, pathetic.
I pretty much agree with this. It doesn't matter if they've been 'playing well' but just 'haven't been able to find the back of the net', you don't win with just a good effort and no goals. There is no other bigger picture IMO really. The big picture is to win. A large part of winning is scoring enough goals. These players listed are being paid/expected to produce and are not doing enough of it. If we wanted people to just put in a honest night's effort and 'play well' but not expect them to produce regularly, they'd be on the 3rd or 4th line and be paid commensurately. We just gave Stafford a big contract expecting him to be closer to the player he was last year rather than the player he was preceding last season. Roy, Boyes and Leino need to start producing. It can't be all Vanek and Pominville (and toss Adam in there since he's 3rd on the team in scoring). What happens when (like now) they slump a bit, our other guys should be picking it up and chipping in. They are not so we have virtually no goal production.

We've scored 35 goals over the month of Nov (and including tonight's game), which is 15 games. 10 of those 15 games we scored 2 or less goals. That's simply not good enough. 42 % of our goal production is from Vanek, Pominville and Adam. We came into the season expecting a team deep at skilled forwards. That was supposed to be our strength. We're 13th in the league in scoring and 14th in goal differential. Middle of the pack. Not good enough.

I am willing to cut Gerbe some slack because he has mostly seen 3rd to 4th line duty, but he could really pick it up some more. Ennis I will cut a bit of slack because he has only played 8 games so it's a small sample size. If he continues to not produce though he is subject the same criticism since he generally sees top 6 forward ice time and is on the PP.

Add Myers to this list. We just gave him a nice extension and he is not performing up to par. I'd be willing to overlook his lower offensive production if he was effective defensively but for the most part he has not been. He looked better after being benched then got injured so well who knows where he will be when he comes back.

Sure you can say well our defense has been sub par and goaltending has not been great, but when you score 2 or less goals in 10 out of 15 games, unless you have Hasek in net or effectively employ the trap, you're not going to win many of those games. For the record, we won 4 of those 10 games.

Bottom line is we need to have more balanced scoring. Guys need to step and put the puck in the net.


Last edited by Mellifleur: 12-03-2011 at 12:42 AM.
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Old
12-03-2011, 12:26 AM
  #30
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the late night ramblings of a madman

Darcys dream of recreating 05-07 ends here.

Pegula sheds the fanboy and gets real
bye Darcy, hello Dudley
have fun in CBJ Lindy, hello Granato

To: COL

Roy
Weber
CGY 2nd

To: BUF

Stastny

To: WPG

Ennis
Boyes
Gragnani

To: BUF

Little
Kulda

To: MIN

Stafford
Brennan

To: BUF

Clutterbuck

Vanek-Stastny-Pominville
Leino-Little-Clutterbuck
Hecht-Adam-Kassian
Gerbe-Goose-Kaleta
xTropp, McCormick, Ellis, Szczec, Foligno etc

Myers-Regehr
Leo-Ehrhoff
Sekera-McNabb
xKulda, Schiestal, Finley, Pysyk

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Old
12-03-2011, 02:27 AM
  #31
Play4Miracles*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
Derek Roy, Drew Stafford, Ville Leino, Nathan Gerbe, Brad Boyes and Tyler Ennis.

128 man games played between these six players, who we are counting on for offense.

17 goals total.

Yes, we have been bitten by the injury bug but these players simply aren't producing like this team needs them to. They haven't picked up their game when the team has needed them the most.

Their production is, and has been, pathetic.
Exactly. The Sabres are SUPPOSED to have scorign depth this year, maybe even too much of it! Boyes on a 4th line? That's absurd. And yet, they all suck hard. Even when they are healthy and in the line up, they look invisible.

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Old
12-03-2011, 03:00 AM
  #32
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I don't want to split up Vanek and Pomineville.

Vanek - Adam - Pomineville
Lino - Roy - Kassian
Ennis - Gaustad - Stafford
McCormick - Hecht - Ellis

This would be my lines in the current situation.

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Old
12-03-2011, 07:44 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
Still not having any luck finding the man games lost due to injury. Must be looking in the wrong places.
I don't believe it's officially recorded or even consistently unofficially recorded.

You'd have to calculate it yourself or hope that someone else will.

Edit: Turns out it's in the Sabres game notes, which can be found on the right side of each game preview on the Sabres website.
You can also access them by simply changing the x's in this URL:
http://sabres.nhl.com/v2/ext/2011-12...xxxx/notes.pdf
The format is: YYYYMMDD

The total is 76 games though and I listed the players and their injuries and games missed in the injury thread.


Last edited by jfb392: 12-03-2011 at 09:10 AM.
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Old
12-03-2011, 09:01 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
I don't believe it's officially recorded or even consistently unofficially recorded.

You'd have to calculate it yourself or hope that someone else will.
Injuries have nothing to do with lack of production for the guys listed above. Ennis was out a while but is still scoreless in 9 games, Stafford, Leino, and Roy have been healthy all season. Roy had a good week and a half and hasn't done squat since. Stafford hasn't scored in his last 12, Leino has been awful as was Boyes before he hot hurt.

You can blame injuries for us losing some games but it can be argued that the recalls who replaced those guys have produced right on par with how those injured players were previously doing anyways.

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Old
12-03-2011, 09:06 AM
  #35
jfb392
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Originally Posted by MillerFan1 View Post
Injuries have nothing to do with lack of production for the guys listed above. Ennis was out a while but is still scoreless in 9 games, Stafford, Leino, and Roy have been healthy all season. Roy had a good week and a half and hasn't done squat since. Stafford hasn't scored in his last 12, Leino has been awful as was Boyes before he hot hurt.

You can blame injuries for us losing some games but it can be argued that the recalls who replaced those guys have produced right on par with how those injured players were previously doing anyways.
I'm not disagreeing there, I was just answering his question.

You are correct in saying that the recalls have, for the most part, played better than the players that they are replacing though.
It is concerning but refreshing at the same time.

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Old
12-03-2011, 09:12 AM
  #36
omglolnub
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabreality View Post
the late night ramblings of a madman

Darcys dream of recreating 05-07 ends here.

Pegula sheds the fanboy and gets real
bye Darcy, hello Dudley
have fun in CBJ Lindy, hello Granato

To: COL

Roy
Weber
CGY 2nd

To: BUF

Stastny

To: WPG

Ennis
Boyes
Gragnani

To: BUF

Little
Kulda

To: MIN

Stafford
Brennan

To: BUF

Clutterbuck

Vanek-Stastny-Pominville
Leino-Little-Clutterbuck
Hecht-Adam-Kassian
Gerbe-Goose-Kaleta
xTropp, McCormick, Ellis, Szczec, Foligno etc

Myers-Regehr
Leo-Ehrhoff
Sekera-McNabb
xKulda, Schiestal, Finley, Pysyk
-4/10 XBoxes. None of those trades happen even in NHL 12.

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Old
12-03-2011, 09:16 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabreality View Post
To: COL

Roy
Weber
CGY 2nd

To: BUF

Stastny
Seriously?

Between last year and this year, here are the stat lines for Roy & Stastny:

PS - 100 gp 29g 42a 71pts .71 pts/gp -12
DR - 60gp 16g 35a 51pts .85 pts/gp -5

Cap hits:

PS - $6.6M
DR - $4M

With the Sabres close to the cap, that is a bad, bad deal, IMO.

Heck, with the contracts and the production numbers what they are, I'd want Colorado to add the sweetener to a PS for DR deal and not the Sabres.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabreality View Post
To: WPG

Ennis
Boyes
Gragnani

To: BUF

Little
Kulda
That's better. But, I doubt that the Jets have any interest in dealing Little for that package.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabreality View Post
To: MIN

Stafford
Brennan

To: BUF

Clutterbuck
Again, I don't see why the Sabres are adding sweetener. Sure, the money side of things is lopsided in favor of the Sabres, but the talent end of the deal is waaaay lopsided in favor of Minnesota.

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Old
12-03-2011, 09:21 AM
  #38
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There is no one reason why this team isn't playing well.

It's a mixture of injuries in bulk and to key guys, guys not playing to their potential (and that list is almost as long as the injured list when it was at 9 guys out of the lineup), and the normal slump that hits all teams at certain points throughout an 82 game NHL season.

For instance, Boston is going great now, but they had a "Stanley Cup Hangover" slump early in the year.

It will be really interesting to see how patient everyone is over there and if they hit the panic button on a move of any variety from a trade to firing Lindy and/or Regier.

My guess is that Pegula won't gas Regier or Ruff this season or next. So, it all comes down to if/when Regier makes a move to improve the team and if Ruff can push the buttons on the underachievers.

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Old
12-03-2011, 09:50 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
Still not having any luck finding the man games lost due to injury. Must be looking in the wrong places.
76. Someone posted that in the injury thread. Everyone has them. Look at the Peguins, they have 85 so far this year.

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Old
12-03-2011, 10:01 AM
  #40
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There is confusion all over the ice. Why does it seem like most of the players don't know where they should be in the defensive zone? How come only Vanek, Pominville, and Adam can put the puck in the net? Whether there are injuries or not, most of the players look like they don't know what the hell they should be doing. The passing is atrocious. No teams we play against give up anywhere near as many odd-man rushes as the Sabres. This all points to coaching for me.

You can't trade everyone. You can't trade half of the team team either. You can maybe make a couple of deals, but is that really going to help? Ruff already has a bunch of new faces, yet it's the same old Sabres.

Trading Roy may be the best answer, aside from making a coaching change. He's a core player, a perimeter player, a player that for whatever reason wears a letter, and is supposed to be a leader. He's Ruff's go-to player (plays more even strength minutes than any forward). Ruff can't see what a detriment he is, so eliminate Roy from Lindy's options. They were a better team without Roy not too long ago.

Adam, Hecht, Boyes, Gaustad, McCormick, Ellis, Gerbe, Leino. They're all able to play the center position. If you can't get a center in return for Roy, it will still be addition by subtraction. Don't let his numbers fool you. He's line killer, a momentum killer, a selfish, soft player, but his contract makes him a tradeable commodity. The best part of his game is his defensive game, but we have plenty of defensive forwards. Someone needs to be the sacrificial lamb. He's the #1 candidate.

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Old
12-03-2011, 10:02 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Whammer View Post
76. Someone posted that in the injury thread. Everyone has them. Look at the Peguins, they have 85 so far this year.
Exactly. That's an example of a tremendous headcoach, which the Sabres do not have.

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Old
12-03-2011, 11:17 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by ShaPow View Post
There is confusion all over the ice. Why does it seem like most of the players don't know where they should be in the defensive zone? How come only Vanek, Pominville, and Adam can put the puck in the net? Whether there are injuries or not, most of the players look like they don't know what the hell they should be doing. The passing is atrocious. No teams we play against give up anywhere near as many odd-man rushes as the Sabres. This all points to coaching for me.

You can't trade everyone. You can't trade half of the team team either. You can maybe make a couple of deals, but is that really going to help? Ruff already has a bunch of new faces, yet it's the same old Sabres.

Trading Roy may be the best answer, aside from making a coaching change. He's a core player, a perimeter player, a player that for whatever reason wears a letter, and is supposed to be a leader. He's Ruff's go-to player (plays more even strength minutes than any forward). Ruff can't see what a detriment he is, so eliminate Roy from Lindy's options. They were a better team without Roy not too long ago.

Adam, Hecht, Boyes, Gaustad, McCormick, Ellis, Gerbe, Leino. They're all able to play the center position. If you can't get a center in return for Roy, it will still be addition by subtraction. Don't let his numbers fool you. He's line killer, a momentum killer, a selfish, soft player, but his contract makes him a tradeable commodity. The best part of his game is his defensive game, but we have plenty of defensive forwards. Someone needs to be the sacrificial lamb. He's the #1 candidate.
Love that avatar. Gerry Desjardins, correct?

Anyway, I think the sacrificial lamb should be Darcy Regier to start. He has too cozy of a relationship with Lindy Ruff and the players he has drafted or acquired on this team.

Bring in a fresh set of eyes to evaluate Lindy Ruff and all the players on this team and I would hope Pegula and Black would let that new GM make the necessary changes. This team is stagnant and a new outlook is needed and I would love to see what another hockey man that has no allegiance to anyone in this organization thinks.

I don't feel comfortable with Darcy Regier or Lindy Rufff having input on the changes that need to be made. If a new GM comes in and thinks Lindy is the answer, I can live with that as long as changes in personnel are made. This team needs changes. Anyone can see that.

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12-03-2011, 11:19 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
Love that avatar. Gerry Desjardins, correct?

Anyway, I think the sacrificial lamb should be Darcy Regier to start. He has too cozy of a relationship with Lindy Ruff and the players he has drafted or acquired on this team.

Bring in a fresh set of eyes to evaluate Lindy Ruff and all the players on this team and I would hope Pegula and Black would let that new GM make the necessary changes. This team is stagnant and a new outlook is needed and I would love to see what another hockey man that has no allegiance to anyone in this organization thinks.

I don't feel comfortable with Darcy Regier or Lindy Rufff having input on the changes that need to be made. If a new GM comes in and thinks Lindy is the answer, I can live with that.
I agree wholeheartedly, but the coach almost always gets the ax before the GM. If anything, it happens out of self-preservation. Which is too bad. Regier should go before Ruff does.

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12-03-2011, 11:23 AM
  #44
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I agree wholeheartedly, but the coach almost always gets the ax before the GM. If anything, it happens out of self-preservation. Which is too bad. Regier should go before Ruff does.
Agreed, but I think with what Pegula has said before, he holds Lindy Ruff in a higher regard than he does Darcy Regier.

Even with saying that I think the right move would be to axe Regier first. Let the new GM come in, make evaluations, either keep or fire Ruff and bring his own man in and start building a roster that has a different makeup.

Enough is enough.

I don't want Darcy Regier making another decision that will effect this team moving forward. I have no faith at all in him.

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12-03-2011, 11:34 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
Love that avatar. Gerry Desjardins, correct?

Anyway, I think the sacrificial lamb should be Darcy Regier to start. He has too cozy of a relationship with Lindy Ruff and the players he has drafted or acquired on this team.

Bring in a fresh set of eyes to evaluate Lindy Ruff and all the players on this team and I would hope Pegula and Black would let that new GM make the necessary changes. This team is stagnant and a new outlook is needed and I would love to see what another hockey man that has no allegiance to anyone in this organization thinks.

I don't feel comfortable with Darcy Regier or Lindy Rufff having input on the changes that need to be made. If a new GM comes in and thinks Lindy is the answer, I can live with that as long as changes in personnel are made. This team needs changes. Anyone can see that.
Thanks, I really like it too. I'm pretty sure it's a duplicate of the Desjardins mask, a modern paint job on an old school mask.

I'm much different regarding Regier. This is part of the reason I've soured on Ruff. I don't have a major problem with the Sabres GM at all.

- The Sabres have more former draft picks playing in the NHL currently than any other NHL franchise. Not just on the Sabres....League-wide.

- Subtracting Niedermayer, Butler, and Montador and adding Leino, Regehr, and Ehrhoff is a gigantic upgrade in talent. The team is still unimpressive and hit or miss, yet the talent is vastly upgraded.

- Regier drafted the 3 previous AHL Rookies of the Year, and all 3 of them are on Ruff's roster.

- Thomas Vanek is one of the best players in the league. We've got very solid goaltenders. Arguably the deepest defense core in the league. Plenty of quality two-way players. A former 40 goalscorer on the 4th line.

I'm not sure what else the GM is supposed to do, rather than do something more to address the center position or fire his coach. But he's absolutely covered everything else and then some. Not every team is going to be loaded in every single position. The Sabres are loaded everywhere. They just don't have a #1 center.

A great head coach should be able to make this roster run like a well oiled machine. Instead, they're a confused, under-performing mess for the most part.

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12-03-2011, 11:37 AM
  #46
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Thanks, I really like it too. I'm pretty sure it's a duplicate of the Desjardins mask, a modern paint job on an old school mask.

I'm much different regarding Regier. This is part of the reason I've soured on Ruff. I don't have a major problem with the Sabres GM at all.

- The Sabres have more former draft picks playing in the NHL currently than any other NHL franchise. Not just on the Sabres....League-wide.

- Subtracting Niedermayer, Butler, and Montador and adding Leino, Regehr, and Ehrhoff is a gigantic upgrade in talent. The team is still unimpressive and hit or miss, yet the talent is vastly upgraded.

- Regier drafted the 3 previous AHL Rookies of the Year, and all 3 of them are on Ruff's roster.

- Thomas Vanek is one of the best players in the league. We've got very solid goaltenders. Arguably the deepest defense core in the league. Plenty of quality two-way players. A former 40 goalscorer on the 4th line.

I'm not sure what else the GM is supposed to do, rather than do something more to address the center position or fire his coach. But he's absolutely covered everything else and then some. Not every team is going to be loaded in every single position. The Sabres are loaded everywhere. They just don't have a #1 center.

A great head coach should be able to make this roster run like a well oiled machine. Instead, they're a confused, under-performing mess for the most part.
You do put up a heck of an argument. I still think Regier is way too slow to make changes with the personnel on this team and I see no way he would give Lindy a pink slip and I don't think Pegula will at this point, either.

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12-03-2011, 11:45 AM
  #47
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Ted Black on WGR said he feels the team as presently constituted could contend for a Cup. So don't hold your breath waiting for major changes.

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12-03-2011, 11:47 AM
  #48
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Things will even out over the course of a season. The team won't continue to miss prime scoring opportunities night in and night out.

Expecting a 60-minute effort every single game and a consistent win-loss pattern through out the season is unreasonable.

They are in a funk because... they are in a funk.

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12-03-2011, 12:01 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Ted Black on WGR said he feels the team as presently constituted could contend for a Cup. So don't hold your breath waiting for major changes.
I whole-heartledly agree with him. That says a lot about the head coach. It also says a lot about the GM. The pieces are there, the results are not.

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12-03-2011, 12:02 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major View Post
Agreed, but I think with what Pegula has said before, he holds Lindy Ruff in a higher regard than he does Darcy Regier.

Even with saying that I think the right move would be to axe Regier first. Let the new GM come in, make evaluations, either keep or fire Ruff and bring his own man in and start building a roster that has a different makeup.

Enough is enough.

I don't want Darcy Regier making another decision that will effect this team moving forward. I have no faith at all in him.
How long do you think it would take a new GM to change the make-up of this team? Do you expect them to just make a bunch of trades to do so? That's usually a pipe-dream.

More realistically, they would do it through the draft and some trades here and there.

You know... exactly what Darcy Regier has been doing.

They can't get rid of players without having NHL capable players ready to replace them.

They obvious needed more size and/or toughness
Adam, Kassian will be top 6 replacements.
Tropp, Foligno will be bottom 6 replacements
McNabb will possibly be a top 4 d-man.
Regehr was brought in to help that temporarily.

They needed a bit more scoring too (particularly in the playoffs)
Ehrhoff is a top 2 d-man and PP QB.
Leino was probably the best option behind Brad Richards for "clutch scoring" (in the playoffs)
Armia has the potential to be a top line player.

Then of course there is Myers and Ennis.

They have been trying to shift the make-up of this team slowly. There's no reason to gut a pretty good (but easily arguable not good enough to contend for the cup) team overnight just because.

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