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Injury Talk 3.0: Gionta out indefinitely (bicep tear)

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Old
12-03-2011, 07:55 PM
  #26
Lshap
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There's no reason to blame Markov for any of this. As far as we know, he did everything right in his recovery and, unfortunately, had setbacks. If this surgery is successful - and there's no reason to think it won't be - he'll be back early in the new year, as soon as he can and for as effectively as he can. I don't care about his salary - it was negotiated fairly and in good faith based on information at the time. Do I know that for sure? No, but there's no logical reason to believe in hidden conspiracies.

I also don't blame the management for signing him. Of course it was a risk. But we dump all over these guys for NOT taking chances; I won't fault them for rolling the dice on a star player.

What I DO blame management for is not having a backup plan for their defense. As I stated previously, jettisoning Hamrlik and Wiz in the hope that Markov, Emelin and Diaz would immediately soar in their positions, was irresponsibly optimistic.

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12-03-2011, 08:05 PM
  #27
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What a shock and people scoffed when I said atleast X mas or later till we see him back and here we are Dec and now another operation his knee will NEVER and I mean NEVER be the same and he will contiue to need these supposed minor repairs. He should pack it in already and just sit back and collect his insurance cheque.

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Old
12-03-2011, 08:29 PM
  #28
Paul Dipietro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
There's no reason to blame Markov for any of this. As far as we know, he did everything right in his recovery and, unfortunately, had setbacks. If this surgery is successful - and there's no reason to think it won't be - he'll be back early in the new year, as soon as he can and for as effectively as he can. I don't care about his salary - it was negotiated fairly and in good faith based on information at the time. Do I know that for sure? No, but there's no logical reason to believe in hidden conspiracies.

I also don't blame the management for signing him. Of course it was a risk. But we dump all over these guys for NOT taking chances; I won't fault them for rolling the dice on a star player.

What I DO blame management for is not having a backup plan for their defense. As I stated previously, jettisoning Hamrlik and Wiz in the hope that Markov, Emelin and Diaz would immediately soar in their positions, was irresponsibly optimistic.
Well they had a backup plan and he was called Campoli... Just a string of rotten bad luck if you ask me

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12-03-2011, 08:40 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Paul Dipietro View Post
Well they had a backup plan and he was called Campoli... Just a string of rotten bad luck if you ask me
When your backup plan to your supposed star rearguard is a journeyman bottom pairing dman who can't find a job then you deserve what's coming to you.

I thought luck was last years excuse. Winners make their own.

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12-03-2011, 08:49 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by JimmyDarmody View Post
I thought luck was last years excuse. Winners make their own.
Couldn't have said it any better myself.

Too many people here are quick to blame bad luck and write season after season off to it.

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12-03-2011, 08:52 PM
  #31
Paul Dipietro
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Originally Posted by JimmyDarmody View Post
When your backup plan to your supposed star rearguard is a journeyman bottom pairing dman who can't find a job then you deserve what's coming to you.

I thought luck was last years excuse. Winners make their own.
I never said it was a GOOD backup plan. And had Campoli been healthy, I'm sure he would've helped the PP... at least marginally

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12-03-2011, 08:56 PM
  #32
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rumor has it that markov re-injured his knee while flossing his teeth

but i think he'll come back stronger and better than before

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Old
12-03-2011, 08:58 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by JimmyDarmody View Post
When your backup plan to your supposed star rearguard is a journeyman bottom pairing dman who can't find a job then you deserve what's coming to you.

I thought luck was last years excuse. Winners make their own.
Campoli is a better player than you are giving him credit for.

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Old
12-03-2011, 09:00 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
rumor has it that markov re-injured his knee while flossing his teeth

but i think he'll come back stronger and better than before
I see what you did there...

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12-03-2011, 09:00 PM
  #35
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How can anybody think this is good news? This is very disappointing news imo. Another 3-5 weeks...and at this point I wouldn't be surprised if it's more than 5 weeks. What a joke. I like Markie, but what a joke this is.

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12-03-2011, 09:02 PM
  #36
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The Markov deal was the one deal I was critical of from the start.

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12-03-2011, 09:05 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
There's no reason to blame Markov for any of this. As far as we know, he did everything right in his recovery and, unfortunately, had setbacks. If this surgery is successful - and there's no reason to think it won't be - he'll be back early in the new year, as soon as he can and for as effectively as he can. I don't care about his salary - it was negotiated fairly and in good faith based on information at the time. Do I know that for sure? No, but there's no logical reason to believe in hidden conspiracies.

I also don't blame the management for signing him. Of course it was a risk. But we dump all over these guys for NOT taking chances; I won't fault them for rolling the dice on a star player.

What I DO blame management for is not having a backup plan for their defense. As I stated previously, jettisoning Hamrlik and Wiz in the hope that Markov, Emelin and Diaz would immediately soar in their positions, was irresponsibly optimistic.
The replacements for Wiz and Hamrlik were Gorges, Markov and Campoli. They also added Diaz and Emelin for depth, obviously they did not expect Diaz and Emelin would be top 6 regulars for most games to this point even if Markov had to miss more time. At one point our 4 most experienced d-men were out, no amount of planning can account for that.

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Old
12-03-2011, 09:08 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
The Markov deal was the one deal I was critical of from the start.
It's easy to whine about re-signing Markov...but his recovery was right on track at the time, plus guys like that don't grow on trees.

Who would you have signed instead?

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Old
12-03-2011, 09:40 PM
  #39
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Not sure if this has been asked, but how did something this simple not be performed, and caught, a long time ago? I question the medical personal for not doing this earlier, its something that should have been caught with all the attention the knee has got.

Or, am I missing something here? This doesn't just pop up, he's had the need for the scope and cleaning for some time by the sounds of it, so why not do it well into the rehabilitation, not so close to when he is supposed to join the team?

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Old
12-03-2011, 09:42 PM
  #40
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Not sure if this has been asked, but how did something this simple not be performed, and caught, a long time ago? I question the medical personal for not doing this earlier, its something that should have been caught with all the attention the knee has got.

Or, am I missing something here? This doesn't just pop up, he's had the need for the scope and cleaning for some time by the sounds of it, so why not do it well into the rehabilitation, not so close to when he is supposed to join the team?
I was thinking the same thing. He had water on the knee back in late August before camp, I assume this was caused by loose cartilage in the knee rubbing and causing the inflamation.

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Old
12-03-2011, 09:59 PM
  #41
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I was thinking the same thing. He had water on the knee back in late August before camp, I assume this was caused by loose cartilage in the knee rubbing and causing the inflamation.
If this is true, and I'm Molson, or management, I'm questioning a lot of people who provide medical services/advice to this team.

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Old
12-03-2011, 10:33 PM
  #42
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It's easy to whine about re-signing Markov...but his recovery was right on track at the time, plus guys like that don't grow on trees.

Who would you have signed instead?
I liked Wiz, but not at the price Columbus paid. I don't know who I would have signed, perhaps I would have saved the money for next offseason. It's not this season that the cap hit hurts, it's over the next two...

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12-03-2011, 11:28 PM
  #43
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If this is true, and I'm Molson, or management, I'm questioning a lot of people who provide medical services/advice to this team.
I question the athletic and training staff of the habs quite a bit, actually. Judging by the state of the "science" of physical training currently, it is absolutely possible that the habs athletic/training staff are highly qualified, and absolutely full of ****.

I haven't investigated the personnel specifically, but the amount of 'small injuries,' 'fluke injuries,' 'injuries sustained in practice,' on this team raises my suspicions.

The fact that Gauthier doesn't know **** about athletic training, and the fact that the people in control will absolutely be "professionals," probably makes a problem in that area quite difficult to detect.

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Old
12-03-2011, 11:38 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by NotProkofievian View Post
I question the athletic and training staff of the habs quite a bit, actually. Judging by the state of the "science" of physical training currently, it is absolutely possible that the habs athletic/training staff are highly qualified, and absolutely full of ****.

I haven't investigated the personnel specifically, but the amount of 'small injuries,' 'fluke injuries,' 'injuries sustained in practice,' on this team raises my suspicions.

The fact that Gauthier doesn't know **** about athletic training, and the fact that the people in control will absolutely be "professionals," probably makes a problem in that area quite difficult to detect.
I remember years ago the team fired the training staff, medical people because the Canadiens kept leading the league in injuries. Maybe it is time they did this again.

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12-04-2011, 12:21 AM
  #45
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I gotta admit I was wrong. I thought for sure he was playing Tuesday...now this?

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12-04-2011, 12:54 AM
  #46
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When Markov IS finally back, everyone will stop complaining about the signing. I was pissed as well when I heard about it today, but I'm sort of over it and like the level-headed big picture opinions are saying, all we have to do is ride out the rest of the month without him and improve from within. Cammy score more. Gionta too. Gomez, when he comes back could make a huge difference. Eventually, everything with Markov will be fine, but I can't stand the thought of not making the playoffs so I just hope we find a way to hold on.

I still support the signing and if I think about it, I'm appreciative that they want to bring him back at 100%. I can't confirm that there won't be more problems, but I know that if and when he comes back, M. Markov will take it upon himself to give every dollar back to the organization with his play. If we hold on this month, we will make the playoffs.

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12-04-2011, 01:06 AM
  #47
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When Markov IS finally back, everyone will stop complaining about the signing. I was pissed as well when I heard about it today, but I'm sort of over it and like the level-headed big picture opinions are saying, all we have to do is ride out the rest of the month without him and improve from within. Cammy score more. Gionta too. Gomez, when he comes back could make a huge difference. Eventually, everything with Markov will be fine, but I can't stand the thought of not making the playoffs so I just hope we find a way to hold on.

I still support the signing and if I think about it, I'm appreciative that they want to bring him back at 100%. I can't confirm that there won't be more problems, but I know that if and when he comes back, M. Markov will take it upon himself to give every dollar back to the organization with his play. If we hold on this month, we will make the playoffs.
Habs were 7-4-1 after Spacek came back into the lineup, been 4-4-2 since he left. Him and Campoli coming back will help the Habs plenty, and I'm pretty sure they'll play over ,500.

With Markov out, Spacek becomes very important.

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Old
12-04-2011, 01:09 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by JimmyDarmody View Post
When your backup plan to your supposed star rearguard is a journeyman bottom pairing dman who can't find a job then you deserve what's coming to you.

I thought luck was last years excuse. Winners make their own.
Habs already had a deal worked out with him since the beginning of free agency... Don't remember what made the hold up, but Gauthier was quoted as saying they already had a deal agreed on since early July.

EDIT: I didn't even remember this, and it also makes your assertion worst, Campoli wasn't even a free agent on July 1st. He went to arbitration and the team (Hawks) refused the decision (2,5 mil) and he got Dumonted. Habs had a deal with him worked out just after that. You could find Gauthier's interview, might still be on LaZoneVideo on RDS.

I wonder how many journey Dmen get a 2,5 mil from arbitration....


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Old
12-04-2011, 01:56 AM
  #49
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Markov will be back eventually. Worst case he isn't and it's zero cap hit. If anything I really don't mind this out of all years. This team needs some tweaking and if we finish in bottom half of league maybe well restock picks and see some retooling. With Markov in we may just finish under playoffs. Who knows though but we surely aren't a contender, that makes Markov injury pill easier for me. Just come back healthy. If it takes 2 months more so be it. I'm not gonna complain about it. Some are frustrated, imagine Markov. Not fun doing all this rehab.

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Old
12-04-2011, 02:40 AM
  #50
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The only problem I had with the Habs signing Markov was that it was for 3 years instead of 2. Not signing Wiz to a ridiculous 6-year contract was also the way to go.
I strongly believe money was never the deal breaker, simply term. Wisniewski wanted stability and to settle down with his family, knowing he would not have to uproot in three years. With how favorably he talked about the organization and city, he seemed willing to accept less money but wouldn't bunch on term. Frankly, it was a mistake to allow him to walk, especially if my assumption is accurate. He had an insane season with us and we watched yet another powerplay specialist and fairly decent defenseman, walk out the door.

Like others have insinuated, there was too much reliance placed upon Markov's return when we opted to not resign Wisniewski or Hamrlik.

Hamrlik - Wisniewski
Emelin - Subban
Gill - Gorges
Weber

vs.

Subban - Gorges
Emelin - Weber
Gill - Diaz

For argument sake, we will assume Spacek is injured and Campoli was never signed. The first, while not great, is far better than the second. The only good news about this is Markov's delayed return may bury Martin. If so, then I'm all for it.

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