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Old
12-03-2011, 11:17 PM
  #501
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Originally Posted by IloveChrisNeil View Post
I seem to recall Spokane fans saying when he first came into the WHL he was an offensive defenceman and it was his defensive work that needed working on. Unless im thinking of someone else but I don't think I am.
You gotta have the wrong guy, Cowen put up 18 points in 68 games in his rookie year. He may have scored a lot of points in minor midget but I doubt he was expected to put up points right away in the dub.

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12-03-2011, 11:28 PM
  #502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
You gotta have the wrong guy, Cowen put up 18 points in 68 games in his rookie year. He may have scored a lot of points in minor midget but I doubt he was expected to put up points right away in the dub.

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He was 15/16 though wasn't he as a rookie? Those are pretty good offensive numbers for a guy who most likely was the 3rd pairing guy. Im almost 90% sure it was Cowen. Hopefully randomly a Spokane fan see's this and can clarify haha.

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12-03-2011, 11:35 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by IloveChrisNeil View Post
He was 15/16 though wasn't he as a rookie? Those are pretty good offensive numbers for a guy who most likely was the 3rd pairing guy. Im almost 90% sure it was Cowen. Hopefully randomly a Spokane fan see's this and can clarify haha.
4 points in 21 games in the Spokane Memorial Cup run?

That run put Cowen on the map, I'm sure scouts saw offensive upside in his smarts, but I'd be surprised if you had the right guy.

He definitely had to learn offense more at the junior level then he ever had to learn defense....unless it was a problem only present at the early going of his rookie season.

All I know is he's starting to look like a future stud. All he was cracked up to be pre-injury, maybe more.

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12-04-2011, 01:52 AM
  #504
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Originally Posted by IloveChrisNeil View Post
I seem to recall Spokane fans saying when he first came into the WHL he was an offensive defenceman and it was his defensive work that needed working on. Unless im thinking of someone else but I don't think I am.
No your right. I recall the same

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12-04-2011, 03:06 AM
  #505
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Maybe they were showcasing Butler

Butler hasn't done much in 16 of the 17 games he has played. But to be fair to Butler tonight, when Spezza plays like he has the last two games it is very hard to be a winger on his line.
Filatov was one of the best players Sens with Spezza bad playing against Dallas. It was unfair his HS if it was not because of the rest after his injury.

To the lines: Filatov played great in the line Filatov--Grant/Armstrong--Parrish in Bingo. The similar type as Filatov--Foligno--Alfredsson would be. His hatty in CBJ was in the line Filatov--Peca--Voracek and the best achievments in the line Filatov--Vermette--Voracek. Again... typological similar as the line Filatov--Foligno--Voracek would be. Spezza likes puck he needs a player in the front of the net as Greening, Michalek not Filatov.


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12-04-2011, 03:11 AM
  #506
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Originally Posted by Shanny View Post
Greening-Spezza-Michalek
Filatov-Brassard-Alfie
Foligno-Smith-Condra
Daugavins-Winchester-Neil

This is what we should go with imo. Hopefully Murray and MacLean see the light!
Brassard was traded to Sens?

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12-04-2011, 04:13 AM
  #507
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Butler is the invisible man.

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12-04-2011, 04:26 AM
  #508
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I can bet that Butler will play against Tampa in the first line and Filatov will reassigned to Bingo, go to Russia or HS.


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12-04-2011, 05:10 AM
  #509
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The capitals used to be one of the most exciting teams to watch.. what happened? I hate their new system.

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12-04-2011, 08:46 AM
  #510
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The capitals used to be one of the most exciting teams to watch.. what happened? I hate their new system.
Its called playing the trap and it is ugly and boring to watch.

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12-04-2011, 09:30 AM
  #511
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Aside from Spezza and Michalek we have no one that could generate offense by themselves. Greening doesn't have those tools and the talent, Butler is very useless, Foligno is a 3rd liner and Alfie is aging.

Zibby, Silverberg, Stone, Puempel, Prince and Noeseb can't come soon enough.

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12-04-2011, 09:32 AM
  #512
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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
I can bet that Butler will play against Tampa in the first line and Filatov will reassigned to Bingo, go to Russia or HS.
hard to say Butler is not as impressive as you think to be honest. He played great last year but has only show it in flashes this year. It is a flip of a coin at this poitn between Filatov and Butler

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12-04-2011, 09:33 AM
  #513
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Originally Posted by Afro Thunder View Post
Aside from Spezza and Michalek we have no one that could generate offense by themselves. Greening doesn't have those tools and the talent, Butler is very useless, Foligno is a 3rd liner and Alfie is aging.

Zibby, Silverberg, Stone, Puempel, Prince and Noeseb can't come soon enough.
Regin will be back next month reportedly.

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12-04-2011, 11:58 AM
  #514
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Originally Posted by Afro Thunder View Post
Aside from Spezza and Michalek we have no one that could generate offense by themselves. Greening doesn't have those tools and the talent, Butler is very useless, Foligno is a 3rd liner and Alfie is aging.

Zibby, Silverberg, Stone, Puempel, Prince and Noeseb can't come soon enough.
With the exception of Zibanejad, none of the saviours you propose are better prospects than the NHL players you are complaining about were. Worse yet is that we haven't even mentioned the number of equally esteemed prospects this organization has been through who accomplished absolutely nothing... and I'm not talking 3rd liner in the NHL nothing --> I'm talking 4th liner career peak in the AHL.

Ottawa has been a great drafting team throughout it's young history. And that's not Detroit "great" where they waste blow their first 3 picks, pick up a couple of depth players and then draft a superstar in the 9th round. Ottawa has made it's early picks count and put more 1st rounders in the NHL than just about any team in the league.

From 1992-2008 (17 drafts), Ottawa drafted 34 players in the top-60 picks (today's 1st & 2nd rounds). I have considered many ways to break this down ( split in 2,3,4, etc ways), but 2 seems clear.

1- Yashin, Hossa, Havlat, Spezza, Karlsson, Phillips, Fisher, Berard, Volchenkov, Vermette, Bonk, Daigle, Gleason, Meszaros, Foligno, B.Lee, Traverse

2- Neckar, B.Larsen, Eaves, Bicanek, Hurme, Klepis, Kaigorodov, Penney, Charbonneau, Moro, Bala, Chouinard, Lajeunesse, Lyamin, O'Brien, Bashkirov, Wiercioch

Group 1 (17 players) is roughly 1/3 stars and 2/3 contributing, mid-tier players.

Group 2 (17 players) is roughly 1/3 depth players and 2/3 guys who haven't/never made it.

Guys like Foligno, Regin, Greening, Butler (guys that you can slot into your top-9)... they're the success stories. We'll be lucky if most of "Zibby, Silverberg, Stone, Puempel, Prince and Noesen" can match them, let alone surpass them.

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12-04-2011, 12:05 PM
  #515
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I'd say it's time to accept the fact that Silfverberg is a legitimate top 6 prospect with upside that may go beyond that.

It's not usual a 21 year old finds himself in top 5 in scoring in the SEL. Not only that, this was basically expected of him, and Mikael Renberg considers him the best player in the league. '

I know you won't admit it until it's obvious in front of your eyes, but chances are Silfverberg will be a better player than Foligno.

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12-04-2011, 12:26 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
With the exception of Zibanejad, none of the saviours you propose are better prospects than the NHL players you are complaining about were. Worse yet is that we haven't even mentioned the number of equally esteemed prospects this organization has been through who accomplished absolutely nothing... and I'm not talking 3rd liner in the NHL nothing --> I'm talking 4th liner career peak in the AHL.

Ottawa has been a great drafting team throughout it's young history. And that's not Detroit "great" where they waste blow their first 3 picks, pick up a couple of depth players and then draft a superstar in the 9th round. Ottawa has made it's early picks count and put more 1st rounders in the NHL than just about any team in the league.

From 1992-2008 (17 drafts), Ottawa drafted 34 players in the top-60 picks (today's 1st & 2nd rounds). I have considered many ways to break this down ( split in 2,3,4, etc ways), but 2 seems clear.

1- Yashin, Hossa, Havlat, Spezza, Karlsson, Phillips, Fisher, Berard, Volchenkov, Vermette, Bonk, Daigle, Gleason, Meszaros, Foligno, B.Lee, Traverse

2- Neckar, B.Larsen, Eaves, Bicanek, Hurme, Klepis, Kaigorodov, Penney, Charbonneau, Moro, Bala, Chouinard, Lajeunesse, Lyamin, O'Brien, Bashkirov, Wiercioch

Group 1 (17 players) is roughly 1/3 stars and 2/3 contributing, mid-tier players.

Group 2 (17 players) is roughly 1/3 depth players and 2/3 guys who haven't/never made it.

Guys like Foligno, Regin, Greening, Butler (guys that you can slot into your top-9)... they're the success stories. We'll be lucky if most of "Zibby, Silverberg, Stone, Puempel, Prince and Noesen" can match them, let alone surpass them.
Excellent post. A little dose of reality is a healthy thing. The Minister of Offense is probably right about Silfverberg. I think he's our best prospect right now but all those other guys have a whole lot to prove before I become anything more than cautiously optimistic. The assumption that all of Stone, Puempel, Noesen, Zibby and Prince will become productive top six NHLers is a recipe for heartbreak.

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12-04-2011, 12:33 PM
  #517
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Excellent post. A little dose of reality is a healthy thing. The Minister of Offense is probably right about Silfverberg. I think he's our best prospect right now but all those other guys have a whole lot to prove before I become anything more than cautiously optimistic. The assumption that all of Stone, Puempel, Noesen, Zibby and Prince will become productive top six NHLers is a recipe for heartbreak.
Puempel's the one with legit bust potential, but there's tools there that shows 30 goal upside. I like the pick, we need boom or bust guys even if we miss completely with a 1st rounder.

Noesen is a likely NHLer...even if he fails as a top 6er, he's a 3rd liner and has qualities that make him a good bet to be a quality NHLer.

Love Prince and I think despite no certainty as a top 6 player, I think he can play 3rd line on a team that rolls three lines that are offensively capable. He'll take a little while to break in though.

Stone needs another jump in his skating and his NHL prospects look quite good.

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12-04-2011, 12:40 PM
  #518
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Excellent post. A little dose of reality is a healthy thing. The Minister of Offense is probably right about Silfverberg. I think he's our best prospect right now but all those other guys have a whole lot to prove before I become anything more than cautiously optimistic. The assumption that all of Stone, Puempel, Noesen, Zibby and Prince will become productive top six NHLers is a recipe for heartbreak.
Thing is if only Zibby and Silfverberg become top six NHLers (which IMO are close or already this) we have our future developing right before our eyes. If you go out and sign a top 6 forward next year, the Sens are in pretty good shape and are set for years to come. If even one of Noeses, Prince, JGP or Puempel come even close to a top 6 forward, it's a bonus.

For anyone who haven't seen Silfverberg, he is a beast and IMO will be a nice match with Spezza.

Spezza, Michalek, Zibby, Silfverberg, top 6 UFA.....Then the last spot can be fought over (Filatov, Butler, Da Costa, Greening).

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12-04-2011, 12:42 PM
  #519
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Puempel's the one with legit bust potential, but there's tools there that shows 30 goal upside. I like the pick, we need boom or bust guys even if we miss completely with a 1st rounder.

Noesen is a likely NHLer...even if he fails as a top 6er, he's a 3rd liner and has qualities that make him a good bet to be a quality NHLer.

Love Prince and I think despite no certainty as a top 6 player, I think he can play 3rd line on a team that rolls three lines that are offensively capable. He'll take a little while to break in though.

Stone needs another jump in his skating and his NHL prospects look quite good.
Too early to tell on any of them, but you are right that several will definitely play in the NHL even if it isn't top six.

The one guy I think will surprise is Stone. His skating has improved and he really doesn't look out of place at all this year in the WHL. He has size, great hands, works hard, another Smith with significantly more offensive upside.

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12-04-2011, 12:43 PM
  #520
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Originally Posted by mat_sens View Post
For anyone who haven't seen Silfverberg, he is a beast and IMO will be a nice match with Spezza.

Spezza, Michalek, Zibby, Silfverberg, top 6 UFA.....Then the last spot can be fought over (Filatov, Butler, Da Costa, Greening).
Even if he isn't a legitimate top liner, I think he may work his way onto our top line. Spezza always thrived with Alfie's work ethic and the ability to dig pucks and win battles. By the sounds of it...Silfverberg will be similar in that regard.

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12-04-2011, 12:45 PM
  #521
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Even if he isn't a legitimate top liner, I think he may work his way onto our top line. Spezza always thrived with Alfie's work ethic and the ability to dig pucks and win battles. By the sounds of it...Silfverberg will be similar in that regard.
Silfverberg's comparable when he was drafted was Daniel Alfredsson, was it not?

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12-04-2011, 12:45 PM
  #522
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Thing is if only Zibby and Silfverberg become top six NHLers (which IMO are close or already this) we have our future developing right before our eyes. If you go out and sign a top 6 forward next year, the Sens are in pretty good shape and are set for years to come. If even one of Noeses, Prince, JGP or Puempel come even close to a top 6 forward, it's a bonus.

For anyone who haven't seen Silfverberg, he is a beast and IMO will be a nice match with Spezza.

Spezza, Michalek, Zibby, Silfverberg, top 6 UFA.....Then the last spot can be fought over (Filatov, Butler, Da Costa, Greening).
Silfverberg would be in the top six this year had he remained here, he was one of the top 2 or 3 forwards through training camp.

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12-04-2011, 12:48 PM
  #523
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Silfverberg would be in the top six this year had he remained here, he was one of the top 2 or 3 forwards through training camp.
Next year will be a pretty exciting year.

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12-04-2011, 12:53 PM
  #524
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Silfverberg's comparable when he was drafted was Daniel Alfredsson, was it not?
I think Murray said a couple years ago he reminded him of Alfie. Pierre McGuire used Jere Lehtinen last year but I think his knowledge is limited on the player.

KRM, a Swedish poster once said poor man's Alfie...and then saw him play recently after and came back and said "there's nothing poor about him". Said it's unbelievable how far he's come since he played U18 for Sweden.

There was two sides when this guy was picked, a side that saw a good two way 2nd/3rd liner....and a side that saw some real offensive upside. Judging by the words of our scouts after the selection, we saw an offensive player.

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12-04-2011, 12:58 PM
  #525
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Yeah I know they are all bot going to make it as top 6 players but we just 2 or 3 to make it.

And it wouldnt surprise me if most of them make it anyways.

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