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Old
12-04-2011, 10:45 AM
  #151
bhawksladyfan
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Originally Posted by darth5 View Post
Absolutely agree with this. Erhoff propelled Tootoo into the crease and his own goalie. .
I've watched this replay like 10 times. Erhoff hardly propelled him. That poke check and one hand on his hip was not enough force to cause him to run Miller that hard. Tootoo clearly jumped.

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12-04-2011, 10:47 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by bhawksladyfan View Post
I've watched this replay like 10 times. Erhoff hardly propelled him. That poke check and one hand on his hip was not enough force to cause him to run Miller that hard. Tootoo clearly jumped.
Actually you are incorrect

Can't take credit for this, but this post sums it up

Looking at the replay, the only reason Tootoo goes over Miller the way he does is because he's trying to stop. Right as contact is made his skates are on the ice, and Tootoo goes flying over Miller because he managed to lose enough momentum to avoid plowing through him completely.



An unfortunatne play, and probably worth a minor penalty, but it probably wouldn't have been a 5+game if that wasn't Miller on his first game back.

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12-04-2011, 11:10 AM
  #153
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I guess we'll just have to wait and see what Shanny ends up deciding on.

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12-04-2011, 11:26 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
So you wish Guastad would have pointed at Rinne? What purpose would that serve? if I'm not mistaken, these two teams don't even meet again this year...

Please don't come around here telling us that you want Guastad to run our goalie over this incident. I know tensions are high after the Lucic ordeal, but Tootoo didn't mean it. He was driving the net (something that every player should do), was pushed from behind, attempted to avoid the hit by jumping out of the way, and then took punches from Miller afterwards. Even if the homer Sabre announcers were calling for a suspension, it's done.

It's a physical sport. If Miller doesn't want to take a hit he can just move and let the puck go in the net.

And it wasn't his "first game back from a concussion" as the color analyst wrongfully points out. It was his first game back from a neck injury, as Miller points out in an interview here:
http://www.masslive.com/bruins/index...oncussion.html

I liked your post until the Guastad comment. Take that somewhere else. Perhaps your own forum

edit: Tootoo might get suspended because of his history, but it means nothing. I am always the first to point out stupid plays from Jordin Tootoo, but this was a hockey play. It happens.
Kind of illustrates my point. Gaustad points at Lindback, preds players and fans alike kind of shrug. Gaustad points at Rinne and illustrates the fact that he's not wearing a helmet, Nashville is way off its game and Mods are giving multi-paragraph rebuttals.

The Sabres are a team no one thinks will step over the line in any way, which allows the rest of the NHL to take liberties. Lucic illustrated it perfectly and Shanahan played enabler. But indicating to an opponent that their star players are and will be fair game does a lot to put them on edge and gain yourself some room, even if it never actually happens. It's a huge advantage for the Sabres if opponents are thinking twice about getting too close to Miller because there's a chance Paul Gaustad or Patrick Kaleta might go off the handle at one of their stars. You don't have to actually play dirty to make teams afraid of you.

You guys don't have the luxury of remembering this, but in late 2008-2009, Scott Gomez took Miller out of the line-up with an accidentally-on-purpose hit similar to Tootoo's and the Sabres did nothing. One of the first games in 2009-2010 Barrett Jackman got a little too close to Miller and Paul Gaustad pummeled the ever living crap out of him. No one touched Miller for the rest of the year and he won a trophy due in part to it.

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12-04-2011, 11:29 AM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhawksladyfan View Post
I've watched this replay like 10 times. Erhoff hardly propelled him. That poke check and one hand on his hip was not enough force to cause him to run Miller that hard. Tootoo clearly jumped.
Not calling out you in general but I have been amused by the posts I've seen on HF similiar to this post. You can clearly tell the people who have played at least semi competitive hockey in their lives versus the ones who haven't. At the speed and angle Toots was cutting in at any pressure at all can drastically alter your path. I'm not saying Erhoff is to blame. He doesn't want Toots to beat him cleanly so he tries to push him to the outside. Instead he steers Toots right into Miller. Tootoo is clearly jumping to get out of the way but he was already in too close. Ive seen Tootoo the Jump hop maneuver to avoid contact with the goalie several times. It was not intentional.

At worst this is a reckless play by Tootoo and a 2 minute minor but the refs went overboard and the Sabres are still hurt for having there manhood questioned in the media and overreacted emotionally

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12-04-2011, 12:15 PM
  #156
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I guess I fall somewhere in the middle. I think the 5 minute major was justified and but I don't think Tootoo purposely ran Miller with intent. It was still a wreckless and dumb play by Tootoo though. No suspension, but the refs got the call right (the 5 minute major). Game misconduct may have been a little much, but that's what a dirty reputation will get you. I'm fine with it.

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Old
12-04-2011, 12:56 PM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CriminallyVu1gar View Post
Kind of illustrates my point. Gaustad points at Lindback, preds players and fans alike kind of shrug. Gaustad points at Rinne and illustrates the fact that he's not wearing a helmet, Nashville is way off its game and Mods are giving multi-paragraph rebuttals.

The Sabres are a team no one thinks will step over the line in any way, which allows the rest of the NHL to take liberties. Lucic illustrated it perfectly and Shanahan played enabler. But indicating to an opponent that their star players are and will be fair game does a lot to put them on edge and gain yourself some room, even if it never actually happens. It's a huge advantage for the Sabres if opponents are thinking twice about getting too close to Miller because there's a chance Paul Gaustad or Patrick Kaleta might go off the handle at one of their stars. You don't have to actually play dirty to make teams afraid of you.

You guys don't have the luxury of remembering this, but in late 2008-2009, Scott Gomez took Miller out of the line-up with an accidentally-on-purpose hit similar to Tootoo's and the Sabres did nothing. One of the first games in 2009-2010 Barrett Jackman got a little too close to Miller and Paul Gaustad pummeled the ever living crap out of him. No one touched Miller for the rest of the year and he won a trophy due in part to it.
I didn't actually see Guastad point at Lindback. In fact, I didn't know that happened until later on. And me being a mod has nothing to do with my opinion

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12-04-2011, 12:58 PM
  #158
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I thought the on ice calls should have been 5 for charging and a misconduct, not a game misconduct. Gaustad should have gotten 2 for roughing and a misconduct and miller should have gotten 2 for roughing.

there is no winner in the debate.
Pro-Sabre/Team miller/anti-tootoo camp sees nothing but tootoo running miller and had ample time to change direction when ehrhoff pokes the puck away

Team Tootoo/Preds see tootoo try and avoid the goalie best he could, see erhoff poke the puck away with the stick in front of tootoo and his arm on his back and seeing no way for tootoo to do anything to get out of the way. They also see miller pummell tootoo 5-6 times to the head and after the melee act a little bit shaken up.

again, I think tootoo, if he had wanted to run miller, miller would be at baptist right now. but he was wrong to hit him in the crease and deserved his penalty. Miller was wrong and got away with what he did. heck, tootoo hadn't hit the ice before miller threw the first punch. gaustad was wrong in what he did, but did what a teammate should have. And I think Weber was wrong for not engaging a few of thise guys after tootoo gt beaten down by 3-4 guys.

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12-04-2011, 01:52 PM
  #159
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I agree that had Tootoo wanted to hit Miller, Miller wouldn't have been able to throw punches afterwards. After further (muuuuch further) review I don't think Erhoff caused it by pushing Tootoo, but I do think that his positioning limited Tootoo's options enough to cause the collision.

Tootoo got his penalty, and rightfully so. Miller (just like Modano) got away with his actions because it was Tootoo and something questionable had just happened. Guastad wanted to pretend to be tough because his team is just as soft as ours, and his response to Lucic went... well... not as well as he had hoped

It's done.

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12-04-2011, 02:12 PM
  #160
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I don't think I've ever seen a goalie get called for throwing a few slaps with the catching mitt after being run. I'm fine with that. I don't think Miller deserved a penalty.

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12-04-2011, 02:32 PM
  #161
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Goalies get bodies thrown their way every game. I could see a 2 min goalie interference on Tootoo.

But, he was trying to minimize his contact with Miller. It was harmless in terms of potential physical hurt to Miller.

Now, 4 guys whaling on Tootoo at once? Has that ever happened? What if 4 guys were exchanging punches on Sindey Crosby after goalie contact?

I really don't care that much. This team has much bigger problems right now.

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12-04-2011, 03:03 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
I didn't actually see Guastad point at Lindback. In fact, I didn't know that happened until later on. And me being a mod has nothing to do with my opinion
Well, I sit in a relatively "not a ton of trash talking for a hockey game section" and we clearly saw a very angry gaustad threatening to run lindbach and there were a lot of older non verbal fans actively cursing him and the refs. For that he should have received a game misconduct.

As to the rest, I agree with token.
I am a little tired with no one taking up for tootoo as a teammate. I don't think they could have in this game after what happened, but it's an ongoing problem.

On a different subject, it seemed as if we were bouncing like marshmallows off of Sabres all night long and they were all glued to the ice. We just looked very soft as a whole.

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12-04-2011, 03:19 PM
  #163
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If I were TooToo, and I get suspended for this, I file a discrimination law suit. Lucic got no suspension for a worse offense. TooToo is Inuk, a minority. If you penalize TooToo then you are acting in a discriminatory way!

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12-04-2011, 03:35 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CriminallyVu1gar View Post
Kind of illustrates my point. Gaustad points at Lindback, preds players and fans alike kind of shrug. Gaustad points at Rinne and illustrates the fact that he's not wearing a helmet, Nashville is way off its game and Mods are giving multi-paragraph rebuttals.
i don't even know what this means.

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12-04-2011, 05:20 PM
  #165
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If I were the league, I'd be more worried about 4 guys pummeling a defenseless player while he was on the ice, especially a goalie using his equipment as a weapon.

It is a shame that incident happened, because we should be talking about how the Preds failed to score more than 2 goals again.

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12-04-2011, 05:59 PM
  #166
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Tootoo got the penalties that were called him. However, how is there not a third man in penalty that should've been called? How about 4th, 5th and 6th man in? I realize Buffalo is sensitive to Miller returning but 4 guys on top of Tootoo and all they get is a double minor for roughing? I don't get how the refs let that go.

I also don't get how the refs threw Hornqvist into the penalty box for being in front of the net and getting thrown down by Erhoff. I also don't get how this happens to Hornqvist game in and game out and nothing is done to protect him. He was also cheap shotted a few times during the game, once with an elbow, that was let go.

I think the refs had this game get away from them in a bad way. While I don't abhor Tootoo of his actions, the end result was bogus IMO.

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12-04-2011, 08:25 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Tootoo got the penalties that were called him. However, how is there not a third man in penalty that should've been called? How about 4th, 5th and 6th man in? I realize Buffalo is sensitive to Miller returning but 4 guys on top of Tootoo and all they get is a double minor for roughing? I don't get how the refs let that go.

I also don't get how the refs threw Hornqvist into the penalty box for being in front of the net and getting thrown down by Erhoff. I also don't get how this happens to Hornqvist game in and game out and nothing is done to protect him. He was also cheap shotted a few times during the game, once with an elbow, that was let go.

I think the refs had this game get away from them in a bad way. While I don't abhor Tootoo of his actions, the end result was bogus IMO.
I think hornquist kinda gets what he deserves. sat down low a few times last year and the guy is constantly running his mouth, many things that can't be repeated here. watch him in front of the net off the puck. he is earning those shots.

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12-04-2011, 08:45 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
If I were the league, I'd be more worried about 4 guys pummeling a defenseless player while he was on the ice, especially a goalie using his equipment as a weapon.

It is a shame that incident happened, because we should be talking about how the Preds failed to score more than 2 goals again.
which is interesting cause we're like 6th or 7th in the conf in goals scored, I think. problem is this team plays crummy defense. Weber is a far-cry from his Norris-runner-up season. Sute's is playing more O but we're seeing it cost us on D. Nobody is playing like a 2nd pair guy consistently.

I think the biggest problem may be our 3rd line, actually; that group seems to be helpless a lotta' time when we're trying to clear the zone. (Which is probably helping to contribute to your point about only scoring 2 again).

and yes, I think the league should be all over that crew for 4 men in and all they got was Gausted. There are rules and while the league generally looks the other way when the goalie takes a couple swings when he gets bumped, jumping on a player and using equipment as a weapon has to be a penalty, much less enforcing 3rd-man-in, etc.

time to get focused on Phoenix, and figure out how to get O outta' more than just one line most nights.

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Old
12-04-2011, 08:52 PM
  #169
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I lost respect for Miller which I've always liked since he was USA Goalie but that is a sissy approach. What do you expect this is a hard game if you have a injury the other team takes advantages. This isn't a game for little niceties it's a grunge game. That didn't deserve a game misconduct. If that would have happened to Rinne only an interference call would have been made. Third Man you said it right he didn't jump into to jump into him he tried to avoid Miller. Those Buffalo announcers are the worst homers. At least Terry isn't. He's a lot of things but a homer he isn't. He'll(Tootoo) probably get a suspension but that's crap the league is getting too sissified.
Your own coach said he understood why the Sabres reacted the way they did. Their star goaltender came back from concussion and got hit in a way that was very dangerous. Not saying it was intentional or anything, but understand why they reacted the way they did.

Btw, I don't think it warrants a suspension. I also think that things were blown out of proportion because it was Miller coming back from concussion and got hit in a bad way. But that's hockey. Miller never *****ed about being hit, but he wasn't going to let that kind of thing happen again though.

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12-04-2011, 09:00 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by CriminallyVu1gar View Post
Kind of illustrates my point. Gaustad points at Lindback, preds players and fans alike kind of shrug.
Dude. Him talking **** to Lindback pissed me off more than any other thing that psycho did! I was pretty much in my seat until I saw that nonsense, then I wanted to go down there and pummel Gaustad myself!

Luckily I had fakelindback's Twitter feed to make me laugh.

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12-04-2011, 09:46 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by predfan98 View Post
Well, I sit in a relatively "not a ton of trash talking for a hockey game section" and we clearly saw a very angry gaustad threatening to run lindbach and there were a lot of older non verbal fans actively cursing him and the refs. For that he should have received a game misconduct.

As to the rest, I agree with token.
I am a little tired with no one taking up for tootoo as a teammate. I don't think they could have in this game after what happened, but it's an ongoing problem.

On a different subject, it seemed as if we were bouncing like marshmallows off of Sabres all night long and they were all glued to the ice. We just looked very soft as a whole.
Oh I know it happened. I just didn't see it myself. That's all I was saying. This weekend has been pretty busy for me with school work and the like, so I've been multi-tasking a lot. Things have been getting by me

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12-04-2011, 09:49 PM
  #172
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i don't even know what this means.
The poster is saying that Guastad's actions were meant to throw the Preds off of their game is all. I guess. Not really sure what the part about moderators (me) typing up rebuttals has to do with anything, though.

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12-05-2011, 02:45 AM
  #173
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After the Lucic incident, the entire league was lauging at the Sabres for reacting like powderpuffs. For a jock espeically, this was a humiliating experience, particularly for Gaustad. Not only that, but the GM and head coach apparently unloaded on them for not standing up for their goalie.

So what you are going to see for a number of games now is the Sabres trying to validate their manhood. This manifests itself in them overreacting to anything involving Miller.

What's so embarrassing about it, is that everybody knows it's because they had to try and be this way, it didn't happen organicly.

And somebody invoked the Gomez incident, which, if you do your homework, you'll discover that Gomez is/was not a dirty player AND he was actually friendly with Ryan Miller previous to that incident.

Sometimes goalies get run into. It's hockey. I just wish people wouldn't go off the deep end so much over this stuff.

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12-05-2011, 06:32 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
I think hornquist kinda gets what he deserves. sat down low a few times last year and the guy is constantly running his mouth, many things that can't be repeated here. watch him in front of the net off the puck. he is earning those shots.
I know he runs his mouth but to get cross checked and thrown to the ice repeatedly with no back up? Once the whistle is blown, anything after, guys should be going to the box.

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12-05-2011, 09:26 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I know he runs his mouth but to get cross checked and thrown to the ice repeatedly with no back up? Once the whistle is blown, anything after, guys should be going to the box.
not arguing that at all. I was merely stating he is not an angel out there.

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