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Old
12-04-2011, 08:36 AM
  #51
nyhabsfan
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You have to this beyond this year as well, Gill will be gone, probably Spatch so their will be opening. Plus the GM will NEED to go out and get another physical Dman.... And they had better freakin sign Georges to a long term deal at 2-2.3 million.
Habs have a ridiculous policy of not discussing contracts during the season!

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12-04-2011, 08:46 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by MrNasty View Post
They tried to move him last year at the deadline so I think they will move him if the right offer comes along. look back at last years games and they played him a lot heading into he deadline and then as soon as it passed he was benched. He has been outplayed by Emelin and Diaz.
How did they try to move him at the deadline? That's the first I hear of that.

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12-04-2011, 08:50 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
You have to this beyond this year as well, Gill will be gone, probably Spatch so their will be opening. Plus the GM will NEED to go out and get another physical Dman.... And they had better freakin sign Georges to a long term deal at 2-2.3 million.
Habs have a ridiculous policy of not discussing contracts during the season!
Where have you seen that policy?

Gorges can't be signed until January 1st and neither can Campoli as they are on 1 year deals...applies to AK and Gill also.

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Old
12-04-2011, 09:00 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by smon View Post
Certainly possible given the logjam. Almost likely, even. But the conundrum is whether he will actually get fair value back. I highly doubt this is his peak as a player, he can and will be better.
Do you remember the outrage when Halak was traded? The Habs didn't get enough for their playoff magician?

I'm sure you're aware that the Habs have drafted two Dmen who have the potential of becoming at least as good as Weber. Do you know what I'd take for him? A prospect or a pick who might turn into something the Habs will need in the future, a decent goaltender. Wouldn't that please you? If not, you overvalue Weber.

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12-04-2011, 09:03 AM
  #55
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He was solid earlier in the year.

Theories:
He started having problems after playing some games at forward, maybe the positioning changes are tough?
Maybe he is getting tougher matchups?
Maybe he just can't handle big players yet (Diaz appears to)?

The System tends to put the D in vulnerable position and lead to injuries (I guess Vancouver plays a similar system). The habs will need 8-10 guys who can play.

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12-04-2011, 09:06 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Do you remember the outrage when Halak was traded? The Habs didn't get enough for their playoff magician?

I'm sure you're aware that the Habs have drafted two Dmen who have the potential of becoming at least as good as Weber. Do you know what I'd take for him? A prospect or a pick who might turn into something the Habs will need in the future, a decent goaltender. Wouldn't that please you? If not, you overvalue Weber.
Sure, but keep in mind his junior stats were better than Subban's. He may not have peaked; have to hope Subban hasn't (and is in a dip).

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12-04-2011, 09:08 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Do you remember the outrage when Halak was traded? The Habs didn't get enough for their playoff magician?

I'm sure you're aware that the Habs have drafted two Dmen who have the potential of becoming at least as good as Weber. Do you know what I'd take for him? A prospect or a pick who might turn into something the Habs will need in the future, a decent goaltender. Wouldn't that please you? If not, you overvalue Weber.
The Halak trade was forced by two things 1-both goalies were RFA's and wanted #1 jobs 2-there is only one net so they both can't play.

As I have said many times, it would be dumb to rush and trade Weber unless the return is too good to refuse(1st rounder or comparable) as we have older d-men and others that will be UFA's plus we NEED depth back there.

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Old
12-04-2011, 09:11 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcyhabs View Post
He was solid earlier in the year.

Theories:
He started having problems after playing some games at forward, maybe the positioning changes are tough?
Maybe he is getting tougher matchups?
Maybe he just can't handle big players yet (Diaz appears to)?

The System tends to put the D in vulnerable position and lead to injuries (I guess Vancouver plays a similar system). The habs will need 8-10 guys who can play.
The Habs system protects d-men, not put them in vulnerable spots. The forwards collapse further down low than with most teams.

A more logical explaination is that he hit a rough patch, even veterans do that(see Cole and Cammalleri last game).

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Old
12-04-2011, 09:43 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
The Halak trade was forced by two things 1-both goalies were RFA's and wanted #1 jobs 2-there is only one net so they both can't play.

As I have said many times, it would be dumb to rush and trade Weber unless the return is too good to refuse(1st rounder or comparable) as we have older d-men and others that will be UFA's plus we NEED depth back there.
Weber is not even as good defensively as Diaz. Your beard will turn white before the Habs get a first rounder or equivalent for him. Markov, Subban, Emelin, Diaz, and St-Denis are secure. The Dmen who could turn UFA are Gill, Spacek, Gorges, and Campoli. Campoli should be easy to re-sign. Gill and Spacek have reached their outer limits and would be grateful for a chance to come back at a reduced salary.The only one I'd be concerned about is Gorges and I'm fairly confident he'll return despite the fact that he's on a one year contract.

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Old
12-04-2011, 09:45 AM
  #60
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Kid played with 3:33 and still has an assist you want to trade him?

Weber is supercalifragilisticeplalidocious. Guy is now praetertranssubstantiationalistically transforming. And you all will soon bababadalgharaghtakamminapronnkonnbronntonnepronnt
uonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordeenenthurnu k.

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Old
12-04-2011, 09:56 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Markov, Subban, Emelin, Diaz, and St-Denis are secure. ...
I agree with your post but I have a question. St-Denis's is safe??

Why?

A 25 (or so) year old who had played an NHL game until this year....

His play has been ok, but the only reasons he should be in the NHL is if there are absolutely no prospects with any upside and the Habs are so far over the cap they need a minimum wage player to fill the roster with the least expensive option.

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Old
12-04-2011, 11:25 AM
  #62
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I disagree. He hasn't been playing his best but hes a valuable asset worth developing and I think the club sees it that way too. Why trade him for spare parts when we can keep him develop him and then get something for him or just keep him? He has talent and he just needs development time. Remember Pacioretty wasn't so hot either for his first ~100 games in the NHL. Weber just needs time. Don't trade him away and let him blossom elsewhere. We've put in 90% of the development here. Trading this asset away would be a very stupid move imo. Diaz would make a lot more sense because they got him for nothing, he's already 25 and doesn't look like he's ever going to be a #3+, probably #4 at best but realistically best suited as a #5-6. Get a pick for him. I think Weber has a much higher offensive ceiling and even has the tools to become equally as good as Diaz defensively. Emelin at this point is slowly moving into untouchable range. I like this guy more and more the more I see him play.

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Old
12-04-2011, 11:31 AM
  #63
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Weber is def. worth something in a package, but def. won't be the main component

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Old
12-04-2011, 11:38 AM
  #64
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Weber ain't going anywhere - Diaz and St. Denis to Hamilton.

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Old
12-04-2011, 12:39 PM
  #65
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Funny !

He has good stats being young, then has a slower and less recognized development than PK but still plays in the big team. Still being useful and scoring and assisting. Useful in PP.

this year he is being played with the highest TOI, then low, then used as forward, then back to defense with always the same rumors ... when markow and Gill and ... and ... will back ... he will be a forward ... or has nothing to worry ... but de facto plays forward ... and suddenly something is wrong with him ?

1) What is wrong with the ones who do not understand why something is wrong with him ?
2) What is wrong with the ones who think a youngster ... after the above mentioned sequences should be traded ?? being the best thing that can be done for the Habs ? (i hope they have no business to run !)

The guy is badly managed. He should be spoken to with clarity and transparency. Not lied and promised things and done the opposite !

And he will flourish again.
Because he is a beautiful flower. With the Habs or without the Habs. Habs have to start taking care of their garden.
maybe enough flowers flourished outside of the Habs garden.

The advantage when you grow your own flowers is that you can have them for cheaper than after they were given to the dogs !!
Streit was ready for a 2.5 mio ... NYI paid 4,1 mio !!

This is how you build teams cheaper than by buying them ! and with the salary cap ... useless to say that it is the key for differentiation.

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Old
12-05-2011, 11:57 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by torero View Post
Funny !

He has good stats being young, ....
This is how you build teams cheaper than by buying them ! and with the salary cap ... useless to say that it is the key for differentiation.
If you are Swiss I can understand why you are suck a believer in Weber, but the questions need to be asked, how long do you have to wait for a player to develop before you move on o the next prospect?

How many errors are you willing to ignore while he develops?

How many times can a player remain a prospect? At one point he has to show that he is a "no doubt" NHL player.

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Old
12-05-2011, 01:13 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
The Halak trade was forced by two things 1-both goalies were RFA's and wanted #1 jobs 2-there is only one net so they both can't play.

As I have said many times, it would be dumb to rush and trade Weber unless the return is too good to refuse(1st rounder or comparable) as we have older d-men and others that will be UFA's plus we NEED depth back there.

And on what planet will ANY team trade that much for a scrub like Weber? 1> you will get nothing of the sort for a soft player like weber who has problems on D
2> if you get anything of value back for him, you trade him, it's that simple..we're already too small up front, last thing we need are more small/soft d guys
3> you already have Diaz who is basically the same exact player
4> I'd trade both Diaz/Weber for different players, as I would prefer D men who are more defensively responsible and bigger in size to clear the crease for Price...


...I'm still laughing over thinking someone would think Weber would fetch a 1st rounder or 'comparable' ..lol

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Old
12-05-2011, 01:17 PM
  #68
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1) He is a "no doubt" NHL player, he's just not being used properly.
2) He isn't a scrub like some of you try to claim.

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Old
12-05-2011, 01:27 PM
  #69
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I'd trade Weber soon before his value gets any lower. The more he plays, the more mistakes he seems to make. He had a stretch where he played well, but now he's playing stupid and making the same mistakes he made the last 3 years.

Trade him for a draft pick or a big, rugged grinder to play on the 4th line or another d-man that is rough and tough.

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12-05-2011, 01:30 PM
  #70
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Hes just going throug a rough stretch playing his worst hockey he will com around though.

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Old
12-05-2011, 01:30 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Pleky Roks View Post
I'd trade Weber soon before his value gets any lower. The more he plays, the more mistakes he seems to make. He had a stretch where he played well, but now he's playing stupid and making the same mistakes he made the last 3 years.

Trade him for a draft pick or a big, rugged grinder to play on the 4th line or another d-man that is rough and tough.
Can it be lower than now ? The guy has to play on a 4th line , and about 4 minutes a game !

With all the UFA d-men the habs are gonna loose next July, better keep him than give him away.

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Old
12-05-2011, 01:54 PM
  #72
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Since this failed to get noticed, let me repeat:

He's 23 years old.

He is the SECOND YOUNGEST defenceman on the team.

In order of age, youngest to oldest:

1) Subban - 22
2) Weber - 23
3) Emelin - 25
4) St. Denis - 25
5) Diaz - 25
6) Gorges - 27
7) Campoli - 27
8) Markov - 32
9) Gill - 36
10) Spacek - 37

Just because Weber has been in the organization and on our radars longer than St. Denis and Diaz and actually with the club longer than guys like Emelin, doesn't magically morph him into a grizzled veteran.

He's young. He has great core skills that cannot be taught (offensive awareness) and has shown in brief stretches that he can be a useful all around defenceman, or at least more than adequate enough in his own end to keep him on the ice and enable his offensive game.

The only thing he's done wrong is not even him. No one, I suspect, expected Diaz to step in this season and play so well. Simple as that.

Go watch a game from earlier this year, it's crazy how much better he's gotten in his own end in just three months. The last few weeks are a step back, I agree, but you don't trade prospects you invested 5 years in developing just as they're coming into their own because... well... I have no idea why.

The only reason to move Weber is if the team decides he has to go to the minors and he won't clear waivers. In that case, move him to get some return. Otherwise, people need to take a deep breath.

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Old
12-05-2011, 03:45 PM
  #73
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With 10 defenseman on roaster 3 injured Looking at our defense the guy I would trade would be Spacek.

I hope most of you guys out there know defensemen hit their prime when they are about 27-28 years old. Defense is not an easy position to play even more so the way Jack Martin wants them to play.

Spacek is on his last leg and will not be resigned Webber is 23 and is he learning! I will never get rid of Webber except if you are getting a better player in return!

And guys are you not fed up with all the trades we have made to get rid of our prospects in the past couple of years?

That is what you are asking for now! Give the kid sometime! He will payoff!

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Old
12-06-2011, 05:05 AM
  #74
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23 is no age for a defender, not everyone starts like Subban. Some need more time. He has potential, he showed it in the first weeks of the season where he was very solid. And he's cheap and has another year on this contract. Spacek may be better, but not nearly 3 million $ better. Better keep Weber, trade Spacek and use this cap-space for more offensive talent.

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Old
12-06-2011, 05:21 AM
  #75
andy28
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Weber is just a young dman. D men often take a bit longer to develop. It's a frustrating situation for us right now, because we are watching a d-squad that as a whole lacks experience.

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