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Old
12-06-2011, 05:49 AM
  #76
Lions999
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Its his 4th year here and he should have won a starting position already and he hasn`t. He should have been a regular on the blue line this year...

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12-06-2011, 08:20 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by xposbrad View Post
And on what planet will ANY team trade that much for a scrub like Weber? 1> you will get nothing of the sort for a soft player like weber who has problems on D
2> if you get anything of value back for him, you trade him, it's that simple..we're already too small up front, last thing we need are more small/soft d guys
3> you already have Diaz who is basically the same exact player
4> I'd trade both Diaz/Weber for different players, as I would prefer D men who are more defensively responsible and bigger in size to clear the crease for Price...


...I'm still laughing over thinking someone would think Weber would fetch a 1st rounder or 'comparable' ..lol
Instead of being all the way out in left field, why don't you learn how to read.

I never said anybody would give us a 1st or comparable player, I said that is the only way I would trade him.

You underrate him because he isn't 6'3" 220lbs. I agree we will need another big stay at home d-man if Gill walks, but that doesn't mean you dump Weber cheap. He is a solid player, has a cheap contract and he is still young. We will need to get younger on defense next year with Gill, Spacek and possibly Campoli moving on.

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12-06-2011, 08:24 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Lions999 View Post
Its his 4th year here and he should have won a starting position already and he hasn`t. He should have been a regular on the blue line this year...
It's his first year full time in the NHL. He did have a regular spot on the blueline until the last few games. Overall he's made nice progress so far this year, but of counse the negative posters love to jump on the fact that he's struggled for a few games.

I guess we should also dump Pcaioretty and Subban since they have both struggled the last few weeks

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12-06-2011, 08:39 AM
  #79
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Tough call with Weber...

Awful training camp, starts as a 4th line forward then excels on D for a dozen games.
For the last dozen games, he's been awful defensively but surprisingly bad on the PP also.
He's now below Diaz and Emelin on the depth chart.

But...

He's young and puck moving defensemen with a shot like him aren't readily available.
Spacek, Gill and Campoli are probably not back next year.
Markov is questionable at best, even for next year.
He seems to have a good attitude and isn't a bad fourth liner in a pinch.

We may not miss Weber this year once Spacek and Campoli are back but may miss him more next year. Campoli could probably be resigned on the cheap if he works out however.

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12-06-2011, 08:49 AM
  #80
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Too small next...

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12-07-2011, 12:31 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
It's his first year full time in the NHL. He did have a regular spot on the blueline until the last few games. Overall he's made nice progress so far this year, but of counse the negative posters love to jump on the fact that he's struggled for a few games.

I guess we should also dump Pcaioretty and Subban since they have both struggled the last few weeks
Another great game by Weber. If progress is considered regressing than he's doing amazing. He's already being shopped around with no luck, and he was benched again last game. With all his mediocre offensive talent, he still will never make a good dman, he's a poor man's MAB. He's struggled lately on the PP, and his man on man coverage is horrible, in front of the net he's awful. I He will be gone by the end of the year, for another team's reject or a 4-6th round pick.

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12-07-2011, 12:53 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by xposbrad View Post
Another great game by Weber. If progress is considered regressing than he's doing amazing. He's already being shopped around with no luck, and he was benched again last game. With all his mediocre offensive talent, he still will never make a good dman, he's a poor man's MAB. He's struggled lately on the PP, and his man on man coverage is horrible, in front of the net he's awful. I He will be gone by the end of the year, for another team's reject or a 4-6th round pick.
That's a great development model, let's throw away our kids as soon as they struggle for a few games...good call Mike Milbury!

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12-07-2011, 04:09 PM
  #83
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yup..instead of working with him and helping him, since hes struggling he must be traded. Another young player we give up way too soon and will blossom elsewhere...sigh..

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12-07-2011, 04:20 PM
  #84
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I look at his skillset and I don't see anything special. Never was impressed.

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12-07-2011, 04:43 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by DaHabMan View Post
yup..instead of working with him and helping him, since hes struggling he must be traded. Another young player we give up way too soon and will blossom elsewhere...sigh..
I would give him more time and ice time to prove himself. + he is a RH d-man, a rarety in the NHL. I am sure he can handle PP with Subban on the left point as the shooter.

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12-07-2011, 04:45 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by m00ks View Post
I look at his skillset and I don't see anything special. Never was impressed.
I don't think anybody is suggesting he is special. but he has the tools to be a #3-4 PMD NHL d-man in the mold of Zidlicki, Goligoski, Streit, Timonen etc

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12-07-2011, 04:54 PM
  #87
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Hopefully he is movable.. A late pick is what I think we will get for..

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12-07-2011, 04:57 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by DaHabMan View Post
yup..instead of working with him and helping him, since hes struggling he must be traded. Another young player we give up way too soon and will blossom elsewhere...sigh..
not a chance.. the 1st role of a defenseman is to be reliable defensively, what he struggles to.. Wber is nothing special, no need to worry about his future if we trade him, really not a big lost.. Diaz is already miles ahead..

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12-07-2011, 05:00 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
I would give him more time and ice time to prove himself. + he is a RH d-man, a rarety in the NHL. I am sure he can handle PP with Subban on the left point as the shooter.
i would keep doing what we did last year...give him limited ice-time and put him in a position to succeed. right now, obviously his confidence is shot but if martin uses him wisely, he can get it back up. The guy doesnt even have 100 games yet in the league and people are expecting him to be a top 4 dman right away. give him time. he wasnt a first round pick or was highly touted coming up. its gonna take a few years.

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12-07-2011, 05:14 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I don't think anybody is suggesting he is special. but he has the tools to be a #3-4 PMD NHL d-man in the mold of Zidlicki, Goligoski, Streit, Timonen etc
I disagree. He has his shot. That's it. His vision, decision making, puck control and specially skating ability are all lacking. I really don't see what the hype is with this kid.

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12-07-2011, 05:18 PM
  #91
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if habs do move him, it had better be in a deal where we clearly come out on top...

Weber will grow into an excellent player, just needs a bit more time getting used to NHL game. people seem to miss the fact that he's played a grand total of 77 NHL games.

dmen generally take a bit longer to round out their game at pro level, by the time he's at 200-250 NHL games, I bet you're looking at a 30+pt PMD who can easily handle himself as a 4-5 dman on the depth chart.

his offensive skill (skating, passing, shooting, PP) is obvious, but I see him as being much better defensively than people give him credit for. As he fine tunes his reads and defensive zone coverage, that part of his game will improve, his overall confidence will improve, and your left with a much better defensive version of MAB (or, Brian Rafalski...)

that is a valuable commodity.

obviously he shouldn't be "untouchable", but if they move him in a deal to get some marginal vet to help us in the short term, or dump him for some apparent "lateral" prospect who has more waiver-elibility left, I will be PISSED!

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12-07-2011, 05:19 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by m00ks View Post
I disagree. He has his shot. That's it. His vision, decision making, puck control and specially skating ability are all lacking. I really don't see what the hype is with this kid.
we must be watching very very different games...

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12-07-2011, 05:29 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
we must be watching very very different games...
We've established that you think he has a premiere top 4 PMD upside while I thought he was a fringe bottom pairing PP specialist. If the kid showed me something, maybe I'd see it your way.

I'm probably considered to be of the optimist/apologist contingency and I still think he has nothing substantial to offer if he isn't scoring on the PP.

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12-07-2011, 05:56 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by m00ks View Post
We've established that you think he has a premiere top 4 PMD upside while I thought he was a fringe bottom pairing PP specialist. If the kid showed me something, maybe I'd see it your way.

I'm probably considered to be of the optimist/apologist contingency and I still think he has nothing substantial to offer if he isn't scoring on the PP.
Thre is nothing basically wrong with Weber. He is still pretty young and inexperienced.

The problem is that we have too many d-men of the same size and skills. The arrival of Diaz didn't help him. Campoli and Spacek will be back soon, and right now, he doesn't look too good for him.

But, please, Jacques, don't put him on the 4th line anymore !

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12-07-2011, 06:12 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
we must be watching very very different games...
I don't know which games you're watching...

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12-07-2011, 06:36 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by DaHabMan View Post
i would keep doing what we did last year...give him limited ice-time and put him in a position to succeed. right now, obviously his confidence is shot but if martin uses him wisely, he can get it back up. The guy doesnt even have 100 games yet in the league and people are expecting him to be a top 4 dman right away. give him time. he wasnt a first round pick or was highly touted coming up. its gonna take a few years.
In January the Habs will have Markov, Gorges, Subban, Emelin, Diaz, Gill, Spacek, Woe-ber, Campoli, St-Denis, Price, Budaj, Plekanec, Desharnais, Eller, Nokelainen, Gomez, Pacioretty, Kostitsyn, Cole, Gionta, Cammalleri, Moen, White, Darche, and perhaps Leblanc. That comes to 26, 3 over the limit. What would you do to preserve Woe-ber?

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12-07-2011, 06:41 PM
  #97
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St-Denis, Leblanc and Diaz are liable to be sent down. Weber is very close to being traded.

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12-07-2011, 06:43 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I don't think anybody is suggesting he is special. but he has the tools to be a #3-4 PMD NHL d-man in the mold of Zidlicki, Goligoski, Streit, Timonen etc
Nope, not in my opinion. His positioning is terrible, he's weak as they come and his offense is over rated. With a team that already has a bunch of weaker dman, he is redundant and there is no place on a competitive NHL roster for him and Diaz. Diaz is better, weber is expendable.

By the time he is ready for full time duty, if he ever gets there, we will be looking at graduates from Hamilton who will pass him on the depth charts.

A number 3 or 4 dman, where do you get this, he gets scratched or moved to forward because his defence is terrible, he can't crack the lineup on a regular basis of a team that is decimated by injuries. I usually don't give JM personnel decisions all that much weight, because he often leaves me scratching my head, but weber has given him no choice.

I think he could be a 5th dman pp specialist down the line, but not with the current corp that is as soft as they come.

He has shown very little signs of improvement to this point. I wouldn't give him away and frankly he holds very little value, but I don't see where he fits short term or down the road. If we go the rebuild route, fine, keep him, if we want to win now, he's the odd man out. When everyone is healthy, he has no place.

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12-07-2011, 06:51 PM
  #99
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If you are Swiss I can understand why you are suck a believer in Weber, but the questions need to be asked, how long do you have to wait for a player to develop before you move on o the next prospect?

How many errors are you willing to ignore while he develops?

How many times can a player remain a prospect? At one point he has to show that he is a "no doubt" NHL player.
Players on the defense can take longer to develop. It may be frustrating ... but this is how it is.

now MTL has him for 3 years at a 800K a year ? +/- that !!
trade him now, nobody will want him ! nobody ! and you may break him !!
that is a lose-lose trade !
He will be better in some months again. Then or you trade him or you let him play. I bet that he will be played because he is a horse from the MTL ranch !! and because of that, if he excels in 3 years, Mtl will get him at 2.5 mio instead of 4 or more !!

And thi is how teams make a difference in a world where salaries are capped.

You can play the loser game and sell and buy players .... these teams will be paying high prices for all players.

He may be a better business than Price for exemple !! ( i am talking business, not hockey ! )

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12-07-2011, 07:03 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by torero View Post
Players on the defense can take longer to develop. It may be frustrating ... but this is how it is.

now MTL has him for 3 years at a 800K a year ? +/- that !!
trade him now, nobody will want him ! nobody ! and you may break him !!
that is a lose-lose trade !
He will be better in some months again. Then or you trade him or you let him play. I bet that he will be played because he is a horse from the MTL ranch !! and because of that, if he excels in 3 years, Mtl will get him at 2.5 mio instead of 4 or more !!

And thi is how teams make a difference in a world where salaries are capped.

You can play the loser game and sell and buy players .... these teams will be paying high prices for all players.

He may be a better business than Price for exemple !! ( i am talking business, not hockey ! )
Why will Woe-ber be better in a few months? And won't Diaz, Emelin, and St-Denis also be better in that time frame?

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