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Old
12-07-2011, 09:57 AM
  #26
The Fear Boners
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Originally Posted by MAB4Norris View Post
As much as I like crying wolf or shouting fire, those two options aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. It is possible we could go for route A around now, trade for a good roster player to see if that helps and/or a goalie, and if we're still in the basement at the deadline, move out some dead wood. Never give up on a season this early in.
Its the catch 22 - we have sacrificed so much of the future in the past few years that... do we really want to do this? Or should we wait it out just a little bit, see if we can recover a bit and play to potential, and sneak in the playoffs?

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12-07-2011, 10:40 AM
  #27
Tokala
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Originally Posted by Genius Brian Lawton View Post
Its the catch 22 - we have sacrificed so much of the future in the past few years that... do we really want to do this? Or should we wait it out just a little bit, see if we can recover a bit and play to potential, and sneak in the playoffs?
As much as it sucks to watch this team this season, I'm OK with riding it out. I thought that last year they'd be fighting for the 8th spot in the playoffs. I'll chalk the playoffs up as a stroke of luck. I'm kinda looking at this season as what was supposed to be last season.

Maybe call some guys up for a look and make some trades for roster type guys. I don't see making a blockbuster trade. This team needs to finally wait and develop a #1 goalie instead of always trading for a bandage that doesn't work.

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12-07-2011, 10:50 AM
  #28
Benders Lindyhop
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^^^^

What Tokala said, almost exactly.

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Old
12-07-2011, 11:34 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by killabee88 View Post
If route B is taken I'm not saying clean house, but knock out some cobwebs. Try and move Ohlund to a contender. Every team wants a D man right now and veteran guy like Ohlund might fetch a second or third. The reason to move him is less to get a return, more to clear cap space for the summer. Consider moving Malone as well. I like Malone but that cap space is better spent this offseason. So stack up on picks, flesh out depth in the draft, and make a few trades if it is opportune, but keep Vinny, MSTL, Stammer, Connolly, and Hedmen.

Use the space of Kubina/Ohlund/Malone off the books and take a run at Suter/Parise or another fresh UFA; but overall: get YOUNG and take a shot next year. Tampa shouldnt be that hard of a sell anymore. Vinik is doing great things with the organization, SFY has more respect from players/the hockey world than almost any GM out there; the weather is 10000X better than Edmonton, Toronto or Montreal; there isn't insane media pressure like some of the big markets, and there are even favourable tax laws in Florida. Landing a guy like Suter, especially since he is American and doesn't have heart strings to a Canadian/North east city, is perfectly feasible.

Option B) still means trading for a goalie tho. FA market is thin.

Thoughts?
What makes you think anyone would want to take on Ohlund's contract? He's signed for four more years after this season, is 35 years old and is constantly plagued by injuries. Not many teams can take on Malone's contract either, so we better hope the salary that would be coming our way is better than what Malone provides us.

Kubina and Clark hold more value because of their expiring contracts than Ohlund or Malone. Money, contract length, organizational stability and cup contender will all be priorities for Suter if he becomes a UFA; not the American influence as you are suggesting.

IMO, if SFY makes any moves this year, it'll most likely be for a young goaltender like Bernier/Schneider and hope our team can turn it around and find some confidence playing in front of them.

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12-07-2011, 11:56 AM
  #30
Felonious Python
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genius Brian Lawton View Post
Its the catch 22 - we have sacrificed so much of the future in the past few years that... do we really want to do this? Or should we wait it out just a little bit, see if we can recover a bit and play to potential, and sneak in the playoffs?
Not doing anything is being complicit in losing. Sneaking into the playoffs isn't good enough. That's not the goal. Winning the cup is the goal, and teams that 'sneak in' never win it.

SFY has shown that he knows what players are worth. When they're not on the Lightning, very little.

If we had ridden out last season with Smellis, where would we be today? All I know is this thread wouldn't exist.

We were a goaltender and a defenseman away from competing last year. We're a goaltender and a defenseman away from competing this year.


Last edited by Felonious Python: 12-07-2011 at 12:09 PM.
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Old
12-07-2011, 03:31 PM
  #31
The Fear Boners
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
Not doing anything is being complicit in losing. Sneaking into the playoffs isn't good enough. That's not the goal. Winning the cup is the goal, and teams that 'sneak in' never win it.

SFY has shown that he knows what players are worth. When they're not on the Lightning, very little.

If we had ridden out last season with Smellis, where would we be today? All I know is this thread wouldn't exist.

We were a goaltender and a defenseman away from competing last year. We're a goaltender and a defenseman away from competing this year.
Agreed, but again, we also have to look long term.

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12-07-2011, 03:41 PM
  #32
Felonious Python
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Originally Posted by Genius Brian Lawton View Post
Agreed, but again, we also have to look long term.
We can win the cup then, but let's win it this year too.

Although you will not believe it, we just need a goalie.

Turco is still available for free. If he's an upgrade, I'd sign him.


Last edited by Felonious Python: 12-07-2011 at 04:19 PM.
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Old
12-07-2011, 04:31 PM
  #33
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Nah, Turco is done.

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Old
12-07-2011, 04:57 PM
  #34
Felonious Python
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Originally Posted by LightningStrikes View Post
Nah, Turco is done.
How do you know that?

I'm not saying sign him right now, but get his ass in a scrimmage, and see what he can do.

Manny Legace, same drill.

I mean, look at Marty. That was a guy who coaches and managers said 'no, he will not make it', until a Cheeto encrusted thumb came across his scouting report and decided to give the little guy a shot.

What I'm getting at is that we should give pretty much anyone a chance to show they can play 60 minutes without thinking it's the first period when it's the third. Or be randomly startled by the fact that they're wearing goalie gear.

I have nothing against goalies who have played with a rover, as my post history will indicate, but I do have a problem when it limits their abilities.


Last edited by Felonious Python: 12-07-2011 at 05:14 PM.
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Old
12-07-2011, 05:24 PM
  #35
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While I agree with a few line of thoughts here, I think its most likely we shore up the 3-4 defensemen slots this year, pushing MAB and Kubina further down the depth chart. Clark and Gilroy are ok as 5-6, MAB as PP specialist 7th. Brewer is ideally slotted #3 in a good defense and now that it looks like Ohlund isn't coming back anytime soon, we need someone else to play with Brewer.

Suter would be best case scenario but Nashville has the cash to resign him and Weber, but not much else after that. He would be your immediate #1 and Hedman #2.

We need more mobile, stick checking type defensemen to play this system. The heavy footed Kubina's, Ohlund's, and in retrospect Smaby do not fit this year.

If we could flip Purcell and/or Downie and Garon for Schneider, I'd do it in a heartbeat, as it also creates room for Connolly/Ashton on scoring lines next year.

We still have a shot to complete this year, as last years team seemed to click after the trading deadline. No need to blow up the ship, but need adequate injury replacements for Kubina and Ohlund.

I'd give Turco a shot too, at least he can assist in clearing the defensive zone.


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Old
12-07-2011, 06:04 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningStrikes View Post
Nah, Turco is done.
Turco is an enigma. He played great then played like crap in Chicago. I honestly wouldn't mind signing him on and seeing what he's capable of for the remainder of the year.

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Old
12-07-2011, 06:11 PM
  #37
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I don't know about Turco. He had a good year for Dallas in 2009-2010 but totally failed in Chicago. He kind of was the scapegoat for the hangover after the Cup and the subsequent draining of the team (which isn't anywhere near his fault) too though so I don't know. He'd be nothing more than another band-aid though, which isn't exactly enticing.

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12-07-2011, 06:38 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by The Downie View Post
I don't know about Turco. He had a good year for Dallas in 2009-2010 but totally failed in Chicago. He kind of was the scapegoat for the hangover after the Cup and the subsequent draining of the team (which isn't anywhere near his fault) too though so I don't know. He'd be nothing more than another band-aid though, which isn't exactly enticing.
Roloson was a band-aid. Sometimes band-aids fall off in the shower and you need to put on a new one.

Basically we're risking an infection.

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Old
12-07-2011, 07:24 PM
  #39
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Could be difficult to get a Dman and Goalie like they did last year. Teams saw what happened when we got those last year. Secondly, who does the team have to give up to get a solid Dman and Goalie this season?

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Old
12-07-2011, 08:18 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by BoltzBalla View Post
Could be difficult to get a Dman and Goalie like they did last year. Teams saw what happened when we got those last year. Secondly, who does the team have to give up to get a solid Dman and Goalie this season?
We'll see if/when Ohlund sees the light of day again how much we need a defenseman. (not saying we won't, but unless they've stuck a fork in Ohlund, any move has to be in the context that he will eventually return.)

I'd also not worried about what the Lightning would give for another goalie, unless they really, really want to go big this time. Then I could see someone like Anton But on the move, and that's not a prospect you just give up on IMO.

As long as Paul Holmgren is employed as a general manager, there will always be a team for SFY to plunder.

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12-07-2011, 08:30 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Genius Brian Lawton View Post
Its the catch 22 - we have sacrificed so much of the future in the past few years that... do we really want to do this? Or should we wait it out just a little bit, see if we can recover a bit and play to potential, and sneak in the playoffs?
What really have we sacrificed?

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Old
12-07-2011, 08:45 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
Although you will not believe it, we just need a goalie.
Wishful thinking, unless the goalie we are acquiring is Thomas

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Old
12-07-2011, 09:35 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
We'll see if/when Ohlund sees the light of day again how much we need a defenseman. (not saying we won't, but unless they've stuck a fork in Ohlund, any move has to be in the context that he will eventually return.)

I'd also not worried about what the Lightning would give for another goalie, unless they really, really want to go big this time. Then I could see someone like Anton But on the move, and that's not a prospect you just give up on IMO.

As long as Paul Holmgren is employed as a general manager, there will always be a team for SFY to plunder.
Hasn't Anton been kind of written off like all the other old draft picks? Kazionovs etc?

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12-07-2011, 10:27 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
What these stats aren't showing is confidence. Like the confidence you have when you're playing in front of a goalie you know you can rely on.
I've always felt this is true, but I do think there's more to it with this team this year. Last year, to this point in the season, the overall goaltending was at .875 sv% with 744 shots against. This year it's slightly better, at .895 sv% with 830 shots against and fewer goals against. The goalies do need to improve, but they are doing better with less help in front of them, compared to last year.

The team last year won games in spite of their goalies and did so because they had a better power play and generated more offense (891 SOG last year vs 777 SOG this year) and more goals as a result.

Am I correct in saying the team should have been less confident in front of the goalies last year? Because if they were less confident last year, then why did they have more shots for and fewer shots against to this point last year?

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12-07-2011, 10:30 PM
  #45
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Hasn't Anton been kind of written off like all the other old draft picks? Kazionovs etc?
He's joking...I hope.

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Old
12-07-2011, 10:30 PM
  #46
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Sooo apparently Bobby Mac has said Carolina has had discussions about moving Staal and/or Ward considering they are aways from competing especially after realignment. And them going full rebuild.

If thats the case, and with Carolina not having to care about us after this year, what say you on getting Cam Ward here....

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12-07-2011, 10:43 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Sooo apparently Bobby Mac has said Carolina has had discussions about moving Staal and/or Ward considering they are aways from competing especially after realignment. And them going full rebuild.

If thats the case, and with Carolina not having to care about us after this year, what say you on getting Cam Ward here....
I'm watching and he did not say that. In fact he even started off by saying "Now make sure everyone reads my lips, I am not saying the Carolina Hurricanes are trading Eric Staal or Cam Ward, and I'm not saying they have had any discussions about doing that..."

He just said it may be something they might have to consider with a small budget and not a lot of flexibility, plus being in a tougher conference starting next year, that they may need to consider trading one or both for a longer term fix.

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12-07-2011, 10:45 PM
  #48
IdealisticSniper
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Originally Posted by LateNightOilerFan View Post
I'm watching and he did not say that. In fact he even started off by saying "Now make sure everyone reads my lips, I am not saying the Carolina Hurricanes are trading Eric Staal or Cam Ward, and I'm not saying they have had any discussions about doing that..."

He just said it may be something they might have to consider with a small budget and not a lot of flexibility, plus being in a tougher conference starting next year, that they may need to consider trading one or both for a longer term fix.
Yeah yeah blah blah... all I care about is getting Ward here. Selective hearing be damned.

No but seriously, I worded it wrong but yeah he basically said he could see them moving one or both to rebuild.

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12-07-2011, 10:59 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Yeah yeah blah blah... all I care about is getting Ward here. Selective hearing be damned.

No but seriously, I worded it wrong but yeah he basically said he could see them moving one or both to rebuild.
I'd be really surprised if it happened though. They both have NTC's, both are 27 so still young, I would think it would be easier for the Canes to move guys like Pitkanen, Kaberle (maybe), and Jokinen who have fewer years left on their contracts. I guess anything is possible.

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Old
12-07-2011, 11:44 PM
  #50
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i guarantee they never move Staal or Ward. Eric Staal is the new Vinny around the league and Cam Ward is just where their value is so thats what people want to took about.

I honestly would like to have Tim Gleason here, or even a Jamie McBain if we are talking Carolina

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