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The Fourth Period: Canadiens considering shakeup?

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Old
12-07-2011, 03:58 PM
  #76
Monctonscout
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I don't see anythin g happening, McKenzie, Lavoie or Dreger would have something.


Last edited by Monctonscout: 12-07-2011 at 04:38 PM.
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Old
12-07-2011, 03:58 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
On Gainey as GM...

If Martin would be fired (I'll believe it when I see it...), I could conceive of Gauthier/Gainey staying around... If Gauthier's gone with Martin, Gainey's gone... His fingerprints are all over the Gauthier
and everything else!

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12-07-2011, 04:07 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
You suppose, you suppose, but you ignore the fact that Gainey is strong willed, even pig headed. He lost one assistant GM (André Savard) over disagreements, hired his hand picked coach (Guy Carbonneau) then fired him and took over the coaching, and made massive player changes. Then he decided to step aside.

Your supposing wouldn't even get you a ride on the metro no matter how much you pleaded with the station agent. Lots of things are possible. It's possible that Michel Bergeron will have a sex change operation. It's possible Vladimir Putin will emigrate to Canada. It's possible the Habs will win the Stanley Cup in 2012. Is it possible that you'll stick to the hard evidence instead of playing with your Ouija board?
Nope. My Ouija board had a strong inkling Markov would be a problem this year and it was right. My Ouija board said Subban would be the most disappointing Hab this year and we're headed in that direction because of what my Ouija board said about Markov. No chance I'm discarding the Ouija board. No chance.

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Old
12-07-2011, 04:09 PM
  #79
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Pressure is building but I wouldn't consider this a credible source. Even the unnamed source in the article is not at all definite.

Given the team's record anyone could look at it and start speculating. Habs run a fairly tight ship and we probably won't know when it happens until it basically does.

That said there are two scoops I can think of in recent history. Only major media scoop re management I can remember is McKenzie getting word on Gainey's depature, and he didn't know it was Gainey quitting.
And prior to Carbonneau's firing, Chris Higgins' brother iirc posted on here saying something was going to happen.

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Old
12-07-2011, 04:21 PM
  #80
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Just a reminder that posting fake news to get people's hopes up/piss them off/whatever isn't allowed.

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Old
12-07-2011, 04:53 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I don't see anythin g happening, McKenzie, Lavoie or Dreger would have something.
if one of them says somthing


that is meaningful

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Old
12-07-2011, 04:55 PM
  #82
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If changes are to come, they need to be from the top. Gauthier doesn't impress me... Some say that he is hurting because of BG's decisions, but I think they were in bed together the whole time. No difference to me between BG anf PG... Same exact style. We need something new.

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12-07-2011, 05:01 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
As per Pagnotta's twitter feed and website (TheFourthPeriod.com) there is a major shakeup looming and it might mean Martin, Gauthier and Gainey out the door.

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/mtl111207.html
A dream come true if it comes to fruition.

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Old
12-07-2011, 05:03 PM
  #84
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wow!! getting jim nill would be a coup! i know hes turned down offers from other teams but maybe being the gm of the most historical team in hockey would be enough for him to come? holland isnt going anywhere for bit....

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Old
12-07-2011, 05:06 PM
  #85
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The Habs should be considering changes...the firing of JM would be the first, and a trade should be 2nd...these guys need a fire lit under their butt$.....

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Old
12-07-2011, 05:10 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
I don't know what a new coach would do at this point. I know it's been suggested this team needs a more run and gun style but how much would that expose the D? The D gets plenty of help from the forwards and they really don't have the horses on the blueline to play run and gun except for Subban.

The one thing Martin can hang over Gauthier's head is the Markov factor. How many games has JM coached him? In fact the whole D has been injury ridden the last four years. Besides lacking a forward with punch the team has always lacked another top 4 d-man and this year is no different. Markov gets injured and the top 4 left gets quite the load to bear. This year it's Subban. The kid will be dead by the end of the season.

The Markov contract and lack of another top 4 d-man on the roster is on Gauthier. If he would go I wouldn't care. I'm not a fan of JM either but I think he's done a decent job with not much to work with. If you give a pass to Gauthier for the contracts then you sure as heck need to give it to JM moreso, don't you?

How many of these signings / trades (Gionta, Cammalleri, Gomez) were influenced by Pierre Gauthier before he became GM?
There is a LOT a new coach would do. First and foremost, inspire confidence in a team that is lacking it right now. Eliminate the fear that Martin has instilled in his younger players to the point that it is affecting their game. Along with that, there is the punishment of certain players for mistakes while other players get off "Scott" free.

Intangibles from a new coach alone would turn games like last night into easy wins.

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Old
12-07-2011, 05:17 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
If changes are to come, they need to be from the top. Gauthier doesn't impress me... Some say that he is hurting because of BG's decisions, but I think they were in bed together the whole time. No difference to me between BG anf PG... Same exact style. We need something new.
Wouldn't surprise me if Gainey was still calling the shots behind the scenes for the Habs.. I'm willing to bet he as major say in any matters before PG as the go ahead to do anything.

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Old
12-07-2011, 05:26 PM
  #88
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Would welcome this change. Doubt Nill is going to leave detroit though. Also makes no sense that Bob Gainey is the one advising Molson for a big change..

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Old
12-07-2011, 05:27 PM
  #89
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Get back to me when Mackenzie tweets something. Till then it's all just fluff.

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Old
12-07-2011, 05:29 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
As per Pagnotta's twitter feed and website (TheFourthPeriod.com) there is a major shakeup looming and it might mean Martin, Gauthier and Gainey out the door.

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/mtl111207.html

I don't see why management has to suffer because players aren't performing on the ice the way they are capable of performing!!

Cammalleri has played about 5 good games this season. 5 games where he actually put in an honest effort and didn't lose the puck everytime he got it. 5 games where he worked hard and finished his plays and was dangerous with his shots. The rest of his games he has been lazy and his head has not been in the game at all. He's easy to knock off the puck, he's not trying to win battles to get the puck back, he's a turnover machine and he's missing passes, bobbling pucks and taking terrible shots. Don't be surprised if he might get traded.

We can afford to lose a winger as far as I'm concerned. Cole, Pacioretty and Kostitsyn and even Moen have all played better than Cammalleri has this season IMO. Trading Cammalleri could fetch us a couple of big, gritty forwards with 2nd or 3rd line skill and give our team more size and depth. He could fetch the Habs 1 good offensive defencemen and a draft pick or even a roster player and a prospect.

Cammalleri either needs to get his head in the game and start competing and help lead this team to win hockey games or he has to go!! He's probably our most valuable asset right now that the team could do without. Yes....he's a beast in the playoffs but what good is that if the Habs don't make the playoffs? We need him to be a beast all season long...heck we're paying him enough...the least he could do is give some effort.

I personally don't think anybody in management has done anything wrong. Gaulthier has made some good moves since he's been GM, Martin is a good, experienced coach who has proven he can win and win with fair teams. If the players don't want to play for him...get players that will. Sulky hockey players that play crappy just to get their coaches fired get no respect from me!! They are payed a huge amount of money to play hockey...and deliberately losing or not putting in a solid effort every shift is not a team hockey player in my eyes.

I think Cammalleri is a great hockey player and a pure sniper. I would be more than happy if we kept Cammy and he picked his game up and played the way he is capable of....I would much rather keep him than lose him....BUT if things don't turn around soon....time could run out and the team could be forced to move him in trade of a player that will pull their own weight.

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Old
12-07-2011, 05:32 PM
  #91
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This isn't even a scoop. It's the same thing everyone's been speculating about for awhile now.

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Old
12-07-2011, 05:40 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleky Roks View Post
I don't see why management has to suffer because players aren't performing on the ice the way they are capable of performing!!

Cammalleri has played about 5 good games this season. 5 games where he actually put in an honest effort and didn't lose the puck everytime he got it. 5 games where he worked hard and finished his plays and was dangerous with his shots. The rest of his games he has been lazy and his head has not been in the game at all. He's easy to knock off the puck, he's not trying to win battles to get the puck back, he's a turnover machine and he's missing passes, bobbling pucks and taking terrible shots. Don't be surprised if he might get traded.

We can afford to lose a winger as far as I'm concerned. Cole, Pacioretty and Kostitsyn and even Moen have all played better than Cammalleri has this season IMO. Trading Cammalleri could fetch us a couple of big, gritty forwards with 2nd or 3rd line skill and give our team more size and depth. He could fetch the Habs 1 good offensive defencemen and a draft pick or even a roster player and a prospect.

Cammalleri either needs to get his head in the game and start competing and help lead this team to win hockey games or he has to go!! He's probably our most valuable asset right now that the team could do without. Yes....he's a beast in the playoffs but what good is that if the Habs don't make the playoffs? We need him to be a beast all season long...heck we're paying him enough...the least he could do is give some effort.

I personally don't think anybody in management has done anything wrong. Gaulthier has made some good moves since he's been GM, Martin is a good, experienced coach who has proven he can win and win with fair teams. If the players don't want to play for him...get players that will. Sulky hockey players that play crappy just to get their coaches fired get no respect from me!! They are payed a huge amount of money to play hockey...and deliberately losing or not putting in a solid effort every shift is not a team hockey player in my eyes.

I think Cammalleri is a great hockey player and a pure sniper. I would be more than happy if we kept Cammy and he picked his game up and played the way he is capable of....I would much rather keep him than lose him....BUT if things don't turn around soon....time could run out and the team could be forced to move him in trade of a player that will pull their own weight.

The reason they're underperforming is because they're offensive players are playing a defence-first system - what else do you expect??? The players are executing a strategy that just doesn't work for them. In 3 yrs, Cammy hasn't come close to scoring 40+ goals like he did in Calgary because of the defence-first system in place.

You can have the best team in the world but if they're not performing, sometimes the reason is the coaching strategy. The roster on paper looks great but it's been three years now since JM took over at the helm and I haven't seen these players play up to their potential other than in the playoffs. The problem seems to be a mix of coaching strategy and motivation both of which are the responsibility of the coach. PG also has to take the blame for the Markov debacle and the fact that he was head scout when Gainey traded Mcdonogh and co. for Gomez.

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Old
12-07-2011, 05:50 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by cjbhab View Post
Gauthier, Martin and Gainey are going nowhere...

http://www.*********/
Nothing in that article that already hasn't been said on this board before.. I agree with what he is saying and I've said it here in the very recent past.. As long as the stands are full and he is making money what incentive does Molson have to make any changes?

Now I know how Leaf fans feel after all these years..

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Old
12-07-2011, 05:53 PM
  #94
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I will not rest until Geoff Molson is also fired! Some very reliable posters on this very board have told me that Molson doesn't even want to win the Stanley Cup!!

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12-07-2011, 05:56 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
I will not rest until Geoff Molson is also fired! Some very reliable posters on this very board have told me that Molson doesn't even want to win the Stanley Cup!!
He only tells the truth! Even when he lies....

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Old
12-07-2011, 06:09 PM
  #96
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I don't have a list of his moves as Florida's GM in front of me to review his record but I know he gave Olesz that absolutely brutal deal (that Tallon unloaded on the Hawks who are now paying him almost 4m to play in the minors).
I think he was also in on the Luongo trade as well.

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Old
12-07-2011, 06:14 PM
  #97
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The reason they're underperforming is because they're offensive players are playing a defence-first system - what else do you expect??? The players are executing a strategy that just doesn't work for them. In 3 yrs, Cammy hasn't come close to scoring 40+ goals like he did in Calgary because of the defence-first system in place.

You can have the best team in the world but if they're not performing, sometimes the reason is the coaching strategy. The roster on paper looks great but it's been three years now since JM took over at the helm and I haven't seen these players play up to their potential other than in the playoffs. The problem seems to be a mix of coaching strategy and motivation both of which are the responsibility of the coach. PG also has to take the blame for the Markov debacle and the fact that he was head scout when Gainey traded Mcdonogh and co. for Gomez.
Calgary had offense first system in place? news to me.

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Old
12-07-2011, 06:18 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
uggg...
the thought of Gainey playing any kind of advisory role with the ownership makes me shudder...

If there is the need for a "major shake-up", how can the same guy who presided over all of the changes since 2003 still be allowed to have any influence in what needs to be done.

we wallowed through the first failed 5 year plan, were in the middle of the second failed 5 year plan, does he really get to lead us into yet another???
First thing that popped into my head as well. Bob Gainey should have zero say. He should be as far removed from this decision as possible.

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Old
12-07-2011, 06:27 PM
  #99
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Calgary had offense first system in place? news to me.
it i can remenber it alex tangauy wanted out the first time since the system under mike keenan wasn't working for him and then CGY traded him to MTL

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Old
12-07-2011, 06:29 PM
  #100
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The reason they're underperforming is because they're offensive players are playing a defence-first system - what else do you expect??? The players are executing a strategy that just doesn't work for them. In 3 yrs, Cammy hasn't come close to scoring 40+ goals like he did in Calgary because of the defence-first system in place.

You can have the best team in the world but if they're not performing, sometimes the reason is the coaching strategy. The roster on paper looks great but it's been three years now since JM took over at the helm and I haven't seen these players play up to their potential other than in the playoffs. The problem seems to be a mix of coaching strategy and motivation both of which are the responsibility of the coach. PG also has to take the blame for the Markov debacle and the fact that he was head scout when Gainey traded Mcdonogh and co. for Gomez.
Put together Cammalleri's 2009-10 season with his playoffs and you'll find he scored basically the same amount of goals in the same amount of games in Montreal as he did in Calgary. Gionta has had his best goal scoring campaigns in years when he went form New Jersey to Montreal and Plekanec has been a better scorer under Martin then he was with Carboneau.

Of the Canadiens' top nine only Desharnais is a pure offensive player, all the others have some two way ability to a greater (Plekanec, Gionta, Eller) or lesser extent (Cammalleri, Kostitsyn).

This team isn't built for run and gun. Its best talents (Plekanec, Subban, Pacioretty and healthy Markov) are two-way players and its depth is balanced between offense and defense. I have know idea why that meme persists.

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