HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Louis Leblanc called up

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-07-2011, 06:30 PM
  #451
PlayMistyForMe
Registered User
 
PlayMistyForMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Richards and Carter both have played more AHL games than Leblanc thus far, they just did in the playoffs, where both of them were ppg+. A scoring rate Leblanc has yet to match.

If Leblanc was a ppg over 20+ games in the AHL then he'd be comparable to Richards and Carter. But he isn't.
Jeff Carter and Richards played in the playoffs in AHL because their Junior team did not make the playoffs or were eliminate early in the first round. If they played on a Memorial cup winning team, they would have never played in the AHL, period. So Carter and Richards had more than a point per game in their 15 to 20 game stint in the AHL. Let's look who was on that team: Carter, Richards, R.J. Umberger, Patrick Sharp, Dennis Seidenberg, Joni Pitkanen, Randy Jones and Ben Eager. So Leblanc gets 10 points in 14 games with a crappy team who's lead scorer is DeSimone with 5 goals... hmm I wonder how many points Leblanc would get on that 2004-5 Phantoms team playing with Patrick Sharp and Umberger... in the playoffs... not at the beginning of the season coming off an injury... Makes you wonder...

PlayMistyForMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 06:45 PM
  #452
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayMistyForMe View Post
Jeff Carter and Richards played in the playoffs in AHL because their Junior team did not make the playoffs or were eliminate early in the first round. If they played on a Memorial cup winning team, they would have never played in the AHL, period. So Carter and Richards had more than a point per game in their 15 to 20 game stint in the AHL. Let's look who was on that team: Carter, Richards, R.J. Umberger, Patrick Sharp, Dennis Seidenberg, Joni Pitkanen, Randy Jones and Ben Eager. So Leblanc gets 10 points in 14 games with a crappy team who's lead scorer is DeSimone with 5 goals... hmm I wonder how many points Leblanc would get on that 2004-5 Phantoms team playing with Patrick Sharp and Umberger... in the playoffs... not at the beginning of the season coming off an injury... Makes you wonder...
Sure but the overall point is that you were wrong, they did have an AHL apprenticeship, proved they were too good to stay down and then made the team. They got to get their feet wet at the pro game before playing in the NHL. Which is probably a good idea for a guy with no pro experience and coming of a major injury and surgery to get before subjected to the rigours of the NHL.

Plus its hard to say for sure that Leblanc is absolutely a better player than Moen right now as the 6th winger, so staying in Montreal means 4th line which no one seems to want.

On the other hand Leblanc definitely showed some game. I think he's pretty close to ready for 3rd line and won't need much longer. He's solidified himself as the top-callup IMO and given the prevalence of injuries, means he'll be back in the NHL soon enough.

That said, I doubt there is an absolute right or wrong way to develop prospects. Philadelphia's had some success, as you've noted, with bringing them up as soon as possible while Detroit has had success waiting for players to be over-ripe before bringing them up. Either way I bet the quality of instruction matters more than the method.

Talks to Goalposts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 07:27 PM
  #453
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,516
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Sure but the overall point is that you were wrong, they did have an AHL apprenticeship, proved they were too good to stay down and then made the team. They got to get their feet wet at the pro game before playing in the NHL. Which is probably a good idea for a guy with no pro experience and coming of a major injury and surgery to get before subjected to the rigours of the NHL.

Plus its hard to say for sure that Leblanc is absolutely a better player than Moen right now as the 6th winger, so staying in Montreal means 4th line which no one seems to want.

On the other hand Leblanc definitely showed some game. I think he's pretty close to ready for 3rd line and won't need much longer. He's solidified himself as the top-callup IMO and given the prevalence of injuries, means he'll be back in the NHL soon enough.

That said, I doubt there is an absolute right or wrong way to develop prospects. Philadelphia's had some success, as you've noted, with bringing them up as soon as possible while Detroit has had success waiting for players to be over-ripe before bringing them up. Either way I bet the quality of instruction matters more than the method.
Pacioretty is a guy I look to when looking at LeBlanc's development...he was rushed at 20 while he still needed to dominate the AHL and showed he wasn't ready, eventually he went back down and came back but it set him back about a year.

In order to maximise his offensive game, 1st line AHL is a better place than 3rd or 4th line NHL with minimal special teams.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 07:33 PM
  #454
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Pacioretty is a guy I look to when looking at LeBlanc's development...he was rushed at 20 while he still needed to dominate the AHL and showed he wasn't ready, eventually he went back down and came back but it set him back about a year.

In order to maximise his offensive game, 1st line AHL is a better place than 3rd or 4th line NHL with minimal special teams.
If he can hack playing third line with a guy like Eller with Kostitsyn as his usual linemate I don't think that's a bad place for a two-way forward to develop. Certainly better linemates than Metropolit and Moen that Pacioretty had at 20. The caveat is whether he can play at that level for an extended period of time, which is still and open question. Both 3rd line NHL and 1st line AHL put him in a significant learning situation. Either way I doubt he's hurt by being down on the farm for a extended period if the NHL team doesn't need his services.

Talks to Goalposts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 07:36 PM
  #455
PlayMistyForMe
Registered User
 
PlayMistyForMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Sure but the overall point is that you were wrong, they did have an AHL apprenticeship, proved they were too good to stay down and then made the team. They got to get their feet wet at the pro game before playing in the NHL. Which is probably a good idea for a guy with no pro experience and coming of a major injury and surgery to get before subjected to the rigours of the NHL.

Plus its hard to say for sure that Leblanc is absolutely a better player than Moen right now as the 6th winger, so staying in Montreal means 4th line which no one seems to want.

On the other hand Leblanc definitely showed some game. I think he's pretty close to ready for 3rd line and won't need much longer. He's solidified himself as the top-callup IMO and given the prevalence of injuries, means he'll be back in the NHL soon enough.

That said, I doubt there is an absolute right or wrong way to develop prospects. Philadelphia's had some success, as you've noted, with bringing them up as soon as possible while Detroit has had success waiting for players to be over-ripe before bringing them up. Either way I bet the quality of instruction matters more than the method.
True. There is no single true way to develop a player. Their position, size, role and mental focus will determine if they need a stint in the AHL and for how long.

But when teams pick an offensive player as their first round pick, and that player is not a north/south power forward, GMs believe that they have the ability to join the team and develop within the roster on the second or third line when they complete their years in the juniors or the NCAA. From 2002 to 2007, 23 first round picks who were offensive players never played a single AHL game. That's a definitive tendency.
A part from the case of Bobby Ryan, there are few examples of successes with first round-pick offensive rookies who were asked to play a full year in the AHL before joining the NHL. It is simply not the norm anymore. There are 30 players between 18 and 20 years of age who have played 15 games or more in the NHL this year.

Montreal is offensively challenged this year, 24th place in offense with a young defense that simply can't play shutdown hockey night after night. Trying out Leblanc for a 20 game stint on the third line might shake things up. Seems like a proactive thing to do. If he does not work out, you send him down with specific instructions to work on part of his game and bring him back up when the Bulldog coach says he's ready.

PlayMistyForMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 07:45 PM
  #456
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayMistyForMe View Post
True. There is no single true way to develop a player. Their position, size, role and mental focus will determine if they need a stint in the AHL and for how long.

But when teams pick an offensive player as their first round pick, and that player is not a north/south power forward, GMs believe that they have the ability to join the team and develop within the roster on the second or third line when they complete their years in the juniors or the NCAA. From 2002 to 2007, 23 first round picks who were offensive players never played a single AHL game. That's a definitive tendency.
A part from the case of Bobby Ryan, there are few examples of successes with first round-pick offensive rookies who were asked to play a full year in the AHL before joining the NHL. It is simply not the norm anymore. There are 30 players between 18 and 20 years of age who have played 15 games or more in the NHL this year.

Montreal is offensively challenged this year, 24th place in offense with a young defense that simply can't play shutdown hockey night after night. Trying out Leblanc for a 20 game stint on the third line might shake things up. Seems like a proactive thing to do. If he does not work out, you send him down with specific instructions to work on part of his game and bring him back up when the Bulldog coach says he's ready.
On the other hand, Pacioretty is a pretty compelling case that rounding out your game in the lesser league can do good things for a player. And having him play the majority of the 1st half of the season in the AHL does not equal having him play the entire year there. And where he might help them (5 on 5 offense) really isn't the biggest concern, most of the year its been pretty good. The problem with the offense is the powerplay, which Leblanc would do nothing to fix.

Talks to Goalposts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 08:31 PM
  #457
PlayMistyForMe
Registered User
 
PlayMistyForMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Sure but the overall point is that you were wrong, they did have an AHL apprenticeship... ...with bringing them up as soon as possible while Detroit has had success waiting for players to be over-ripe before bringing them up. Either way I bet the quality of instruction matters more than the method.
I don't think I am being proven wrong. Carter and Richards played in the AHL AFTER their full season came to an end in the Juniors. The main motive for that was to ensure that they play the maximum number of games in the year, not to determine if they should start the season next year with the Flyers (that's what training camp is for). If either of them had won teh Memorial Cup, they would have never played in the AHL.

As for Detroit... I keep hearing that they develop their players in the minors before bringing them up, which is the secret of their success. That is false, at least when refering to their offense. With the exception of the 2010 draft, you have to go back to 1992 to see Detroit pick an offensive player in the first round (some player fro the 67s who never played in the NHL). They mostly pick Ds or trade their first round pick for a player at the trade deadline. If you look at Detroit's top offensive players since the 90's: Franzen, Datsyuk, Hudler, Holstrom, Fedorov, Yzerman and Zetterberg, none of them played in the minors (except Holmstrom who played 6 games). The only ones who played in the minors are Filppula and Kozlov. True, they do for the most part come in the NHL at 23 and over, but again that's because, like the NCAA, they only play 30 or 40 games a year in Europe. The true secret of their success is drafting in the late rounds Swedish and Russian players that seemingly every other team overlooked, and developing them in the NHL as superstars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
On the other hand, Pacioretty is a pretty compelling case that rounding out your game in the lesser league can do good things for a player. And having him play the majority of the 1st half of the season in the AHL does not equal having him play the entire year there. And where he might help them (5 on 5 offense) really isn't the biggest concern, most of the year its been pretty good. The problem with the offense is the powerplay, which Leblanc would do nothing to fix.
True. I think they handled Pacioretty quite well (I even think they let him play too long in Montreal before sending him down to Hamilton in his first stint in the NHL). But Max Pac is a power forward, not the same type of finesse player like Leblanc. North/South power forwards usually take longer to develop... look at Kerr, Neely, Leclair, K. Primeau and Marleau.


Last edited by Habsfan18: 12-08-2011 at 01:43 PM.
PlayMistyForMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2011, 09:35 PM
  #458
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayMistyForMe View Post
I don't think I am being proven wrong. Carter and Richards played in the AHL AFTER their full season came to an end in the Juniors. The main motive for that was to ensure that they play the maximum number of games in the year, not to determine if they should start the season next year with the Flyers (that's what training camp is for). If either of them had won teh Memorial Cup, they would have never played in the AHL.

As for Detroit... I keep hearing that they develop their players in the minors before bringing them up, which is the secret of their success. That is false, at least when refering to their offense. With the exception of the 2010 draft, you have to go back to 1992 to see Detroit pick an offensive player in the first round (some player fro the 67s who never played in the NHL). They mostly pick Ds or trade their first round pick for a player at the trade deadline. If you look at Detroit's top offensive players since the 90's: Franzen, Datsyuk, Hudler, Holstrom, Fedorov, Yzerman and Zetterberg, none of them played in the minors (except Holmstrom who played 6 games). The only ones who played in the minors are Filppula and Kozlov. True, they do for the most part come in the NHL at 23 and over, but again that's because, like the NCAA, they only play 30 or 40 games a year in Europe. The true secret of their success is drafting in the late rounds Swedish and Russian players that seemingly every other team overlooked, and developing them in the NHL as superstars.
You did say they didn't play in the AHL before the NHL. That was completely false.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayMistyForMe View Post
True. I think they handled Pacioretty quite well (I even think they let him play too long in Montreal before sending him down to Hamilton in his first stint in the NHL). But Max Pac is a power forward, not the same type of finesse player like Leblanc. North/South power forwards usually take longer to develop... look at Kerr, Neely, Leclair, K. Primeau and Marleau.
Leblanc isn't an purely offensively skilled forward either, who are the ones that tend to mature and peak the earliest. He's much more of the two-way/grinder with skills type that come into there own a bit latter. Plekanec is probably the best comparable of the current Habs (or maybe Eller) and he probably did well by his long AHL apprenticeship.

Eitherway, he probably spend his 20th year as an AHL star or as a replacement level player in the NHL, or more likely a combination of the two as the first forward callup. Either way, I doubt he has much impact for the NHL team this season, or if there is a serious effect on his development by where he plays.

Talks to Goalposts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2011, 12:26 AM
  #459
PlayMistyForMe
Registered User
 
PlayMistyForMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
You did say they didn't play in the AHL before the NHL. That was completely false.



Leblanc isn't an purely offensively skilled forward either, who are the ones that tend to mature and peak the earliest. He's much more of the two-way/grinder with skills type that come into there own a bit latter. Plekanec is probably the best comparable of the current Habs (or maybe Eller) and he probably did well by his long AHL apprenticeship.

Eitherway, he probably spend his 20th year as an AHL star or as a replacement level player in the NHL, or more likely a combination of the two as the first forward callup. Either way, I doubt he has much impact for the NHL team this season, or if there is a serious effect on his development by where he plays.
I know that he had his share of penalty minutes in the Juniors, but of the games I have seen him play in (and I saw him last year in a pre-season game at Scotia Bank Place), he was not very gritty and looked more like a Ribeiro clone, a playmaker that gets a lot more assists than goals. Of course, I have not seen him play all that much.

PlayMistyForMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2011, 12:41 AM
  #460
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayMistyForMe View Post
I know that he had his share of penalty minutes in the Juniors, but of the games I have seen him play in (and I saw him last year in a pre-season game at Scotia Bank Place), he was not very gritty and looked more like a Ribeiro clone, a playmaker that gets a lot more assists than goals. Of course, I have not seen him play all that much.
From what I've seen and what I've heard from others his one standout skill compared to everything else he does is win puck battles along the boards and grind out possession in the offensive zone, which makes him pretty grind-ery even if he's not a particularly hit-ty forward. Plus, playing at a higher level he seems more likely to play penalty kill then powerplay. Like Riberio isn't how I'd describe him beyond both being French Canadien forwards that wear 71.

He also has a track record of being a big shot creator that tends to have as many goals as assists, something that you can track quite well by looking at his statistics (goals, shots, and "dangerous shots") which were all pretty solid last season. He also created a huge amount of shots per game as a rookie in Hamilton which is pretty indicative of his tendency to focus on scoring rather than playmaking.

Talks to Goalposts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2011, 12:37 PM
  #461
MasterDecoy
Carlos Danger
 
MasterDecoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Beijing
Posts: 9,908
vCash: 1707
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Leblanc >>>>> Darche. Missmanagement of assets yet again.
wow...

MasterDecoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2011, 01:42 PM
  #462
grayson*
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 235
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamiltonhabfan10 View Post
I would assume he'd be able to afford it, but nothing wrong with Cole stepping in who makes x4 what Louis would make in the NHL, and like 60x what his AHL salary is, paying for the kids parents flight. I doubt Louis asked anyone to fly his parents over
This. I'm sure his family COULD afford it, but why is it bad for a vet who has been making millions for years and who wont even notice it on his CC bill to step in and just say screw it use my card. Theres a difference between being able to pay for something and not even noticing paying for something.

grayson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2011, 03:13 PM
  #463
macavoy
Registered User
 
macavoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,480
vCash: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayMistyForMe View Post
I don't think I am being proven wrong. Carter and Richards played in the AHL AFTER their full season came to an end in the Juniors. The main motive for that was to ensure that they play the maximum number of games in the year, not to determine if they should start the season next year with the Flyers (that's what training camp is for). If either of them had won teh Memorial Cup, they would have never played in the AHL.
Carter & Richards are superstars, Leblanc will never be a superstar / even close to their level, trying to compare them is loltastic.

Your also forgetting the fishbowl that is Montreal. Why don't you try using similar comparables.

Look at how the Montreal prospects who have spent minimal time in the AHL and how they have fared.


Minimal time in the AHL

Sergei Kostitsyn: rushed to the NHL, had problems surrounding his mental aspect of the game

Guillame Lattendresse: rushed to the NHL, has had problems with consistency, being out of shape, probably could also be labelled mental / motivational issues.


Look at players who were developed more slowly and spent time maturing in the AHL


Tomas Plekanecs: the extra year during the lockout really helped him be mature during his brutal sucky year, his worse year, he was probably the hardest working player on the team. That says a lot about his character.

Max Pacioretty: rushed at first but given more time to mature and it really helped him.

Also look at DD vs Eller to a degree. DD is producing a lot more consistently than Eller at the NHL level because he was given a chance to hone his skills at the AHL level first. I see a lot of tools in Eller and potential but part of me is afraid he'll never get results because he hasn't ever had a chance to be an offensive player in like 3-4 years. He never really had an awesome year in the AHL.


Its always why I believe Gallagher will be a lot better than Avtsin. Avtsin should have never played in the AHL last year. He hasn't been an offensive threat since he was 17. That doesn't bode well for the confidence of offensive players. Meanwhile Gallagher is tearing up the AHL and looked like he was almost NHL ready, well a lot more than Avtsin anyway.

macavoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2011, 03:46 PM
  #464
Watsatheo
Error 503 Service
 
Watsatheo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,306
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
Read is 25 so he's more physially matured then a 20 year old.

If we had Couturier, I would want him sent back to the Q. Last time we tried playing a 19 year old out of the Q in the NHL didn't work so well, don't see them doing that again.
Nothing wrong with trying again and again a development concept that has rarely worked for them in recent years. It's bound to succeed eventually.

Of course, ignoring the few development successes on the way (Subban, Pacioretty, Plekanec).

Watsatheo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2011, 03:48 PM
  #465
overlords
Hfboards
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 26,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post

Also look at DD vs Eller to a degree. DD is producing a lot more consistently than Eller at the NHL level because he was given a chance to hone his skills at the AHL level first. I see a lot of tools in Eller and potential but part of me is afraid he'll never get results because he hasn't ever had a chance to be an offensive player in like 3-4 years. He never really had an awesome year in the AHL.

Desharnais is also about 3 years older than, eller, isn't he? Eller did have his awesome year in the AHL. When he came back from being sick, he went on a tear. I think I remember people saying he had mono or something like that.

I do agree that it's probably best to not rush our players. Our young guys should only be graduating when they're pushing vets out.

overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2011, 03:54 PM
  #466
Carey Chant
Registered User
 
Carey Chant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 469
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Its always why I believe Gallagher will be a lot better than Avtsin. Avtsin should have never played in the AHL last year. He hasn't been an offensive threat since he was 17. That doesn't bode well for the confidence of offensive players. Meanwhile Gallagher is tearing up the AHL and looked like he was almost NHL ready, well a lot more than Avtsin anyway.
Gallagher is in the WHL not AHL, totally different levels to dominate in. Avtsin is special case because they wanted to bring him over and not risk him staying in russia for a longer period of time. He was also one of the youngest players in the AHL and needs time to adjust to north american game.

Carey Chant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2011, 04:01 PM
  #467
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,610
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Also look at DD vs Eller to a degree. DD is producing a lot more consistently than Eller at the NHL level because he was given a chance to hone his skills at the AHL level first. I see a lot of tools in Eller and potential but part of me is afraid he'll never get results because he hasn't ever had a chance to be an offensive player in like 3-4 years. He never really had an awesome year in the AHL.
Eller pretty much dominated the AHL after getting over mono. His stat lane was about as good as Plekanec ever was in Hamilton (although less of a goal scorer). He's also projected to be more of a strong two-way forward a la Plekanec than a pure offensive force, so on a third line with a guy like Kostitsyn on his wing as often as possible sounds like the place he need to be to develop.

Talks to Goalposts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2011, 04:06 PM
  #468
tinyzombies
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Calif via Montreal
Posts: 11,462
vCash: 500
Saw Louis in Anaheim and LA up close.

Nice zip on the wrister - but I didn't see much of a release, vision I don't know, but he did make a few nice passes, escapability, smarts seems like he has some...

was out of position defensively a bit and has zero top end speed... very small and easily pushed over.

Looks like another bust from the Timmins factory to me. Reminds me of Ribeiro without the one-on-one moves and vision...

It's like that Joe Rogen joke about corporations trotting out dumb presidential candidates: "I think we can go dumber!"

For us, it's 'I think we can go smaller!'

tinyzombies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2011, 04:10 PM
  #469
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,516
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Carter & Richards are superstars, Leblanc will never be a superstar / even close to their level, trying to compare them is loltastic.

Your also forgetting the fishbowl that is Montreal. Why don't you try using similar comparables.

Look at how the Montreal prospects who have spent minimal time in the AHL and how they have fared.


Minimal time in the AHL

Sergei Kostitsyn: rushed to the NHL, had problems surrounding his mental aspect of the game

Guillame Lattendresse: rushed to the NHL, has had problems with consistency, being out of shape, probably could also be labelled mental / motivational issues.


Look at players who were developed more slowly and spent time maturing in the AHL


Tomas Plekanecs: the extra year during the lockout really helped him be mature during his brutal sucky year, his worse year, he was probably the hardest working player on the team. That says a lot about his character.

Max Pacioretty: rushed at first but given more time to mature and it really helped him.

Also look at DD vs Eller to a degree. DD is producing a lot more consistently than Eller at the NHL level because he was given a chance to hone his skills at the AHL level first. I see a lot of tools in Eller and potential but part of me is afraid he'll never get results because he hasn't ever had a chance to be an offensive player in like 3-4 years. He never really had an awesome year in the AHL.


Its always why I believe Gallagher will be a lot better than Avtsin. Avtsin should have never played in the AHL last year. He hasn't been an offensive threat since he was 17. That doesn't bode well for the confidence of offensive players. Meanwhile Gallagher is tearing up the AHL and looked like he was almost NHL ready, well a lot more than Avtsin anyway.
Carter and Richards are superstars? On which planet?

I agree somewhat on Latendresse, but because he was 19 he couldn't go AHL and he had already dominated at the QMJHL level so playing another year against 170lbs defensemen wouldn't have helped his development. In an ideal world he would have played AHL at 19 and possibly part of the year at 20. I still think he is a darn good player for a 2nd round pick.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2011, 04:27 PM
  #470
NewHabsEra*
 
NewHabsEra*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Saw Louis in Anaheim and LA up close.

Nice zip on the wrister - but I didn't see much of a release, vision I don't know, but he did make a few nice passes, escapability, smarts seems like he has some...

was out of position defensively a bit and has zero top end speed... very small and easily pushed over.

Looks like another bust from the Timmins factory to me. Reminds me of Ribeiro without the one-on-one moves and vision...

It's like that Joe Rogen joke about corporations trotting out dumb presidential candidates: "I think we can go dumber!"

For us, it's 'I think we can go smaller!'
This is the kind of statement that will embarass youself for a long long time..

NewHabsEra* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-08-2011, 06:07 PM
  #471
macavoy
Registered User
 
macavoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,480
vCash: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Desharnais is also about 3 years older than, eller, isn't he? Eller did have his awesome year in the AHL. When he came back from being sick, he went on a tear. I think I remember people saying he had mono or something like that.

I do agree that it's probably best to not rush our players. Our young guys should only be graduating when they're pushing vets out.

I know DD is older but my point is, he's producing, there is no guarantee that Eller will ever produce. But the slow route hasn't ruined anyone's career / chances. Being rushed has.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Chant View Post
Gallagher is in the WHL not AHL, totally different levels to dominate in. Avtsin is special case because they wanted to bring him over and not risk him staying in russia for a longer period of time. He was also one of the youngest players in the AHL and needs time to adjust to north american game.
I know they are different levels, my point was Avtsin should have been given a chance to adjust to the NA game by dominating JR. It would have been a much better adjustment. As it stands now, he's gone 3 years without scoring 10 goals. That's not a good thing for an offensive dynamo. How do you think that affects his confidence level?

Everyone was saying how he'd do so much better this year than last year and he hasn't. People underestimate the importance of confidence and the mental side of the game.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Eller pretty much dominated the AHL after getting over mono. His stat lane was about as good as Plekanec ever was in Hamilton (although less of a goal scorer). He's also projected to be more of a strong two-way forward a la Plekanec than a pure offensive force, so on a third line with a guy like Kostitsyn on his wing as often as possible sounds like the place he need to be to develop.
I just think he would have been much better if he started last year in Hamilton, learning our defensive system & style, then being promoted afterwards. I just feel like we are not giving him enough of a chance to become an offensive threat.

Sticking someone in a 3rd line defensive role for 2 years isn't the way you train them to be offensive players imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Carter and Richards are superstars? On which planet?

I agree somewhat on Latendresse, but because he was 19 he couldn't go AHL and he had already dominated at the QMJHL level so playing another year against 170lbs defensemen wouldn't have helped his development. In an ideal world he would have played AHL at 19 and possibly part of the year at 20. I still think he is a darn good player for a 2nd round pick.
Compared to Louis Leblanc, they are superstars, they are way more talented than he is.

macavoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:16 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.