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why does Gretzky get so little respect as a goal scorer?

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Old
11-25-2005, 02:23 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander
Gretzky has scored 257 more NHL goals, all totalled to date. But who's counting.

Should jagr get an asterix for all those powerplay goals this season? No. It doesn't matter if Mario scored over a third of his goals on the powerplay. It still doesn't explain how Gretzky isn't remembered so much as a goal scorer, does it?
I agree, however the comment is more of an attack on chooch's idiotic statements about Gretzky whooping it up late it games and scoring empty netters.

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11-25-2005, 02:34 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMoses
I agree, however the comment is more of an attack on chooch's idiotic statements about Gretzky whooping it up late it games and scoring empty netters.
Only reason chooch still clings to that is because of all the nonsense he has claimed about Wayne, that was the only one that wasn't totally and thoroughly destroyed. Mainly because it can't be substantiated either way without a game-by-game breakdown of every goal of Wayne's career.

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11-25-2005, 06:58 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by JCD
Only reason chooch still clings to that is because of all the nonsense he has claimed about Wayne, that was the only one that wasn't totally and thoroughly destroyed. Mainly because it can't be substantiated either way without a game-by-game breakdown of every goal of Wayne's career.
Nothing was totally and thoroughly destroyed or substantiated, you dink. Like when some guy wrote that teh Habs had more blowouts than the Oilers and didnt mention that as Sather recently claimed 99 was on the ice at the end trolling for more while if you;d watched any of those games you'd know Lafleur line played only 2 or 3 shifts after the 2nd in blowouts.

Or the East v. West thing. Yeah, I really believe that 99 could have scored as many goals if he;d played in the East with the tougher players and lousy ice. Even he'd wouldnt try that one on.

Or that he never had more protection than Rocket or Gordie or Orr or Lafleur or Messier etc etc.

Or the power play thing about Mario (how;d he get into this discussion?): you want to know why 99 couldnt score on the PP? Its because he sat like Cassie Campbell behind the net during PP awhile 66 played like a man in front of the net! I didnt want to say it. He played like Cassie on the PP. In his office behind the net!

99's big advantage was hanging at centre during 5 on 5 play. This he couldnt do during PP.

later

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11-25-2005, 07:18 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Nothing was totally and thoroughly destroyed or substantiated, you dink. Like when some guy wrote that teh Habs had more blowouts than the Oilers and didnt mention that as Sather recently claimed 99 was on the ice at the end trolling for more while if you;d watched any of those games you'd know Lafleur line played only 2 or 3 shifts after the 2nd in blowouts.

Or the East v. West thing. Yeah, I really believe that 99 could have scored as many goals if he;d played in the East with the tougher players and lousy ice. Even he'd wouldnt try that one on.

Or that he never had more protection than Rocket or Gordie or Orr or Lafleur or Messier etc etc.

Or the power play thing about Mario (how;d he get into this discussion?): you want to know why 99 couldnt score on the PP? Its because he sat like Cassie Campbell behind the net during PP awhile 66 played like a man in front of the net! I didnt want to say it. He played like Cassie on the PP. In his office behind the net!

99's big advantage was hanging at centre during 5 on 5 play. This he couldnt do during PP.

later
You are a joke. What you don't seem to understand is repeating the same nonsense over and over again does not make it magically come true.

Any and every time you have attempted to "debate" what Gretzky has done, you end up looking like an 8 year old taking on Carl Sagan.

EDIT: Nothing destroyed? A quick search and I found this:
http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=131870

Actually, all you have to do is search your name and Gretzky and there is absolutely no shortage of material. In fact, every claim you have made was wrong. You would back track until you finally came across one that wasn't a lie. The only things that didn't blow up in your face were the vague unprovable ones.

You are a joke and the very definition of a troll.


Last edited by JCD: 11-26-2005 at 08:07 AM.
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Old
11-26-2005, 12:51 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMoses
Yes it is.

That's higher than any of the other big scorers. It's very significant considering the guy doesn't even have 700 goals...

Even more telling is that fact that Wayne's percentage is at slightly over 20 and in fact he scored less power play goals in his career than Mario has, despite scoring 200 more total goals...

34.2% is LESS then 50% which is what is considered half by anyone who is capable of doing math.

Brett Hull 265 PP goals, or 35.8% of his career total.
Dave Andreychuk 271 PP goals or 42.6% of his career total.
Luc Robitialle 245 PP goals or 37.3% of his career total.
Brendan Shanahan 202 PP goals or 34.5% of his career total.
Ron Francis 188 PP goals or 34.2% of his career total.
Joe Nieuwendyk 207 PP goals or 38.8% of his career total.

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11-26-2005, 01:24 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Nothing was totally and thoroughly destroyed or substantiated, you dink. Like when some guy wrote that teh Habs had more blowouts than the Oilers and didnt mention that as Sather recently claimed 99 was on the ice at the end trolling for more while if you;d watched any of those games you'd know Lafleur line played only 2 or 3 shifts after the 2nd in blowouts.
Prove it... Or just do what you normally do and make ridiculous claims... You want to talk about trolling, how about Mario snubbing his country to go after a Q scoring record?

Quote:
Or the East v. West thing. Yeah, I really believe that 99 could have scored as many goals if he;d played in the East with the tougher players and lousy ice. Even he'd wouldnt try that one on.
This argument has been punched out so many times it's not even funny.. Even more importantly, all you are doing is speculating and you can in no way conclusively say that Wayne wouldn't have done even better against teams in the East...

Quote:
Or that he never had more protection than Rocket or Gordie or Orr or Lafleur or Messier etc etc.
Why do you harp on this protection thing? It's totally irrelevant in terms of his play. He couldn't be caught anyway.

Quote:
Or the power play thing about Mario (how;d he get into this discussion?): you want to know why 99 couldnt score on the PP? Its because he sat like Cassie Campbell behind the net during PP awhile 66 played like a man in front of the net! I didnt want to say it. He played like Cassie on the PP. In his office behind the net!
Actually, if you ever bothered to watch hockey. Mario camped to the goalies left at the hash marks waiting for the one time pass... You are a joke...

Quote:
99's big advantage was hanging at centre during 5 on 5 play. This he couldnt do during PP.

later
Again, watch some games. He didn't hang at center... He spent most of his time in the defensive end guarding the slot...

Just give up already...

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11-26-2005, 01:26 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHacker
34.2% is LESS then 50% which is what is considered half by anyone who is capable of doing math.

Brett Hull 265 PP goals, or 35.8% of his career total.
Dave Andreychuk 271 PP goals or 42.6% of his career total.
Luc Robitialle 245 PP goals or 37.3% of his career total.
Brendan Shanahan 202 PP goals or 34.5% of his career total.
Ron Francis 188 PP goals or 34.2% of his career total.
Joe Nieuwendyk 207 PP goals or 38.8% of his career total.
I've never said it was half. I said it was almost half. These numbers are unimportant. The only one that matters is Gretzky's in relation to Mario's..

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11-26-2005, 02:07 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMoses
I've never said it was half. I said it was almost half. These numbers are unimportant. The only one that matters is Gretzky's in relation to Mario's..
You said:
Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHacker
34.2% is not nearly half.


Yes it is.

That's higher than any of the other big scorers. It's very significant considering the guy doesn't even have 700 goals...

Even more telling is that fact that Wayne's percentage is at slightly over 20 and in fact he scored less power play goals in his career than Mario has, despite scoring 200 more total goals...
You said 34.2% is nearly half, I disagree. For it to be nearly half tha number would have to come close to 50%. I can just as accurately say that Mario has nearly scored 18% of his goals on the powerplay.

You also said that bolded bit. Ergo the numbers I provided you.

Which is somewhat different then

Quote:
These numbers are unimportant. The only one that matters is Gretzky's in relation to Mario's..
I proved you were wrong when you stated that "That's higher than any of the other big scorers". All the guys in that list are in the top 25 of all time goal scoring for the NHL. And all six of them have scored more powerplay goals as a percentage of their goal totals as Mario, and 3 of them have scored more Power Play goals then Mario has.

So you are basically saying since Mario scored more powerplay goals then Wayne did, Mario's goal scoring isn't as impressive as Wayne's.

If you throw away Mario's PP goals then Wayne's must be tossed as well.

That then gives us Mario with 454 even strength or shorthanded goals in 910 games. vs Wayne with 690 even strength or shorthanded goals in 1487 games (which works out to 422 goals in 910 games).

What about Wayne's 55 career empty net goals, do they count?

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Old
11-26-2005, 02:12 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHacker
You said:

You said 34.2% is nearly half, I disagree. For it to be nearly half tha number would have to come close to 50%. I can just as accurately say that Mario has nearly scored 18% of his goals on the powerplay.

You also said that bolded bit. Ergo the numbers I provided you.

Which is somewhat different then



I proved you were wrong when you stated that "That's higher than any of the other big scorers". All the guys in that list are in the top 25 of all time goal scoring for the NHL. And all six of them have scored more powerplay goals as a percentage of their goal totals as Mario, and 3 of them have scored more Power Play goals then Mario has.

So you are basically saying since Mario scored more powerplay goals then Wayne did, Mario's goal scoring isn't as impressive as Wayne's.

If you throw away Mario's PP goals then Wayne's must be tossed as well.

That then gives us Mario with 454 even strength or shorthanded goals in 910 games. vs Wayne with 690 even strength or shorthanded goals in 1487 games (which works out to 422 goals in 910 games).

What about Wayne's 55 career empty net goals, do they count?

Really, what I said is unimportant...

The bottom line is, we are looking at Wayne's #s vs. Mario's...

If you want to take out Wayne's empty netters, you must also remove Mario's.

In the end though, the point I am making, still stands. Mario was far more reliant on the powerplay to boost his goal totals than Wayne ever was. In chooch terms, that means Mario spent his career whooping it up on the powerplay...

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11-26-2005, 10:02 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMoses
Really, what I said is unimportant...
Youre darn right it is.

You just got your little hairy *** handed to you, you gretzky sickophant .

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11-26-2005, 11:59 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Youre darn right it is.

You just got your little hairy *** handed to you, you gretzky sickophant .
Actually, I owned you...

I took every single point you tried to make, and slapped it back in your face as many have done to you before...

Does it ever get old?

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11-26-2005, 08:58 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMoses
Actually, I owned you...

I took every single point you tried to make, and slapped it back in your face as many have done to you before...

Does it ever get old?
Youre not smart enough to know when youre owned. Youve probably never heard of Richard Pound or Sudafed either.

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11-27-2005, 04:14 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Youre not smart enough to know when youre owned. Youve probably never heard of Richard Pound or Sudafed either.
Is that how you make it through life acting like such a moron but never noticing how stupid people think you are? Pump yourself full of Sudafed? Well, when the cocaine stops working, you've got to get creative I guess..

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11-27-2005, 04:40 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chooch
Youre darn right it is.

You just got your little hairy *** handed to you, you gretzky sickophant .

You mean sycophant?


Spelling and Grammar Police: p0wned!

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11-27-2005, 10:36 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by TransportedUpstater
You mean sycophant?


Spelling and Grammar Police: p0wned!
no, I meant sickophant

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12-02-2005, 02:35 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMoses
Is that how you make it through life acting like such a moron but never noticing how stupid people think you are? Pump yourself full of Sudafed? Well, when the cocaine stops working, you've got to get creative I guess..


"Is this is 5:00 Free Crack Giveaway?!?!?!?!"
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12-02-2005, 04:54 AM
  #67
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A guy critcizing Gretzky for being an amazing playmaker setting up goal after goal behind the net?


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