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A look at the first 10 games.

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Old
11-02-2003, 06:58 AM
  #1
Lowetide
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A look at the first 10 games.

Oilers are 4-5-1 after 10, and imo the record is a pretty accurate reflection of how good the team is/how well they've played. Here's my report card:

Steve Staios (2-4-6): Per 82: 16-33-49. If he puts up these numbers, the Oilers won't be able to sign him. Even without the offense, Staios has become the guy most likely to make the right play on the backline. A tribute to hard work, some solid coaching and incredible desire. GRADE: A

Ethan Moreau (3-1-4): Per 82: 25-8-33. Last man standing from the Marchant/Murray/Grier/Moreau group, Ethan has the best slap shot among the forwards but rarely hits the ocean. His physical style and heart are keys to this team, and as goes the 3line so go the Oilers. Playing the best hockey of his career right now. GRADE: A

Ales Hemsky (3-6-9): Projected over 82 games, he'll end up 25-49-74. MacT mentioned in the Journal this morning that he wants him to create more ice for himself 5x5. He's 20, that will come. GRADE: A-

Marty Reasoner (2-4-6): Per 82: 16-33-49. One of the reasons Edmonton was running around for awhile is that they tried elevating this guy to the 2line. He's miscast there, he's too valuable for our 2line. In today's NHL, a solid checking center with facoeff skills is vital. GRADE: A-

Raffi Torres (3-3-6): Per 82: 25-25-50. If this guy can score 20 a season, he'll be a major star. Seems to forget to hit people for periods of time. One thing I will say for him is that he seems to show up on the hot line with frequency. B+

Mike York (3-5-8): Per 82: 25-41-66. It's been a funny start to the season for York. He's looked ineffective at times, and last night was the other side of that, he was clearly an impact player. Breathtaking passer. GRADE: B

Ryan Smyth (4-3-7): Per 82: 33-25-58. He's gone on record saying center makes it easier for him to pick his spots, and may lead to less wear and tear and a season without injury. HUGE adjustment, though, and he's been schooled at certain times and looked lost other times. Kudos to him for even trying. GRADE: B

Marc Andre Bergeron (2-2-4): 16-16-32. This guy is a coach killer one minute and the best player on the ice the next minute. His player type is my least favourite player type (chaos dman), but Bergeron recognizes his mistakes and is accountable. The only thing to do is send him out there and let him learn. It's silly he wasn't drafted, this guy will outperform most 2nd rounders from his draft season. GRADE: B

Cory Cross: (1-3-4): Per 82: 8-24-32. The original Denver Boot skater, Cross is a smart cookie. He really is good at using his size as a weapon, and his positioning is the best on the team. I like him on this team because he can really help Brewer and Semenov by slowing the game down for them and showing them how it's done. GRADE: B

Fernando Pisani (1-3-4). Per 82: 8-24-32. Fernando has 10% of the talent Dan Cleary has, and 140% the heart, PLUS a large tablespoon of smarts. GRADE: B-

Ty Conklin (1-1, 1.75). Probably the Oilers starting goalie next season (whenever that is), Conklin would have played much more if not for the injury. Has been activated, and will probably play 3 games or more in the next ten. If he does well, Conklin and Salo could be sharing duties by the All Star break. GRADE: B-

Jason Smith (2-1-3). Per 82: 16-8-24. I still don't know why he went after that hit against Calgary a week last night (play resulted in a two on one and the killer goal), but he's been a rock and laid out some forwards. Fear Factor is pretty high because he MIGHT be on the ice. GRADE: B-

Radek Dvorak (0-4-4). Per 82: 0-33-33. The fact that he's even playing is incredible. This guy is Superman if you ask me, and his improved play in the last two games shows everything you need to know about him. GRADE: B- (Character: A++)

Alexei Semenov (1-0-1). Per 82: 8-0-8. I love the guy, even when he screws up. Made a terrible pass last night, but has calm feet. At his age, that's unusal. Future all star. GRADE: B-

Eric Brewer (0-3-3). Per 82: 0-25-25. He is not good enough to step up into the lead role--yet. Personally, I love the guy, but he seems to lack confidence at times. I keep hoping he'll play with Staios. GRADE: C.

Scott Ferguson (0-2-2). Per 82: 0-16-16. His patented play is ripping the puck off the glass, and out. He's abandoned that play lately, and will soon be reading about Allen or Lynch in Edmonton if he keeps it up. GRADE: C-.

Tommy Salo (3-4-1, 3.48). He played pretty well last night, hopefully he'll get his confidence back. If he plays like this for another 20 games, the Oilers will find another option. If he doesn't recover be the end of the season, he may be playing his last NHL season. Currently on a two year downward spiral while being the highest paid player on a small market team. Perhaps he should give Arturs Irbe a call for motivation.
GRADE: D.

Brad Isbister (1-1-2). Per 82: 8-8-16. He's quickly turning the Niinimaa/Isbister deal into the Niinimaa/Torres trade. I know he played well the other night, but so the hell what? Million dollar talent, ten cent head. GET IN THERE! GRADE: D.

Shawn Horcoff: (1-3-4). Per 82: 8-24-32. It pains me to say this, because I completely disagree with the negative comments and nicknames he's been given on this board. However, he hasn't played as well as he can, or as well as he needs to in order to succeed. Horcoff has to play well to stay in the league, and you can see him sliding toward the press box slowly but surely. I wonder if that summer workout didn't take all his energy. GRADE: D

Georges Laraque: (0-1-1). Per 82: 0-8-8. Many years ago, the Montreal Canadiens had a terrific top 4 dman set, with Pierre Bouchard as the 5th man. He couldn't skate, shoot, think, and got about 4 minutes a night, but he was very popular with fans so ended up playing a bunch of games for them. The Habs had better options, but kept bringing Bouchard back each season. Laraque is quickly becoming less hockey player and more Pierre Bouchard. If he has another gear, it would behoove him to shift PDQ. GRADE: D

Jason Chimera (1-1-2). Per 82: 8-8-16. Pretty quiet 10 games for Chimera, but in fairness to him he's been the odd man out for the most part. Still, he was given a chance to emerge in the 10 games, moving up to the top 2lines for a spell, and didn't deliver. GRADE: D.

JARRET STOLL/TONY SALMELAINEN: Incomplete.

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11-02-2003, 07:47 AM
  #2
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lowetide - very concise. i always enjoy reading your stuff because you have the ability to be objective (something sorely lacking by most posters here - myself included on occasion [ie: my rants about cory cross]). i'd have to say that i agree with just about everything you wrote with the following exceptions/amendments:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
Marty Reasoner (2-4-6): Per 82: 16-33-49. One of the reasons Edmonton was running around for awhile is that they tried elevating this guy to the 2line. He's miscast there, he's too valuable for our 2line. In today's NHL, a solid checking center with facoeff skills is vital. GRADE: A-
i agree with the rating but not with the 3rd line logic. personally, i don't understand why the third line couldn't include some talent instead of pisani. marty has the ability to score (as does moreau) and i like them together. why limit them by insisting they are "checkers"? i look at them as solid 2-way players - dvorak and york also qualify here. my point? why not put dvorak or even salmo on their wing? hmmm... it occurs to me that i do, in fact, agree with your reasoner comments. i just really don't see any value to pisani. i guess i'll rant about him now...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
Fernando Pisani (1-3-4). Per 82: 8-24-32. Fernando has 10% of the talent Dan Cleary has, and 140% the heart, PLUS a large tablespoon of smarts. GRADE: B-
it boggles my mind that you would give him a B- rating. he's shown the "heart" you describe in (maybe) 4 games. other than that he has shown the "10% of Dan Cleary's talent" that you also describe. i would LOVE to see a legitimate two-way talent on the wing with reasoner and moreau. that could seriously amount to a 3rd line that can outscore the other team's top line. i honestly think that salmo could fit the bill here. if they bring him in early and teach him to play "defense first" his speed and shot could bring a very exciting dimension to the 3rd line. pisani, on the other hand, brings nothing but some occasional "heart" to the third line. frankly, i think that reasoner and moreau create more offense when they are killing a penalty and pisani is on the bench... GRADE: C-


Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
Shawn Horcoff: (1-3-4). Per 82: 8-24-32. It pains me to say this, because I completely disagree with the negative comments and nicknames he's been given on this board. However, he hasn't played as well as he can, or as well as he needs to in order to succeed. Horcoff has to play well to stay in the league, and you can see him sliding toward the press box slowly but surely. I wonder if that summer workout didn't take all his energy. GRADE: D
there's the objectivity i was talking about. i know you really like this guy and yet you still gave him the rating he deserved (note that i refrained from commenting on cross). however, he only deserves a D if you still think he has top 6 potential. i maintain that he does not. he is a dan cleary clone - talent with no sense. as a 4th line center he has still been subpar but more in the C+ range. i really don't expect much from 4th line players other than some emotion and a one or two decent scoring chances per game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
Jason Chimera (1-1-2). Per 82: 8-8-16. Pretty quiet 10 games for Chimera, but in fairness to him he's been the odd man out for the most part. Still, he was given a chance to emerge in the 10 games, moving up to the top 2lines for a spell, and didn't deliver. GRADE: D.
this guy doesn't need a ticket to the press box - he needs a ticket to the 'runners (or better yet another franchise in a comrie package). the oilers need to move him out and rita in. give rita a regular shift on the 4th line with some occasional PP time and he will deliver more than chimera every night. chimera is taking his spot for granted and is quickly becoming a scott fraser (moderate talent + ego = end of career). GRADE: F

anyway, nice work lowetide. as always, some great food for thought!

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11-02-2003, 08:07 AM
  #3
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Great post Lowetide. Thanks for giving my son Marty his due.....lol.

I pretty much follow the same line a LD on this one.

Pretty damn good objective assessment LT.

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11-02-2003, 08:30 AM
  #4
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Oilers are 4-5-1 after 10, and imo the record is a pretty accurate reflection of how good the team is/how well they've played

Haha.

The team is bottom 3 in GAA

The goaltending is minor league

The forwards are inconsistent

Can't win unless scoring 4 goals



This team is going nowhere fast. They won't be able to score that many goals two months in to the season.

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11-02-2003, 08:40 AM
  #5
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Have to agree about Pisani - I would have given him a D+, or C- at best. He's nowhere near the player he was last year (similar to Horcoff) but at least had a better game last night.

I also think Salo is closer to a C- so far...hasn't been the sole reason the Oilers have lost games, but hasn't really won (stole) any for them yet either. To be fair, I'd say that most of his goals would have gone in on most goaltenders, but there are still more that he probably should have stopped as well. Middle of the road, but the Oilers need far better than that from him to be successful (i.e., make the playoffs again). Wouldn't be surprised to see Conklin start the next game if he's really healed enough.

Also must conclude with a heartfelt thanks to lowetide for the great breakdown of the players - fun to discuss! I especially liked the two-word description of MAB: "chaos d-man"!

Bart

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11-02-2003, 10:24 AM
  #6
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I agree with you on pretty much everything...

except on Tommy Salo

His numbers dont reflect his play, some of the goals have been very costly defensive errors. Two games we lost when Tommy was in net, the Oilers were shut out. The Detroit game for example, played great in my opinion making some big saves, the goals he gave up were from some defensive breakdowns.
If the defence improves mentally, Tommy Salo's numbers will go down i.e. G.A.A. and up i.e. Wins, Save%

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11-02-2003, 11:07 AM
  #7
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Good call on Pisani, Lowtide, recognizing that he is 100% heart by
his efforts; unlike IMO Horcoff, and Isbister who are all
over the map with their inconsistant play. MacT sure likes him.
Lawndemon made sucha good point that the Moreau - Reasoner- ____
3rd line would really benefit from some talent on that line.
To me, York really fits the bill who is a very good two-way player. He sure is clicking with Dvorak. Makes for awesome plays.
Come to think of it, that IMO while we do have matched chemistry players, like Smyth & Hemsky, York & Dvorak, Moreau & Reasoner, each of the lines need the third player on the line to really step up.
Best bet is Torres if MacT quits juggling him around

IMO, if the Oil are going to do better this year, it'll be by having all the lines capable of putting up numbers and improved powerplay.

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11-02-2003, 11:39 AM
  #8
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Agree on quite a few points, especially Salo, Horcoff, Isbister, Brewer, Ferguson.

Have to disagree with what to do with Marty. We should change the system to fit the team, not the team to fit the system. Put him on the "2nd line" and let them go against #1 lines. Also, put him on the 2nd PP unit. I really don't know why they won't. If you gave Marty a skilled winger and a solid 2-way guy, you'd have a very good line on your hands. York-Reasoner-Dvorak maybe? I really want someone for Marty to pass to. Both those guys fit the bill. All is contingent however on either signing Comrie or getting a fwd back, because the first line needs someone, either from the trade or from that 2nd line. Izzy should be on the 3rd line right now, simply not playing well enough to be on the top unit.

Think Ethan may be rated a little high. He's playing well, but I'm not sure if he qualifies for an A.

It's really not good to see some of those players at the bottom. Chimera, Isbister, Brew, Salo, these guys can't be our worst players if we're going to have a successful year obviously. Honestly I didn't expect Horcoff to be anywhere else, so his being down there doesn't surprise me.

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11-02-2003, 11:49 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupBound
This team is going nowhere fast. They won't be able to score that many goals two months in to the season.
Well this comment certainly deserves to be rated Triple "A" ... of course I'd be talking about the cup size of the brassiere that has, once again, become wrapped to tightly around the headcase of our favourite cross-addressing poster's heavily boneheaded cranial region. This is what happens when, year after year, Calgary lets their sorry fanatics down with their annual playoff run - Flameout. The stress gets to much for SmallCups when all he can get overly excited about is last summer's big news out of CowTown when the Flamers' "signed for $500K" LW Oliwa. http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.p...=1351#post1351

But take heart, albeit, with that shrivelled blackened organ that beats so need-a-ly. Professionals can help you from acting-out in this childish and self-abusive manner. This desperate attempt to just be notice even if only with negative reinforcement is pathetic indeed, the first step towards recovery is to stop coming to the Oilers' Threads here at HFBoards. :moon:

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11-02-2003, 11:58 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OYLer
Well this comment certainly deserves to be rated Triple "A" ... of course I'd be talking about the cup size of the brassiere that has, once again, become wrapped to tightly around the headcase of our favourite cross-addressing poster's heavily boneheaded cranial region. This is what happens when, year after year, Calgary lets their sorry fanatics down with their annual playoff run - Flameout. The stress gets to much for SmallCups when all he can get overly excited about is last summer's big news out of CowTown when the Flamers' "signed for $500K" LW Oliwa. http://www.hfboards.com/showthread.p...=1351#post1351

But take heart, albeit, with that shrivelled blackened organ that beats so need-a-ly. Professionals can help you from acting-out in this childish and self-abusive manner. This desperate attempt to just be notice even if only with negative reinforcement is pathetic indeed, the first step towards recovery is to stop coming to the Oilers' Threads here at HFBoards. :moon:
Great contribution to the thread there sparky, but can you tell me what your point was?

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11-02-2003, 12:11 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupBound
Great contribution to the thread there sparky, but can you tell me what your point was?
Well, spark less the point is that posts that make unsupported rash statements serve no pupose except to invite ridicule.

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11-02-2003, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OYLer
Well, spark less the point is that posts that make unsupported rash statements serve no pupose except to invite ridicule.
Unsupported? Have you seen the stat sheets?

It's one thing to be optimistic, but a whole other if you are blind to the truth and you seem to be a living proof of that.

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11-02-2003, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupBound
Unsupported? Have you seen the stat sheets?

It's one thing to be optimistic, but a whole other if you are blind to the truth and you seem to be a living proof of that.
I'm not quite sure what "a whole other" is but of which "stat sheets" do you speak?

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11-02-2003, 12:32 PM
  #14
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chimera is taking his spot for granted and is quickly becoming a scott fraser (moderate talent + ego = end of career)
I'm a bit of a Chimera fan and have to admit he is playing poorly right now. I'd hate to think it was due to his ego though. Is there something specific that indicates to you he has a rapidly inflating one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OYLer
Well, spark less the point is that posts that make unsupported rash statements serve no pupose except to invite ridicule.
I dont know, I'd have to agree with him. The oilers record right now is like a microcosm of the team. Average-at-best goaltending, a weak defence and inconsistant forwards tell the story. I'm not saying they don't have the potential to be a little or much better. If Salo regains his form of old, we trade for a dman to fill out the defence, guys like Hemsky, Horcoff, Chimera, Brewer step up their game or guys like Isbister, Laraque learn to play consistently we'll be a dangerous team. But then our record would reflect that.

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11-02-2003, 01:29 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupBound
Oilers are 4-5-1 after 10, and imo the record is a pretty accurate reflection of how good the team is/how well they've played

Haha.

The team is bottom 3 in GAA

The goaltending is minor league

The forwards are inconsistent

Can't win unless scoring 4 goals



This team is going nowhere fast. They won't be able to score that many goals two months in to the season.
Your presumptions are baseless. Everybody knows that the youngest team in the league is going to be inconsistnet. The team hasn't played NEARLY as good as it can/will, and they are only one game below .500! So spare me all this "goig nowhere fast" B.S.

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11-02-2003, 01:55 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconius
I dont know, I'd have to agree with him. The oilers record right now is like a microcosm of the team. Average-at-best goaltending, a weak defence and inconsistant forwards tell the story. I'm not saying they don't have the potential to be a little or much better. If Salo regains his form of old, we trade for a dman to fill out the defence, guys like Hemsky, Horcoff, Chimera, Brewer step up their game or guys like Isbister, Laraque learn to play consistently we'll be a dangerous team. But then our record would reflect that.
Maybe CupBound's comment caught me at the wrong time. I had just come in from shovelling snow off the sidewalks and driveway around the homestead. Being, at once, refreshed and annoyed by, the too early onset, of the wintry chill and a snowy reality, I was pleasantly delighted to come across the balanced comments by lowetide. The seeming glibness with which CupBound stated what seems obvious to him, just rubbed me the wrong way. Negative assertions more than positive statements, require proof complete with analysis in order to be constructive. Just tell us why in a few more words with some examples you have this opinion. I don't care about typos or spelling or fancy words if you deliver the goods, ideas come first with me.

An example is CupBound's comment: "Can't win unless scoring 4 goals" The Oilers defeated the Sharks 5 - 2 and Buffalo 4 - 1. So yes, the Oilers have proved they can win by scoring only 3 goals and/or 2 goals already this year. If the Oilers would have defeated the Flames in that deadly dull games in Calgary the 'Oil' lost (0 -1), then we would be reversed with CowTown in the Standings. Edmonton's blueliners have been very incontistent giving up way too many turnovers. This has resulted in more grade "A" scoring chances than any goalie should have to worry about much less stop in 20 games never mind 10. When the team in front of Tommy starts playing well defensively, then we will be able to assess if the "goaltending is minor league."

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11-02-2003, 03:07 PM
  #17
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[QUOTE=thome_26]Everybody knows that the youngest team in the league is going to be inconsistent. [QUOTE]


Oh...I don't know about that. There are more than a few Oiler fans that pin any loss, bad play, inconsistancy on MacTavish, Lowe or Salo.

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11-02-2003, 08:45 PM
  #18
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Oh...I don't know about that. There are more than a few Oiler fans that pin any loss, bad play, inconsistancy on MacTavish, Lowe or Salo.
Well finding a convenient scapegoat is way easier than gulping hard and admitting the existence of systemic, possibly incurable problems.

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11-03-2003, 12:41 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by oilswell
Well finding a convenient scapegoat is way easier than gulping hard and admitting the existence of systemic, possibly incurable problems.
I'm personally just trying to blame all the losses on Comrie myself. Might as well get a good hate on for him now...

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11-03-2003, 06:51 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemmer
I'm personally just trying to blame all the losses on Comrie myself. Might as well get a good hate on for him now...
Solid strategy.

I try to pin everything on Vaclav Varada because, well, it just feels so good.

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11-03-2003, 07:15 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemmer
I'm personally just trying to blame all the losses on Comrie myself. Might as well get a good hate on for him now...

I'll go get my pitchfork and light my torch. Meet you in the town square at dusk. Off to the Brick we go...

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11-03-2003, 07:19 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilswell
Well finding a convenient scapegoat is way easier than gulping hard and admitting the existence of systemic, possibly incurable problems.
LOL...

Why try and find a fault with the play of all 20 guys, when you only need to actually work at faulting Pisani and Salo...

I mean, it's less work, and you can always find a mob to support anything.

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