He was not very good at locating quality d-men, bringing in bust after bust and giving minute to Ian Moran, Janne Laukkanen, Hans Jonsson... also trading Zubov for the other Hatcher. Of course, the worst trade he made was Naslund to VAN.
Given that my only significant criticism of Howson is his troubles with defensemen, that's not very reassuring.
(Yes, yes, don't mind me; I'm the local Howson fangirl. I'm sure you know the type. )
But, hey, anything that can get the rest of the team into better shape would be great.
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Thanks, Howson, for cleaning up MacLean's toxic waste. Welcome, Kekalainen; let's get good things built!
Patrick's performance has been uneven. He built a great Pens team in the late 80's early 90's and made a bunch of boneheaded moves later, causing the Pens to be so bad they drafted 1st or 2nd for 4 consecutive years.
I hope the Jackets get the good Patrick. I think he has a tendency to take boom/bust type risks regularly.
It's hard to predict which Patrick we have hired but at the very least he will provide a new voice in the office. As an advisor to Howson he won't be making any decisions, it will be interesting to interpret his impact on the team.
First, Craig has in all account seemed like a great person. In regards to his uneven resume, the last stretch of tank jobs was in most part due to bankruptcy that led to trading away Jagr, Kovalev, and Straka for nothing as well as letting a then productive Robert Lang walk away.
He was not very good at locating quality d-men, bringing in bust after bust and giving minute to Ian Moran, Janne Laukkanen, Hans Jonsson... also trading Zubov for the other Hatcher. Of course, the worst trade he made was Naslund to VAN. On the other side of things he made some tremendous deals and tanked at the right time.
For the post that said it could be the end of the 'country club', it was in removing CP as GM that helped usher out the country club of the Penguins to a new generation.
He has an incredibly bright hockey mind, and I believe from observing all of these post-lockout seasons he should have a strong grasp on what does and does not work in the new NHL.
I wish him the very best of luck and hope he can elevate your team into a consistent playoff team and ultimately Stanley Cup contender. Be patient, because he's dealing with a clown GM.
I often wondered if the d-men situation was a matter of bad selection or simply a matter of allocation of funds. Baldwin was a horrible owner and by the time you had the likes of Ian Moran (a fine Ohio boy) playing regularly, I have to wonder if it was for budgetary reasons--i.e. a lot of cash tied up in the likes of Jagr, Lemieux and Francis so money had to be saved somewhere.
Honestly, I'd be fine with Patrick replacing Priest, but I don't know that I want him to replace Howson. Craig's last few years in Pittsburgh I wondered if he just wasn't cut out for the "new NHL" from the GM perspective. Nonetheless, he is exactly what we need in our current situation for the role he's filling and he'd be absolutely perfect to find the right guy to replace Howson/Arniel when the time comes.
Patrick was just in one place way too long. He needed a change of scenery and getting back into the NHL in a new organization should be good for him.
He had a rough stretch in the mid to late 90's when it came to drafting and some of the trades. I still wouldn't completely blame the team falling apart in the early 2000's on him though. He built a good team on a shoestring budget, but it ultimately fell apart because of financial reasons.
He did make some horrible moves in free agency after the lockout which probably cost him his job.
We do still have some of his draft picks on the team like Brooks Orpik, Kris Letang, Tyler Kennedy, Marc-Andre Fleury, Joe Vitale and some no-brainer picks he made like Crosby and Malkin. He also drafted guys like Ryan Whitney, Matt Moulson and Alex Goligoski etc. But he still had some horrible drafts. I guess that's just the mixed bag you get with every GM's drafting though.
So, is his only real power likely to be finding people to replace Howson and/or Arniel at some point in time? (In which case, what happens if he approves of both of them, and he and Howson agree on pretty much everything?)
So, is his only real power likely to be finding people to replace Howson and/or Arniel at some point in time? (In which case, what happens if he approves of both of them, and he and Howson agree on pretty much everything?)
I've heard his role will be in free agency, trades, and prospects in the organization.
So, I'd imagine he'd likely find a replacement for Howson if/when that happens.
My son-in-law grew up in Wheeling until he moved here and married my daughter. Huge Pens fan, which of course most of Wheeling is.
He loved this hire. He felt that Patrick took more blame than he deserved for the collapse of the Pens. It had much more to do with money, and small market woes.
Now, we just need Priest to handle the business and corporate side of things, and let Patrick handle the hockey operations side of things.
You all know that this appears to mean that Howson has a real hockey guy that he must justify his moves to, and answer to?
My son-in-law grew up in Wheeling until he moved here and married my daughter. Huge Pens fan, which of course most of Wheeling is.
He loved this hire. He felt that Patrick took more blame than he deserved for the collapse of the Pens. It had much more to do with money, and small market woes.
Now, we just need Priest to handle the business and corporate side of things, and let Patrick handle the hockey operations side of things.
You all know that this appears to mean that Howson has a real hockey guy that he must justify his moves to, and answer to?
This hire gets me excited to see that the top wants to get better rather than watch the erosion continue. It may do nothing for this season's W/L record, but it brings in some hockey competence to add to what is seemingly slim.
The first of hopefully, many, good hires ahead. Any hire for an advisor is long overdue. Lack of league experience within the organization has kept them in this prepetual state of still birth since the beginning. Let's hope this is the beginning of the end of the beginning. Checks and balances are a good thing, having another highly placed, knowledgable, paid opinion, never hurts.
Last edited by KeithBWhittington: 12-07-2011 at 09:48 PM.
Patrick's performance has been uneven. He built a great Pens team in the late 80's early 90's and made a bunch of boneheaded moves later, causing the Pens to be so bad they drafted 1st or 2nd for 4 consecutive years.
I hope the Jackets get the good Patrick. I think he has a tendency to take boom/bust type risks regularly.
Pittsburgh fan here. Craig did an unbelievable job especially in the later years. Unfortunately he had to sell off his biggest assets just to make payroll(jagr). Crosby and Malkin were no brainers but he traded up for fleury and also drafted Kennedy, Orpik, Letang, Scuderi, talbot, Goligoski, and signed Gonchar. All of these guys won the 2009 Stanley Cup. Plus Whitney was traded for Kunitz.
Pittsburgh fan here. Craig did an unbelievable job especially in the later years. Unfortunately he had to sell off his biggest assets just to make payroll(jagr). Crosby and Malkin were no brainers but he traded up for fleury and also drafted Kennedy, Orpik, Letang, Scuderi, talbot, Goligoski, and signed Gonchar. All of these guys won the 2009 Stanley Cup. Plus Whitney was traded for Kunitz.
Wow, hopefully he is as solid here as he was with you guys. Thanks to all the Pittsburgh fans for the insight, it provides a little hope for our dark fanbase.
It would be wonderful if Patrick could impart some wisdom on GMSH and replicate the bag of pucks for Ron Francis and Ulf Samuelson deal he pulled in 91.
(My apologies to Zarley Zalapski. He will always be a legend in Western PA for being 1/4 of the "double trouble" club but otherwise had an unremarkable career)
So we scream about not getting someone to understand the kids and then hire Grandpa? We hire the same guy that was responsible for separating Jagr from the Pens?
So we scream about not getting someone to understand the kids and then hire Grandpa? We hire the same guy that was responsible for separating Jagr from the Pens?
No.
Now, I have no idea whether Patrick is ultimately going to prove to have been a successful hire, but I'm not sure I follow you here. He's not going to coach. Who was screaming about this?
Do you have any idea the tenor of the relationship between Jagr and the Pens at the time? You think you've seen bad attitudes and floaters on the Jackets? Not to mention the financial state of that organ-eye-zation?
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Last edited by Double-Shift Lassé: 12-08-2011 at 05:46 AM.
I have previously said I want the "senior hockey mind" to be the decider (replace Priest) rather than the adviser. Nevertheless this is a good move. Regardless of how the position is labeled or where it fits in the table of organization, the addition of someone with his resume to the decision making process of this franchise can only be an improvement.
So we scream about not getting someone to understand the kids and then hire Grandpa? We hire the same guy that was responsible for separating Jagr from the Pens?
No.
You forget Jagr used to be a primadona.
I don't know why we hired Patrick. We have plenty of hockey people in the office. Perhaps this is a precursor/preparation for more moves?
Now, I have no idea whether Patrick is ultimately going to prove to have been a successful hire, but I'm not sure I follow you here. He's not going to coach. Who was screaming about this?
Do you have any idea the tenor of the relationship between Jagr and the Pens at the time? You think you've seen bad attitudes and floaters on the Jackets? Not to mention the financial state of that organ-eye-zation?
Yes, I know he isn't going to coach. I used screaming instead of whining.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JACKETfan
You forget Jagr used to be a primadona.
I don't know why we hired Patrick. We have plenty of hockey people in the office. Perhaps this is a precursor/preparation for more moves?
No, I didn't forget. Neither did he. All I see out of this is that he was used to come in and clean up Pens mess with spending. I see the move as either getting in a head hunter to clean up Howson's mess or another bean counter. Hope I'm wrong cause we all have our favorites.
And to be honest, I wouldn't be making such a face if Howson was gone.
Yes, I know he isn't going to coach. I used screaming instead of whining.
Still not sure I follow what the ":whining" is about and how this has anythign to do with it.
Quote:
No, I didn't forget. Neither did he. All I see out of this is that he was used to come in and clean up Pens mess with spending. I see the move as either getting in a head hunter to clean up Howson's mess or another bean counter. Hope I'm wrong cause we all have our favorites.
You need to find out more about his tenure with the Pens, then.
Quote:
And to be honest, I wouldn't be making such a face if Howson was gone.
You don't approve of Patrick, but you would if it meant Howson had been fired?
Would a move like this have been made without the fans and Dispatch, basically, calling for it the last two seasons?
I don't know, really.
I look at it this way, we have another set of eyes and ears... one that has more experience than most of our front office, someone who's eyes and ears and words are respected. Someone who's been a GM and a coach and a player and had to deal with massive player egos, someone who has the scars to prove it. Patrick is, without a doubt, one of the top guys for this position. (Everyone knows my unhealthy desire to see Rick Dudley here, so certainly he was on the list as well)
Don't think of it being simply Patrick waiting to swoop in, have Howson and Arniel Canned so he can take Howson's place, look at like a chance to have someone else, someone respected, watching and giving input on the situation, if changes need made, make them. But do them with a goal and a well-defined plan in mind.
I look at it this way, we have another set of eyes and ears... one that has more experience than most of our front office, someone who's eyes and ears and words are respected. Someone who's been a GM and a coach and a player and had to deal with massive player egos, someone who has the scars to prove it. Patrick is, without a doubt, one of the top guys for this position. (Everyone knows my unhealthy desire to see Rick Dudley here, so certainly he was on the list as well)
Don't think of it being simply Patrick waiting to swoop in, have Howson and Arniel Canned so he can take Howson's place, look at like a chance to have someone else, someone respected, watching and giving input on the situation, if changes need made, make them. But do them with a goal and a well-defined plan in mind.
Still not sure I follow what the ":whining" is about and how this has anythign to do with it.
This organization seems to do the most hap-hazardous things with regard to managing. We, as fans, are concerned that we don't have the staff that is able to reach out and guide these kids. How often was the cry that Hitch did not know how to manage kids? Yes, I know this guy isn't coaching. With the addition of Arniel it seemed that we were embracing the younger leadership to address that issue and also move more toward the new NHL. With this addition, it contradicts that. To me. And probably only to me. LOL
You need to find out more about his tenure with the Pens, then.
Probably
You don't approve of Patrick, but you would if it meant Howson had been fired?
Again, it's probably just me, but I see it as an obvious strong arm move to clean up, which we probably need to do, but I just fear I'm not gonna like it once it begins. I'm well aware of what he did in Pitt. Some would say he removed the country club atmosphere and put the Pens on a winning course. Corporations hire those type all the time when a change in direction is needed. I'm all for changing direction because I do find fault with the way this team has been led. BUT I think if you are serious about a change in leadership, then change the leadership. That's all I'm saying. Otherwise it's a joke.
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