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So the PK Subban honeymoon seems to be over

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Old
12-08-2011, 05:30 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
I watch every single Habs game. PK has been boo'd several times. He's being criticized a hell of a lot more as well. Read my entire post. I'm not JUST talking about the booing. I'm talking about the criticism.

It's funny cuz others in this thread have noticed the boos directed towards Subban.
Seems like you are the only one. The team PP is getting booed because in the past it was very successful and this year they have not found a way to find that past success.

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12-08-2011, 05:35 AM
  #77
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Just get over it. People at Bell Center boos. Big deal. Yes, we are not the best crowd. We're overrated. And again, I say, big deal. The people have had enough.

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12-08-2011, 06:47 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
You watched every game? Really? So have I.

Habs fans have booed the team for two reasons so far this season.

-Losing a game that they played crap in.
-Powerplay sucking the bag.

In regards to PK himself.

-Fans cheer him when he attempts rushing the puck up the ice. Every time.
-Fans cheer him when he hits someone in the corners. Every time.
-Fans cheer him when he scored his goal this season.
-Fans cheer him when he's on the starting line. Every time.

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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
This thread is absurd. It is the culmination of people's frustration's with the team. HA! Sean Avery wishes he had 5% of the talent PK does. Let's not get into the debate about whether PK is a dirty player. Pleeease. If you had a bullseye on your back like him, I'd love to see how you'd do. I thought we all agreed on at least that.

He is playing much better hockey than people think. He has to get the rush going all by himself cuz the fwds suck. I'll just say here that Gomez would help a lot no matter what you think he does with the puck past the O blue line. He has (Subban) incredible stickhandling, deking, speed, a hard shot, he plays more responsibly and logs massive minutes.

Has it really come to this? I would not be surprised if people start a "Price is overrated" thread the way we are eating ourselves alive to find a scapegoat.
Weird how some are losing their minds and emphatically saying the boos were not directed at him. Yet others are saying the bolded

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I remember a few games back him getting booed when he was cutting and turning back numerous times in our zone.

Also, to the people that are saying "JM is holding him back" what evidence, seriously, one thread of evidence, do you have to support this claim?

The simple fact is that he hasn't played that well, but he has been far from bad. Under the circumstances, I don't mind his play. But I have felt this year he has spent more energy trying to draw penalties than make great plays.
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Originally Posted by Optimus Price View Post
I did boo him, just like I booed every other players. But I can surely tell you that people in my section in the blues were indeed targeting him and were making fun of him very loudly, in which some others did join in. Besides, they didn't only booed him on the PP, he was also booed when he lost the puck on an opportunity or two, trying to do too much fancy stuff. All I'm saying is that he's deserving some boos, just like some of his teamates. But because he was piss poor yesterday, that made him an easy target by the crowd. I don't understand what's the big issue about him being booed anyway and the fact that you make me imply that it was just him is laughable at best, because I never made that assumption. But I guess you're right and I'm wrong, then. Morality of the thing is : Hopefully that light a fire under Subban's ass so he can play better, but in the end, it probably won't.
So, there are several people who WERE AT THE GAME who said fans were booing him. Those of you who jumped the gun and hurled insults my way. You should apologize.

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Old
12-08-2011, 06:48 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
Seems like you are the only one. The team PP is getting booed because in the past it was very successful and this year they have not found a way to find that past success.
Re read the thread properly and tell me I'm the only one again. I bet you won't.

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Old
12-08-2011, 06:49 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
i'm no fan of boo'ing your own players, but i believe the team got boo'ed, mostly for the PP, no PK specifically.
To be fair Webber has been so much worse than PK on the PP and that's really his only use.

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Old
12-08-2011, 07:53 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
He used to get booed in every opposing building in the league. Now he gets booed by his own fans.

Why are we booing a 22 year old 2nd year Dman who has been asked to lead this team? He's 1st in TOI, 1st in points, 2nd in +/-

Anyways, am I the only one who thinks the boos/criticism is a little harsh and unreasonable? He's getting booed for the same style of play he was getting cheered for last year.
When I first read the thread title to be quite honest I had my doubts the OP would be as intelligent as you are. Was expecting it to be a PK Subban bash fest in the OP glad to see it isn't.

Anyways PK has been shouldering the most minutes on a team decimated from injuries. People expecting him to have 20 points and 5 goals already need to get a clue. He's being forced to play an extremely disciplined game and not take offensive chances because he's now a leader on this team and has to lead by example. He can't take risks because he's now been thrust into the position of being a veteran d-man in only his 2nd season.

How some fans can not only boo PK but fail to understand this is beyond me. There are people on the main board claiming McD > Subban and honestly it just goes to show how much some people need to get a clue. McD is insulated by another top minute crunching d-man and is playing on a team having a lot of success. PK is playing on a team insulated by almost nobody, Josh Gorges has his own **** to worry about. He can't be constantly backing up PK. PK can only ever really take chances on the PP or when Gorges is on the ice. Even then he still has to lead by example.

He's been making mistakes but people have to realize he was always projected as more of an offensive minded two-way d-man and he's been forced to play a more defensive minded two-way game. On top of that it's the regular season and the guy is playing post season minutes. When you play 30+ minutes a game and you're sheltering some really green D from all the tough minutes you're bound to make mistakes. Guys like Rick Nash etc got to where they are in the NHL today by making d-men look stupid. Subban is no exception.

With how far along Subban is now and with a healthy D people are going to cry tears of joy when they see just how good this guy is. His statistics aren't even close to representative of how he's been playing. I never thought I'd say this but we need Spacek and Campoli back. Markov eventually. When Subban gets less minutes and sometimes better match ups he'll easily start to produce.

You can't rag on a guy for making mistakes when he's being played 30 minutes a night and expected to not only lead this team to victories via his offense but not allow goals to happen in his own end. It's a tremendous amount of pressure for a 22 year old in his second NHL season.

The people booing Subban should be ashamed of themselves. Absolutely pathetic. If it weren't for Subban, Price and Gorges... heck if one of those guys had been injured we'd be sitting in 30th.

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Old
12-08-2011, 07:55 AM
  #82
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Montreal fans are idiots, nothing new.

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Old
12-08-2011, 07:59 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by kempie View Post
Haven't seen this posted yet and I'm not doing it to stir **** up but PK was involved (again) in a bit of a thing at practice today, this time with DD and LL. Personally, I'm not surprised that things at practise are a bit testy these days. Anyway, FWIW, here's the clip:

http://tvasports.ca/video/1315056903001
I found that more hilarious than anything. People who think this is a big deal never played competitive hockey. I actually never did myself either but it was quite clear PK was just practicing with a lot of intensity. I don't think LL and DD were actually upset, DD was just giving PK a hard time for going so hard on a rookie. Personally I like the fact that in practices PK is so intense. Plus guys like LL need to practice against D who are going to push them around, guys like that need to find ways to play against guys bigger than them.

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12-08-2011, 08:02 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by kempie View Post
Haven't seen this posted yet and I'm not doing it to stir **** up but PK was involved (again) in a bit of a thing at practice today, this time with DD and LL. Personally, I'm not surprised that things at practise are a bit testy these days. Anyway, FWIW, here's the clip:

http://tvasports.ca/video/1315056903001
I also saw on RDS that he was cross checking back and forth with Kostitsyn, I don't think it's that big of a deal and I'm sure it happens all around the league just that we don't hear about it. When things are going well you don't hear this stuff, when team is playing like crap we see this, players get frustrated and it's normal

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12-08-2011, 08:04 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I found that more hilarious than anything. People who think this is a big deal never played competitive hockey. I actually never did myself either but it was quite clear PK was just practicing with a lot of intensity. I don't think LL and DD were actually upset, DD was just giving PK a hard time for going so hard on a rookie. Personally I like the fact that in practices PK is so intense. Plus guys like LL need to practice against D who are going to push them around, guys like that need to find ways to play against guys bigger than them.
The events in itself isn't revealing anything about the relation between these players. It could be business as usual, it could show a tightening of the bond between LL and DD, or it could mean the team is falling apart.

Who knows?

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12-08-2011, 08:09 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
I also saw on RDS that he was cross checking back and forth with Kostitsyn, I don't think it's that big of a deal and I'm sure it happens all around the league just that we don't hear about it. When things are going well you don't hear this stuff, when team is playing like crap we see this, players get frustrated and it's normal
It's not that you dont hear about it when teams are winning, you donthear anything because its not a big deal. If punches are thrown, then you will hear about it, but a few cross checks and shoving, that is called practicing.

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12-08-2011, 08:09 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
From what I have observed, the things people are saying about PK, i.e.
- sophmore slump
- fans aren't crazy about him anymore
- not a top target for opponents
- isn't a top tier D

are completely false. I don't put much stock in stats like turnovers cuz they can be misleading for a defenceman who carries the puck (although TOI is something to consider), but I've actually found his game to be the perfect balance between offence and defense, which is what we wanted. The only difference this year is that his one timers aren't going in. He's not scoring. That's the only difference I see. Otherwise I still think he's one of the best D in the league and certainly the perfect complement to Gorges. Honeymoon isn't over. Once the ship gets righted (I don't know how, but I think things will change for the better), threads like this will not exist. The team is sucking, but it's not him. Forwards need to finish. Point finale. It's not even the inexperienced D. Diaz and Emelin have been fine. Cammy/Gio are wayyy below their production potential and Patches and Cole can only do so much. They create chances, but lately not a lot of goals. As many have said before, it's funny how we continually take AK for granted when he is a goal scoring machine if you give him the chance.
This!!!! And put an "omgomgomgomg" to go with

It isn't really Diaz/Emelin's fault either, but I will say this having Markov, Spacek and Campoli back would certainly lighten the load for Subban and allow him to have more offensive risk taking.

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12-08-2011, 08:13 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Turtleneck Plek View Post
To this, I answer this:



So now, the only question is the following. Optimus Price, did you boo? If so, did you boo Subban or the PP? If not, how well do you think you can determine if the crowd was specifically booing Subban rather than booing our horrid PP, part of the boos coming while Subban was in possession of the puck?

Because it seems most people here believe the PP unit was being booed as a whole rather than Subban being booed because of his lack of production on said PP. To me this is a non-issue, but it seems to be such a big deal to the two people here who believe Subban was specifically targeted by the crowd.

Subban is a fan-favourite and while I myself sometimes get tired of his seven-feet-in-the-air windup, I really doubt the fans would consciously boo him specifically rather than the general, pathetic state of our PP.

However, you're right. They did boo him. The only thing is, they booed the other four skaters on the ice at that moment as well, and you can probably add the other PP unit to that too.

So to summarize. Could Subban play better? Yes. Do fans want him to play better? Yes. Are fans tired of our pathetic PP? Yes. Does Subban play a part in the success of said PP? Yes. Does Subban deserve boos for his lack of production on the PP? Probably so. More so than the other players on the ice? No. Rationally speaking, does it make sense that he was the sole victim of the boos? No. Did the fans intentionally boo him, and just him? Improbable at best.
Do none of you guys ever actually sit down and watch the game at a bar? Because some of these posts are laughable. Especially with the older generation I hear people criticizing PK all the time over his moves. A lot of people really surprisingly don't like him and don't respect the amount of minutes he eats up against top opposition. They're in the same boat as the rest of the other teams fan bases on PK.

In the Bell Center you act like you know what's going on in every individuals head and quite frankly neither you or the OP do so the fact that people try to act like they do is laughable. During the game people rag on the guy constantly at bars, every mistake he makes it's like "****ing Subban again! sigh". Some people were booing the PP but don't be naive, plenty were booing Subban as well.

I'm pretty sure if at a bar I can overhear people whining about Subban making mistakes and disliking him... with such a small sample of people... the same can be said about Zone Molson Ex or the bell center in general.

I mean honestly guys don't be so naive. The rest of the league hates the kid and even so do many in our fan base. It saddens me because PK is one of my favorite players but it's the truth. One would think judging from this thread none of you ever actually watched the game anywhere but your own living room.

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12-08-2011, 08:17 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
It's not that you dont hear about it when teams are winning, you donthear anything because its not a big deal. If punches are thrown, then you will hear about it, but a few cross checks and shoving, that is called practicing.
Exactly

Anyways I play hockey for fun and feel like cracking my teammates most of the time

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12-08-2011, 08:21 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Exactly

Anyways I play hockey for fun and feel like cracking my teammates most of the time
Likewise, and I do play aggressive with my buddies.

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12-08-2011, 08:27 AM
  #91
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I don't think Subban's critics doubt his talent. They're frustrated by his not matching last season's performance by quite a margin. A number of his fellow Dmen were injured last season too, including Markov and Gorges, and he had to play with Picard, Mara, and others who were not re-signed. The only stabilizing element was Hamrlik. Spacek had a poor season because he was overburdened.

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12-08-2011, 09:06 AM
  #92
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They were saying Sub-boo.

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12-08-2011, 10:06 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Do none of you guys ever actually sit down and watch the game at a bar? Because some of these posts are laughable. Especially with the older generation I hear people criticizing PK all the time over his moves. A lot of people really surprisingly don't like him and don't respect the amount of minutes he eats up against top opposition. They're in the same boat as the rest of the other teams fan bases on PK.

In the Bell Center you act like you know what's going on in every individuals head and quite frankly neither you or the OP do so the fact that people try to act like they do is laughable. During the game people rag on the guy constantly at bars, every mistake he makes it's like "****ing Subban again! sigh". Some people were booing the PP but don't be naive, plenty were booing Subban as well.

I'm pretty sure if at a bar I can overhear people whining about Subban making mistakes and disliking him... with such a small sample of people... the same can be said about Zone Molson Ex or the bell center in general.

I mean honestly guys don't be so naive. The rest of the league hates the kid and even so do many in our fan base. It saddens me because PK is one of my favorite players but it's the truth. One would think judging from this thread none of you ever actually watched the game anywhere but your own living room.
Don't get me wrong neo, I'm sure some people did boo him specifically and even hate him inside our fanbase. That's not what I disputed at all. I was just saying that in a general matter, it was evident that it was our PP being booed and not Subban specifically.

Drunk idiots in the nosebleeds will do any sort of stupid stuff to get people riled up, and I don't put it past them to boo Subban and throw insults at him. However, I believe, as do most people in this thread, that the boos were generally (outside of a few potential idiots) addressed to our PP unit on the ice. That's all.

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12-08-2011, 10:12 AM
  #94
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Booing PK ? well it had to come sometime.
You see he does NOT SPEAK FRENCH

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12-08-2011, 10:17 AM
  #95
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PK is the only player on the team who consistently has his name chanted in the Bell Centre, along with Carey. The fact that they were booing when he circled back was again about our inefficient PP. Give the puck to anyone else, they'd boo all the same. They were booing because they couldn't get out of the zone.

You're making it sound like this was a Gomez-like boo, it wasn't. Should they have stopped booing when Subban touched the puck?

I don't know how to further explain it to you.

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12-08-2011, 10:18 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
Booing PK ? well it had to come sometime.
You see he does NOT SPEAK FRENCH
Dude, abort. U don't wanna go there, trust me!!

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12-08-2011, 10:22 AM
  #97
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Montreal fans are idiots, nothing new.
This post sure makes you sound clever...

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12-08-2011, 11:02 AM
  #98
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what does everyone expect him to do exactly? Skate up the middle of the ice, deke 5 guys and score?
I consider myself to have pretty low expectations about any given player on the Habs. I don't expect the world from Subban, he is only 22.

Quote:
That is what I think is now the std for a "Subban great play". Anything else like putting the puck in the right spot, rushing it, but knowing when to pull back, taking more shots than other D, manning the blueline with poise (so he's made 3 or 4 flubs, look around the league, he's not alone).
He has made more than 3 or 4 flubs, he continually makes plays harder than they have to be, particularly when he is getting pressured as last man back.

Quote:
Hitting guys, pinning them, playing top minutes...these are not great plays. The only great play is for him to subby-doo every player, toe drag then slap shot through the goalie.
Never said this at all. I don't expect him to make flashy plays, and I always give him credit for a nice breakout pass or simple play.

Quote:
This whole mounting meme of him trying to draw penalties is IMO getting blown out of proportion. He gets beaten up all game and people whine cuz he actually does get hit in the face or cross checked or tripped. Ever think maybe he is gassed and tired of being pushed around? Wait until he plays 60% of his minutes and watch what he does.
Are you seriously going to argue that this year he hasn't put more of an emphasis on trying to draw penalties? Because he has, it is obvious. And sometimes I feel like he is more interested in drawing the penalty than actually making the play (whether this is a pass, a drive to the net, a shot ect.) and I don't like this. I want the kid to play hard until the whistle is blown, not try and draw penalties when we have a disgusting PP anyway.

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12-08-2011, 11:35 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
I don't think Subban's critics doubt his talent. They're frustrated by his not matching last season's performance by quite a margin. A number of his fellow Dmen were injured last season too, including Markov and Gorges, and he had to play with Picard, Mara, and others who were not re-signed. The only stabilizing element was Hamrlik. Spacek had a poor season because he was overburdened.
You forgot the heralded Gill. Oh wait..............he's still here.

Having said that...........I got the impression the boos were for the team. Although Subban does get carried away I expect it from a kid with his talent.

Management didn't bother to sign another legit top four d-man in case of the inevitable Markov injury. PK's in a tough spot. He gets more attention from the opposition because he is talented. Couple that with having to carry the load of defense whereby each d-man has his own question mark and limitations - it's truthfully what I expected. Struggles. By I'd never boo him - there are too many I'd boo before PK. I would boo the team first but frankly I don't like booing at all. LOL Except the refs and opposition.

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12-08-2011, 04:00 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
I don't think Subban's critics doubt his talent. They're frustrated by his not matching last season's performance by quite a margin. A number of his fellow Dmen were injured last season too, including Markov and Gorges, and he had to play with Picard, Mara, and others who were not re-signed. The only stabilizing element was Hamrlik. Spacek had a poor season because he was overburdened.
He also put up a boat load of points at the half-way mark of the season once he was paired with Wisniewski on the PP.

The fact our PP is as bad as it is, isn't helping his outlook at all. If Subban had an extra three goals right now (assume they are from the PP) and his stats look like this: 4G-10A-14PTS in 28 games. Prorated, well you get the idea, it's about 12G-29A-41PTS. Are people still complaining about his lack of production if those are his stats? Sure it would only be a marginal improvement over last season's totals but given the fact we've lost Hamrlik and Wisniewski, and still don't have Markov back.. I'd say most would take it into context and be satisfied with the level of production offensively.

The fact he's been used on the 2nd PP wave is just another sign of incompetant coaching by Martin and his zombie brothers.

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