A few weeks ago, we played Washington and the very next day Boudreau was fired. Analysts claimed that the Caps, the last few games before his firing had "quit on their coach".
Have the Sabres quit on Ruff? If not, is this a danger and how soon could it happen?
From what I've read, it certainly sounds like Vanek has. I would think that things like Grags obvious struggles and Ruff's continued instance that Grags gets icetime has to be wearing down some of the other guys, whether they realize it or not.
The one thing I think we can all agree upon is that the call ups haven't been the problem with this team. Those rookies want to be here and would follow the orders of pretty much anyone because they are so excited.
The vets? Totally different story. Most seem to be playing with a total lack of focus (interest?) and are the big reason as to why this team is in the position it finds itself in.
So, I guess my final answer is I don't know. They play well on the road but look awful at home. If they were playing awful on the road as well as at home, I would definitely jump on this bandwagon.
It's easy to think players have quit when you have rookies and grinders playing in roles that are realistically still over their heads, and players like Giroux and Datsuyk are skating circles around them, Timonen and Lidstrom are outsmaring them, and Jagr and Franzen outmuscling them.
These Sabres are a good team (not elite), with no elite players, but a bunch of good players, and they rely on their depth for a certain amount of success.
With these injuries, the depth is gone, and they really are just struggling through nearly every game.
It's easy to think players have quit when you have rookies and grinders playing in roles that are realistically still over their heads, and players like Giroux and Datsuyk are skating circles around them, Timonen and Lidstrom are outsmaring them, and Jagr and Franzen outmuscling them.
These Sabres are a good team (not elite), with no elite players, but a bunch of good players, and they rely on their depth for a certain amount of success.
With these injuries, the depth is gone, and they really are just struggling through nearly every game.
What would you call a Pittsburgh Penguins squad - Crosby Malkin and Staal that had a winning record during the entire stretch without their stars. Our 'stars' are healthy and aren't doing jack ****.
I don't think they've quit on him... i just don't think he's a very good coach. I think the net affect of his decisions in game and out, have an overall negative affect leading to losing
What would you call a Pittsburgh Penguins squad - Crosby Malkin and Staal that had a winning record during the entire stretch without their stars. Our 'stars' are healthy and aren't doing jack ****.
An elite team.
Which the Sabres aren't.
The Pens are so much more than their centers today.
Letang, Michalek, Orpik, Martin.... Their D is elite.
Secondary scoring adequate, especially with Neal working out, and the best grinders in the game in the bottom-6.
What would you call a Pittsburgh Penguins squad - Crosby Malkin and Staal that had a winning record during the entire stretch without their stars. Our 'stars' are healthy and aren't doing jack ****.
The Pens made adjustments to their roster last summer (2010) that enabled them to play a strong defensive game if needed. They added two defensive dmen (Michalik/Martin) to their top 4 to go with the one they already had (Orpick). When their top guys went out they were able to adapt to their losses. Bylsma is also a great coach.
Its a lot easier to lean on a defensive approach when top offensive guys are out. As opposed to trying to keep play an uptempo attacking style missing key dmen relied on to facilitate it. We've also tried to play a more defensive game at times with the injuries but don't have the players to do it.
But not having the players to play a more defensive style when necessary is still on Ruff since he had a big influence on the makeup of this roster.
Most teams struggle or at least aren't at their best when top players are out. Lets not forget that the Pens with their two best players out finished in 8th and were knocked out of the playoffs in round one. Thats certainly a drop off from what would be expected with Crosby and Malkin in the linup. So lets not pretend they were the same team.
I don't think they've quit on him... i just don't think he's a very good coach. I think the net affect of his decisions in game and out, have an overall negative affect leading to losing
You don't become the winningest coach with one team in NHL history by being a bad coach. He's only had 2 really great teams and the in 06 the only reason they didn't win the Cup is because they suffered a rash of injuries that nobody could have coached them out of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5 Minute Major
Maybe they have.
The one thing I think we can all agree upon is that the call ups haven't been the problem with this team. Those rookies want to be here and would follow the orders of pretty much anyone because they are so excited.
The vets? Totally different story. Most seem to be playing with a total lack of focus (interest?) and are the big reason as to why this team is in the position it finds itself in.
So, I guess my final answer is I don't know. They play well on the road but look awful at home. If they were playing awful on the road as well as at home, I would definitely jump on this bandwagon.
I just think the message has gone stale rather than anybody necessarily quitting on him. The vets have been here long enough that they've been hearing the same message for so long, they just don't respond anymore. Doesn't mean they've quit on him, but it also doesn't mean that Ruff is the best man for the job right now either.
As I posted in the GBU, last night was the first time I've though that maybe Ruff is the problem here. I've always been in his corner but something is not right with this team.
The Pens are so much more than their centers today.
Letang, Michalek, Orpik, Martin.... Their D is elite.
Secondary scoring adequate, especially with Neal working out, and the best grinders in the game in the bottom-6.
You would call the Penguins an elite team without Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin and Jordan Staal in the lineup? What makes them elite? They have bottom 6 grinders that actually step up when injuries happen? The defense is elite, Martin is not as good as you say he is, Orpik, Letang and Michalek are very good though. What separates our stars from contributing on a daily basis like the Penguins grinders did with their lack of star power up front.
You don't become the winningest coach with one team in NHL history by being a bad coach. He's only had 2 really great teams and the in 06 the only reason they didn't win the Cup is because they suffered a rash of injuries that nobody could have coached them out of.
I just think the message has gone stale rather than anybody necessarily quitting on him. The vets have been here long enough that they've been hearing the same message for so long, they just don't respond anymore. Doesn't mean they've quit on him, but it also doesn't mean that Ruff is the best man for the job right now either.
As I posted in the GBU, last night was the first time I've though that maybe Ruff is the problem here. I've always been in his corner but something is not right with this team.
You've encapsulated my thoughts. While they work on moving the dead wood, they need a fresh voice that might get them hustling to make simple, smart hockey plays.
I don't see the team jumping out to a 3-0 lead on the Flyers last night if they have quit on their coach.
The message may have gotten stale. But, the injury situation is ridiculous and I still have my doubts about major pieces of the Rochester Core. Vanek and Pominville are the only two parts of the Rochester Core that I'm real happy with this season.
And for better or worse, that is the Core of the team.
They can get a new voice in there and I don't know that it will change much.
Just like I don't expect Dale Hunter to change the fact that Semin is a dog and the Caps have serious flaws with the way their team is built.
But, it looks like the patient GM has bosses that are even more patient than he is......
From what I've read, it certainly sounds like Vanek has. I would think that things like Grags obvious struggles and Ruff's continued instance that Grags gets icetime has to be wearing down some of the other guys, whether they realize it or not.
Excellent point. The Grags situation HAS to be contract related. The want to trade him at the deadline, but at what cost? Missing the playoffs?
Grags isn't as bad as he has been exagerated to be, but he's not good.
There appears to be a rift between Vanek and Ruff. I thing Ruff is trying to impose his will and Vanek has a bad attitude right now.
You would call the Penguins an elite team without Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin and Jordan Staal in the lineup? What makes them elite? They have bottom 6 grinders that actually step up when injuries happen? The defense is elite, Martin is not as good as you say he is, Orpik, Letang and Michalek are very good though. What separates our stars from contributing on a daily basis like the Penguins grinders did with their lack of star power up front.
They're elite in the way that with a full line-up, they're elite.
The drop from elite (without their top-3 players) is to good.
The drop for a good team without their top players, more than likely, is to bad.
The Pens simply adjusted last season and changed up to a more defensive style of play, and they have the players to do so.
The Sabres don't.
I don't beleive the team has "quit" on Ruff per say.
I do believe Ruff has quit on the team though.
Lindy can only do so much with the talent he is given by Regier, and in this case, they have repeatedly failed to address the center situation and move some of these "streaky", less productive players off of the roster.
I blame Regier more than Ruff, especially for a player like Stafford, who was known to be streaky, had a decent season last year and his value was at it's peak. Prime time to move him for something that we truly needed. Instead, what does Regier do, he keeps Stafford and doesn't address the center position that could possibly make him better.
Its been the same story for the Sabres since Briere and Drury left. Once those 2 were gone, any help from down the middle completely evaporated and Regier never addressed it. Therefore, our wingers suffer.
Excellent point. The Grags situation HAS to be contract related. The want to trade him at the deadline, but at what cost? Missing the playoffs?
Grags isn't as bad as he has been exagerated to be, but he's not good.
There appears to be a rift between Vanek and Ruff. I thing Ruff is trying to impose his will and Vanek has a bad attitude right now.
This team is disfuctional.
I disagree on this, I know it's been speculated for a very long time that there is some kind of rift there. I 100% believe that Vanek would not have become the player he is right now (and still improving) without Ruff. Ruff knows he can come down on Vanek hard (and he certainly has) and Vanek more often than not responds. I have not seen a single thing this year that implies to me that Vanek has a bad attitude or has quit on Ruff. If anything, I think Vanek's attitude this year is better than I've ever seen.
I disagree on this, I know it's been speculated for a very long time that there is some kind of rift there. I 100% believe that Vanek would not have become the player he is right now (and still improving) without Ruff. Ruff knows he can come down on Vanek hard (and he certainly has) and Vanek more often than not responds. I have not seen a single thing this year that implies to me that Vanek has a bad attitude or has quit on Ruff. If anything, I think Vanek's attitude this year is better than I've ever seen.
Agreed. Where is this indictment of Ruff by Vanek? PM's between-the-bench nattering last night?
