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Old
12-08-2011, 10:01 AM
  #26
JPurp26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Step 1: Trade Boyes for a draft pick. Look to teams with an extra 2nd rounder and/or those needing help on the PP. If you can't get a 2nd rounder, take the 3rd rounder and possibly a mid-tier prospect for Rochester. This frees up salary and allows Kassian to stay in Buffalo.

Step 2: Work on getting a center, even if he's a bottom-6 center. Nielsen and Stoll are impending UFAs, and neither has been good enough this season so as to make the asking price too high. Get on the horn and if you can grab either for a draft pick do it, utilizing the cap space just freed up by moving Boyes. We're currently dressing one natural center.

That's where I'd stop...for now. If there are still problems approaching the deadline, start looking at other deals with Stafford as the centerpiece. I'm loathe to giving up on Ennis less than 10 games into a sophomore season following a 50-point rookie season.
Well I would try to do both of those, like Jame and others have said we still need an impact player.

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Old
12-08-2011, 10:01 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Step 1: Trade Boyes for a draft pick. Look to teams with an extra 2nd rounder and/or those needing help on the PP. If you can't get a 2nd rounder, take the 3rd rounder and possibly a mid-tier prospect for Rochester. This frees up salary and allows Kassian to stay in Buffalo.

Step 2: Work on getting a center, even if he's a bottom-6 center. Nielsen and Stoll are impending UFAs, and neither has been good enough this season so as to make the asking price too high. Get on the horn and if you can grab either for a draft pick, utilizing the cap space just freed up by moving Boyes. We're currently dressing one natural center.

That's where I'd stop...for now. If there are still problems approaching the deadline, start looking at other deals.
Boyes would be a good start.
Nielsen or Stoll would help I agree.

I wouldn't stop short there though given the current inconsistencies on this club. I truly believe the playoffs are in jeopardy with this current roster, even when the injured come back.
I'd like to see them move some assets to address the chemistry on the Vanek/Pominville line. I mean, you have Bob McKenzie saying Carolina may actually look at moving Ward and/or Staal, I'd start there for sure.

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Old
12-08-2011, 10:02 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by omglolnub View Post
I'm saying that there's no way the Sabres could make an even trade right now, let alone an upgrade. The "stock" has fallen to a new low and won't get anything in return.
Myth. GMs look at more than what's happened in the last 10 games. The idea that Drew Stafford wouldn't fetch anything is laughable.

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Old
12-08-2011, 10:04 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by omglolnub View Post
I'm saying that there's no way the Sabres could make an even trade right now, let alone an upgrade. The "stock" has fallen to a new low and won't get anything in return.
Eh, the market isn't quite that volatile.

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12-08-2011, 10:05 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Myth. GMs look at more than what's happened in the last 10 games. The idea that Drew Stafford wouldn't fetch anything is laughable.
The big question is how many GMs want Stafford at $4M per for 3+ seasons?

A bad contract is likely going to make Brassard unmovable off of the C'bus roster right now. How many GMs could live with Stafford's deal?

It appears that most teams are either at the cap or their internal payroll budget limit. That makes it tough to do a deal like moving Stafford right now.

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Old
12-08-2011, 10:09 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by JPurp26 View Post
Realistically for me I would try to build around

Vanek-X-Pominville
Ennis-Roy-X
Leino-Adam-Kassian
Gerbe-Gaustad-Kaleta
McCormick

Regher-Myers
Sekera-Ehrhoff
Leopold-X
Weber

Miller
Enroth

We package Stafford/Hecht/Boyes/Gragnani/Picks and prospects in order to get a top line center a finisher RW for Roy and Ennis to set up and a Defensive Defenseman preferably Right Handed. Our biggest needed is still without a debate the need for Center depth.
if i were to build around a core with this team it would look like this....

Vanek-X-Pominville
Ennis-Roy-X
Leino-Adam-Kassian
Gerbe-Gaustad-Tropp
McCormick

Regher-Myers
Ehrhoff-X
Leopold-McNabb
Weber

Miller
Enroth

to be honest with the way kassians been playin he could play line 2 shift tropp up to 3 and keep kaleta. i really think ehrhoff needs a guy paired with him that just sits back, way back, so ehrhoff can do his thing offensively. once they get the defensive core set then they should work on offense

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Old
12-08-2011, 10:12 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
The big question is how many GMs want Stafford at $4M per for 3+ seasons?

A bad contract is likely going to make Brassard unmovable off of the C'bus roster right now. How many GMs could live with Stafford's deal?

It appears that most teams are either at the cap or their internal payroll budget limit. That makes it tough to do a deal like moving Stafford right now.
then just trade stafford straight up for brassard. at least if he doesnt work out for us it didnt hurt cuz staff-infection isnt doin anything besides infecting his line mates with his crappy play plus we'd reduce cap space and contract length

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12-08-2011, 10:17 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by static80 View Post
Boyes would be a good start.
Nielsen or Stoll would help I agree.

I wouldn't stop short there though given the current inconsistencies on this club. I truly believe the playoffs are in jeopardy with this current roster, even when the injured come back.
I'd like to see them move some assets to address the chemistry on the Vanek/Pominville line. I mean, you have Bob McKenzie saying Carolina may actually look at moving Ward and/or Staal, I'd start there for sure.
Nielsen is the guy behind my cryptic comments about non-roster assets for a player. At his cap hit and ability, he solidifies the bottom 9 and doesn't break the bank.

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Old
12-08-2011, 10:40 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boose30 View Post
if i were to build around a core with this team it would look like this....

Vanek-X-Pominville
Ennis-Roy-X
Leino-Adam-Kassian
Gerbe-Gaustad-Tropp
McCormick

Regher-Myers
Ehrhoff-X
Leopold-McNabb
Weber

Miller
Enroth

to be honest with the way kassians been playin he could play line 2 shift tropp up to 3 and keep kaleta. i really think ehrhoff needs a guy paired with him that just sits back, way back, so ehrhoff can do his thing offensively. once they get the defensive core set then they should work on offense
I agree I originally believed Kassian and Ennis would be good together, however I put him with Adam because of that lines recent play. Other then that I agree although I keep Sekera on this team, hes been great this year and I put McNabb in Rochester to fine tune his game and hopefully make it here next year

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Old
12-08-2011, 10:45 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by JPurp26 View Post
First off, anyone is available if the team is better off overall.

I would be weary of giving up Ennis so fast, hes ultra talented and still very young. He needs better linemates. Stafford was given a glorious chance off of an Ennis pass late in the game. Ennis is young and hopefully only going to get even better.
First off, I realize that.

Second off, there are still some players I hang on to and tweak around them with a new coach, so thanks for the condescension.

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Old
12-08-2011, 10:53 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Nielsen is the guy behind my cryptic comments about non-roster assets for a player. At his cap hit and ability, he solidifies the bottom 9 and doesn't break the bank.
Who are you kidding, he'd probably center the first line in a week.

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Old
12-08-2011, 11:08 AM
  #37
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I'm probably not understanding certain posts but....

Why would anyone be on your "do not trade" list?

Since this is hypotheticalville ... If a team wanted Miller, Myers, Kassian, Vanek, or name a Sabres property here, if it made the team better overall, I would want that player traded. This is a business, and the goal of this business is game winning and cup raising. No player should be on a "do not trade" list. When making a team better, take the heart away from the head. Just my O.

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Old
12-08-2011, 12:29 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
The big question is how many GMs want Stafford at $4M per for 3+ seasons?
I'm sure there are several GM's who'd like a 26 yr old winger with size coming off a season in which he scored 31 goals in 62 games. For all the people who (albeit correctly) harped on the unsustainability of his shooting% last season, the same people aren't cutting him a break for his 7.1% shooting% this season, which is well below his career 12.6% shooting%.

I'm fairly certain that GMs who look at those statistics would love to buy low on Drew--assuming his stock is low to Buffalo, which I doubt given Regier's patience. Also, like it or not, $4m is at or slightly below market now for 2nd line wingers, and as the cap rises and the UFA classes continue to stay watered down, that market may only increase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
A bad contract is likely going to make Brassard unmovable off of the C'bus roster right now. How many GMs could live with Stafford's deal?
Brassard is a soft, one-dimensional (offense) center who may not even be a center in the long-term given how terribad he is at the dot and his lack of defensive ability. He's not even getting dressed on a bad team. That's extremely disconcerting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
It appears that most teams are either at the cap or their internal payroll budget limit. That makes it tough to do a deal like moving Stafford right now.
Maybe, maybe not. They can move players in and out. I'm not arguing that it'd be a cinch to move Stafford today--even though I think there'd be plenty of suitors--but I don't think it'd be that difficult if they made him available. But I strongly dispute the notion that his value has plummeted in the eyes of all GMs because of a bad 12 games.

I'm all for moving Drew in a package to upgrade the club (Ryan or top-6 center, for example), but I think it's fairly silly to believe, as some have suggested, that he has limited or no value right now.

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Old
12-08-2011, 02:02 PM
  #39
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Any team I construct from this roster going forward does not have Derek Roy or Drew Stafford on it.

It's not about changing personnel, it's changing the culture. I feel those two are the biggest part of that problem.

Tough to move Roy unless you're getting a comparable center back, but he needs to go.

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12-08-2011, 02:06 PM
  #40
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Do you really need a comparable center though? We made the playoffs with center depth of Hecht/Connolly-Boyes/Nieds-Gaustad and it's not like Roy's presence has made the team better, even when most guys were healthy.

I'd trade Roy if the return was right, regardless of position, even if it meant converting another winger like Ryan.

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Old
12-08-2011, 02:14 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sba View Post
Any team I construct from this roster going forward does not have Derek Roy or Drew Stafford on it.

It's not about changing personnel, it's changing the culture. I feel those two are the biggest part of that problem.

Tough to move Roy unless you're getting a comparable center back, but he needs to go.
I agree. People complain endlessly about the Rochester core, and then make dream lineups with most of them still in it. Pominville is the captain. Vanek is the best of the group. Who does that leave to trade?

The idea that you need a center who can score 80 points to win the cup isn't true. Take a look at the production of the Bruins centers during the regular season last year.

Vanek-Adam-Pominville
Ennis-xxxx-Stafford
Leino-xxxx-Kassian
Foligno-McCormick-Gerbe
Tropp

That is the core of a contending team in the future. Trade Roy to get a center in a different mold. Make another minor trade or sign someone like Stoll to get another bottom six center.

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Old
12-08-2011, 02:27 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I'm sure there are several GM's who'd like a 26 yr old winger with size coming off a season in which he scored 31 goals in 62 games. For all the people who (albeit correctly) harped on the unsustainability of his shooting% last season, the same people aren't cutting him a break for his 7.1% shooting% this season, which is well below his career 12.6% shooting%.

I'm fairly certain that GMs who look at those statistics would love to buy low on Drew--assuming his stock is low to Buffalo, which I doubt given Regier's patience. Also, like it or not, $4m is at or slightly below market now for 2nd line wingers, and as the cap rises and the UFA classes continue to stay watered down, that market may only increase.



Brassard is a soft, one-dimensional (offense) center who may not even be a center in the long-term given how terribad he is at the dot and his lack of defensive ability. He's not even getting dressed on a bad team. That's extremely disconcerting.



Maybe, maybe not. They can move players in and out. I'm not arguing that it'd be a cinch to move Stafford today--even though I think there'd be plenty of suitors--but I don't think it'd be that difficult if they made him available. But I strongly dispute the notion that his value has plummeted in the eyes of all GMs because of a bad 12 games.

I'm all for moving Drew in a package to upgrade the club (Ryan or top-6 center, for example), but I think it's fairly silly to believe, as some have suggested, that he has limited or no value right now.
06-07 ---> 41gms (19.4%)
07-08 ---> 64gms (15.5%)
08-09 ---> 79gms (10.9%)
09-10 ---> 71gms (7.7%)
10-11 ---> 62gms (17.3%)
11-12 ---> 26gms (7.1%)

The difference is last year was a complete reversal of his steadily dropping shooting percetage. It was also better than any previous season as a full timer (as opposed to a callup in 06-07).

His current 7.1% is right in line with his 09-10 season so why should we cut him a break. Its hardly as shocking or out of whack as his 17.3% was last year.

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Old
12-08-2011, 02:27 PM
  #43
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Why do you tend to trade Ennis now? I think he's a sell-low right now, that's why I wouldn't trade him at this state of the season.

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Old
12-08-2011, 04:29 PM
  #44
Boose30
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Why do you tend to trade Ennis now? I think he's a sell-low right now, that's why I wouldn't trade him at this state of the season.
it would probably be better if we did trade him at the deadline. but 1 of either stafford or ennis have to go. we already know what stafford is monetarily worth over the next 4yrs, im just worried about what an arbitrator might give ennis. i think he'd be worth 2.5-3mil but even at a mere 2mil and pending the team does nothing in any way shape or form to change the team that would leave us with about 2.5mil to find a #1 center, which for that money probably wont happen. we have plenty of depth on the left side and hes quite young which would make him the more appealing option to other teams.

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Old
12-08-2011, 04:36 PM
  #45
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TO COLORADO: Derek Roy, Mike Weber, CGY 2nd
TO BUFFALO: Paul Stastny & Shane O'Brien

TO WINNIPEG: Tyler Ennis, Brad Boyes, Paul Gaustad, MA Gragnani
TO BUFFALO: Bryan Little, Jim Slater & Arturs Kulda

TO DALLAS: Drew Stafford & TJ Brennan
TO BUFFALO: Brenden Morrow & DAL 2012 3rd

VANEK-STASTNY-POMINVILLE
LEINO-ADAM-KASSIAN
HECHT-LITTLE-MORROW
GERBE-SLATER-TROPP
xKaleta, McCormick, Ellis

MYERS-REGEHR
EHRHOFF-LEOPOLD
SEKERA-O'BRIEN
xKulda, McNabb, Finley

MILLER
ENROTH

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Old
12-08-2011, 04:41 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Brassard is a soft, one-dimensional (offense) center who may not even be a center in the long-term given how terribad he is at the dot and his lack of defensive ability. He's not even getting dressed on a bad team. That's extremely disconcerting.
.
What gives you the impression that he's soft? (121 hits in 74 games last year...goose had 128 in 81 games last year)

He's been decent at the dot over his career (46.6 on 888 draws last year)...

I think Brassard has plenty of untapped talent. And right now, at 23 yrs old, he is a solid #3 center with top 6 ability.

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Old
12-08-2011, 07:31 PM
  #47
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I would shop Stafford, Ennis, and Roy and see what offers I got.

I would also see what the market was for Miller.

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Old
12-08-2011, 07:50 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Step 1: Trade Boyes for a draft pick. Look to teams with an extra 2nd rounder and/or those needing help on the PP. If you can't get a 2nd rounder, take the 3rd rounder and possibly a mid-tier prospect for Rochester. This frees up salary and allows Kassian to stay in Buffalo.

Step 2: Work on getting a center, even if he's a bottom-6 center. Nielsen and Stoll are impending UFAs, and neither has been good enough this season so as to make the asking price too high. Get on the horn and if you can grab either for a draft pick do it, utilizing the cap space just freed up by moving Boyes. We're currently dressing one natural center.

That's where I'd stop...for now. If there are still problems approaching the deadline, start looking at other deals with Stafford as the centerpiece. I'm loathe to giving up on Ennis less than 10 games into a sophomore season following a 50-point rookie season.
This makes a fair amount of sense and seems realistic.

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Old
12-08-2011, 08:01 PM
  #49
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Who I wouldn't trade, under almost any circumstance: Regehr, Myers, Kassian, Vanek, Pominville, Ehrhoff, and Leino

Any other pieces in our entire organization I'd consider moving for the right price if it helps us win now.

Just a question for everyone. Now, almost a year later, would you make that rumored trade at last year's deadline for Spezza now? Ennis would have to be included, as he was the piece that Darcy didn't want to part with when Murray asked for him to seal the deal.

I'm a big fan of Ennis and I think he's going to be a really good player in this league for a long time, but I think I might pull the trigger on that deal today, although now that we've had a look at Kassian I'd be hesitant and I'd have to think long and hard. A year ago I wouldn't have wanted to part with Ennis under any circumstance, but a year later I feel I would.

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12-08-2011, 09:38 PM
  #50
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Roy, please please get rid of him asap.

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