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Old
12-07-2011, 08:12 PM
  #101
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by m00ks View Post
I disagree. He has his shot. That's it. His vision, decision making, puck control and specially skating ability are all lacking. I really don't see what the hype is with this kid.
His skating, vision and hockey sense are all clearly above average.

There isn't much hype with Weber, he's been in Subban's shadow since they were drafted.

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12-07-2011, 08:14 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
His skating, vision and hockey sense are all clearly above average.

There isn't much hype with Weber, he's been in Subban's shadow since they were drafted.
he outscored him every year where they played against each other

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12-07-2011, 08:18 PM
  #103
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Nope, not in my opinion. His positioning is terrible, he's weak as they come and his offense is over rated. With a team that already has a bunch of weaker dman, he is redundant and there is no place on a competitive NHL roster for him and Diaz. Diaz is better, weber is expendable.

By the time he is ready for full time duty, if he ever gets there, we will be looking at graduates from Hamilton who will pass him on the depth charts.

A number 3 or 4 dman, where do you get this, he gets scratched or moved to forward because his defence is terrible, he can't crack the lineup on a regular basis of a team that is decimated by injuries. I usually don't give JM personnel decisions all that much weight, because he often leaves me scratching my head, but weber has given him no choice.

I think he could be a 5th dman pp specialist down the line, but not with the current corp that is as soft as they come.

He has shown very little signs of improvement to this point. I wouldn't give him away and frankly he holds very little value, but I don't see where he fits short term or down the road. If we go the rebuild route, fine, keep him, if we want to win now, he's the odd man out. When everyone is healthy, he has no place.
You're entitled to your opinion, so I won't bother arguing with you as you clearly don't look at him objectively.

You don't seem to grasp that when a young player has a "down" period it doesn't suddenly mean he sucks and doesn't belong in the NHL. After not playing much the first 4-5 games he got a lot of ice time the next 15-18 and played very well at both ends. I think his struggles on the PP the last 8-10 games have affected the rest of hios game and he has not played as well. It's a case of having a 23 year old kid with less than 80 NHL games under his belt and having to carry a bigger load than he is ready for. Just look at Pacioretty, he looked great his first 20-25 games then after taht struggled, he has since bounced back and is one of our better players.

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12-07-2011, 08:49 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
His skating, vision and hockey sense are all clearly above average.

There isn't much hype with Weber, he's been in Subban's shadow since they were drafted.
Well, personally, I haven't seen it. I don't notice him carrying the puck in or out of the zone. Nor do I see him identifying and hitting the open man. I don't even see him hold the line. Got a canon though, best clapper in the team.

Anyweyz, I'll never cheer for someone to fail. If he proves me wrong great, better for the team. But from my personal assessment, he doesn't have enough of the "It" factor to solidify himself anywhere near the top 4.

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12-07-2011, 08:58 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by m00ks View Post
Well, personally, I haven't seen it. I don't notice him carrying the puck in or out of the zone. Nor do I see him identifying and hitting the open man. I don't even see him hold the line. Got a canon though, best clapper in the team.

Anyweyz, I'll never cheer for someone to fail. If he proves me wrong great, better for the team. But from my personal assessment, he doesn't have enough of the "It" factor to solidify himself anywhere near the top 4.
I don't see him as a top 4 right now...I think he needs to be a #5-6 this year at least maybe next year, the grow into a #3-4 spot in a couple years. That's a normal progression for non-star rookies.


Last edited by Monctonscout: 12-08-2011 at 12:29 PM.
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12-07-2011, 09:00 PM
  #106
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Right now I feel like Weber has confidence issues. He's shown us last year that he can be steady in improvement and early this year that he can step up a little and play solid. Definite trade bait, but worth keeping around especially if the trade brings back a Dustin Boyd or something.

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12-07-2011, 09:02 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Why will Woe-ber be better in a few months? And won't Diaz, Emelin, and St-Denis also be better in that time frame?
Again: Two full years younger than all of the above.

Emelin and Diaz are entering their primes. They'll probably only really improve in so far as they become accustomed to the North American game. Weber, in my opinion, has a greater chance of actually becoming a better player given his age.

Not saying toss the others out or anything like that, but lumping him in with older guys is not exactly a fair comparison. Him and Subban will improve markedly as players over the next few years. Their skills will advance. Diaz and Emelin will settle into the game and become smarter as they age, but the core skills are the core skills for the most part.

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12-08-2011, 09:53 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Why will Woe-ber be better in a few months? And won't Diaz, Emelin, and St-Denis also be better in that time frame?
You take Weber in one of his worst slumps !, compare him with others ...

some years ago he was compared with Suban ! maybe he could be compared to Suban again in some years ??!

Where people at the time soooooo stupid not to see the huuuuuuge difference between him and Suban ???

If he was sooo bad, why did MTL sign him for 3 years 1 way ?
They are at least as professional and as knowledgeable and experienced than you and me times 10 !!

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12-08-2011, 11:59 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by torero View Post
You take Weber in one of his worst slumps !, compare him with others ...

some years ago he was compared with Suban ! maybe he could be compared to Suban again in some years ??!

Where people at the time soooooo stupid not to see the huuuuuuge difference between him and Suban ???

If he was sooo bad, why did MTL sign him for 3 years 1 way ?
They are at least as professional and as knowledgeable and experienced than you and me times 10 !!
Honestly, you are a Weber fan.

If he was compared to Weber, it was not a favorable comparison for Weber.

Even if Subban may be having a slump, he is a top 4 NHL D. Weber is not.

Yes he is cap friendly, but he is not showing why he is ahead of Diaz and Emelin. He certainly is not an impact player like Subban. Not at this point.

He seems very well liked in the team, but on the ice, he is less than a non-factor, he is a handicap. I know that sounds harsh but... look at the losing goal last game...

Look at his shifts in detail.... he is not making a positive impact on the team.

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12-08-2011, 12:13 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
Honestly, you are a Weber fan.

If he was compared to Weber, it was not a favorable comparison for Weber.

Even if Subban may be having a slump, he is a top 4 NHL D. Weber is not.

Yes he is cap friendly, but he is not showing why he is ahead of Diaz and Emelin. He certainly is not an impact player like Subban. Not at this point.

He seems very well liked in the team, but on the ice, he is less than a non-factor, he is a handicap. I know that sounds harsh but... look at the losing goal last game...

Look at his shifts in detail.... he is not making a positive impact on the team.
Leviathian homerism right there. No way, Weber is miles away better than PK Subban who is having to much love on this board and deserve to be back in Hamilton.

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12-08-2011, 12:17 PM
  #111
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I really want to love the guy, I want him to be the next Streit, but yeah he's not been very good the times I've watched. But Gill seems even worse this season. Seems Gill is on the ice for just about every goal against and often Weber is right there next to him.

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12-08-2011, 12:30 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
Honestly, you are a Weber fan.

If he was compared to Weber, it was not a favorable comparison for Weber.

Even if Subban may be having a slump, he is a top 4 NHL D. Weber is not.

Yes he is cap friendly, but he is not showing why he is ahead of Diaz and Emelin. He certainly is not an impact player like Subban. Not at this point.

He seems very well liked in the team, but on the ice, he is less than a non-factor, he is a handicap. I know that sounds harsh but... look at the losing goal last game...

Look at his shifts in detail.... he is not making a positive impact on the team.
Subban's skillset is among the top 5-6 d-men in the NHL. It's like saying Plekanec isn't good because Crosby is better.

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12-08-2011, 12:34 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Subban's skillset is among the top 5-6 d-men in the NHL. It's like saying Plekanec isn't good because Crosby is better.
PK Subban perf. has nothing to be bragging about. Can we replaced his place with Weber? Give the kid more minutes and watch his numbers fly.....

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12-08-2011, 12:46 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
Honestly, you are a Weber fan.

If he was compared to Weber, it was not a favorable comparison for Weber.

Even if Subban may be having a slump, he is a top 4 NHL D. Weber is not.

Yes he is cap friendly, but he is not showing why he is ahead of Diaz and Emelin. He certainly is not an impact player like Subban. Not at this point.

He seems very well liked in the team, but on the ice, he is less than a non-factor, he is a handicap. I know that sounds harsh but... look at the losing goal last game...

Look at his shifts in detail.... he is not making a positive impact on the team.
Yes, I am a Weber fan. But that doesn't make me unreasonable ! I argue logically here, not with my heart !

i am not saying that he is better than Subban or whatever ... i just said at a point in time he was comparable and might be again ... maybe ... one day ! (i hope and in the good sense)

And that you are judging Weber now, at the worst moment. Which is not the best to be done.

And since he is a small cap guy, he has no impact on the game ... you can give him a rest and wait better times. (1.5 months ago he had the highest TOI + best points !)
This changes so quickly so ... relax .... and in 2 months you open eyes again.
(during you close eyes ... Martin will take care to expose him to the game according to his added value !)

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12-08-2011, 03:10 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
Honestly, you are a Weber fan.

If he was compared to Weber, it was not a favorable comparison for Weber.

Even if Subban may be having a slump, he is a top 4 NHL D. Weber is not.

Yes he is cap friendly, but he is not showing why he is ahead of Diaz and Emelin. He certainly is not an impact player like Subban. Not at this point.

He seems very well liked in the team, but on the ice, he is less than a non-factor, he is a handicap. I know that sounds harsh but... look at the losing goal last game...

Look at his shifts in detail.... he is not making a positive impact on the team.
Two weeks ago, Weber was playing 20 minutes a night, contributing the odd point, moving the puck and playing as a solid plus.

Martin loved him, there were no issues and we were all talking about Emelin going back to Russia if demoted and Diaz going to the AHL.

Is he in a slump? Of course? But that doesn't justify throwing away a prospect who is quite young and has a huge upside over a slump.

Weber at 23, to me, is someone you cannot move. He wouldn't get a huge return at this stage of his development and in the next two years he'll either be an NHLer with a good upside (puck moving PP QBs are not exactly growing on trees) or he'll be a bust.

Diaz on the other hand can go to the AHL, continue to adjust to this game and there are no reprecussions.

And while I like what Emelin brings, he has also shown very clearly that he needs ice time to get used to the North American game. If the D gets healthy, I'd rather see him get a few weeks conditioning in Hamilton to further adjust than barely play in the NHL and/or cause Weber to be given away for free.

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12-08-2011, 03:30 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
And while I like what Emelin brings, he has also shown very clearly that he needs ice time to get used to the North American game. If the D gets healthy, I'd rather see him get a few weeks conditioning in Hamilton to further adjust than barely play in the NHL and/or cause Weber to be given away for free.
Emelin won't go to Hamilton - he has an opt out clause in his contract.

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12-08-2011, 04:52 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
Honestly, you are a Weber fan.

If he was compared to Weber, it was not a favorable comparison for Weber.

Even if Subban may be having a slump, he is a top 4 NHL D. Weber is not.

Yes he is cap friendly, but he is not showing why he is ahead of Diaz and Emelin. He certainly is not an impact player like Subban. Not at this point.

He seems very well liked in the team, but on the ice, he is less than a non-factor, he is a handicap. I know that sounds harsh but... look at the losing goal last game...

Look at his shifts in detail.... he is not making a positive impact on the team.
On top of my previous answer.

Already if he starts making the PP click, he becomes a hell of an impact player.
And you know that he can do that. Weber in good shape is a hell of a PP player.

So do not outrule that he is an impact player. He can be one ... and at hand ... not philosophically in 2 years after ... and after ... .

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12-08-2011, 04:54 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Subban's skillset is among the top 5-6 d-men in the NHL.
That's quite a statement. Have you looked at who the top 5 or 6 defensemen in the league are? Subban's good but.... not quite in that category just yet.

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12-08-2011, 04:56 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
And while I like what Emelin brings, he has also shown very clearly that he needs ice time to get used to the North American game. If the D gets healthy, I'd rather see him get a few weeks conditioning in Hamilton to further adjust than barely play in the NHL and/or cause Weber to be given away for free.
Probably one of the most ludicrous statements posted on these boards in some time.

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12-08-2011, 05:59 PM
  #120
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Right now I feel like Weber has confidence issues. He's shown us last year that he can be steady in improvement and early this year that he can step up a little and play solid.
i agree.

but, as of late, weber is playing sub-par relative to what he has shown he's capable to do. he played much better earlier on and whether it was due to the defensive pairing or increased responsibility, it looks like he crumbled and has faltered for some time now.

he lacks poise and his poor decision making has dropped him on the depth chart. he's been given the chance but diaz and emelin have clearly jumped over him.

as for subban, no question he has flash, the abilities and a great skill set. however, i do feel he has fallen onto some bad habits and needs to control himself more. perhaps the opposite of weber, to me, subban is over confident. he gets too cute and as a result, he's getting caught way too often now. instead, he should be more discriminating and focused in his decision making.

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12-08-2011, 06:08 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by ashtraygirl View Post
Emelin won't go to Hamilton - he has an opt out clause in his contract.
Here's a theory, instead of making blanket proclamations, maybe the Habs could simply go ask him?

"Hey Alexei, you're going to be a great player. We love what we've seen, but we think that if you took a two week conditioning assignment to the AHL and played 20 minutes a night, it would greatly increase your familiarity with the North American game and maybe speed up your progress."

Note: Conditioning assignments pay full NHL salaries and are by definition temporary. If he bolted to Russia over that, then good riddance.


Quote:
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Probably one of the most ludicrous statements posted on these boards in some time.
At the risk of asking a question I don't want the answer to: Do tell. It seems perfectly reasonable to me, but I am guessing that many on these forums saw the last couple games where the guy has made some nice hits and decided he's now beyond reproach.

To be clear, I think Emelin is 100% going to be an NHL defender for a long time. He has shown a lot and come a REALLY long way really fast this year. To me though, it's no coincidence that he's gotten better the more he's played and that's why I think giving him some time in Hamilton would only get him to be that reliable and evil guy we all hope he'll be fast.

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12-08-2011, 07:25 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
Here's a theory, instead of making blanket proclamations, maybe the Habs could simply go ask him?

"Hey Alexei, you're going to be a great player. We love what we've seen, but we think that if you took a two week conditioning assignment to the AHL and played 20 minutes a night, it would greatly increase your familiarity with the North American game and maybe speed up your progress."

Note: Conditioning assignments pay full NHL salaries and are by definition temporary. If he bolted to Russia over that, then good riddance.




At the risk of asking a question I don't want the answer to: Do tell. It seems perfectly reasonable to me, but I am guessing that many on these forums saw the last couple games where the guy has made some nice hits and decided he's now beyond reproach.

To be clear, I think Emelin is 100% going to be an NHL defender for a long time. He has shown a lot and come a REALLY long way really fast this year. To me though, it's no coincidence that he's gotten better the more he's played and that's why I think giving him some time in Hamilton would only get him to be that reliable and evil guy we all hope he'll be fast.
Emelin has clearly been our best D after Gorges and Subban for the last 10 games. There's no way he should be sitting before Gill, Spacek, Campoli or even not-fully recovered Markov. Let alone Diaz and Weber.

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12-08-2011, 07:26 PM
  #123
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I'll say it again. Put him with Spacek on the third pairing and he'll be just fine. The vet will help him with his confidence.

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