HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Notices

Cammalleri and the PP

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-01-2005, 03:37 PM
  #1
KingPurpleDinosaur
Bandwagon Kings Fan
 
KingPurpleDinosaur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: irvine, ca
Posts: 2,878
vCash: 500
Cammalleri and the PP

I'm just curious, does anyone find it odd that Cammalleri has 13 of his 18 points from the powerplay? Does it mean he's just that good on the powerplay or that he's that ineffective in the 5 on 5 situations? I think it's great and all, but to be so dependent on the pp for points is kind of a curious issue...

KingPurpleDinosaur is offline  
Old
12-01-2005, 03:49 PM
  #2
wabwat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: pasadena, ca.
Posts: 6,674
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to wabwat
don't look at me... i've tried to explain it.

wabwat is offline  
Old
12-01-2005, 03:50 PM
  #3
kingsfan25
Registered User
 
kingsfan25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,834
vCash: 500
Maybe, unlike the rest of the team, Camms is actually better when the other team has fewer skaters on the ice.

kingsfan25 is offline  
Old
12-01-2005, 04:14 PM
  #4
agentfouser
Playoffs?!?!
 
agentfouser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Country: Ireland
Posts: 2,350
vCash: 500
i think it has a lot more to do with his linemates 5 on 5. roenick and brown have been, sadly, ineffective for the bulk of the season, and cammalleri is simply not up to creating offense single-handedly. with that line apparently broken up, however, perhaps we'll see a revival out of him.

agentfouser is offline  
Old
12-01-2005, 04:18 PM
  #5
wabwat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: pasadena, ca.
Posts: 6,674
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to wabwat
Quote:
Originally Posted by agentfouser
i think it has a lot more to do with his linemates 5 on 5. roenick and brown have been, sadly, ineffective for the bulk of the season, and cammalleri is simply not up to creating offense single-handedly. with that line apparently broken up, however, perhaps we'll see a revival out of him.
then again... the SAME argument can be made for either of the other two.

wabwat is offline  
Old
12-01-2005, 05:37 PM
  #6
Skebo
Registered User
 
Skebo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Pissin' in the Pond
Country: United States
Posts: 876
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Skebo
Cammalleri operates best with a little extra space to operate in. He is one of the few players on the Kings that is making use of the extra space on the ice when the Kings are on the PP. Cammalleri is acting decisively when he gets the puck in a PP situation and gets rewarded with points.

If Demitra, Vis, and Conroy would do the same then perhaps the Kings PP wouldn't be one of the worst in the league.

Skebo is offline  
Old
12-01-2005, 05:44 PM
  #7
uclaw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 17
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wabwat
then again... the SAME argument can be made for either of the other two.
Brown and JR are a force on the powerplay? Well, that's good news.

uclaw is offline  
Old
12-01-2005, 05:51 PM
  #8
wabwat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: pasadena, ca.
Posts: 6,674
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to wabwat
Quote:
Originally Posted by uclaw
Brown and JR are a force on the powerplay? Well, that's good news.
fouser mentioned their play together 5 on 5... nice try!

wabwat is offline  
Old
12-01-2005, 07:37 PM
  #9
two out of three*
 
two out of three*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Newbury Park, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,829
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to two out of three* Send a message via AIM to two out of three*
Brown has been playing good IMO, solely on the fact that he throws his weight around everywhere, and on anyone.

I think the Kings gotta move the puck quicker on the PP. A lot of the PK's they face the other teams attack the puck carrier at all times. When other teams force they can read where the next pass is going. Detroit is AWESOME at it. The Kings can't just be stationary on the PP. They gotta move. Quick. And when they get chances they gotta shoot, and go to the net hard, and pay the price to score.

two out of three* is offline  
Old
12-01-2005, 09:06 PM
  #10
uclaw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 17
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wabwat
fouser mentioned their play together 5 on 5... nice try!
Let me break it down for you:

On power play:
Cam: good
JR: bad
Brown: bad

On 5 on 5:
Cam: bad
JR: bad
Brown: bad

Ergo: Brown and JR are more likely to be dragging Cam's play down during 5 on 5 play, rather than Cam dragging down Brown and JR's play. The sword doesn't cut both ways. Cam has contributed offensively to the club, Brown and JR have not.

I think the conclusion is that Cam is the better offensive player at this point. I'd like to see him on a line with a player that can finish a pass, I think he'd be a decent top-6 player, 5 on 5. As of now, his utility is strictly on the power play... no one's saying he's the next Frolov, but I think his talent could be used better 5 on 5. Right now the other two... Brown and JR, are hopeless.

uclaw is offline  
Old
12-01-2005, 09:16 PM
  #11
Osprey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 14,249
vCash: 500
I think that Cammalleri is used to having the kind of space that he had in the AHL. The opposition wasn't as fast, savvy or strong, so Mike had more room with the puck and could hold onto it long enough to think of what to do next. He gets that kind of space on the powerplay. 5-on-5, however, players are on top of him the moment he touches the puck, and knocking him off of the puck is easier because the opposition is bigger and smarter.

I think Cammalleri may've looked better in preseason because the opposite winger on his line was Frolov. Alex is a master in the corners, allowing Cammalleri to stay away from the boards and stand in the circles (like Luc) or at the net and wait for passes. No one that Mike's been paired with since then has been strong enough on the puck to fish it from the corners and feed it to Mike. He's, instead, had to go fish out the pucks, himself. It's not just his size that makes that difficult; it's also the fact that he's never had to do that before. I think it may take a long time for him to become comfortable at that. Another option is to find him another linemate who loves the corners.

I'm concerned about Cammalleri's 5-on-5 effectiveness. If he weren't getting big PP minutes and excelling there, he'd be a major disappointment and his career with the Kings would definitely be on the line. I hope that something happens soon, whether it's Mike finding his comfort zone, finding the right linemates or DT trading for a player that complements Mike perfectly. Until then, I'll continue to love his production and cheer for him loudly, but I'll be a little uneasy because he'll only become a curiosity and an NHL journeyman if he never manages to produce at even strength. Obviously, for his and the Kings' sake, I hope that things start to fall into place for him; they finally have for Brian Gionta (who also came from college hockey and is even shorter than Cammalleri).

Let me just go back to that and end on it. It took 166 games in the NHL for Brian Gionta to find himself and turn into a scoring machine. Cammalleri has exactly half that so far. There's still quite a bit of time for Mike to find his groove in the NHL. It may not be until next season, but the Kings might be as happy that they held onto Cammalleri (and didn't give up on him) as NJ is this season that they held onto Gionta.

EDIT: uclaw, I like your analysis... and welcome to the board.


Last edited by Osprey: 12-01-2005 at 09:37 PM.
Osprey is offline  
Old
12-01-2005, 09:31 PM
  #12
ILuvLA
Registered User
 
ILuvLA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lost in LA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,744
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
I think that Cammalleri is used to having the kind of space that he had in the AHL. The opposition wasn't as fast, savvy or strong, so Mike had more room with the puck and could hold onto it long enough to think of what to do next. He gets that kind of space on the powerplay. 5-on-5, however, players are on top of him the moment he touches the puck, and knocking him off of the puck is easier because the opposition is bigger and smarter.

I think Cammalleri may've looked better in preseason because the opposite winger on his line was Frolov. Alex is a master in the corners, allowing Cammalleri to stay away from the boards and stand in the circles (like Luc) or at the net and wait for passes. No one that Mike's been paired with since then has been strong enough on the puck to fish it from the corners and feed it to Mike. He's, instead, had to go fish out the pucks, himself. It's not just his size that makes that difficult; it's also the fact that he's never had to do that before. I think it may take a long time for him to become comfortable at that. Another option is to find him another linemate who loves the corners.

I'm concerned about Cammalleri's 5-on-5 effectiveness. If he weren't getting big PP minutes and excelling there, he'd be a major disappointment and his career with the Kings would definitely be on the line. I hope that something happens soon, whether it's Mike finding his comfort zone, finding the right linemates or DT trading for a player that complements Mike perfectly. Until then, I'll continue to love his production and cheer for him loudly, but I'll be rather uneasy because he'll only be a curiosity and an NHL journeyman if he never learns to produce at even strength. Obviously, for his and the Kings' sake, I hope that things start to fall into place for him.
You make some good points about Cammalleri. I've too have noticed that he's much better with room to maneuver as opposed to being surrounded. It's almost like he's a deer caught in headlights at times when there's too much traffic around. He really, really needs someone strong in the corners.

ILuvLA is offline  
Old
12-02-2005, 01:03 AM
  #13
TubbyTerrion*
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Studio City
Country: United States
Posts: 3,974
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to TubbyTerrion*
see: Gionta, Brian

TubbyTerrion* is offline  
Old
12-02-2005, 02:42 AM
  #14
nikolai19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Corona, CA
Country: Belarus
Posts: 2,310
vCash: 500
See: Lemieux, Mario

14 of his 20 points have come on the PP. Heck, some guys make HOF careers out of excelling on the PP alone. This goes for defensemen as well. You don't think Sergei Gonchar had the Brinks truck back up for him because he was solid defensively did you?

nikolai19 is offline  
Old
12-02-2005, 02:52 AM
  #15
swinginutter*
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Country: Italy
Posts: 1,796
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
I think that Cammalleri is used to having the kind of space that he had in the AHL. The opposition wasn't as fast, savvy or strong, so Mike had more room with the puck and could hold onto it long enough to think of what to do next. He gets that kind of space on the powerplay. 5-on-5, however, players are on top of him the moment he touches the puck, and knocking him off of the puck is easier because the opposition is bigger and smarter.

I think Cammalleri may've looked better in preseason because the opposite winger on his line was Frolov. Alex is a master in the corners, allowing Cammalleri to stay away from the boards and stand in the circles (like Luc) or at the net and wait for passes. No one that Mike's been paired with since then has been strong enough on the puck to fish it from the corners and feed it to Mike. He's, instead, had to go fish out the pucks, himself. It's not just his size that makes that difficult; it's also the fact that he's never had to do that before. I think it may take a long time for him to become comfortable at that. Another option is to find him another linemate who loves the corners.

I'm concerned about Cammalleri's 5-on-5 effectiveness. If he weren't getting big PP minutes and excelling there, he'd be a major disappointment and his career with the Kings would definitely be on the line. I hope that something happens soon, whether it's Mike finding his comfort zone, finding the right linemates or DT trading for a player that complements Mike perfectly. Until then, I'll continue to love his production and cheer for him loudly, but I'll be a little uneasy because he'll only become a curiosity and an NHL journeyman if he never manages to produce at even strength. Obviously, for his and the Kings' sake, I hope that things start to fall into place for him; they finally have for Brian Gionta (who also came from college hockey and is even shorter than Cammalleri).

Let me just go back to that and end on it. It took 166 games in the NHL for Brian Gionta to find himself and turn into a scoring machine. Cammalleri has exactly half that so far. There's still quite a bit of time for Mike to find his groove in the NHL. It may not be until next season, but the Kings might be as happy that they held onto Cammalleri (and didn't give up on him) as NJ is this season that they held onto Gionta.

EDIT: uclaw, I like your analysis... and welcome to the board.
Good points. Cammy is a glue stick and the first shift against the Hawks with Army and Tambs was actually a pretty good one. They didn't get any high percentage shots off, but they owned possession, and that's what Cammy needs. He's creative with the puck but finding the proper line mates has been real difficult. We all talk about the Demitra line, but Frolov and Demitra can play anywhere. Conroy was the lucky guy on this one. I really don't want to see that line dismantled, but AM needs to find a good formula and stick with it.
Cammy with Army and Tambs is something i'd like to see for at least another week. Cammy with Vis on the PP should not be touched! I don't know what they're thinking.
As for the point production............well it's somewhere, and to me it doesn't really matter which way we get em'. We all know that Cammy is a natural goal scorer, so his opportunities are going to come when he has space. He's learning to make his own, but when he feeds to a line-mate.....they have to learn how to collect, and keep danger flowing.

swinginutter* is offline  
Old
12-02-2005, 11:18 AM
  #16
wabwat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: pasadena, ca.
Posts: 6,674
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to wabwat
Quote:
Originally Posted by swinginutter
Good points. Cammy is a glue stick and the first shift against the Hawks with Army and Tambs was actually a pretty good one. They didn't get any high percentage shots off, but they owned possession, and that's what Cammy needs. He's creative with the puck but finding the proper line mates has been real difficult. We all talk about the Demitra line, but Frolov and Demitra can play anywhere. Conroy was the lucky guy on this one. I really don't want to see that line dismantled, but AM needs to find a good formula and stick with it.
Cammy with Army and Tambs is something i'd like to see for at least another week. Cammy with Vis on the PP should not be touched! I don't know what they're thinking.
As for the point production............well it's somewhere, and to me it doesn't really matter which way we get em'. We all know that Cammy is a natural goal scorer, so his opportunities are going to come when he has space. He's learning to make his own, but when he feeds to a line-mate.....they have to learn how to collect, and keep danger flowing.
good point nutter... you know, that first shift was probably the best shift played by anyone all night.

wabwat is offline  
Old
12-02-2005, 11:49 AM
  #17
uclaw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 17
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey
I think that Cammalleri is used to having the kind of space that he had in the AHL. The opposition wasn't as fast, savvy or strong, so Mike had more room with the puck and could hold onto it long enough to think of what to do next. He gets that kind of space on the powerplay. 5-on-5, however, players are on top of him the moment he touches the puck, and knocking him off of the puck is easier because the opposition is bigger and smarter.

I think Cammalleri may've looked better in preseason because the opposite winger on his line was Frolov. Alex is a master in the corners, allowing Cammalleri to stay away from the boards and stand in the circles (like Luc) or at the net and wait for passes. No one that Mike's been paired with since then has been strong enough on the puck to fish it from the corners and feed it to Mike. He's, instead, had to go fish out the pucks, himself. It's not just his size that makes that difficult; it's also the fact that he's never had to do that before. I think it may take a long time for him to become comfortable at that. Another option is to find him another linemate who loves the corners.

I'm concerned about Cammalleri's 5-on-5 effectiveness. If he weren't getting big PP minutes and excelling there, he'd be a major disappointment and his career with the Kings would definitely be on the line. I hope that something happens soon, whether it's Mike finding his comfort zone, finding the right linemates or DT trading for a player that complements Mike perfectly. Until then, I'll continue to love his production and cheer for him loudly, but I'll be a little uneasy because he'll only become a curiosity and an NHL journeyman if he never manages to produce at even strength. Obviously, for his and the Kings' sake, I hope that things start to fall into place for him; they finally have for Brian Gionta (who also came from college hockey and is even shorter than Cammalleri).

Let me just go back to that and end on it. It took 166 games in the NHL for Brian Gionta to find himself and turn into a scoring machine. Cammalleri has exactly half that so far. There's still quite a bit of time for Mike to find his groove in the NHL. It may not be until next season, but the Kings might be as happy that they held onto Cammalleri (and didn't give up on him) as NJ is this season that they held onto Gionta.

EDIT: uclaw, I like your analysis... and welcome to the board.
Thanks Osprey. I think you're right, as in that Cammalleri needs a player with puck possession skills, more so than a player who can finish.

swinginutter: pairing Armstrong with Cammalleri is a good idea. I didn't see the last game, so I don't have an opinion about Tambs. It seems Cowan would be a good forechecker on a line with Armstrong and Cammalleri, depending on the status of the line with Avery and E-Bel.

uclaw is offline  
Old
12-02-2005, 12:15 PM
  #18
swinginutter*
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Country: Italy
Posts: 1,796
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by uclaw
Thanks Osprey. I think you're right, as in that Cammalleri needs a player with puck possession skills, more so than a player who can finish.

swinginutter: pairing Armstrong with Cammalleri is a good idea. I didn't see the last game, so I don't have an opinion about Tambs. It seems Cowan would be a good forechecker on a line with Armstrong and Cammalleri, depending on the status of the line with Avery and E-Bel.
I think AM needs to be stubborn about keeping top tier players with top tier players. He wants energy, but he also needs to want creativity. Cowan, Avery, and Belanger belong on third and fourth lines and I think they should keep Eric with Sean all of the time.....with Cowan, TK, or any other fill-in as a line.
The trick is to find the right guys for Army and JR. Luc looks completely out of sorts, but he plays real well with Army...and Cammy has some spot duty with them. That would leave JR with Brown and Tambs................and people comaplaining about JR's production.

My solution would be:

Tambs - Army - Cammy
Luc - JR - Brown

(just like last game)

Keep it for awhile and see what happens

swinginutter* is offline  
Old
12-02-2005, 12:56 PM
  #19
KingPurpleDinosaur
Bandwagon Kings Fan
 
KingPurpleDinosaur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: irvine, ca
Posts: 2,878
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by uclaw
Let me break it down for you:

On power play:
Cam: good
JR: bad
Brown: bad

On 5 on 5:
Cam: bad
JR: bad
Brown: bad

Ergo: Brown and JR are more likely to be dragging Cam's play down during 5 on 5 play, rather than Cam dragging down Brown and JR's play. The sword doesn't cut both ways. Cam has contributed offensively to the club, Brown and JR have not.

I think the conclusion is that Cam is the better offensive player at this point. I'd like to see him on a line with a player that can finish a pass, I think he'd be a decent top-6 player, 5 on 5. As of now, his utility is strictly on the power play... no one's saying he's the next Frolov, but I think his talent could be used better 5 on 5. Right now the other two... Brown and JR, are hopeless.
How the hell do you connect those two statements with that kind of crap logic? Cammalleri wasn't playing on JR and Brown's line the whole year, you know. He did play with Frolov and after a quick start, he faded away. Even though I disagree with Osprey a lot, I think Osprey is spot on, Cammy seems like he needs his space and 5-on-5, he just doesn't get it.

But I still don't think his production will go up if he's paired with Frolov, because I think AM would have matched him with Armstrong if his style really necessitated an effective cornerman. Off the top of my head, I can't remember if Cammy ever played with Armstrong or how effective they were if they ever did.

KingPurpleDinosaur is offline  
Old
12-02-2005, 01:21 PM
  #20
swinginutter*
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Country: Italy
Posts: 1,796
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur
How the hell do you connect those two statements with that kind of crap logic? Cammalleri wasn't playing on JR and Brown's line the whole year, you know. He did play with Frolov and after a quick start, he faded away. Even though I disagree with Osprey a lot, I think Osprey is spot on, Cammy seems like he needs his space and 5-on-5, he just doesn't get it.

But I still don't think his production will go up if he's paired with Frolov, because I think AM would have matched him with Armstrong if his style really necessitated an effective cornerman. Off the top of my head, I can't remember if Cammy ever played with Armstrong or how effective they were if they ever did.
He played with Frolov one game....not including pre-season. The line was supposed to be Frolov - JR - Cammy........with instant chemistry. It changed after one game.
Cammy has played with Army a bit more, but it's the shuffling that's causing problems, not to mention that Brown is struggling to hold onto the puck. There's lots of variables as to why they're not succeeding, but they need to sort that **** out fast. Play simple and see what happens. We have too many individuals on this team.

swinginutter* is offline  
Old
12-02-2005, 06:13 PM
  #21
fuzzerson
¡Ándele!
 
fuzzerson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 304
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to fuzzerson
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur
I'm just curious, does anyone find it odd that Cammalleri has 13 of his 18 points from the powerplay? Does it mean he's just that good on the powerplay or that he's that ineffective in the 5 on 5 situations? I think it's great and all, but to be so dependent on the pp for points is kind of a curious issue...
Its not odd, he has been playing with JR most of the season. The PP is the only way he is getting any points.

fuzzerson is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:11 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.