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Braydon Coburn thusfar

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Old
12-03-2011, 10:02 AM
  #1
SeanCWombBroom
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Braydon Coburn thusfar

Carle and Mez have taken a lot of guff recently and deservedly so. I root for Coburn, so I tend to notice his play, and I wanted to take a look at it thusfar this year, because I have not been in love with it.

Offensively:

1G 7A
+/- is zero
3.6% shooting percentage
Goals per 60: .15
Primary assists per 60: .46
Secondary assists per 60: .15
Points per 60: .77

Coburn is a defensive-minded player. That being said, here are some items to mull over. This season, his points per 60 is barely better than Lilja, who has a .76. He's barely over Lilja, and without Lilja, Coburn would be last on the team.

Of his assists, 3x of them are primary rather than secondary.

Defensively:

This is where his bread and butter is supposed to be, but how is he doing thusfar?

Looking at QUALTEAM stats, he is the most shifted with the highest talent of any other defenseman on the team. So when he's out, he usually has quality around him. I bring this up only to see if he's doing poorly in spite of the quality of his teammates.

Looking at QUALCOMP stats, he's in the third on the team, just behind Pronger and well behind Kimmo, in terms of talent level skating against. This is goes in his favor, because his stats can be given a little bit of grace considering the level he is facing should they be a little lousy.

Looking at various Corsi stats, the team seems to take a step back when he's not on the ice and drive play less well, but he's behind Carle and above Mez (who is playing lousy). I can understand being behind Carle a bit, because Carle is better at moving the puck up ice (he's aggressive about it and turns it over a bit). Coburn is very behind Pronger and Kimmo in Corsi, usually by double. Coburn has not been tasked with taking on a ton of top end talent, more middle of the road talent, his quality of competition stat is pretty ugly (4th on team, above Mez and Lilja). This disagrees with the QUALCOMP stat above, but that is based on +/-, so I tend to favor Corsi when they disagree. QUALCOMP has him at 3rd best. Corsi has him at 4th.

Continuing looking at Corsi, it looks like what was stated above, that he's been cradled a bit by his linemates, seems to bear out. His relative quality of teammates Corsi is decently high.

When play is being taken to Coburn, his Corsi staggers-- lots of offensive opportunities against (this is what I am seeing which is causing this analysis), but when he's not on the ice the team performs a bit worse (can someone explain this?). I could theorize that the quality he is up against causes his ability to get out of his own end to stagger, but the team's stats improve when he's off ice because that quality of competition has left the ice when he shifts off.

Oddly enough, he's starting more often in offensive zone.

Thoughts on Coburn?

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12-03-2011, 10:13 AM
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He had a real bad first period last night. I like Coby, he's adjusted well to generally playing the right side which took awhile. I think he'll be here awhile.

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12-03-2011, 10:32 AM
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He has been his usual self. That is a bit too inconsistent. He has some games where he plays great and he clears the crease as if there is nothing to it and won't let anyone beat him in a one-on-one battle. And then the next game he makes mistakes I might have benched a 16-year old for doing, while being awfully weak physically.

Maybe not to those extremes, but his main problem is still that his "worst performances" are so bad. He needs to find a level where he's a lot better even on his off days, so to speak.

I think he has been a bit more involved with the play in the offensive zone than he has been the past couple of years though, which is a good thing imo. He joins the rush a bit more frequently, and holds the blue line to maintain pressure where he would have begun to back off in past years.

Let's hope he finds his accuracy on those one timers if he continues to see pp time when Pronger is out.

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12-03-2011, 10:43 AM
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Coburn is very average throughout the season unless he goes into super Angry-Coburn-Rage-Mode.

During the play-offs though, Coburn is a different animal on the ice. He can be regularly matched up against other teams best players and can dominate defensively.

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12-03-2011, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Coburn is very average throughout the season unless he goes into super Angry-Coburn-Rage-Mode.

During the play-offs though, Coburn is a different animal on the ice. He can be regularly matched up against other teams best players and can dominate defensively.
I love rage mode.

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12-03-2011, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
Let's hope he finds his accuracy on those one timers if he continues to see pp time when Pronger is out.
This x 100.

It seems like the only person who can find a way through for their shots is Kimmo right now.

And obviously Pronger when he comes back from injury.

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12-03-2011, 11:11 AM
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I was looking at his stats and shaking my head the other day. I'd love to see him put it all together

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12-03-2011, 12:19 PM
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Coburn did not make any progress since playoffs against Pens. Something change after he took the puck to the face. Before that, he looked like a legit #2 d-men.

imo we'll be overpaying for his services next year.

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12-03-2011, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Coburn is very average throughout the season unless he goes into super Angry-Coburn-Rage-Mode.

During the play-offs though, Coburn is a different animal on the ice. He can be regularly matched up against other teams best players and can dominate defensively.
This. I love seeing him in the playoffs. He tosses people around like ragdolls.

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12-03-2011, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I was looking at his stats and shaking my head the other day. I'd love to see him put it all together
This. He has crazy speed, size, ability to hit, and a bomb of a shot. Add in consistent better decision making and he has a chance of being elite.

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12-03-2011, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Coburn is very average throughout the season unless he goes into super Angry-Coburn-Rage-Mode.

During the play-offs though, Coburn is a different animal on the ice. He can be regularly matched up against other teams best players and can dominate defensively.
I agree with this ! Coburn shines come play off time, just like Briere etc...He is a faster skater than many would actually believe, Coby can really motor when he needs to.

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12-08-2011, 09:11 PM
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Back to back iffy games. Made some good plays (which he's expected to do) and some really bad turnovers/brainfarts (which we're paying him NOT to do). He's gotta find that 2nd gear.

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12-08-2011, 09:35 PM
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He has been pretty average. They should piss him off before each game so we get rage mode:

Maybe call him bignose?

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12-08-2011, 09:46 PM
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Favorite Coburn moment ever:

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12-08-2011, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StandingCow View Post
He has been pretty average. They should piss him off before each game so we get rage mode:

Maybe call him bignose?
Maybe instead of Coke machines, Laviolette should take to hitting pictures of Coburn's mother. Then ramp it up in the playoffs to actually hitting his mother.

That shot against Miller last night was quite a sight. Coburn had barely crossed the blue line and let it rip. Miller fought it into the mesh, but that shot was a bullet. I`d like to see more of that.


Last edited by BernieParent: 12-08-2011 at 10:15 PM.
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12-08-2011, 11:09 PM
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He made a couple of good plays against Malkin tonight. But inconsistent none the less.

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12-08-2011, 11:20 PM
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When Coburn was signed to the two-year extension that is taking him through this season, I was really glad to hear it as I had high hopes for his continued development. At this point though, I've kind of given up on believing that he'll ever put it all together the way I had hoped. When it really comes down to it, the guy just doesn't think the game very well...he just doesn't have enough smarts out there. He has all the tools, but doesn't have the toolbox. That's not to say that he's not a capable NHL defender, but it is to say that he's most certainly not a guy I want playing big time #1/#2 minutes, now or in the future. He's not deserving of the extension he received, nor would he have been at the end of this season had they waited. I feel the same way about the JVR extension, both his and Coburn's extensions should've been a better bargain or should've been held off on until the end of the season. There is very little chance that either of them perform at a level this season that justifies their respective extension terms, especially Coburn.

As an aside, it's frustrating how we watched Richards and Carter get those insane years, and then JVR get 6, meanwhile the one guy that you'd REALLY like to have seen locked up long-term was only locked up for 3. Maybe they wanted to get Giroux for more years and it was tough to make happen, but he's the one guy more than any other I can recall that I wouldn't have minded them getting crazy with years and dollars even when it might have seemed too early to do so. And this isn't hindsight at work here...I, along with many others I'm sure had a special feeling about Giroux and wanted to see him locked up lonnng term when they signed him to his current 3-year deal. I mean, I'm sure he'll still be locked up when the time comes and stay a Flyer...it's just that they're now likely gonna have to pay him such an insane amount. He'll deserve the money I'm sure, but I just really wish they could've gotten him on a Richards/Carter like deal while they had a better opportunity to do so, or at least a deal more like JVR's.

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12-09-2011, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
This. He has crazy speed, size, ability to hit, and a bomb of a shot. Add in consistent better decision making and he has a chance of being elite.
A bomb of an extremely, extremely inaccurate shot.

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12-09-2011, 01:08 AM
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A bomb of an extremely, extremely inaccurate shot.
Not all bombs are accurate bombs

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12-09-2011, 02:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
This. He has crazy speed, size, ability to hit, and a bomb of a shot. Add in consistent better decision making and he has a chance of being elite.
Consistent, better decision making comes with experience.

Experience comes with age.

Defensemen are traditionally better defensively in their latter 20s and early 30s.

Forwards are traditionally better defensively in their latter 20s and early 30s.

Coburn will become more consistent with a few more years, and to those complaining that we've already waited a long time for Coburn to "put it all together"...oh well. You can't force Coburn to suddenly be more experienced anymore than you can force a 10-year-old to suddenly be 30.

He'll never be elite, but he's going to be the shut-down defensemen we want on our team for years to come. We're not just going to go out and find another Coburn. We can find cheap versions of Carle pretty much anywhere, but there aren't too many Coburns.

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12-09-2011, 02:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claude boivin lives View Post
When Coburn was signed to the two-year extension that is taking him through this season, I was really glad to hear it as I had high hopes for his continued development. At this point though, I've kind of given up on believing that he'll ever put it all together the way I had hoped. When it really comes down to it, the guy just doesn't think the game very well...he just doesn't have enough smarts out there. He has all the tools, but doesn't have the toolbox. That's not to say that he's not a capable NHL defender, but it is to say that he's most certainly not a guy I want playing big time #1/#2 minutes, now or in the future. He's not deserving of the extension he received, nor would he have been at the end of this season had they waited. I feel the same way about the JVR extension, both his and Coburn's extensions should've been a better bargain or should've been held off on until the end of the season. There is very little chance that either of them perform at a level this season that justifies their respective extension terms, especially Coburn.

As an aside, it's frustrating how we watched Richards and Carter get those insane years, and then JVR get 6, meanwhile the one guy that you'd REALLY like to have seen locked up long-term was only locked up for 3. Maybe they wanted to get Giroux for more years and it was tough to make happen, but he's the one guy more than any other I can recall that I wouldn't have minded them getting crazy with years and dollars even when it might have seemed too early to do so. And this isn't hindsight at work here...I, along with many others I'm sure had a special feeling about Giroux and wanted to see him locked up lonnng term when they signed him to his current 3-year deal. I mean, I'm sure he'll still be locked up when the time comes and stay a Flyer...it's just that they're now likely gonna have to pay him such an insane amount. He'll deserve the money I'm sure, but I just really wish they could've gotten him on a Richards/Carter like deal while they had a better opportunity to do so, or at least a deal more like JVR's.
I'd managed to forget about JVR's extension...which seemed to be based entirely on 1 good playoff series. He's got 22 points so far...which isn't terrible, but it isn't exactly amazing either. He really needs to be much better than he has been, and his recent injury woes haven't helped.

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12-09-2011, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Consistent, better decision making comes with experience.

Experience comes with age.

Defensemen are traditionally better defensively in their latter 20s and early 30s.

Forwards are traditionally better defensively in their latter 20s and early 30s.

Coburn will become more consistent with a few more years, and to those complaining that we've already waited a long time for Coburn to "put it all together"...oh well. You can't force Coburn to suddenly be more experienced anymore than you can force a 10-year-old to suddenly be 30.

He'll never be elite, but he's going to be the shut-down defensemen we want on our team for years to come. We're not just going to go out and find another Coburn. We can find cheap versions of Carle pretty much anywhere, but there aren't too many Coburns.
I agree with this pretty much. The skillsets Carle brings are more easily replaced than those Coburn brings. I think one of the problems we have with Coburn, as fans, is that he showed that promise of being something more than "merely" a shutdown dman when he came over from Atlanta. If he hadn't had that great 07-08 season for us, we might have been thrilled with him now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'd managed to forget about JVR's extension...which seemed to be based entirely on 1 good playoff series. He's got 22 points so far...which isn't terrible, but it isn't exactly amazing either. He really needs to be much better than he has been, and his recent injury woes haven't helped.
He definitely needs to elevate his game. Those 22 points aren't exactly evenly distributed either. He looked pretty decent against the Pens though, his injuries hasn't slowed him down at least, he made Voracek look like Jody Shelley at one point. I suspect that Schenn will slot in as center on that line later on, which could be a bit troublesome I think. JvR and Voracek aren't exactly stellar defensively, having someone like Talbot there might be a good thing.

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Old
12-09-2011, 03:40 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claude boivin lives View Post
That's not to say that he's not a capable NHL defender, but it is to say that he's most certainly not a guy I want playing big time #1/#2 minutes, now or in the future. He's not deserving of the extension he received, nor would he have been at the end of this season had they waited.
TOI/G 07-08 Playoffs: 22:25 (2nd on the team)
TOI/G 08-09 Playoffs: 26:29 (1st on the team)
TOI/G 09/10 Playoffs: 25:09 (4th on the team)
TOI/G 10/11 Playoffs: 24:07 (3rd on the team)

TOI/G 06-07 Regular Season: 15:28 (13th on the team, 8th of
defenders)
TOI/G 07-08 Regular Season: 21:14 (3rd on the team, 2nd of defenders)
TOI/G 08-09 Regular Season: 24:37 (1st on the team)
TOI/G 09-10 Regular Season: 21:08 (4th on the team)
TOI/G 10-11 Regular Season: 21:04 (5th on the team)
TOI/G 11-12 Regular Season: 21:55 (4th on the team)


Since Pronger came in he and Carle obviously have overtaken Coburn during the regular season, but in the playoffs Coburn still plays elite minutes.
Task: find me another defender who plays at Coburn's level, is 27 +-1 year and makes less than him.

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12-09-2011, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'd managed to forget about JVR's extension...which seemed to be based entirely on 1 good playoff series. He's got 22 points so far...which isn't terrible, but it isn't exactly amazing either. He really needs to be much better than he has been, and his recent injury woes haven't helped.
JVR looks like he's barely scratching the surface of his ability on most nights, yet he's pacing for 30 goals and 30 assists per 82 games (and doing almost all of it at ES) while playing just under 16:00 per game.

If anything, I'm now even more confident that we are going to look back at his contract as a complete steal than I was before the year.

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12-09-2011, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Consistent, better decision making comes with experience.

Experience comes with age.

Defensemen are traditionally better defensively in their latter 20s and early 30s.

Forwards are traditionally better defensively in their latter 20s and early 30s.

Coburn will become more consistent with a few more years, and to those complaining that we've already waited a long time for Coburn to "put it all together"...oh well. You can't force Coburn to suddenly be more experienced anymore than you can force a 10-year-old to suddenly be 30.

He'll never be elite, but he's going to be the shut-down defensemen we want on our team for years to come. We're not just going to go out and find another Coburn. We can find cheap versions of Carle pretty much anywhere, but there aren't too many Coburns.
Oh come on Chris. Coburn has been in the league how many seasons now? It'd be different if this were his first or second season, but this is now his 7th year in the league. If you can't put it all together by then, then something's wrong.

Let's call Coburn for what he is - a good defensive defenseman with the toolkit to be an elite defensive defenseman. The problem is that he just can't put it all together on a consistent basis. And yes, when you've got seven seasons of experience, that's more than enough time to put things together.

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