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The Management thread 2.0 ( All GM/Coaching discussion here)

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Old
12-09-2011, 08:48 PM
  #26
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Unless we're flipping Kaberle for Hamrlik, we don't have a spot in our top four for this garbage for three years.

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12-09-2011, 08:54 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
Unless we're flipping Kaberle for Hamrlik, we don't have a spot in our top four for this garbage for three years.
I think he will be in the bottom pairing.

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12-09-2011, 09:00 PM
  #28
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I think he will be in the bottom pairing.
You are silly then. Martin is going to give him more time than anyone but Subban and Gorges. Hell, he might even be given Subban's spot on the top ES pairing with Gorges.

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12-09-2011, 09:08 PM
  #29
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Learned nothing from the Gomez trade. So many bad contracts on this team. This is precisely why I wanted PG fired cuz I knew he'd make a dumb trade.

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Old
12-09-2011, 09:23 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
You are silly then. Martin is going to give him more time than anyone but Subban and Gorges. Hell, he might even be given Subban's spot on the top ES pairing with Gorges.
That's what people said about Gill yet only St-Denis had lower TOI than him amongst the d-men. Martin won't blindly put Kabs on the top 4 if defensively he's as horrible as people on here claim he is.

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12-09-2011, 09:24 PM
  #31
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Just some perspective, for discussions sake....The Leafs are only 4 pts ahead of the Habs, and Burkie and Wilson are going to get new contracts...The Habs are maybe going to fire PG and JM...I know it has alot to do with expectations, but if the Leafs are having such a great season, and the Habs have really been bad ( results wise ) why such a dramatic difference?

I wouldn't mind seeing JM gone, but I think PG has been fairly proactive in his managing.

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Old
12-09-2011, 09:29 PM
  #32
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Just some perspective, for discussions sake....The Leafs are only 4 pts ahead of the Habs, and Burkie and Wilson are going to get new contracts...The Habs are maybe going to fire PG and JM...I know it has alot to do with expectations, but if the Leafs are having such a great season, and the Habs have really been bad ( results wise ) why such a dramatic difference?

I wouldn't mind seeing JM gone, but I think PG has been fairly proactive in his managing.
The Leafs have improved their position in the standings for the third year in a row. We're going to miss the playoffs for the second time since the lockout. This was a desperation move by Gauthier and Martin to save their ***** that is going to cripple this franchise even more and they're still going to get fired. Kaberle is going to fix nothing and we're going to end up with one more contract we can't move. We have the most bad contracts in the entire league.

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12-09-2011, 09:50 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by chewBACHa View Post
last hope chance for PG and JM
Regardless of how I feel about this move I think you're right at least in terms of Martin. I actually thought that he might've been fired at this point but the Kaberle trade is kind of a last ditch effort to get us back on the right track.

We went into a nosedive last season before trading for Wiz and he turned our season around so maybe that will happen again here... who knows?

If it doesn't happen soon though I see Martin being canned sooner rather than later. Maybe not Gauthier, but Martin (fair or not) will be out on his butt.

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Old
12-09-2011, 09:59 PM
  #34
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I will watch Kaberle play a dozen games before I scream for blood.

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Old
12-09-2011, 10:02 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
You're kidding right?

The trade happened in June 2009, the tournament happened in dec2008/Jan2009, did you WATCH that tournament by any chance?

Are you really saying Timmins had McDonaugh higher than PK on his chart in June 2009? Really? Really really?

It was evident then as it is now, that PK IS miles ahead of McDonaugh. McDonaugh can't do what PK does, and will never be able to do what PK does and I rarely use absolutes, but this I'm 100% certain about.

I loved McDonaugh in the tournament in the two games against Canada and was excited about his development considering people had said he had stagnated. It was clear to me that he was a rock defensively, physical, good skater, pretty good first pass and had offensive potential. He's a 7.5 B on this site which I think is a fair rating, with the potential to be an 8.0 while PK is an 8.0 B, who could become an 8.5-9.0.

So how is PK MILES ahead of McDonaugh considering most on this board hoped they would be playing together as a pair in the near future?! How can you say he is better now when they are the same age, has less experience in the NHL and has more points than PK?!

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12-09-2011, 10:03 PM
  #36
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Dumb**** molson better empty out his pockets come next year when he has to bury 9.5m in paid salary, this organization is a joke...its being built the same way the rags were 5+ years ago...

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Old
12-09-2011, 10:05 PM
  #37
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Dumb**** molson better empty out his pockets come next year when he has to bury 9.5m in paid salary, this organization is a joke...its being built the same way the rags were 5+ years ago...
rags didn't trade for bad contracts. they signed players and then they became bad contracts. We're the bigger joke because we know these contracts are awful and we keep taking them.

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12-09-2011, 10:13 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
rags didn't trade for bad contracts. they signed players and then they became bad contracts. We're the bigger joke because we know these contracts are awful and we keep taking them.
valid point...haha

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Old
12-09-2011, 10:23 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by muzion View Post
I loved McDonaugh in the tournament in the two games against Canada and was excited about his development considering people had said he had stagnated. It was clear to me that he was a rock defensively, physical, good skater, pretty good first pass and had offensive potential. He's a 7.5 B on this site which I think is a fair rating, with the potential to be an 8.0 while PK is an 8.0 B, who could become an 8.5-9.0.

So how is PK MILES ahead of McDonaugh considering most on this board hoped they would be playing together as a pair in the near future?! How can you say he is better now when they are the same age, has less experience in the NHL and has more points than PK?!
Because I watch them both play instead of just looking at point totals (2 points more OMG!!). Girardi and McD play with Brad Richards BTW, one of the best two way centers in the league, they often play with Gaborik, while Gorges and Subban play with Plex and Cammy...

If you watched them both play, then, and now, you would know what I am talking about. McD will never have the one-on-one presence that PK does, he'll never have the same drive, he'll never have the same puck control, will never have his speed, nor his mobility. Do you think Jack Johnson is as good or better than Drew Doughty, I mean, by your logic, you shoud say yes, as JJ finished with 2 more points than Doughty last year.

Did you watch the Rags in last year's playoffs? McD has a long way to go to do what PK did in the playoffs in 2011 and 2010. I can wait to see McD shutdown Crosby to the point of frustration.

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Old
12-09-2011, 11:13 PM
  #40
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Not much to say tonight after taking in the big move today by Gauthier.

But it is the Fire Management thread and I want to be in on it.

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Old
12-10-2011, 12:15 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by muzion View Post
I loved McDonaugh in the tournament in the two games against Canada and was excited about his development considering people had said he had stagnated. It was clear to me that he was a rock defensively, physical, good skater, pretty good first pass and had offensive potential. He's a 7.5 B on this site which I think is a fair rating, with the potential to be an 8.0 while PK is an 8.0 B, who could become an 8.5-9.0.

So how is PK MILES ahead of McDonaugh considering most on this board hoped they would be playing together as a pair in the near future?! How can you say he is better now when they are the same age, has less experience in the NHL and has more points than PK?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Because I watch them both play instead of just looking at point totals (2 points more OMG!!). Girardi and McD play with Brad Richards BTW, one of the best two way centers in the league, they often play with Gaborik, while Gorges and Subban play with Plex and Cammy...

If you watched them both play, then, and now, you would know what I am talking about. McD will never have the one-on-one presence that PK does, he'll never have the same drive, he'll never have the same puck control, will never have his speed, nor his mobility. Do you think Jack Johnson is as good or better than Drew Doughty, I mean, by your logic, you shoud say yes, as JJ finished with 2 more points than Doughty last year.

Did you watch the Rags in last year's playoffs? McD has a long way to go to do what PK did in the playoffs in 2011 and 2010. I can wait to see McD shutdown Crosby to the point of frustration.
We both agree that PK has an incredible skill set, you're presuming he will fulfill his potential, and then some. I also think you are shortchanging McDonaugh here. I mean one COULD become a no 1 d-man and the other a number 2, so why are you talking in absolutes then?!

Just like Markov was out last year and the defense pretty much didn't lose a step, Marc Stall is out and McDonaugh is having the same impact. He might not have PK's speed or mobility but he's 6'3 so who cares, he's freaking solid in those areas. He plays a sound hockey game while PK is all flash right now on one side of the ice.

I don't see how one can be MILES ahead of the other when both of them should become all-stars in the future.


Btw I've always thought that JJ was overrated... And while I watch a couple of Ranger playoff games last year, I don't remember how Mconaugh performed...

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Old
12-10-2011, 12:32 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Because I watch them both play instead of just looking at point totals (2 points more OMG!!). Girardi and McD play with Brad Richards BTW, one of the best two way centers in the league, they often play with Gaborik, while Gorges and Subban play with Plex and Cammy...

If you watched them both play, then, and now, you would know what I am talking about. McD will never have the one-on-one presence that PK does, he'll never have the same drive, he'll never have the same puck control, will never have his speed, nor his mobility. Do you think Jack Johnson is as good or better than Drew Doughty, I mean, by your logic, you shoud say yes, as JJ finished with 2 more points than Doughty last year.

Did you watch the Rags in last year's playoffs? McD has a long way to go to do what PK did in the playoffs in 2011 and 2010. I can wait to see McD shutdown Crosby to the point of frustration.
I've watched McD more than a few times before going to the Rangers and I loved this kid. I thought he would be as great as PK, just a different style. PK is a physical machine, McD is all about the vision. I have never seen a young kid understand the game more than McDonaugh. When he's on his game he's amazing.

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Old
12-10-2011, 05:18 AM
  #43
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I've watched McD more than a few times before going to the Rangers and I loved this kid. I thought he would be as great as PK, just a different style. PK is a physical machine, McD is all about the vision. I have never seen a young kid understand the game more than McDonaugh. When he's on his game he's amazing.
Agreed, I still take PK before McDonagh everytime, but miles ahead is a bit of an exaggeration imo. In fairness to ozy, he's been pimping PK Subban for awhile.

I have a different recollection of our prospect positions though. They were pretty much neck and neck at the time of the Gomez trade, with PK gaining ground from the WJHC. When we moved McDonagh, the Ryan McDonagh is a bust anyways nonsense started to show it's ugly head.

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Old
12-10-2011, 05:42 AM
  #44
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Agreed, I still take PK before McDonagh everytime, but miles ahead is a bit of an exaggeration imo. In fairness to ozy, he's been pimping PK Subban for awhile.

I have a different recollection of our prospect positions though. They were pretty much neck and neck at the time of the Gomez trade, with PK gaining ground from the WJHC. When we moved McDonagh, the Ryan McDonagh is a bust anyways nonsense started to show it's ugly head.
In all fairness, McDo was indeed behind Subban AS FAR AS WHERE THEY WERE AT THAT TIME. Not sure how it's relevant though based on the fact that some prospects skyrock their development while some others take a longer time. But for the idea of just discussing where they were at, Subban showed continually some interesting improvement and had really great World Juniors. The World Junior McDo went to, well we have to agree he was somewhat dissapointing. And I also have to say that Subban never regressed in any years he's played before the Pro. While McDonagh had a really subpar year in his 2nd year in Wisconsin. Though at that time, I had put it on the Wisconsin system, added to just a difficult sophomore year. But since then, McDo showed tons of improvement from his junior year and beyond.

Yet, I have no idea why the comparison. Totally different player. Of course McDo won't do what PK does, but I can tell you that if we would have a choice, PK would not be in the last minute protecting a lead. While McDo will be the kind of player. Mind you, the Rangers don't have a choice either.....but it's just a prediction that even with the Best top 6 ever....McDo will end up a top 2. And if he starts producing as well, well it doesn't matter where they were 2 or 3 years ago, McDo will end up a much complete player. The gap might not be huge....but especially in a defensive system like the Martin one....don't you all think McDonagh wouldn't be his type of d-men compared to PK?

Didn't follow the whole conversation but if by putting him #2 prooves that the Gomez trade made sense....it's not working. By all means, if PK was THAT exceptional to be #1, and McDo was just very good.....well you need those very good d-men in your lineup. And it's not a washed up player who a team wants ABSOLUTELY to get rid of that should be enough to send him packing. Made no sense then, makes no sense now, will most definately make no sense in the future.


Last edited by Whitesnake: 12-10-2011 at 06:02 AM.
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Old
12-10-2011, 07:32 AM
  #45
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I'm indifferent about firing or keeping Gauthier... for the time being. He has made some good moves and some not so good ones. But the same thing can be said about any GM.

But Martin, get rid of him ASAP. I can't stand it anymore!

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12-10-2011, 07:37 AM
  #46
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Seems to be alot of drama with Habs fans this season...the season is 82 games long...take your meds guys, and let's see what happens!

We are a 4 game win streak away from planning the parade...I think we are more like the Leaf fans than people around here want to admit

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Old
12-10-2011, 09:24 AM
  #47
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I think the issue is, Gomez could have been had without giving up McDonaugh.

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12-10-2011, 09:52 AM
  #48
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yeah , too bad the media brainwashed me into thinking trading our beat prospect at the time for a 40-50 pts center on the decline making 7 millions a year was bad for the team , and that this center who remains scoreless in more than 40 games while our prospect is playing 22 minutes a night for the rangers deserve all the chances , because clearly he didn't have them under Martin.
Hee Hee. Bang ****ing on. Let's see. You are a pro hockey player. Perform or get the **** out. Sounds good to me.

Yeah my boss just gave me two years to 'work out my issues' while we design large buildings. NOT.

Gomer is so gone. It's not even a story any more. Worst case scenario come true. **** I hate it when that happens. But it did. It did come true, to the Habs. Deal with it.

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12-10-2011, 10:01 AM
  #49
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I know that in the NHL world teams operate under the salary cap and that you have to take that into consideration when making moves...however, some people on here are borderline lunatic with the panicking about player X or Y having a bad contract. Most NHL teams have 2-3 guys on their roster who's cap hit is 30-100% more than it should be, some teams have 6 or 7(see Florida and Winnipeg). as we have seen the last few years, there are ways to deal with it, even Chicago manged to dump Huet and Campbell, NYR dumped Drury and Redden, Tor dumped Finger, Blake and others.

Kaberle, who has 538 career points and was on pace for 54 points just last year prior to the trade to Boston, makes less than NHL studs like Rozival, Komisarek, Hainsey, Byfuglien, Gonchar, Wisniewski, Redden, Bouwmeester and about the same as Liles, Volchenkov, Ballard, Jovanovski, Streit, Gilbert, Wideman, Meszaros and only 400k more than Spacek!

If he plays anywhere close to the level he was at in Toronto it will be a huge steal for PG because, let's be honest, Spacek was playing more like a 1.5-2 mil defenseman the last 1 1/2 years than a 3.8+ one.

Next year...if he plays up to par he takes up Campoli and Gill's cap room so you don't lose anything, Gill is on his last legs. At 4.25 as long as he plays as a top 4 d-man he is worth it.

if he craps the bed, then you send him to the KHL and they end up paying most of his salary with no cap hit.

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12-10-2011, 10:01 AM
  #50
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You're kidding right?

The trade happened in June 2009, the tournament happened in dec2008/Jan2009, did you WATCH that tournament by any chance?

Are you really saying Timmins had McDonaugh higher than PK on his chart in June 2009? Really? Really really?

It was evident then as it is now, that PK IS miles ahead of McDonaugh. McDonaugh can't do what PK does, and will never be able to do what PK does and I rarely use absolutes, but this I'm 100% certain about.
You ever hear of the expression splitting hairs? We could have both PK and RM right now. And Gomer is not doing anything at all. Nothing.

ALARM CLOCK! wake up. The trade was a ****ing disaster. I'm moving on, so should you. But don't defend the ****ing thing. It's over dude. The story is over.

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