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2011 NL MVP Ryan Braun tested positive for PEDs (EDIT: wins appeal! No suspension)

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Old
12-10-2011, 09:32 PM
  #51
GKJ
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These tests are made and reported to the league long before the public finds out. If it's true, Braun already knows, as well as the league. Everyone voted Braun MVP while MLB knew he was going to be suspended.

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12-10-2011, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Sabres57 View Post
Unless Braun forgets how to hit a baseball, which he won't, nope. He just turned 28 and will mash for another decade, PEDs or no PEDs. Cooperstown is a good bet for him.
Really? Roids will keep anybody out apparently. Clemens who was a lock is not gunna ever sniff it. I bet the samething happens to Manny and A-Rod. Oh...and Barry.

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12-10-2011, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
These tests are made and reported to the league long before the public finds out. If it's true, Braun already knows, as well as the league. Everyone voted Braun MVP while MLB knew he was going to be suspended.
I don't like Braun and maybe he did cheat but i'm not sure you could rob him that award cause of that. You'd have to know how early in the season he had been using this stuff.

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12-10-2011, 09:36 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post
During the 2008-09 off-season, Bonds put on 15 - 20 pounds of muscle.

Of course, steroids don't help you hit the ball better. BUt it can help a player hit it further. Why else would Bonds HR/AB ratio rise so dramatically after he started taking HGH??

The rise in his HR/AB ratio in the latter half of his career is unprecedented. I'm sure HGH had a lot to do with that..........even considering a phenom like Barry Bonds.

As for Braun, it's pretty sad to see another player of his calibre have to resort to steroid use......if true.

Guess the steroid era never ended in baseball....
and yet every study done by every scientician finds the same thing. there are no links to performance being enhanced. there's plenty of hearsay though. plenty of conjecture too.

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12-10-2011, 09:40 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Green Men Rule View Post
I don't like Braun and maybe he did cheat but i'm not sure you could rob him that award cause of that. You'd have to know how early in the season he had been using this stuff.
Well, the voters don't know. And Braun hasn't had any significant increase in offensive numbers. If he did do it, it didn't give him that much more of an advantage than he already had.


The process has to play out though. David Ortiz made that NY Times list, claimed he never (knowingly) did it, and everyone stopped caring since he never failed a test.

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12-10-2011, 09:41 PM
  #56
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Man...ESPN just crushed Braun solely on his past statements

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12-10-2011, 09:42 PM
  #57
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[QUOTE=robert terwilliger;40767819]http://steroids-and-baseball.com/

Quote from the study:

"PEDs can affect, if anything, musculature, which in baseball translates to power. They do not, and cannot, do anything to improve hand-eye coordination, vision, ball judgement, timing, or any of the factors that go into hitting except actual power, the bat speed that determines the ball velocity and thus its travel distance."

Even the study states that PEDs can affect actual power through increased bat speed and as a result, the speed at which the ball leaves the bat and its final distance from home plate.

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12-10-2011, 09:51 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by robert terwilliger View Post
it'd be nice if he learned to play defense to give them something else to vote on. lots of corner outfielders have pure power. look at his "most simular through age" on b-ref. chick hafey, fred lynn, manny, dick allen, billy williams, thome, mondesi, chipper, shawn green, teixeira. some good names, some meh names.

power alone won't get him into the hall. look at albert belle.
Honestly, after looking at the numbers, I was definitely overzealous about Braun's Hall chances in my previous post. I thought he had more than 161 career home runs. If he plays 10 more years, he'd need to average 33.9 homers per season to reach 500 on the nose. That's going to be really hard to do, and obviously he'll only further decline defensively in his 30s. For someone who is already a lousy defender, that's not too encouraging. So, basically,you're right to be skeptical of his Hall chances. But, if he doesn't get in, it won't have anything to do with PED use, as was argued before.

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Originally Posted by Green Men Rule View Post
Really? Roids will keep anybody out apparently. Clemens who was a lock is not gunna ever sniff it. I bet the samething happens to Manny and A-Rod. Oh...and Barry.
You can't really compare Braun to Clemens or Bonds. Should those two be in the Hall? Yes. But their lives have spiraled out of control with legal issues and whatnot - not to mention, in Bonds' case, that he was always disliked by the baseball media. Manny and A-Rod are both HOF-caliber players, but again, neither is particularly beloved by the right people (the voters).

I'd expect this PED issue of Braun's to blow over by the time he'll be Hall-eligible; the bigger question is: Will he have Cooperstown credentials? That remains to be seen.

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12-10-2011, 09:56 PM
  #59
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Poppy seeds.
Poppy seeds would make the test look as if he was a heroin user, not give him increased testosterone levels.

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12-10-2011, 10:00 PM
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I personally don't think the Rock took steroids. He just looks built. But he doesn't look like a freak like Mason Ryan or Batista.
The Rock definitely used steroids. He had surgery to remove the gynocomastia he got from them. That's why he kept his shirt on in his famous match with Mankind at the Royal Rumble.

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12-10-2011, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy View Post

Quote from the study:

"PEDs can affect, if anything, musculature, which in baseball translates to power. They do not, and cannot, do anything to improve hand-eye coordination, vision, ball judgement, timing, or any of the factors that go into hitting except actual power, the bat speed that determines the ball velocity and thus its travel distance."

Even the study states that PEDs can affect actual power through increased bat speed and as a result, the speed at which the ball leaves the bat and its final distance from home plate.
the next paragraph down:

Quote:
Examinations of the actual records of major-league baseball for over a century, with an especial focus on the last 25 or so years, those now being attributed to a "steroids era", show clearly and conclusively--by a number of independent analyses by a number of independent analysts each using a different methodology--that there simply is not any power boost needing explaining: PEDs are an "answer" lacking a pertinent question. This fact has been disguised by the analytically faulty method of counting power events instead of determining their rate of occurrence in hitting, and further confounded by changes in the baseball, notably the juicing whose effects were felt in 1994 and possibly back in 1993, when the change occurred.

PED use, to whatever extent it may have existed, simply did not affect any of the performance records of major-league baseball.
so while the ball goes an extra 2 feet, maybe, you still have this:

Quote:
Just what does 2 to 4 extra feet mean? It's hard to say, but (and the line of thought is on the longer page) that kind of difference--that is, without the extra muscle the ball falls 2 to 4 feet short but with it it just clears the fence--might mean one extra home run a year for an average man; and, again, the purely steroidal component might not even mean that. So it's not at all surprising that the actual stats of the game show no effect from putative steroid use, bulked-up biceps or no.

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12-10-2011, 10:06 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Well, the voters don't know. And Braun hasn't had any significant increase in offensive numbers. If he did do it, it didn't give him that much more of an advantage than he already had.


The process has to play out though. David Ortiz made that NY Times list, claimed he never (knowingly) did it, and everyone stopped caring since he never failed a test.
True enough. The thing is Ortiz isn't really a star, never has been or ever will be. They only cared abut A-Rod or fellow stars. Ortiz hadf some clutch times but he's nothing special other then just another guy saved by the DH rule.

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12-10-2011, 10:08 PM
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Man...ESPN just crushed Braun solely on his past statements
Ironic, telling someone else how to handle the matter but when the tables are turned he's not admitting it and taking it "like a man"

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12-10-2011, 10:09 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Green Men Rule View Post
Really? Roids will keep anybody out apparently. Clemens who was a lock is not gunna ever sniff it. I bet the samething happens to Manny and A-Rod. Oh...and Barry.
I'm not so sure about A-Rod. I personally do think he'll get in. He's the only one to admit it. He also proved to not need steroids to be a great player.

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12-10-2011, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Sabres57 View Post
Honestly, after looking at the numbers, I was definitely overzealous about Braun's Hall chances in my previous post. I thought he had more than 161 career home runs. If he plays 10 more years, he'd need to average 33.9 homers per season to reach 500 on the nose. That's going to be really hard to do, and obviously he'll only further decline defensively in his 30s. For someone who is already a lousy defender, that's not too encouraging. So, basically,you're right to be skeptical of his Hall chances. But, if he doesn't get in, it won't have anything to do with PED use, as was argued before.
that's going to be really hard to do but he might be helped by the fact that he's entering his peak now. still, it's hard to imagine him sticking in left field through 2021 (when he's signed through, his age 37 season).

honestly, if i had to wager money, i'd guess he won't be a hall of famer. he has power, sure, but once the pure homerun power disappears, what does he have left?

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12-10-2011, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franck View Post
Poppy seeds would make the test look as if he was a heroin user, not give him increased testosterone levels.
Seinfeld

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12-10-2011, 10:17 PM
  #67
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either he's been doing it for his whole career or I have no clue. He didn't hit a career high in homers this year, he did have a career high in SB and avg this year, though(but do steroids really make you a better hitter and faster runner?). I think it's more likely a mistake, but I'll 100% believe it when mlb says he is/isn't using steroids.

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12-10-2011, 11:18 PM
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Braun's text to a Brewers beat writer.

Quote:
Braun was quite adamant that he will get this positive drug test overturned. He said he wanted to hold a press conference today to give his side of the story but was adviced against it while the process is ongoing.

"I can't wait to get that opportunity," said Braun.

"This is all B.S. I am completely innocent."

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12-10-2011, 11:22 PM
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I'm not so sure about A-Rod. I personally do think he'll get in. He's the only one to admit it. He also proved to not need steroids to be a great player.
A-Rod is an ***. Some of the media i'm sure will hold that against him too.

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12-10-2011, 11:28 PM
  #70
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If he failed in October, why is it just coming out now? Does the league give the players a chance to appeal before it is supposed to come out?

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12-10-2011, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by KaylaJ View Post
If he failed in October, why is it just coming out now? Does the league give the players a chance to appeal before it is supposed to come out?
Yes, the appeal is supposed to be complete and then if the player remains suspended MLB announces it. Of course ESPN had to stick their noses in it and now Braun's image is tainted no matter what happens.

If the suspension is upheld, well obviously we know why his image is tainted.

If the suspension is reversed people are going to say Bud Selig is helping out a player on the team he used to own.

If they went through the appeal without anyone knowing and the suspension was reversed it never gets released and nobody knows.

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12-11-2011, 12:51 AM
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Yes, the appeal is supposed to be complete and then if the player remains suspended MLB announces it. Of course ESPN had to stick their noses in it and now Braun's image is tainted no matter what happens.

If the suspension is upheld, well obviously we know why his image is tainted.

If the suspension is reversed people are going to say Bud Selig is helping out a player on the team he used to own.

If they went through the appeal without anyone knowing and the suspension was reversed it never gets released and nobody knows.
The thing is it's not ESPN's fault. The news broke from their program "Outside The Line" Not sure who on here watches the show but it's essentially a program where they talk to "sources" or somebody with first hand knowledge or relation to the situations. So it's not like it was broken by an ESPN employee. The person to blame would be that person who spoke to Outside The Lines and the person whoever tipped off Outside The lines to talk to the certain sources.

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12-11-2011, 12:56 AM
  #73
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It's not going to get overturned. He used and got caught. With that being said, I honestly couldn't care less. PED's have been a part of sports for decades, it's time to get used it.

Oh, and Kemp >.

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Old
12-11-2011, 02:15 AM
  #74
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While I will never underestimate the incompetence of Allan Selig, I seriously doubt they would let this get out if they made mistake. I read it was for synthetic testosterone, so I find it hard to believe how that would accidentally get in your system.


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Old
12-11-2011, 02:44 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert terwilliger View Post
the next paragraph down:



so while the ball goes an extra 2 feet, maybe, you still have this:
You don't actually buy that do you? I mean is it just a coincidence all the greatest home run hitters are from one era?


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