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Old
12-11-2011, 12:03 AM
  #176
Hanke
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wow knicks also going to sign Jamal Crawford...

Barea
Crawford
Melo
Stat
Chandler

just give us the chip already..

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Old
12-11-2011, 12:24 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by NYRangerSince05 View Post
wow knicks also going to sign Jamal Crawford...

Barea
Crawford
Melo
Stat
Chandler

just give us the chip already..
If thats the case then Fields starts, and crawford off the bench. One of the best sixth men in the league

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Old
12-11-2011, 12:34 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by NYRangerSince05 View Post
wow knicks also going to sign Jamal Crawford...

Barea
Crawford
Melo
Stat
Chandler

just give us the chip already..
I don't see them getting both Crawford and Barea.

Both would have to be S&T and Knicks will have nothing left to offer.

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Old
12-11-2011, 12:44 AM
  #179
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RT @david_j_roth: Stern knows that he could just move to contract the Hornets, right? He doesn’t need to be so passive-aggressive about it.

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Old
12-11-2011, 12:56 AM
  #180
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What a cluster**** of a league, and what an incredibly unfun time it must be for fans of teams like the Raptors, Bucks and Bobcats.

I look forward to seeing what totally under the radar move the Spurs make once the dust settles from this madness.

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Old
12-11-2011, 12:58 AM
  #181
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I just ventured off to the Devils board now and clicked on their NBA Thread and last post..

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Not sure if Howard is worth it. Lopez and 2 firsts is a lot. This years draft is also really deep. If they signed Nene and moved Lopez to PF they'd be a much better team. And then in the summer draft Harrison Barnes.

Of course this team will lack stars but I think it will be more complete.

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Old
12-11-2011, 01:04 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
What a cluster**** of a league, and what an incredibly unfun time it must be for fans of teams like the Raptors, Bucks and Bobcats.

I look forward to seeing what totally under the radar move the Spurs make once the dust settles from this madness.
I just find it funny that the Owners wasted their chance to actually do something about small market franchises losing their stars so that they could make a bigger money grab. If they had focused on creating a franchise tag rather than on lowering the players' share of the BRI down to 51 percent, none of this would be happening. It just goes to show you where their priorities are.

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I just ventured off to the Devils board now and clicked on their NBA Thread and last post..



I don't understand why they even care about the Nets. The franchise is abandoning them.

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Old
12-11-2011, 08:33 AM
  #183
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Stern is probably trying to make an example out of Paul and his agents (CAA).

You don't dictate where you go.
You either take less as a FA or you re-sign with your own team for more money.

Also this trade didn't happen because the Lakers couldn't satisfy the 'young players and picks' requirement.

Look for them to get Howard now.

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Old
12-11-2011, 08:55 AM
  #184
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@I_Am_Iman: Signed my paper!!! I'm OFFICIALLY a Knick!!! #IS21 and headed to practice! Today is a great day! Let's get to work

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Old
12-11-2011, 08:57 AM
  #185
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@I_Am_Iman: Signed my paper!!! I'm OFFICIALLY a Knick!!! #IS21 and headed to practice! Today is a great day! Let's get to work
Can't wait to read writers' tweets and stories on him from camp. Reports around the draft were that the Knicks were absolutely blown away by him, but he was hardly a superstar at GT.

Is this a classic case of being blinded by non-basketball workouts? Or do we have a diamond in the rough?

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Old
12-11-2011, 09:46 AM
  #186
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I don't see them getting both Crawford and Barea.

Both would have to be S&T and Knicks will have nothing left to offer.
Not true, Barrea is being offered half of a MLE which will be 5 Mil over 2 years. Crawford would be a sign and trade, We wold be trading Douglas, Walker, and Balkman whose total payroll is about 3.6? Mil, this way we can pay Crawford 150% of that at 5.6 Mil.

We'll see what happens.

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Old
12-11-2011, 10:37 AM
  #187
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Damn if we do pull off that trade for Crawford, think about how much this roster has turned over from the start of the 2010 season to now. Amar'e and Fields will be the only 2 guys left I think. And Shawne Williams if he's re-signed.

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Old
12-11-2011, 11:52 AM
  #188
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Knicks wants barrea and Crawford I don't think u'd see a Crawford trade unless they know they can get barrea. If they do manage to get the 2 of them damn watch out.

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Old
12-11-2011, 01:52 PM
  #189
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I still think they need to get rid of Pringles.

Granted, Chandler makes them a better team defensively, but the issue was always breakdowns in coverage in the 4th quarter. A center doesnt fix that -- team defense and a sound concept do.

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Old
12-11-2011, 01:56 PM
  #190
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I still think they need to get rid of Pringles.

Granted, Chandler makes them a better team defensively, but the issue was always breakdowns in coverage in the 4th quarter. A center doesnt fix that -- team defense and a sound concept do.
Outside of Toney Douglas and Danilo Gallinari, can you name a single player that D'Antoni has had under him since he came to the Knicks who is a consistent performer defensively?

How exactly is Mike D'Antoni supposed to get Carmelo Anthony to play defense better when George Karl, one of the greatest defensive coaches in NBA history, couldn't. Maybe it isn't just on the coach?

Stoudemire's effort on defense is mediocre at best, and Anthony hasn't played strong defense for more than 2 consecutive quarters in his life.

Even in Phoenix, D'Antoni got a bad rap. He never had enough pieces, his team's were never healthy, and he never had an interior defensive presence, since Stoudemire refuses to be one.

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Old
12-11-2011, 02:26 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Outside of Toney Douglas and Danilo Gallinari, can you name a single player that D'Antoni has had under him since he came to the Knicks who is a consistent performer defensively?

How exactly is Mike D'Antoni supposed to get Carmelo Anthony to play defense better when George Karl, one of the greatest defensive coaches in NBA history, couldn't. Maybe it isn't just on the coach?

Stoudemire's effort on defense is mediocre at best, and Anthony hasn't played strong defense for more than 2 consecutive quarters in his life.

Even in Phoenix, D'Antoni got a bad rap. He never had enough pieces, his team's were never healthy, and he never had an interior defensive presence, since Stoudemire refuses to be one.
umm what?

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Old
12-11-2011, 02:40 PM
  #192
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umm what?
George Karl is widely considered to be one of the best defensive coaches in basketball. What is confusing about that? Just as Mike D'Antoni is perceived as an offense-first coach.

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Old
12-11-2011, 02:44 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Outside of Toney Douglas and Danilo Gallinari, can you name a single player that D'Antoni has had under him since he came to the Knicks who is a consistent performer defensively?

How exactly is Mike D'Antoni supposed to get Carmelo Anthony to play defense better when George Karl, one of the greatest defensive coaches in NBA history, couldn't. Maybe it isn't just on the coach?

Stoudemire's effort on defense is mediocre at best, and Anthony hasn't played strong defense for more than 2 consecutive quarters in his life.

Even in Phoenix, D'Antoni got a bad rap. He never had enough pieces, his team's were never healthy, and he never had an interior defensive presence, since Stoudemire refuses to be one.
I'll give you a chance to back that up somehow. You sure cant do it statistically.

Being a guy who puts a premium on defense doesnt make him one of the greatest all time.

Outside of his stacked -- super stacked -- Seattle teams, karl's teams always finish well below the league average.

What makes a great defensive coach is that no matter who gets input into the system, its designed to withstand almost anything.

The Knicks will never get out of the EC with D'antoni as coach. I agree with Charles Oakley 100pct

You can't excuse year after year of being in the bottom five of team defense.

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Old
12-11-2011, 02:44 PM
  #194
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George Karl is widely considered to be one of the best defensive coaches in basketball. What is confusing about that? Just as Mike D'Antoni is perceived as an offense-first coach.
George Karl is known for being a strong OFFENSIVE coach. He runs the run and gun like Pringles. He is a terrible defensive coach.

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Old
12-11-2011, 02:55 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
I'll give you a chance to back that up somehow. You sure cant do it statistically.

Being a guy who puts a premium on defense doesnt make him one of the greatest all time.

Outside of his stacked -- super stacked -- Seattle teams, karl's teams always finish well below the league average.
Super-stacked? He had two great players and a nice mix of complimentary players in Seattle, and they won with great team defense. Of course, he never saw nearly as much success defensively elsewhere, but then again, he never had a decent frontline anywhere else since. Milwaukee's frontline was an oversized small forward in Big Dog Robinson playing PF and Scott Williams and Ervin Johnson splitting center duties. In Denver, he had Nene who is a decent defender, and Anthony, who simply refuses to play defense most nights.

To be honest, the biggest reason I've always believed that Karl is one of the best defensive coaches ever is because I've heard it from a ton of players and coaches around the league.

Quote:
What makes a great defensive coach is that no matter who gets input into the system, its designed to withstand almost anything.
That's preposterous. Either you have players who are capable and willing of playing defense, or you don't. If not, then your system doesn't mean much. And it's tough to blame D'Antoni for not running a system that emphasizes defense when he had so few players who were interested in playing it.

Quote:
The Knicks will never get out of the EC with D'antoni as coach. I agree with Charles Oakley 100pct

You can't excuse year after year of being in the bottom five of team defense.
Why not? Up until last year, the team was horrendous, and full of malcontents and really lackluster players. Who was going to play defense? They may never get out of the East with D'Antoni as coach, but then again, what reason is there to believe that they are good enough to get out of the East at all?

The fact of the matter is, in a much tougher conference, D'Antoni took a team missing one of it's most important players, to the WCF. He's never had anything to work with here, and even now, all he has his a couple of big names notorious for not playing defense or a team game in general, with practically zero depth. We'll see about Shumpert and just how much of an impact Chandler alone will make.

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George Karl is known for being a strong OFFENSIVE coach. He runs the run and gun like Pringles. He is a terrible defensive coach.
That's what he runs with the Nuggets. That's not what he ran with the Sonics.

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Old
12-11-2011, 03:02 PM
  #196
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That's what he runs with the Nuggets. That's not what he ran with the Sonics.
Ok?

Karl and nothing to do with the defense just like Rivers didn't when Thibs. was there in Boston as a defensive assistant. Karl had Kloppenburg as his assistant and not mention he had one of the best defensive PGs in Payton and a star C in Kemp.

And yes, good defensive coaches can make teams good defensively. Mike Brown did it in Cleveland. Yes he had LeBron, but he made role players play elite defense. George Karl is all offense. And in your other post you say Melo shows no effort..I've seen you bash Melo before in here..if you watched the Knicks since he came over, he's played average D which is better than his days in Denver.

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12-11-2011, 03:15 PM
  #197
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Ok?

Karl and nothing to do with the defense just like Rivers didn't when Thibs. was there in Boston as a defensive assistant. Karl had Kloppenburg as his assistant and not mention he had one of the best defensive PGs in Payton and a star C in Kemp.
So according to this theory, why credit any head coach with anything? And Kemp was a power forward, not a center. Besides, why stop there? Hersey Hawkins was a very good perimeter defender, too. So was Kendall Gill when they had him. Schrempf was a decent defender. Perkins, as slow as he was, could be a factor inside. A coach can only do so much. You have to have players who are willing to give the effort, and you have to have size to be effective defensively as a team.

I watch a lot of NBATV (one of my favorite channels), and they feature a lot of players who played during the 90s. I've heard time and again that Karl is a great defensive coach. In fact, I remember when he got hired with the Bucks, a lot of the talk was about them hiring him to counteract the fact that they were dreadful defensively. Of course, with no bigs to speak of, that was a tall order for him. Kudos to him for being flexible enough to change his style to suit his team's strengths.

Quote:
And yes, good defensive coaches can make teams good defensively. Mike Brown did it in Cleveland. Yes he had LeBron, but he made role players play elite defense. George Karl is all offense. And in your other post you say Melo shows no effort..I've seen you bash Melo before in here..if you watched the Knicks since he came over, he's played average D which is better than his days in Denver.
Good defensive coaches can make teams good defensively when they have players who are willing to play defense. Following the Anthony trade, the Nuggets were one of the better defensive teams in the league. But Felton and Gallo are both good defensive players, and Anthony isn't (or at least, doesn't want to be), so simply by the change in personnel, they became much better. There is only so much Karl can do.

Also, I watched all but 5 or 6 of their games after the trade, and every playoff game. He played average D some of the time, most games he played no D at all. I've been bashing him long before he came to the Knicks. He's easily my least favorite player in the league. He makes basketball not fun. He's a ballhog, he's lazy, and the way he behaved last year, particularly towards Karl and the rest of the Nuggets, was just disgusting. He doesn't play hard on D, and he's a black hole. It's a team sport, and the Knicks had the makings of a real team. They gave it all away for one guy.

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Old
12-11-2011, 03:54 PM
  #198
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George Karl has been coaching for 25 years and has never been considered of of the greatest d-minds of all time. Even with his Sonics teams, he was around 7-10 in the league

His tenure at Milwaukee, GS , Cleveland and Denver was never highlighted by anything regarding defense.

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12-11-2011, 04:52 PM
  #199
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Knicks need a swingman defensive stopper.

That's a huge need in actually advancing in the playoffs.

Far more important than getting another scorer, IMO.

A Bruce Bowen type would be ideal. Play lockdown D & knockdown open 3's off Melo/Stat's double teams.

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Old
12-11-2011, 04:57 PM
  #200
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You have to ask yourself -- does D'antoni want his players to play defense and they ignore him, or does he not want them to play defense at all?


Either way, it's a failure on his part, as we have seen the EC power teams come as a result of good, sound team defense. The top 5 seeds in the east were all in the top-6 in team defense.

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