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#28|Dec. 10, 2011|Lightning at Flyers |7:00 p.m. ET

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12-10-2011, 10:42 PM
  #426
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Flyers’ Headaches Continue as Giroux Leaves Game in Second Period
http://nhlhotstove.com/flyers-headac...second-period/

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12-10-2011, 10:57 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
I understand, I'm just being honest. Right now, I'd easily take the following over Jagr:

Giroux
Crosby
Malkin
Ovie (yes, he struggles now, but he's still elite)
H Sedin
D Sedin
RNH
Toews
Kopitar
Vanek
Stamkos
Kane
Datsyuk
Backstrom

That's 14 right there just off the top of the head and I don't think you can really argue any of them...
Sure I can. If not for Jagr missing 4 games, he would be ahead of many of these players in scoring.

I would take Jagr ahead of RHN, Vanek, Stamkos and Ovechkin.

The Sedins need each other as well.

Jagr still has too much talent and skill. I don't wish for Giroux to miss anytime, but if he does I think this is where Jagr really steps and shows his worth.


Last edited by livewell68: 12-10-2011 at 11:02 PM.
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12-10-2011, 11:05 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Sure I can. If not for Jagr missing 4 games, he would be ahead of many of these players in scoring.

I would take Jagr ahead of RHN, Vanek, Stamkos and Ovechkin.

The Sedins need each other as well.

Jagr still has too much talent and skill. I don't wish for Giroux to miss anytime, but if he does I think this is where Jagr really steps and shows his worth.
Seriously? Not to disparage Jagr and the incredible job he's done so far, but over two of the brightest young stars in RNH and Stamkos? Plus, they can be expected to be at or near the top of the league for years to come.

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12-10-2011, 11:14 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Seriously? Not to disparage Jagr and the incredible job he's done so far, but over two of the brightest young stars in RNH and Stamkos? Plus, they can be expected to be at or near the top of the league for years to come.
I guess it depends on your criteria--obviously Jagr's value is far below those two, and pretty much any decent forward under the age of 25.

On the other hand, if you approach it from a situational perspective--two minutes to go in a tie game and you need a goal, who do you want on the ice, etc.--then I think you could make a pretty compelling case that Jagr is still up near the top of the list of the "best" players in the world.

(I'll say this, though, Malkin's late-game performance the other night was downright scary. It's a good thing that that guy doesn't play "angry" all the time.)

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12-10-2011, 11:24 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
Sure I can. If not for Jagr missing 4 games, he would be ahead of many of these players in scoring.

I would take Jagr ahead of RHN, Vanek, Stamkos and Ovechkin.

The Sedins need each other as well.

Jagr still has too much talent and skill. I don't wish for Giroux to miss anytime, but if he does I think this is where Jagr really steps and shows his worth.
If you'd seriously take Jags over Ovechkin, then you're basically saying all that matters is where players currently are in scoring. If that's the case then Kessel (ew) and Lupul (triple ew) are "better" than Jagr. So is Kris Versteeg (lol). Ovechkin is a top 5 player in this league. You're joking if you think differently. He had 85 points in a "horrible year".

And honestly, you cannot even begin to make a case that he's better than Stamkos. 2 consecutive 45+ goal, 90+ point seasons and on pace to do it again. And he plays the center position (more important than the wing) and he's 21 years old.

And again, RNH I dunno how you make the case there either. RNH is 18 years old, in on a much weaker team, has an immature body and is still outscoring Jagr. It's impressive what he is doing @ such a young age.

Vanek, MAYBE you can make a case for, but given ages, etc. even that's a tough one.

I'd also have to stack Selanne up there against Jags. He's of a comparable age (actually older), plays on a much weaker line (Koivu and Cogliano have been his linemates for the majority of the year) and he is scoring @ the same pace as Jagr but w/ more overall points.

I love Jagr too. Right now he's right up there w/ Giroux and Pronger & Timonen & Briere as my favorite flyers, but you need to be reasonable. He isn't a top 10 forward in this league anymore. And that's OK. Wayne Gretzky @ age 38 wasn't a top 10 forward in the NHL either. It's borderline impossible to be top-10 in the league @ the age of 39. Jagr's as close as anyone has ever been, but he still isn't quite there right now.

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12-10-2011, 11:25 PM
  #431
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Flyers 5-2 Victory Over Lightning Could be Costly Win

Quote:
The Flyers beat the Tampa Bay Lightning, 5-2 tonight, but there should be a guarded enthusiasm that goes along with the victory. NHL leading scorer Claude Giroux and goaltender Ilya Bryzgalov each left the game early with apparent injuries.

Giroux, who assisted on two second period goals, was accidentally kneed in the head by teammate Wayne Simmonds, who tried to jump over the center to avoid a collision. Giroux stayed on the ice for some time, holding his head, before skating slowly to the bench. He remained at the end of the bench until there was approimately one minute left in the middle stanza.

“Yeah, he kind of fell and he was right in front of me so I tried to jump over him,” Simmonds said after the game. “I couldn’t really feel it, you know, it was kind of fast. I just kept trying to go, and then I turned around and he was still on the ice there. So, obviously I was worried about him.”

Linemate Jaromir Jagr wasn’t seeing the possibly dire situation regarding Giroux.

“I think he’s going to be OK, he’s a tough guy,” Jagr said after the game. “I don’t worry about him, I think he’s going to be back.”
Read More: http://nhlhotstove.com/flyers-5-2-vi...be-costly-win/


Last edited by MiamiScreamingEagles: 12-10-2011 at 11:30 PM.
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12-11-2011, 12:57 AM
  #432
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I didn't see the game I was at work tonight, but after Giroux how did Couts do taking over some 1st line duties? I didn't read through to much of the thread so if anyone gives me any answer it would be appreciated thanks!

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12-11-2011, 01:57 AM
  #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
I understand, I'm just being honest. Right now, I'd easily take the following over Jagr:

Giroux
Crosby
Malkin
Ovie (yes, he struggles now, but he's still elite)
H Sedin
D Sedin
RNH
Toews
Kopitar
Vanek
Stamkos
Kane
Datsyuk
Backstrom

That's 14 right there just off the top of the head and I don't think you can really argue any of them...
the thing is Jagr is perfect fit for Roo, he done lots of assists to him, and Jagr himself is threat himself. Now look at your list again and tell me how many of these you would rather see instead of Jagr with Roo ?

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12-11-2011, 03:42 AM
  #434
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I didn't see the game I was at work tonight, but after Giroux how did Couts do taking over some 1st line duties? I didn't read through to much of the thread so if anyone gives me any answer it would be appreciated thanks!
Couturier was simply magnificent and filled in for Giroux "admirably," as Holmgren accurately described it. He's really a special player, and we're extremely lucky to have him. He and Giroux are the future cornerstones of this team more than anything, and both will be superior players to Richards and Carter at their peaks (Giroux is already). That first line with Jagr and Hartnell didn't miss a beat with Sean and had numerous phenomenal scoring chances that somehow stayed out of the net. Love the kid's game.

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12-11-2011, 04:37 AM
  #435
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Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
Couturier was simply magnificent and filled in for Giroux "admirably," as Holmgren accurately described it. He's really a special player, and we're extremely lucky to have him. He and Giroux are the future cornerstones of this team more than anything, and both will be superior players to Richards and Carter at their peaks (Giroux is already). That first line with Jagr and Hartnell didn't miss a beat with Sean and had numerous phenomenal scoring chances that somehow stayed out of the net. Love the kid's game.
yep you can actually see some of those chances on nhl.com in highlights of the match

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12-11-2011, 06:40 AM
  #436
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I didn't see the game I was at work tonight, but after Giroux how did Couts do taking over some 1st line duties? I didn't read through to much of the thread so if anyone gives me any answer it would be appreciated thanks!
Like others have said they didn't skip a beat. The kid could've scored two goals at least, if it weren't for him not catching any breaks.

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12-11-2011, 07:38 AM
  #437
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I didn't see the game I was at work tonight, but after Giroux how did Couts do taking over some 1st line duties? I didn't read through to much of the thread so if anyone gives me any answer it would be appreciated thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
Couturier was simply magnificent and filled in for Giroux "admirably," as Holmgren accurately described it. He's really a special player, and we're extremely lucky to have him. He and Giroux are the future cornerstones of this team more than anything, and both will be superior players to Richards and Carter at their peaks (Giroux is already). That first line with Jagr and Hartnell didn't miss a beat with Sean and had numerous phenomenal scoring chances that somehow stayed out of the net. Love the kid's game.
The scary thing is (and please believe me this is no slight @ Giroux, but rather praise for Couturier) that the 1st line actually got MORE DOMINANT after Giroux left the ice.

With Couturier out there, the 1st line absolutely dominated defensively. Don't think the Lightning had a single scoring chance on them in the 3rd period. It was straight up dominance from that line.... ~75% of the time out there was spent in the offensive zone.

And with Giroux out, Jagr had the puck on his stick a lot more and was really cycling beautifully w/ Couturier and Hartnell and they created about 3 EASY scoring chances and a couple more good ones too.

Unfortunately, that's where the praise ends b/c Couturier couldn't finish on 3 beautiful passes from Jagr. It wasn't totally his fault, as the defender was perfectly positioned on one, but really all 3 should have been goals. Cooter definitely needs to work a bit on his finishing. I think perhaps playing on the 4th for so long kind of put him in an offensive lull... he looked a little rusty with the positioning of his shots.

And also, let's be honest, you've pretty much got to be starstruck when you're a 19 y/o rookie and you all of the sudden find yourself promoted from the 4th line to the 1st and you look to your right and see living legend Jaromir freaking Jagr feeding you pucks.

But if there's one thing last night reaffirmed for me, it is the fact that Couturier is going to be a star in this league. His defense is on a whole nother level compared to any other 18 or 19 year old in recent memory (perhaps Toews / Staal were there too), and his offensive ability is clearly there too. When you can step up from the 4th to the 1st line C role and that line can not miss a beat, that's a good sign you've got some talent.

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12-11-2011, 09:28 AM
  #438
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Thanks all for the replies. I watched the highlights and saw a couple of those chances but knew that didn't mean thats how the line was playing the whole without Giroux. I appreciate the responses and it's good that we didn't miss a beat without him. That said he better be back soon haha.

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12-11-2011, 09:36 AM
  #439
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Thanks all for the replies. I watched the highlights and saw a couple of those chances but knew that didn't mean thats how the line was playing the whole without Giroux. I appreciate the responses and it's good that we didn't miss a beat without him. That said he better be back soon haha.
Yeah, I definitely want Giroux back ASAP.

But I do hope that last night might've changed Lavvy's mind about how best to use Couturier. IMO, he'd be much better swapping duties w/ Talbot. Cooter on the 3rd, Talbot on the 4th.

I doubt it happens, but I can dream, right?

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12-11-2011, 09:36 AM
  #440
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Kimmo might be on pace for most assists without a goal in one season.

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12-11-2011, 10:14 AM
  #441
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
Yeah, I definitely want Giroux back ASAP.

But I do hope that last night might've changed Lavvy's mind about how best to use Couturier. IMO, he'd be much better swapping duties w/ Talbot. Cooter on the 3rd, Talbot on the 4th.

I doubt it happens, but I can dream, right?
I think the same about Couts, but I also think Lavy knows the team the best and maybe he is trying to limit his numbers because of how long the season is? That's what I really think is going on with Couts. This will be his longest season ever and they want to try to keep him as fresh as they can for and if we make the playoffs. Also might be keeping him fresh for crunch time in April when we are fighting for playoff position. Im happy with everything so far since they are playing excellent hockey and winning. Most importantly they are showing effort every night. I don't care if we lose when we play our balls off, I care when we lose and play a ****** game haha

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12-11-2011, 02:07 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
The scary thing is (and please believe me this is no slight @ Giroux, but rather praise for Couturier) that the 1st line actually got MORE DOMINANT after Giroux left the ice.

With Couturier out there, the 1st line absolutely dominated defensively. Don't think the Lightning had a single scoring chance on them in the 3rd period. It was straight up dominance from that line.... ~75% of the time out there was spent in the offensive zone.

And with Giroux out, Jagr had the puck on his stick a lot more and was really cycling beautifully w/ Couturier and Hartnell and they created about 3 EASY scoring chances and a couple more good ones too.

Unfortunately, that's where the praise ends b/c Couturier couldn't finish on 3 beautiful passes from Jagr. It wasn't totally his fault, as the defender was perfectly positioned on one, but really all 3 should have been goals. Cooter definitely needs to work a bit on his finishing. I think perhaps playing on the 4th for so long kind of put him in an offensive lull... he looked a little rusty with the positioning of his shots.

And also, let's be honest, you've pretty much got to be starstruck when you're a 19 y/o rookie and you all of the sudden find yourself promoted from the 4th line to the 1st and you look to your right and see living legend Jaromir freaking Jagr feeding you pucks.

But if there's one thing last night reaffirmed for me, it is the fact that Couturier is going to be a star in this league. His defense is on a whole nother level compared to any other 18 or 19 year old in recent memory (perhaps Toews / Staal were there too), and his offensive ability is clearly there too. When you can step up from the 4th to the 1st line C role and that line can not miss a beat, that's a good sign you've got some talent.
Well said, all around.

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12-11-2011, 03:09 PM
  #443
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If Schenn and Couturier pan out the way we all hope then we'll have Pittsburgh-esque center depth.

Giroux
Couturier
Schenn

Crosby
Malkin
Staal


Only we'll have high end winger depth, van Riemsdyk, Voracek.

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12-11-2011, 03:32 PM
  #444
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Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
If Schenn and Couturier pan out the way we all hope then we'll have Pittsburgh-esque center depth.

Giroux
Couturier
Schenn

Crosby
Malkin
Staal


Only we'll have high end winger depth, van Riemsdyk, Voracek.
I prefer Philly-esque center depth.

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12-11-2011, 04:24 PM
  #445
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When Briere is gone...

Giroux
Schenn
Couturier
Cousins


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