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#27 - 12.11.2011 | Florida Panthers @ New York Rangers | 7:30 PM - MSG (HD)

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12-11-2011, 04:39 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
Are you serious? I mean, I know some folks like Avery, and I know that most guys here can't stand EC, but if you think Avery's being judged by his goal scoring, I have to wonder if you're paying attention. I don't mean to be confrontational, but if this team is relying on Sean Avery to win us a game, then ****ing fail for nail right here and now.

Christensen brings shootout. Nothing else. If whoever is in the slot isn't going to be seeing alot of ice time, it only makes sense to go with the player that can bring a skillset we can use. and who knows. Maybe he and Hagelin can get some flow.

Seriously. I've had enough of people *****ing about Avery's ice time. If he was good enough to get the time on ice, he'd be getting it. Really. He's not that good.
Were paying Dubinsky 4.2 Million Dollars for 1 Goal. Not with Torts for Ice Time. Avery has been playing fine in his very limited role. He doesn't get any minutes because Torts doesn't like him. He'd rather watch Dubinsky and Boyle fail time and time again.

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12-11-2011, 04:42 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Fail. What a joke. Christensen has done...what, exactly, to warrant a spot over Avery, with whom we are 11-3-1 on the season (when he's in the lineup)?
You're one of my most respected posters on here, please, don't start with the Avery effect. He's made a difference in maybe 4 of those games. Don't attribute the team's success to a player who hardly sees the ice.

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12-11-2011, 04:43 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
Are you serious? I mean, I know some folks like Avery, and I know that most guys here can't stand EC, but if you think Avery's being judged by his goal scoring, I have to wonder if you're paying attention. I don't mean to be confrontational, but if this team is relying on Sean Avery to win us a game, then ****ing fail for nail right here and now.

Christensen brings shootout. Nothing else. If whoever is in the slot isn't going to be seeing alot of ice time, it only makes sense to go with the player that can bring a skillset we can use. and who knows. Maybe he and Hagelin can get some flow.

Seriously. I've had enough of people *****ing about Avery's ice time. If he was good enough to get the time on ice, he'd be getting it. Really. He's not that good.
He and Zuccarello are cult figures. Very small, dedicated followings.

This decision has been awhile coming. Sean has done nothing in his limited ice time recently to bring anything on him. Hagelin, on the other hand took his limited ice time and amassed 6 points in 8 games, while playing on the penalty kill.

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12-11-2011, 04:44 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by SLU Hockey View Post
He and Zuccarello are cult figures. Very small, dedicated followings.

This decision has been awhile coming. Sean has done nothing in his limited ice time recently to bring anything on him. Hagelin, on the other hand took his limited ice time and amassed 6 points in 8 games, while playing on the penalty kill.
Avery limited time is 4-6 minutes. Hagelin limited time is 9-12 minutes.

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12-11-2011, 04:46 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by nyrleetch View Post
Were paying Dubinsky 4.2 Million Dollars for 1 Goal. Not with Torts for Ice Time. Avery has been playing fine in his very limited role. He doesn't get any minutes because Torts doesn't like him. He'd rather watch Dubinsky and Boyle fail time and time again.
And all of Avery's ZERO assists? Against Dubinsky's eleven? How about our outstanding penalty kill, to which Avery has been SO important to. Or our powerplay, which scored in 7 straight games? Or some great defensive play.

Let's not kid around. Dubi was our scoring leader last season, and Avery got sent to the AHL. There's no comparison.

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12-11-2011, 04:46 PM
  #81
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Maybe we're "show-casing" EC?

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12-11-2011, 04:47 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by nyrleetch View Post
Avery limited time is 4-6 minutes. Hagelin limited time is 9-12 minutes.
There are two assertions which you have made which I strongly disagree with.

1. Avery would be more effective with Dubi's ice time than Dubi would be. Dubinsky has 2 straight 20 goal seasons of which Avery has had none in his entire career. Sean has not bested 48 in a season while Dubi got 54 with injuries last year.

2. That Avery is more important to this team than Tortorella. The club is 16-6-4. They are finally playing well and buying in to Tortorella's system. So for that reason if Torts wants to slight a 3rd line players minutes to #13 forward status, I say go right ahead.

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12-11-2011, 04:48 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by SLU Hockey View Post
He can play pivot sufficiently for 4th line duty.
I disagree. He can't kill penalties, is weak on the puck, and rarely ever creates a good offensive chance (although he has the ability to do so). It's top-6 or nothing for a player like EC. I'd prefer nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
You're one of my most respected posters on here, please, don't start with the Avery effect. He's made a difference in maybe 4 of those games. Don't attribute the team's success to a player who hardly sees the ice.
I really am not an Avery fan, but you cannot deny the effect he has when he plays. He may not play much, be he'll make his mark. He's a solid bottom-6 player, and adds depth to the team. Christensen...not so much.

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12-11-2011, 04:48 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
And all of Avery's ZERO assists? Against Dubinsky's eleven? How about our outstanding penalty kill, to which Avery has been SO important to. Or our powerplay, which scored in 7 straight games? Or some great defensive play.

Let's not kid around. Dubi was our scoring leader last season, and Avery got sent to the AHL. There's no comparison.
Avery had 21 assists last year in very limited time. How do you expect him to get points playing 4 minutes a game? Avery got sent to the AHL because of the coach.

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12-11-2011, 04:49 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR510 View Post
Don't understand EC over Avery... at all.
I was afraid of this as EC took the warm ups in Buffalo......Torts was likely thinking about it then. His exuse will be he needs to get EC a game here and there........what happens when Rupp is back?.............fans will riot if Avery is sent down again.........he hasnt done anything to deserve a demotion

So what's with the lines?

Is Dubi with Richards and Cally again? , same 1st line........it seems Torts likes Boyle with Mitchell and Hagelin..........Feds, EC, Prust?

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12-11-2011, 04:49 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
I disagree. He can't kill penalties, is weak on the puck, and rarely ever creates a good offensive chance (although he has the ability to do so). It's top-6 or nothing for a player like EC. I'd prefer nothing.

.
No,, but he can win a defensive zone faceoff, which has been kind of a big issue for our team of late.

Not to mention, EC has occasionally shown he is capable of scoring on the power play. I would look for him on our 2nd unit.

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12-11-2011, 04:50 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by SLU Hockey View Post
There are two assertions which you have made which I strongly disagree with.

1. Avery would be more effective with Dubi's ice time than Dubi would be. Dubinsky has 2 straight 20 goal seasons of which Avery has had none in his entire career. Sean has not bested 48 in a season while Dubi got 54 with injuries last year.

2. That Avery is more important to this team than Tortorella. The club is 16-6-4. They are finally playing well and buying in to Tortorella's system. So for that reason if Torts wants to slight a 3rd line players minutes to #13 forward status, I say go right ahead.
I am not trying to say Avery is better than Dubinsky. I am saying how can you bench Avery for having more goals than Dubinsky when Avery only gets 4-6 minutes a night and doesn't get any powerplay time.

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12-11-2011, 04:50 PM
  #88
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No surprise how Avery is treated by this coaching staff.

Knew it was coming yesterday when Avery saw 1 shift after the Sabres tied the game. No need to dress him if he won't be used, but yet the offensive black hole that is Boyle gets a regular shift so he can slow down Hagelin and Mitchell; and get PP time and not do jack **** with it.

Avery can control play below the hash marks with the best of them, and that's Torts hockey in a nutshell.

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12-11-2011, 04:52 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
And all of Avery's ZERO assists? Against Dubinsky's eleven? How about our outstanding penalty kill, to which Avery has been SO important to. Or our powerplay, which scored in 7 straight games? Or some great defensive play.

Let's not kid around. Dubi was our scoring leader last season, and Avery got sent to the AHL. There's no comparison.
Dubinsky has 1 assist on 64 minutes on the powerplay on the year.

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12-11-2011, 04:52 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by nyrleetch View Post
I am not trying to say Avery is better than Dubinsky. I am saying how can you bench Avery for having more goals than Dubinsky when Avery only gets 4-6 minutes a night and doesn't get any powerplay time.
Because we were told by Avery's biggest supporters all through last season and the offseason that assists were JUST as important as goals are.

If that is the case, then Dubinsky is kicking the crap out of Avery in production.

Unless Avery's guys are now saying they were wrong about last year, in which case Avery did deserve to be benched last season.

It is one or the other.

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12-11-2011, 04:54 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by SLU Hockey View Post
Because we were told by Avery's biggest supporters all through last season and the offseason that assists were JUST as important as goals are.

If that is the case, then Dubinsky is kicking the crap out of Avery in production.

Unless Avery's guys are now saying they were wrong about last year, in which case Avery did deserve to be benched last season.

It is one or the other.

Last year I was told his assists didn't matter because he couldn't score.

This year his goals don't matter because he doesn't have any assists?

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12-11-2011, 04:57 PM
  #92
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I think the reality is in between. Assists are not of the same value of goals, but they are not worthless either.

Now, for Avery fans, whatever stats happen to be pro-Avery are valid. If he was -30 it would be because the +/- stat is crap. +30 and he would be a defensive machine.

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12-11-2011, 04:57 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by nyrleetch View Post
Last year I was told his assists didn't matter because he couldn't score.

This year his goals don't matter because he doesn't have any assists?
1 goal and 11 assists is better than 3 goals and zero assists any which way you slice it.

Avery isn't being benched because he's not producing. He's being benched because he's not worth having on the ice compared to our other 3 lines.

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12-11-2011, 04:58 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by SLU Hockey View Post
I think the reality is in between. Assists are not of the same value of goals, but they are not worthless either.

Now, for Avery fans, whatever stats happen to be pro-Avery are valid. If he was -30 it would be because the +/- stat is crap. +30 and he would be a defensive machine.
It's the exact same from the guys who want Avery off the time. They spin the stats for their gain.

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12-11-2011, 04:59 PM
  #95
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Though I would like Avery to help this team, the fact that the fan coo for him as the savior of the franchise is downright embarrassing.

People who suggest Avery has any value past the 4th line are in essence saying that they know more about hockey than any of the 29 GMS in the league who passed on Sean at 900k for this season. A 4th liners salary. If they want to believe they are smarter than all the minds in hockey, that is theirs to believe.

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12-11-2011, 04:59 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
1 goal and 11 assists is better than 3 goals and zero assists any which way you slice it.

Avery isn't being benched because he's not producing. He's being benched because he's not worth having on the ice compared to our other 3 lines.

Dubinsky is getting the chance to put up points. How exactly has Avery been given the chance? Avery is producing fine for his limited minutes.

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12-11-2011, 05:04 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by nyrleetch View Post
Avery limited time is 4-6 minutes. Hagelin limited time is 9-12 minutes.
Oh wow. Give me a break, Avery also has years and years of pro NHL experience over Carl, yet somehow it's because of his doubled ice team, that he is producing and bringing what Avery cannot. I don't even dislike Avery and this is a completely ridiculous excuse for why Hagelin has outplayed him in every facet of the game since his call-up.

Get real.

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12-11-2011, 05:04 PM
  #98
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Dubinsky is getting the chance to put up points. How exactly has Avery been given the chance? Avery is producing fine for his limited minutes.
He's been given no chance.

In any close game he's right on the bench, not jumping over at all. 7 minutes of TOI per game, what came first the lackluster play or the limited ice time? Sure Hagelin proved to be a better 3rd line option than Avery, no denying that.

In the right mold, Avery can be a valuable asset to a team, and he's not being given a shot right now.

1 of 4 players in the NHL averaging under 9 minutes of ice/game with more than 3 goals.

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12-11-2011, 05:04 PM
  #99
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Avery has gotten 7 minutes of ice time a game this season.

He has 3 points in 15 games.

Christensen has gotten 7 and a half minutes of ice time a game this season.

He has 4 points in 16 games.

Rupp got 6 minutes of ice time a game this season

He had 1 point in 6 games.

These are all pretty comparable. You can claim that EC got some PP time mixed in but 3 of the 4 of his points were at even strength, so he is producing just as much at even strength as Avery.

Rupp is producing almost the same as Avery. 1 goal in 6 at 6 minutes a game is roughly equal to 3 in 15 at 7 minutes a game.

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12-11-2011, 05:05 PM
  #100
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Just the fact that the player who is taking Avery's place is the most useless and soft player we have makes me wonder. Unless we go to shootout, Christensen is absolutely useless. It's amazing how he's even on the team.

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