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Old
12-11-2011, 03:28 PM
  #51
BaseballCoach
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Originally Posted by NerdAtTheCoolTable View Post
What's sad is that all 3 of them were once Habs.
We had a kick-ass third line in Moore-Lapierre-Pyatt that did not cost a lot of money and was shutting down top-2 lines on the other teams while potting a few ourselves. They also opened up the ice for either Gionta or Cammalleri seeing as one of the two would not be facing a top-2 line.

Gauthier's biggest errors were letting these three guys go when they did not cost much and actually worked well!!

Otherwise, I have liked most of PG's moves. But Moore-Lapierre-Pyatt was and still would be better and not much more money than Nokelainen-Darche-Weber.

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Old
12-11-2011, 07:49 PM
  #52
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funny thing, those who are willing to get rid of Weber are probably the same whining we rush our youngsters and trade 'em away before they improved enough to either be kept or have decent value in a trade.
My desire to move Weber has nothing to do with his age, or that I think he won't develop.

Quite the opposite, I agree he will develop elsewhere.

However he is what you have in terms of RH Dmen.

PK Subban - A 1st unit PP Guy, a 22 year old whose defence is already at 1st pairing level. All around an untouchable player.

Then you have Diaz and Weber.... two guys who are undersized, are good puckmovers, good passers and will be part of the PP. Probably on the second unit in Montreal.

I think you have a redundancy here.

You cant ice a defence that is Subban, Diaz, and Weber all playing on the right side of the ice, as your three pairings. One of Diaz/Weber has to go, and a physical presence brought in. Just to balance the lineup.

A lineup that will look a lot better when Tinordi is ready on Left Defence, and Emelin is one of the three right dmen.

Its all about Balance... and a lineup with Subban, Diaz, Weber is redundant and offers no balance.

So figure out which one of Weber/Diaz is better (i think its Diaz personally) and get help in a position of need for the other guy... ie another forward prospect.

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Old
12-11-2011, 07:51 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
We had a kick-ass third line in Moore-Lapierre-Pyatt that did not cost a lot of money and was shutting down top-2 lines on the other teams while potting a few ourselves. They also opened up the ice for either Gionta or Cammalleri seeing as one of the two would not be facing a top-2 line.

Gauthier's biggest errors were letting these three guys go when they did not cost much and actually worked well!!

Otherwise, I have liked most of PG's moves. But Moore-Lapierre-Pyatt was and still would be better and not much more money than Nokelainen-Darche-Weber.
Would either of Lappy or Moore have been happy on the fourth line? Lappy complained he wasn't getting enough ice time... and Moore always seemed to prefer being on the third line in Tampa over being 4th in Montreal (as he knew he would be, once the Eller trade was made).

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12-11-2011, 08:00 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Would either of Lappy or Moore have been happy on the fourth line? Lappy complained he wasn't getting enough ice time... and Moore always seemed to prefer being on the third line in Tampa over being 4th in Montreal (as he knew he would be, once the Eller trade was made).
Lappy complained because he was used for less than 7min a game and Pyatt and Darche were used ahead of him.

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Old
12-11-2011, 08:02 PM
  #55
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Overpaid players we cant move are staying, young players on ELCs with obvious talent will be moved for more overpaid players. Just like every other year since we traded Roy.

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Old
12-11-2011, 08:09 PM
  #56
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Players I'd like to get : Kulemin and Erat.

Players I would trade or get rid of: Gomez (re-entry waivers), Gionta, Cammalleri, Weber and also a 2012 1st to make it happen.

Plekanec/Erat/AK
DD/Cole/Pacioretty
Eller/Kulemin/Leblanc
What/ev/er

Markov/Emelin
Gorges/Subban
Kaberle/Diaz

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Old
12-11-2011, 08:18 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Players I'd like to get : Kulemin and Erat.

Players I would trade or get rid of: Gomez (re-entry waivers), Gionta, Cammalleri, Weber and also a 2012 1st to make it happen.

Plekanec/Erat/AK
DD/Cole/Pacioretty
Eller/Kulemin/Leblanc
What/ev/er

Markov/Emelin
Gorges/Subban
Kaberle/Diaz
You want to trade the two guys who scored 28 of our last 63 goals in the playoffs (in 26 games), our two best playoff scorers.... To get Kulemin and Erat, while also giving up Weber and a 1st???

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Old
12-11-2011, 09:09 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Players I'd like to get : Kulemin and Erat.
Why?

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Old
12-11-2011, 09:26 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Why?
To have a more balanced three line offense and free up about $3 million in cap space over keeping Gionta and Cammalleri. If we keep Gionta and Cammalleri we'll have to make cuts elsewhere with Price, Gorges, Subban and others getting raises. We could only afford Gionta, Cammalleri and Gomez in the first place because we had cheap young players to offset overpaying them and those days are drawing to a close.

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Old
12-12-2011, 07:42 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Lappy complained because he was used for less than 7min a game and Pyatt and Darche were used ahead of him.
How many minutes did our fourth line get vs Jersey? Answer: Less than 8.

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12-12-2011, 07:48 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
To have a more balanced three line offense and free up about $3 million in cap space over keeping Gionta and Cammalleri. If we keep Gionta and Cammalleri we'll have to make cuts elsewhere with Price, Gorges, Subban and others getting raises. We could only afford Gionta, Cammalleri and Gomez in the first place because we had cheap young players to offset overpaying them and those days are drawing to a close.
You also got rid of Gomez... once you got rid of gomez you had more than enough cap space to re-sign all our own guys, without trading Cammaleri, Gionta, + Weber + 1st for significant downgrades.

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Old
12-12-2011, 08:51 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
Camallerri - Plekanec - Gionta
Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
Kostitsyn - Eller - Moen
White - Nokelainen - Blunden

Markov - Emelin
Subban - Gorges
Kaberle - Gill

Weber

Although, the top line is way too soft and small - I would try to move Gionta or Cammallerri for a bigger, physical winger than can play top six. Leblanc goe to Hamilton with Diaz and the rest are fair game. Trade or waive.
Can't believe you guys think Plek, DD and Eller are top 3 centers on a contending team, they are not.

It's one of the weakest center lineups in the league, and our results and goal scoring show it.

DD should be a third line winger. He is too small to take on very good 2nd and 3rd line centers in the PO.

Eller may bust even at 3rd line C if he does not start providing points. I'm getting quite worried about him. And Pleks is a great 2nd line center, good 1st line center.

That's it.

We need a 1A/B center badly, or we're going nowhere. Get real. This is our number one priority.


Last edited by bsl: 12-12-2011 at 08:57 AM.
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Old
12-12-2011, 09:06 AM
  #63
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For those who continually worry about the cap.... Gomez will be gone next year. Teams in the south will love to have a guy who's a 7 million cap hit at a 4 million cost.

I don't see Gionta and Cammy as cap problems. Even Kaberles contract isn't that bothersome

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Old
12-12-2011, 09:09 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
What is our goal ? Barely making the playoffs, wasting picks and prospects doing so and getting eliminated in the first round. Or actually thinking about the future and trying to build a contender ?

Sadly, our GMs the last 5 years or so haven't been thinking long term at all.

Gill is a usefull asset for a team inspiring to win it all and we should try to get the most out of it.
You haven't been paying attention to the game plan have you. The goal is the playoffs and then these guys actually think they can take down anyone.

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12-12-2011, 09:14 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by habfaninvictoria View Post
For those who continually worry about the cap.... Gomez will be gone next year. Teams in the south will love to have a guy who's a 7 million cap hit at a 4 million cost.

I don't see Gionta and Cammy as cap problems. Even Kaberles contract isn't that bothersome
Looking at CapGeek the Islanders have a lot of cash coming off the books next year with Rolston's salary coming off. Gomez at $4 million real cost, and $7 million cap hit is attractive to them, Gomez would address a centre need too. Plus, it is New York and Gomez would probably welcome a move back to an area he is very familiar with.

That is the only other option other than a buyout, as most teams will be able to hit the cap floor.

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Old
12-12-2011, 09:23 AM
  #66
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When/If we are eventually healthy:

Max Pacioretty-David Desharnais-Erik Cole
Mike Cammalleri-Tomas Plekanec-Brian Gionta
Scott Gomez-Lars Eller-Andrei Kostitsyn
Travis Moen-Petteri Nokelainen-Ryan White
ex. Mathieu Darche

Andrei Markov-Alexei Emelin
Tomas Kaberle-Josh Gorges
Hal Gill-PK Subban
ex. Chris Campoli

Trade: Yannick Weber for a 3rd line forward with some size.

Send Down: Diaz.

I think that's the most likely scenario. Not alot of upside in burying Gomez in the minors this year unless you have the opportunity to take on a contributing salary in another deal.

I'd also move Cammalleri if a decent opportunity came up.

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12-12-2011, 09:26 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Looking at CapGeek the Islanders have a lot of cash coming off the books next year with Rolston's salary coming off. Gomez at $4 million real cost, and $7 million cap hit is attractive to them, Gomez would address a centre need too. Plus, it is New York and Gomez would probably welcome a move back to an area he is very familiar with.

That is the only other option other than a buyout, as most teams will be able to hit the cap floor.
Correction...Gomez actual real cost is going to be $5.5 next season per Cap Geek. $4.5 the following season.

Why isn't the minors another option for Gomez? Buyout is the worst option, IMO....then again its not my money!

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12-12-2011, 09:28 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Patty Roy View Post
Correction...Gomez actual real cost is going to be $5.5 next season per Cap Geek. $4.5 the following season.

Why isn't the minors another option for Gomez? Buyout is the worst option, IMO....then again its not my money!
Do you really need to ask that? We have owners who want to make money, not owners that want to win.

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12-12-2011, 12:33 PM
  #69
Frozenice
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You also got rid of Gomez... once you got rid of gomez you had more than enough cap space to re-sign all our own guys, without trading Cammaleri, Gionta, + Weber + 1st for significant downgrades.
I wouldn't consider them "significant downgrades", more lateral moves that bring elements to the team that the team is lacking. I think Erat would be an excellent winger for Plekanec and Eller could use a player like Kulemin on his line a lot more than Gionta.

I'm not a fan of teams that have a minestrone type flavour to them, which seems to me to be the problem we are having now. Yeah, Cammy and Gionta are good players but they don't fit in with the team we have and the way Martin system works. We could get complementary players for them and/or change our system to accommodate them, but why?

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12-12-2011, 12:37 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Can't believe you guys think Plek, DD and Eller are top 3 centers on a contending team, they are not.

It's one of the weakest center lineups in the league, and our results and goal scoring show it.

DD should be a third line winger. He is too small to take on very good 2nd and 3rd line centers in the PO.

Eller may bust even at 3rd line C if he does not start providing points. I'm getting quite worried about him. And Pleks is a great 2nd line center, good 1st line center.

That's it.

We need a 1A/B center badly, or we're going nowhere. Get real. This is our number one priority.
So true. Well said. And it's not a knock at any of the three players, we just need more variety. A little nastiness down the middle.

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Old
12-12-2011, 02:29 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Patty Roy View Post
When/If we are eventually healthy:

Max Pacioretty-David Desharnais-Erik Cole
Mike Cammalleri-Tomas Plekanec-Brian Gionta
Scott Gomez-Lars Eller-Andrei Kostitsyn
Travis Moen-Petteri Nokelainen-Ryan White
ex. Mathieu Darche

Andrei Markov-Alexei Emelin
Tomas Kaberle-Josh Gorges
Hal Gill-PK Subban
ex. Chris Campoli

Trade: Yannick Weber for a 3rd line forward with some size.

Send Down: Diaz.

I think that's the most likely scenario. Not alot of upside in burying Gomez in the minors this year unless you have the opportunity to take on a contributing salary in another deal.

I'd also move Cammalleri if a decent opportunity came up.
You know very well that Martin won't ask Gomez to play on the wing.... Eller is the one who will be pushed there.

And, as you, I would try to package Cammy + Weber for a younger, bigger winger like Stewart in St-Louis.

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Old
12-13-2011, 05:01 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
I wouldn't consider them "significant downgrades", more lateral moves that bring elements to the team that the team is lacking. I think Erat would be an excellent winger for Plekanec and Eller could use a player like Kulemin on his line a lot more than Gionta.

I'm not a fan of teams that have a minestrone type flavour to them, which seems to me to be the problem we are having now. Yeah, Cammy and Gionta are good players but they don't fit in with the team we have and the way Martin system works. We could get complementary players for them and/or change our system to accommodate them, but why?
So you are going to move a 1st rounder out of town to make "lateral moves"?

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Old
12-13-2011, 05:22 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
Do you really need to ask that? We have owners who want to make money, not owners that want to win.
care to name ONE who doesnt ?

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Old
12-13-2011, 05:39 AM
  #74
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So we are 100% sure Molson will never send Gomez to the minors? Really?

Why? Because he said so to a reporter last week?

Yeah, i really expected the owner of the hockey team to say about his highest paid player... "Hey Scott rehab that injury, and come back and do your best for this hockey team in the second half of the season. But it doesn't matter, because no matter how good you do, you'll be in Hamilton next year, we need the cap space."

Yeah, thats gonna bring up morale on the team and for the player himself. I'm sure he'll come back strong with such a vote of confidence from management.

Not to mention if he does have a good 2nd half and someone was willing to trade for the declining contract/big cap hit after the season, they'd now lowball us, knowing he's going on waivers.

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Old
12-13-2011, 06:14 AM
  #75
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Looking at CapGeek the Islanders have a lot of cash coming off the books next year with Rolston's salary coming off. Gomez at $4 million real cost, and $7 million cap hit is attractive to them, Gomez would address a centre need too. Plus, it is New York and Gomez would probably welcome a move back to an area he is very familiar with.

That is the only other option other than a buyout, as most teams will be able to hit the cap floor.
I think that might work but your facts are wrong...Gomez has a 7.35 mil cap hit and his salary will be 5.5 mil next year, 4.5 mil in 13-14.

If no NHL team wants him, I'm sure they can find a KHL team to take him off our hands.

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