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Criticism of Briere and JVR

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Old
12-12-2011, 05:21 PM
  #26
WeekendAtBernies
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Dunno why anybody is surprised by the criticism of JVR... he's whipping boy #1 when it comes to flyers fans on hfboards.

I can't explain why they hate him... I guess a lot of it has to do w/ the fact that he got a big new contract which 90% of our fans declared to be another stupid Homer mistake. I mean sure, he's on pace for 25-25 and his new contract hasn't even kicked in, but who cares? It's too much fun to rip him.

I guess another part of it is that he showed potential in the playoffs and everyone started irrationally thinking "YES, we're going to get this every single night next year and JVR will score 40+ goals!!!!".

Not to say that he couldn't score 40 goals, because he was on that pace before his unfortunate injury sidetracked him, but to expect that out of him @ 22 years of age is a wee bit ridiculous. Especially when he has zero chemistry w/ his linemates.

At any rate, it's all a bunch of hogwash. JVR is pretty clearly not back to his normal self yet after this latest injury (the speed hasn't been there like it was prior to the injury), he has no chemistry w/ his linemates, he's not getting anywhere near the TOI he could/should be getting, and he's still on pace for a 25-25 season @ age 22 (and that's after his pace has slowed considerably as a result of his injury... he was on pace for 35-35 not that long ago).

And don't tell anyone else this, but in 29 games to JVR's 23 games and a heck of a lot more TOI per game, Bobby Ryan only has 16 points (the same total as JVR!!!).

Yes, the Bobby Ryan that every single one (or like 99%) of our fans wanted us to trade for when he was on the block a couple weeks ago.

Apparently, it's OK to hit a slump when you're 24 years old, you've been perfectly healthy, you've been playing alongside Perry and Getzlaf who you've had tremendous chemistry with in the past, etc. In that case, it's OK to have 16 pts in 29 games playing 18:55 per game while making 5.1M per year.

But if you're in a slump and you're 22 years old, and you've struggled w/ injuries, and you've been playing alongside a hodgepodge of linemates who have zero chemistry w/ you, it's not OK... you have no legitimate excuses. Having 16 points in 23 games while playing only 15:51 per game and making only 1.654M is borderline disgraceful.

Screw you JVR!!!! YOU FREAKING BLOW. We should've taken Turris or Gagner or Hickey.

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Old
12-12-2011, 05:28 PM
  #27
WeekendAtBernies
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As far as Briere goes, he got off to a slow start, but he's got 8 goals and 12 assists in his last 20 games, and he has zero chemistry w/ his linemates.

Anyone criticizing him must be joking...

Yeah he isn't great defensively, but at least he tries. He hasn't been good defensively ever. Did people all the sudden start expecting more out of him? Cause it's not going to happen.

If some idiots among our fan base are expecting him to go out a dominate for 60 minutes, it's just not going to happen. You're clueless if you think that's the kind of player Briere is. Briere is just a clutch MFer that pops up once or twice a game w/ big plays. He will never dominate a shift, he will never have great shift after great shift after great shift like Giroux, but when you need that game-tying goal really badly, that's when Danny pops up.

As I said w/ my comments about JVR, I think most of our fans who criticize guys like JVR and Briere are just uninformed idiots. You can't expect a player to be something he's not and never has been.

You can't expect Briere to be Giroux. It's never going to happen, that's never been his style.

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Old
12-12-2011, 07:29 PM
  #28
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JVR first whipping boy?

Have you not heard of this player called Matt Carle?

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Old
12-12-2011, 08:29 PM
  #29
WeekendAtBernies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pwnz0rs View Post
JVR first whipping boy?

Have you not heard of this player called Matt Carle?
Ill give you that one. It's a close race between Carle & JVR though...

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Old
12-12-2011, 08:51 PM
  #30
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With G out, it could be a good chance to get JvR back into beast mode...maybe switching up the lines would help:
JvR-Couturier-Jagr
hartnell-briere-read
Simmonds-Schenn-Voracek
Rinaldo-talbot-harry z

I really want to see that top 9 at work.
(While G is out)

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Old
12-12-2011, 09:25 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
With G out, it could be a good chance to get JvR back into beast mode...maybe switching up the lines would help:
JvR-Couturier-Jagr
hartnell-briere-read
Simmonds-Schenn-Voracek
Rinaldo-talbot-harry z

I really want to see that top 9 at work.
(While G is out)
Is schenn back? from what I was hearing it is more likely for Giroux to come back before Schenn does..but I havent read much today.

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Old
12-12-2011, 09:27 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
As far as Briere goes, he got off to a slow start, but he's got 8 goals and 12 assists in his last 20 games, and he has zero chemistry w/ his linemates.

Anyone criticizing him must be joking...

Yeah he isn't great defensively, but at least he tries. He hasn't been good defensively ever. Did people all the sudden start expecting more out of him? Cause it's not going to happen.

If some idiots among our fan base are expecting him to go out a dominate for 60 minutes, it's just not going to happen. You're clueless if you think that's the kind of player Briere is. Briere is just a clutch MFer that pops up once or twice a game w/ big plays. He will never dominate a shift, he will never have great shift after great shift after great shift like Giroux, but when you need that game-tying goal really badly, that's when Danny pops up.

As I said w/ my comments about JVR, I think most of our fans who criticize guys like JVR and Briere are just uninformed idiots. You can't expect a player to be something he's not and never has been.

You can't expect Briere to be Giroux. It's never going to happen, that's never been his style.
great post.

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Old
12-12-2011, 09:32 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
With G out, it could be a good chance to get JvR back into beast mode...maybe switching up the lines would help:
JvR-Couturier-Jagr
hartnell-briere-read
Simmonds-Schenn-Voracek
Rinaldo-talbot-harry z

I really want to see that top 9 at work.
(While G is out)
Hartnell already has chemistry with Jagr, don't split that up especially now with Giroux out.

It was only the 3rd period that we got to see Couturier with Hartnell and Jagr, he didn't look out of place but he also missed 3 great opportunities to score in which Jagr set him up really well. Jagr was carrying the puck during that 3rd period because he couldn't rely on Giroux (being out), JVR likes to carry the puck as well.

Jagr and JVR just don't have the chemistry. Couturier can win the face offs and play the two-way on that line and allow Jagr to do his thing and Hartnell can crash the net and look to get open and let Jagr find him.

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Old
12-12-2011, 09:33 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
Is schenn back? from what I was hearing it is more likely for Giroux to come back before Schenn does..but I havent read much today.
Ah youre right ...well id still work the top line for a night or two

(Man we have a dirty top 9 with or without roo)

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Old
12-12-2011, 09:46 PM
  #35
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Jvr isn't a bad player

on the other hand

Jvr isn't a good "2nd pick overall" player


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Old
12-12-2011, 11:08 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by OriginJM View Post
Jvr isn't a bad player

on the other hand

Jvr isn't a good "2nd pick overall" player

Overall that was just a bad draft. Very few players picked after JVR have cracked a lineup, and only a couple could you argue are doing better then JVR (Alzner, Couture and Shattenkirk seem to be the only standouts, and outside of Alzner filling a bigger need I am not sure if any are really upgrades on JVR).

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Old
12-12-2011, 11:57 PM
  #37
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briere jagr harts

dont mess with it till roo comes back

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Old
12-13-2011, 01:04 AM
  #38
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I just think we have to wait some more with JVR before crowning him "bust" or even not living up to potential. JVR shows signs of coming around, and he was playing pretty good against Buffalo and Tampa(injury has stalled him some this season). He shows signs of being more confident with the puck and all he really needs to start hitting the net hard. When I went to the game against Carolina, JVR was definitely our best player in person that I observed. I don't expect him to perform like Giroux, but he can dominate for stretches at a time already. Maybe it's just me being optimistic, but I feel like we are about to see the side of JVR we experienced in playoffs last year very soon for some reason.(just a gut feeling, but have seen his confidence growing out there more and more)

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Old
12-13-2011, 01:05 AM
  #39
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JvR was unstoppable during the playoffs last year. I think he just doesn't fit well on any of the lines.

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Old
12-13-2011, 01:20 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
briere jagr harts

dont mess with it till roo comes back
Do people not understand how amazing that first line is going to be with Couturier at center?

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Old
12-13-2011, 04:32 AM
  #41
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Whatever it is, I just hope he can one day put all the pieces together and realize his potential. The team really can't afford him being a bust.

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Old
12-13-2011, 07:29 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
Dunno why anybody is surprised by the criticism of JVR... he's whipping boy #1 when it comes to flyers fans on hfboards.

I can't explain why they hate him... I guess a lot of it has to do w/ the fact that he got a big new contract which 90% of our fans declared to be another stupid Homer mistake. I mean sure, he's on pace for 25-25 and his new contract hasn't even kicked in, but who cares? It's too much fun to rip him.

I guess another part of it is that he showed potential in the playoffs and everyone started irrationally thinking "YES, we're going to get this every single night next year and JVR will score 40+ goals!!!!".

Not to say that he couldn't score 40 goals, because he was on that pace before his unfortunate injury sidetracked him, but to expect that out of him @ 22 years of age is a wee bit ridiculous. Especially when he has zero chemistry w/ his linemates.

At any rate, it's all a bunch of hogwash. JVR is pretty clearly not back to his normal self yet after this latest injury (the speed hasn't been there like it was prior to the injury), he has no chemistry w/ his linemates, he's not getting anywhere near the TOI he could/should be getting, and he's still on pace for a 25-25 season @ age 22 (and that's after his pace has slowed considerably as a result of his injury... he was on pace for 35-35 not that long ago).

And don't tell anyone else this, but in 29 games to JVR's 23 games and a heck of a lot more TOI per game, Bobby Ryan only has 16 points (the same total as JVR!!!).

Yes, the Bobby Ryan that every single one (or like 99%) of our fans wanted us to trade for when he was on the block a couple weeks ago.

Apparently, it's OK to hit a slump when you're 24 years old, you've been perfectly healthy, you've been playing alongside Perry and Getzlaf who you've had tremendous chemistry with in the past, etc. In that case, it's OK to have 16 pts in 29 games playing 18:55 per game while making 5.1M per year.

But if you're in a slump and you're 22 years old, and you've struggled w/ injuries, and you've been playing alongside a hodgepodge of linemates who have zero chemistry w/ you, it's not OK... you have no legitimate excuses. Having 16 points in 23 games while playing only 15:51 per game and making only 1.654M is borderline disgraceful.

Screw you JVR!!!! YOU FREAKING BLOW. We should've taken Turris or Gagner or Hickey.
This gave me a good laugh this morning, I appreciate it!

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Old
12-13-2011, 07:31 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Le Oranje View Post
Whatever it is, I just hope he can one day put all the pieces together and realize his potential. The team really can't afford him being a bust.
What would you consider to be a bust? Even if he is a 25 - 25 -players, that is still a good player!

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Old
12-13-2011, 08:42 AM
  #44
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On The Orange Line this week they do A story on playing mean. They say Claude Giroux plays mean and thats partly why he's so good. While watching this I couldn't stop thinking if JVR would play mean he could be a top ten player in the league. Problem is he doesn't have a mean bone in his body.

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Old
12-13-2011, 11:26 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginJM View Post
Jvr isn't a bad player

on the other hand

Jvr isn't a good "2nd pick overall" player

Probably true, but was he the best available?

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Old
12-13-2011, 12:20 PM
  #46
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Probably true, but was he the best available?
yes, he was. would you rather have had turris?

and JVR still has time. He's only 22 people.

we've SEEN what he is capable of, and what he is capable of is the play of a 2nd overall pick, it's just a matter of consistency with him, and that will come with experience. it also hasn't helped that he has been hindered by some time out this season that has got in the way of getting a rhythm going.

that being said, he REALLY needs to step it up now with G out...

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Old
12-14-2011, 02:17 AM
  #47
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The only forward not currently exceeding last year's performance is Briere, who scored a career high number of goals in the 2010/2011 season.

Minutes of Time on Ice Needed to Score A Goal
Player: 2010-2011 stat | 2011-2012 stat
Giroux: 64 | 38 (scoring a goal on average 26 minutes faster)
Hartnell: 57 | 33 (24 minutes faster)
Jagr: 67*** | 40 (27 minutes faster)
Briere: 41 | 55 (14 minutes slower)
Talbot: 154 | 57 (98 minutes faster)
Van Riemsdyk: 52 | 47 (4 minutes faster)
Simmonds: 77 | 57 (20 minutes faster)
Voracek: 97 | 89 (8 minutes faster)

Minutes of Time on Ice Needed to Score A Point
Player: 2010-2011 stat | 2011-2012 stat
Giroux: 21 | 15 (scoring a point on average 6 minutes faster)
Hartnell: 28 | 18 (10 minutes faster)
Jagr: 24*** | 16 (8 minutes faster)
Briere: 21 | 21 (scoring points at the same rate)
Talbot: 59 | 32 (27 minutes faster)
Van Riemsdyk: 27 | 21 (6 minutes faster)
Simmonds: 36 | 33 (3 minutes faster)
Voracek: 42 | 23 (19 minutes faster)

***2007/2008 stats, last season played in NHL

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Old
12-14-2011, 02:24 AM
  #48
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Of course Briere is doing worse than last year. He was on a monster line last year that he had great chemistry with before the season started. That isn't the case this year.

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Old
12-14-2011, 02:33 AM
  #49
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Briere will be exactly what we expected. ~65 points (barring injury) in the regular season, with an awesome post season.

Are people actually disappointed with this?

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Old
12-14-2011, 10:15 AM
  #50
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Ok... I guess my thread got merged with this one... even though it was about other peeps on the team too.

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