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2011-2012 Rangers Prospects Thread (Juniors, College, International, Other) *Part 4*

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Old
12-12-2011, 01:36 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Taking Forgarty with that pick definitely softened the loss of Grachev for me. Fogarty has the potential to be the kind of player Grachev should be. A bruising power forward with a great scoring touch. I still think he'll develop well as a center, but with somewhat of a logjam of quality centers already, he could end up as a very good addition to the wing. His game is an ideal fit for our system.

Not crazy about his decision to go to Notre Dame, but I think he's a good candidate for the NCAA route if only because it all but guarantees that the Rangers don't need to make any decisions about him until he's in his Junior year at the earliest.
Completely agree.

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12-12-2011, 01:37 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Very happy with that pick. He has so many potential tools available to him that I don't think it matters whether he plays wing or center, he could be successful at either position. If even 3/4 of his potential "qualities" are met, he'll be a heck of a player.
Hope to see how he works along the boards with that size if he's gonna play Wing. I'm hoping for a Jamie Benn type forward, any more than that is Gravy

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12-12-2011, 02:57 PM
  #253
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Notre Dame is a good program. Jeff Jackson is a good coach. Under the current CBA,the Rangers will have Fogarty's rights until his class graduates in 2016. He could drop out of school after his junior year(2015) to become a free agent which is the 4th June since he was drafted. Blake Wheeler played one year in the USHL and 3 years at Minnesota. Dropped out of his junior year(2008) to become a free agent. 4th June since he was drafted in 2004.

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12-12-2011, 03:03 PM
  #254
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The Rangers said Grachev wanted out

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#NYR Pres/GM Glen Sather meets with media and says that Evgeny Grachev requested trade and team had shopped him for a year...
https://twitter.com/#!/thenyrangers/...90824570486784

Grachev spoke about his move to St.Louis. He wanted out.

Quote:
JR: When you found out about the trade, did you feel like it was the best thing for your career, getting a new change of scenery?

EG: "Yeah, I think so. I've been part of the Rangers' organization for three years. I guess it didn't work out for me the way I would have wanted it to be. But they drafted me and I just want to thank them for the opportunity they gave me. I'm just going to move on and hopefully be a part of this team. I don't think (the Blues traded for) me just as an AHL trade. So hopefully they have some expectations for me and I expect they're going to give me a shot in training camp and see what happens."
Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hocke...#ixzz1gMA0Qtmc

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12-12-2011, 03:11 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Notre Dame is a good program. Jeff Jackson is a good coach. Under the current CBA,the Rangers will have Fogarty's rights until his class graduates in 2016. He could drop out of school after his junior year(2015) to become a free agent which is the 4th June since he was drafted. Blake Wheeler played one year in the USHL and 3 years at Minnesota. Dropped out of his junior year(2008) to become a free agent. 4th June since he was drafted in 2004.
ND is a good program, but not a great program. I think he'll do well there because he'll have a chance to play a big role early on, but I'm not crazy about their development.

Thanks for the clarification on the CBA terms.

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12-12-2011, 03:21 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Trxjw
ND is a good program, but not a great program. I think he'll do well there because he'll have a chance to play a big role early on, but I'm not crazy about their development.
Pretty much my thoughts.

I am hoping joining Hockey East will help.

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12-12-2011, 03:27 PM
  #257
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The last few years ND has relied on their underclassmen. Anders Lee, a sophomore now, and TJ Tynan, also a sophomore were their leading goal and point getters respectively.

So in that sense he'll be able to play a big role if they think he deserves it but they're a fairly new program in terms of being a national powerhouse and don't have the track record that a UND (North Dakota), Minnesota, BU, BC, etc. have developing prospects.

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12-12-2011, 03:44 PM
  #258
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I hope none of our prospects ever go to BC again.

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12-12-2011, 03:56 PM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
ND is a good program, but not a great program. I think he'll do well there because he'll have a chance to play a big role early on, but I'm not crazy about their development.

Thanks for the clarification on the CBA terms.
I'm putting the boards on notice, no bashing of Notre Dame.

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12-12-2011, 05:57 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I hope none of our prospects ever go to BC again.
Kreider is leaving the BC program with a winning pedigree and a very well-rounded game. We could do far worse than to send our kids to Jerry York.

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12-12-2011, 06:12 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I hope none of our prospects ever go to BC again.


As do I, my man, as do I.

We've done pretty well with Red Berenson and Mike Eaves of late.

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12-12-2011, 06:46 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by SLU Hockey View Post


As do I, my man, as do I.

We've done pretty well with Red Berenson and Mike Eaves of late.
Michigan aside, the WCHA seems to be the way to go.

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12-12-2011, 06:48 PM
  #263
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Hey guys I attended the USA Hockey level 4 coaching certification in Bethpage this weekend. One of the talkers was Dave Starmann who does the college hockey games for CBS sports. He is also a scout for the Toronto Maple Leafs. I asked him about Chris Kreider and his eyes lit up. He raved about him. He says worse case, he is a second line left wing. He thinks the sky is the limit for him. Says he will be a star in the NHL. He thinks he can and will do it all in the NHL. He said will be 1st line, play PK and PP. He raved about his Hockey IQ. I was very impressed. Then an Islander fan asked about Anders Lee, Starmann said he is a nice player, but he is no where near Kreider. He said it is not even close Kreider is the best player in NCAA by a landslide. I was amazed that those words came from a Maple Leaf scout.

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12-12-2011, 06:57 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
I hope none of our prospects ever go to BC again.
Ehh, I think that is yet to be determined. Nathan Gerbe has turned out to be a pretty good player. I like Cam Atkinson as well. Let's all wait and see how Kreider turns out in the pros before saying Jerry York doesn't know how to develop players.

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12-12-2011, 07:54 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Ehh, I think that is yet to be determined. Nathan Gerbe has turned out to be a pretty good player. I like Cam Atkinson as well. Let's all wait and see how Kreider turns out in the pros before saying Jerry York doesn't know how to develop players.
Big fan of Atkinson. I really hope he can make it.

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12-12-2011, 08:00 PM
  #266
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Big fan of Atkinson. I really hope he can make it.
I think he will. The amount of speed/quickness that the players have coming out of BC, especially these little guys, is unreal. And none of them are soft players. Gerbe is like a whirling durbish out there who never backs down from anyone.

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12-12-2011, 08:01 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Notre Dame is a good program. Jeff Jackson is a good coach. Under the current CBA,the Rangers will have Fogarty's rights until his class graduates in 2016. He could drop out of school after his junior year(2015) to become a free agent which is the 4th June since he was drafted. Blake Wheeler played one year in the USHL and 3 years at Minnesota. Dropped out of his junior year(2008) to become a free agent. 4th June since he was drafted in 2004.
IIRC, Jackson developed Rolston and Weight at Lake State.

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12-12-2011, 08:01 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
But I'm not the one who made the initial point without any actual information to prove that line of thinking. You are. I don't know what you meant to be talking about, but I do know that what you wrote above is a distinct distortion of the truth, because here is what you initially wrote:

I actually do have info I said that already. You seem to be ignoring the fact that i did indeed clarify this already

So McIlrath, to whom you attribute maturity, coachability, and the ability to be a good teammate is "the complete opposite" of Grachev.

Ah theres the problem you ignored an entire point to focus on two words thats why you're confused. BTW not talking about them being complete opposites as players im talking about their situations being opposite as I previously explained.

No, you did not say that he has a different level. You said that one player was coachable, mature, and a good teammate, and that the other was "the complete opposite," and the one point you brought up about him above all others, in the same sentence, was that he "went against the organization." You have absolutely no proof that a language barrier or trade requests or "his" request to not play in the OHL for a second season have any bearing on a player's maturity or ability to be coached. Grachev, by the time he turned pro, spoke much better English than Anisimov did when he first made the transition, but no one has ever said that the language barrier affected Anisimov's maturity or presence in the locker room. By all accounts, Anisimov is a very mature and coachable player (the Tampa Bay celebration incident aside). Making such assumptions is akin to making assumptions about the kind of teammate Avery is because of the way he is publicly perceived, or to assume that Dubinsky's teammates don't like him because he held out and asked for more money. It's totally unfounded and baseless. None of those factors give you any reason to conclude that Grachev is somehow less coachable, less mature, or a worse teammate than McIlrath.

Again you misread what i meant by opposite I was talking about the situations they were in. It was a misleading use of words. Still you should seek clarification before flying off the handle and accusing people of things. I previously explained his trade request was not something I was even thinking about so why are you still on that?


(This section seems to be flaming me so i will ignore it)

You're certainly entitled to your opinion that McIlrath was given the A in Moose Jaw, or the C in Traverse City, "because of the fact that he is coachable, mature, and a great teammate. Those may all be true, they may not be."
Nowhere did I say this. I said this shows evidence of his, kreider's and JT's...y'know what I explained it already. You missed it so it's w/e

My opinion is that those aren't necessarily the reasons why either of those events occurred.

Same here I never said that.

My guess is that McIlrath was given the A, just like Colin Bowman, just like Quinten Howden, just like Brett Lyon, and just like Kendall McFaull was given the C, because they are the oldest players on the team (and most also happen to be among the most high profile). I'm sure the Rangers love all of McIlrath's intangibles, but I think the reason they gave him the C in Traverse City is quite simple: he's a controversial pick that a lot of fans and pundits have questioned, and the Rangers want to broadcast the perception that not only are they totally satisfied with the pick, but that they are head over heels in love with him.

This is too conspiracy theory for me but OK. Really doesnt have any bearing on the point I was actually making anyway

I also totally disagree with the notion that having a letter has turned Callahan or Girardi into greater players. They are who they are, letter or not. If they weren't, they wouldn't have gotten the letters in the first place.

Never said the letter turned them into that you should reread what I wrote b/c you definitely missed what I was trying to say.

Furthermore, how do you know that coaches haven't praised Grachev, particularly in juniors? Here is a quote from Stan Butler, the head coach of the Brampton Battalion about Grachev, after he won the OHL Rookie of the Year award.

I didn't see nearly as much praise for Grachev as I did for the aforementioned three inr egards to coachability, etc. Feel free to find every single quote that does pertain to this issue and compare who has more. Kinda runs contrary to a loose comparison which was all this was. There are obviously players who recieve more praise than others in regards to having pure skill others recieve more based on coachability and leadership. It seemed to me that guys like Cally, Kreider, McI are the latter which usually means imo that they have a chance to achieve well beyond what we think is there potential. It's a very subjective, it is imo, and it is an individual point of view and it's a waste of time to put it under such intense scrutiny. Not to mention that was an awful quote to use. All it does is foreshadow the inconsistency grachev would later display his entire tenure with the NYR which was kinda my point...you ended up reinforcing what i was saying with that quote
What is an improvement in consistency if not a sign that a player is maturing and absorbing coaching help?

[B]I wouldnt use consistency to describe any part of Grachev's NA career thus far except maybe consistently dissappointing.B]

Your entire point was that the difference between McIlrath and Grachev is that one is somehow more packed with intangibles than the other, and that this will help McIlrath overcome certain issues that Grachev won't be able to overcome. As you can see, I don't agree. I don't agree that because McIlrath received an A from his junior team in his 3rd season as a part of the roster that he is somehow more mature or coachable than Grachev. Grachev only played one year in juniors. When was he supposed to get an A? As a rookie?
No you missed my point.


Last edited by JimmyStart*: 12-12-2011 at 08:26 PM.
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12-12-2011, 11:15 PM
  #269
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Ah theres the problem you ignored an entire point to focus on two words thats why you're confused. BTW not talking about them being complete opposites as players im talking about their situations being opposite as I previously explained.
I'm not a mindreader, Jimmy. I can only go off of what you say, and what you said was that they were complete opposites in terms of maturity, coachability and being a good teammate. That's what you said, and that's what I replied to. You can't attribute phantom meanings to sentences or paragraphs and expect people to pick up on your invisible implications and inferences. I'm not a psychic. No reason to say one thing and then accuse people of not understanding something you never said.

You can use that as a response to every other "point" you made. Just replace the bit about complete opposites with [insert random "Jimmypoints"] and you're good.

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No you missed my point.
That's one way of looking at it. Another (obviously, mine) is that you never had one to begin with, and that you rarely tend to overall. It's rather peculiar. The very, very few people who may care, for some reason, can decide for themselves.


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12-13-2011, 03:29 AM
  #270
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I think CT scored again in the Canada scrimmages, not sure though, wasn't able to find a boxscore anywhere. Someone said he had a nice snipe though.

It's hilarious seeing his name slowly start popping up on people's lineup's again.

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12-13-2011, 04:56 AM
  #271
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Jesper Fasth have extended his contract with HV71 2-yrs

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12-13-2011, 05:10 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by NYR425 View Post
Hey guys I attended the USA Hockey level 4 coaching certification in Bethpage this weekend. One of the talkers was Dave Starmann who does the college hockey games for CBS sports. He is also a scout for the Toronto Maple Leafs. I asked him about Chris Kreider and his eyes lit up. He raved about him. He says worse case, he is a second line left wing. He thinks the sky is the limit for him. Says he will be a star in the NHL. He thinks he can and will do it all in the NHL. He said will be 1st line, play PK and PP. He raved about his Hockey IQ. I was very impressed. Then an Islander fan asked about Anders Lee, Starmann said he is a nice player, but he is no where near Kreider. He said it is not even close Kreider is the best player in NCAA by a landslide. I was amazed that those words came from a Maple Leaf scout.
That sounds promising, but let's hope Chris feels the same way.

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12-13-2011, 06:31 AM
  #273
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Twitter feed of ISS Head Scout

Ross MacLean on his Canadian WJC team

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I think on F. Connolly, Smith-Pelly, Stone, Howden, Schwartz, Strome, Scheifele, Jenner, Bulmer, Gallagher, Thomas, Huberdeau and Bournival
https://twitter.com/#!/rossmaclean/s...12824443740160

Quote:
McNeil, Rattie, Phillips, Hamilton on the bubble, especially if Huberdeau can't go. Of that group McNeil stood out most today.
https://twitter.com/#!/rossmaclean/s...13108175818753

Looks like Connolly concussed Howden.

Quote:
Team Canada's inter squad game Monday night produced only one goal that beat a goalie, but plenty of hits and one injury. One returning player may have knocked another out of the tournament. Or Quinton Howden will be ok and able to fill a huge roll for Canada starting Boxing Day in Edmonton. Either way Brett Connolly seems to be taking a lot of heat right now.
http://thepipelineshow.blogspot.com/...-connolly.html

If its a concussion,its Howden's 2nd concussion in 4 months. He suffered a concussion in the Panthers training camp.

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12-13-2011, 06:44 AM
  #274
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Jesper Fasth have extended his contract with HV71 2-yrs
The Rangers have to sign Fasth this June to retain his rights. The transfer agreement between the NHL and the Swedes has a 2 year deadline to sign draft picks. The Rangers could loan Fasth to his Swedish team after he signs with the Rangers. Ottawa signed Jakob Silverberg in May and then loaned him to Brynas. The Swedish team would get a transfer fee for Fasth.

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The new agreement will run through the 2011-12 season and according to the deal, the NHL will compensate Elitserien teams $225,000 for players signing with an NHL club. The compensation is up $25,000 from the previous agreement. Players can sign before June 15 and players who’ve been drafted into the NHL the same year can sign until Aug. 15.

“This agreement will generate millions for Swedish hockey,” said Peter Forsberg, vice chairman of the Swedish Ice Hockey Federation (and not that Forsberg).

Also, players under 22 who haven’t been drafted in the first round may return to the Elitserien if they can’t make the NHL club roster.
http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...ff-report.html

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12-13-2011, 06:46 AM
  #275
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This concussion epidemic has surpassed the point of ridiculous.

Are people inherently weaker now? Equipment for ****? Or is it the same as it has always been and they're just being overly cautious with these players now?

On the equipment, its practically the same technology in helmets that has been used since the 70's. Just garbage yellow stained foam on flimsy plastic.

Perhaps the NHL and every league below it should stop worrying about companies feelings, and instate a mandate on the Cascade M11 and VISORS and mouth guards.

They allowed Reebok to monopolize the jersey industry with their STUPID shaped Edge crap.

But they're worried about how many helmets CCM and Easton will sell? When their helmets are obviously not up to par for high level athletes.

Cascade M11 tested higher then any other available helmet in preventing concussions.

ALL players should be wearing them. Visors. And mouth guards. NO EXCEPTIONS.


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