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Old
12-13-2011, 12:36 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
about as weird as our PP being top 5 and us still out of a playoff spot... who'da thunk it..
Crazy isn't it? That's why I believe we need a vet #3 Dman. Stats don't lie.

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12-13-2011, 02:14 AM
  #27
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blum will be fine. he will go to th A and remember the boards aren't for advertising, they are for bailing you out of the d-zone. once he remembers that, he will be back up. Besides, does anyone really expect bouillon or josi to stay healthy for 50 more games? I don't. I am missouri in that case. show me.

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12-13-2011, 04:25 AM
  #28
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Wait, I thought he'd already proven to be far better then Franson.

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12-13-2011, 06:19 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
Wait, I thought he'd already proven to be far better then Franson.
Franson is still a guy who gets very protected minutes when he does actually get to play. It's the great thing about Blum still technically being a rookie ... we can send him back down to work on things instead of making him a permascratched player.

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Old
12-13-2011, 09:02 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Franson is still a guy who gets very protected minutes when he does actually get to play. It's the great thing about Blum still technically being a rookie ... we can send him back down to work on things instead of making him a permascratched player.
But that's not what everyone was saying this summer after getting rid of Franson. Everyone said that Blum would be an immediate upgrade over Franson, thus making Franson expendible.

Franson, FWIW, has played in 10 of the last 11, and is on pace for 14 G and 19 A, while averaging 15 min a night. It's hard to shelter a player for 15 minutes a game.

I just think it's humorous that an organization with such supposedly amazing depth at defenseman is icing a number 4/5 and number 3, a journeyman 5 at 4, and can't find anyone to play the bottom pair, despite trying about 5 different players.

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12-13-2011, 09:12 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
I'm with Seth on this one. This is the right move. Blum has to get himself back together, and he's not going to do that in a luxury suite with the occasional practice and pregame skate.

For those surprised by the move, bear in mind that this move has worked out for us in the past.
Count me in, too. Blum needs to play top minutes in all situations. As is he is not going to do much more than practice. Can't perfect your game up there. I am sure he heard what he needed to work on before his trip to Milwaukee.

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12-13-2011, 09:47 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
But that's not what everyone was saying this summer after getting rid of Franson. Everyone said that Blum would be an immediate upgrade over Franson, thus making Franson expendible.

Franson, FWIW, has played in 10 of the last 11, and is on pace for 14 G and 19 A, while averaging 15 min a night. It's hard to shelter a player for 15 minutes a game.

I just think it's humorous that an organization with such supposedly amazing depth at defenseman is icing a number 4/5 and number 3, a journeyman 5 at 4, and can't find anyone to play the bottom pair, despite trying about 5 different players.
The leafs have played 29 games. He has 3 goals, or a 8.4 goal pace. and his 4 assists give him a 11.3 pace. Just because he was scratch because he sucks does not eliminate those games.

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12-13-2011, 09:51 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
But that's not what everyone was saying this summer after getting rid of Franson. Everyone said that Blum would be an immediate upgrade over Franson, thus making Franson expendible.

Franson, FWIW, has played in 10 of the last 11, and is on pace for 14 G and 19 A, while averaging 15 min a night. It's hard to shelter a player for 15 minutes a game.

I just think it's humorous that an organization with such supposedly amazing depth at defenseman is icing a number 4/5 and number 3, a journeyman 5 at 4, and can't find anyone to play the bottom pair, despite trying about 5 different players.
Blum with his regression is still more useful than Franson. 15minutes is very sheltered time .... he's getting about 14 ES minutes a night.

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Old
12-13-2011, 10:29 AM
  #34
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Wow...this move takes some guts, but I'm happy Blum will get the top-line experience.

This tells me two things, both obvious.

1) As noted, the coaches are liking what they see in Josi.

2) It's very well known that the D is the weak spot on this team, and this pushes that thought even further. It wouldn't shock me to soon hear that Poile is pushing hard for a trade to bring in a middle pairing, vet D.

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Old
12-13-2011, 10:37 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Blum with his regression is still more useful than Franson. 15minutes is very sheltered time .... he's getting about 14 ES minutes a night.
Disagree, Blum looks worse than Franson did last year.

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12-13-2011, 11:55 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Disagree, Blum looks worse than Franson did last year.
Blum is a rookie with 50 total games spread across two seasons. Even with his sophomore slump, Blum was put into situations that Franson still isn't. Franson was, and remains, a 3rd pair d-man who gets protected minutes at ES, virtually no PK time, and some PP time .... Blum was expected to play 2nd pair minutes and perform in all special teams situations. His performance took a step back so he is getting a little developmental time back in Milwaukee.

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12-13-2011, 01:16 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
The leafs have played 29 games. He has 3 goals, or a 8.4 goal pace. and his 4 assists give him a 11.3 pace. Just because he was scratch because he sucks does not eliminate those games.
Wait, what? That's the most moronic notion I've ever heard. You're saying Crosby is on a 5.5 goal pace because the Pens have played 30 games and Crosby only has 2 goals?

When Franson has played, he's produced .5 PPG. He can't help it Burke put him in the dog house. He's coming into his own now in the new system, and he's now playing regularly.

GP G A PTS +/-
Year to date 14 3 4 7 -1
On Pace 67 14 19 33 -1
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=5199


Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Blum with his regression is still more useful than Franson. 15minutes is very sheltered time .... he's getting about 14 ES minutes a night.
We can go back and forth on whether 15 is sheltered or not. On the road, how can you really shelter a player. Regardless, 15 minutes is almost what Blum has been playing.


The point of my post was, and I'm not saying you're one of these people, but seems to me lots of people were saying the Blum had already replaced Franson, and that Blum was an immediate upgrade to Franson (maybe one day he will be, but not now). In fact, that was the most popular argument for defending the Franson trade, you remember?

......"that Franson was easily replaceable by the youngsters, and Blum had already had passed him."


Now Blum is in the AHL, Ekholm is in Europe, Laakso is god knows where.

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Old
12-13-2011, 01:22 PM
  #38
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Saying Blum is better than Franson over the summer wasn't exactly a crazy thing to say. Blum was MUCH better than Franson last season, and at the time of those comments that's all we had to go on. Regardless, I don't think Franson would solve any of our defensive problems, and going forward I would still rather have Blum than Franson.

Offense isn't our concern right now. Bringing up Franson's offensive numbers is fine, but his offense would not address our immediate concern unless he is scoring at a Bobby Orr pace. Then, we wouldn't have to worry so much with defense because we would have a defenseman scoring over a PPG

Franson, with his 7 points in 14 games, is still a minus 1. His shooting percentage is entirely too high to maintain, so if he is able to continue seeing ice time on the Leafs his production will drop. He is still seeing a lot of PP time and virtually no short handed time. Our PP doesn't need a shot in the arm right now. He has the lowest ES TOI of any defenseman on Toronto aside from Aulie, who has played two games. His Corsi relative to quality of competition is second lowest on the team (for those unfamiliar with Corsi, it looks at shots a player's team directs towards the net versus shots directed towards the team's own net while the player is on the ice. Ex: if while I'm on the ice my team gets three shots and the other team gets four I have a -1 Corsi rating for that shift). Not a good indicator of his ability to produce against higher quality players. That still tells me for Franson to be effective he needs to be on the ice against lower quality talent and on the PP (or exactly how he was utilized last year).

Franson is still protected. He isn't a terrible player, but give me Blum over Franson. Maybe not **right now** since Blum is in Milwaukee, but over time I think we kept the right player.

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Old
12-13-2011, 01:41 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
Wait, what? That's the most moronic notion I've ever heard. You're saying Crosby is on a 5.5 goal pace because the Pens have played 30 games and Crosby only has 2 goals?


GP G A PTS +/-
Year to date 14 3 4 7 -1
On Pace 67 14 19 33 -1
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=5199


.
how does 14 out of 29 equal 67/82? It doesn't. using his "pace" he is on target to play 40 games. My point is, franson still stinks on a crappy defensive unit. plays zero pk, soft as a marshmellow, and can't skate. He does some nice things on the PP, but I do not think it outweighs what he lacks defensively.

and yes, right now Crosby is on pace to score fewer than 10 goals. That is correct.

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12-13-2011, 02:09 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
Wait, what? That's the most moronic notion I've ever heard. You're saying Crosby is on a 5.5 goal pace because the Pens have played 30 games and Crosby only has 2 goals?

When Franson has played, he's produced .5 PPG. He can't help it Burke put him in the dog house. He's coming into his own now in the new system, and he's now playing regularly.

GP G A PTS +/-
Year to date 14 3 4 7 -1
On Pace 67 14 19 33 -1
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=5199




We can go back and forth on whether 15 is sheltered or not. On the road, how can you really shelter a player. Regardless, 15 minutes is almost what Blum has been playing.


The point of my post was, and I'm not saying you're one of these people, but seems to me lots of people were saying the Blum had already replaced Franson, and that Blum was an immediate upgrade to Franson (maybe one day he will be, but not now). In fact, that was the most popular argument for defending the Franson trade, you remember?

......"that Franson was easily replaceable by the youngsters, and Blum had already had passed him."


Now Blum is in the AHL, Ekholm is in Europe, Laakso is god knows where.
Blum did pass Franson on the depth chart last year. He took a step back in his development and needs a little time in Milwaukee to get back on track this season, but with both of them on the club, and Franson having more NHL experience, Blum passed Franson which led to Franson becoming portable over the summer. Blum is playing almost as much ES time as Franson is total (Franson 14:02 ES, 0:06 PK, 1:30 PP .... Blum 14:51 ES, 1:46 PK, 1:19 PP). We have the luxury of six healthy defenders right now so we can afford to send Blum down to fix his sophomore slump and logging top pair minutes in the AHL does him more good right now than 3rd pair / healthy scratch time in Nashville. In retrospect, Franson probably would have benefited from a trip to Milwaukee during his two full seasons as a Pred.

If Franson wasn't traded, he'd still be a 5-7 blueliner on our roster. He is what he is .. a 3rd pair guy with a decent shot from the point who can play a little bit of PP time but lacks the mobility to perform on the PK or log huge ES minutes. He has size but depends on his reach, not using his body. His lack of footspeed leaves him vulnerable and if a player chips the puck around him, Franson isn't catching up to make the play.

Josi is now healthy and on the big club where he was projected to start the season before his last injury. Blum is a quick call away and I don't expect him to spend more than 2-4 weeks on the Ads roster. Ellis is a late season call up at the earliest as he adjusts to the pro game. I haven't seen Aaronson to evaluate his game yet. I get that opportunity the first week of Feb.

Franson isn't the second coming of Orr .... SOB isn't the next Stevens. Unfortunately, guys like Beauchemin, Robidas, and Burns aren't likely to get moved. Maybe Carolina decides to blow up their roster early and Allen or Gleason become available. Eaton is still hanging around the league as a vet presence but I don't see him fixing our 2nd pair issues. Hamonic maybe? Tyutin would be a good addition. Maybe Peckham from Edmonton? Sutton is just too much of a suspension magnet right now.

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Old
12-13-2011, 02:38 PM
  #41
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Sending Blum down is the right move. Can't have a kid like that sitting in the press box when he could be logging 20+ minutes in the AHL.

The real question is, who will they bring up for a long road trip or should one of the remaining 6 get hurt? I think Blum needs to be the #1 guy in MKE for that to happen. When guys like Blum get sent down, rarely do they bounce right back and become the top AHL D. Wouldn't surprise me if they promote Sloan or Laakso. I think they could do this, even at the risk of losing them on re-entry waivers, because no one will pick them up.

Re: Ellis. The reports from MKE are not very good on him right now. He is mediocre on the PP and his defense leaves a lot to be desired.

Re: Josi. I think his position is far from secure. Yes, he had a nice slapper resulting in a goal the other night, but he was also primarily responsible for 2 goals against too. In Trotz' "defense first" system, his defensive abilities have a ways to go IMO.

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12-13-2011, 03:33 PM
  #42
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I feel for Blum. I too thought after sitting a few games, he might be back in. How many games before he has to clear waivers before he is send down/comes up? Or is it years played? Not clear on this?

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12-13-2011, 03:39 PM
  #43
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I feel for Blum. I too thought after sitting a few games, he might be back in. How many games before he has to clear waivers before he is send down/comes up? Or is it years played? Not clear on this?
It's both .... and he's nowhere near either.

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12-13-2011, 04:04 PM
  #44
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I think he will spend a few weeks down on the farm and will be up to replace hillen. That is unless Poile makes a trade and we send hillen down/waive him. At that point, it wouldn't surprise me to see Josi and Blum yo-yo depending on who is performing.

i said a few weeks ago, it isn't Blum's skillset, or even decision making that was going to get him sent down. It was the desperation factor to his game. the want to go and dig pucks out of the corners. It is missing in his game and I thought he was too comfortable. Look at hillen. He was comfortable until his clone bouillon came back. Hillen picked up his play. Fear of losing your job will make you perform.

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12-13-2011, 04:53 PM
  #45
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I think he will spend a few weeks down on the farm and will be up to replace hillen. That is unless Poile makes a trade and we send hillen down/waive him. At that point, it wouldn't surprise me to see Josi and Blum yo-yo depending on who is performing.

i said a few weeks ago, it isn't Blum's skillset, or even decision making that was going to get him sent down. It was the desperation factor to his game. the want to go and dig pucks out of the corners. It is missing in his game and I thought he was too comfortable. Look at hillen. He was comfortable until his clone bouillon came back. Hillen picked up his play. Fear of losing your job will make you perform.
Based on what I see from Blum/Laakso/Josi and the reports on Ellis and Sloan, I don't see them waiving Hillen. He is like their utility infielder defenseman. He can play 20+ minutes, can play on the PK, and can play on the right side (although he is a lefty) now that Bouillon is back. He can also play PP in a pinch, as he did in NY.

Plus, if you believe everything Trotz has said about him recently, they seem to like and trust him. At $650k he is too valuable to risk losing on waivers. They would put him on the bench as a 7th before doing that.

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Old
12-13-2011, 10:01 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Blum with his regression is still more useful than Franson. 15minutes is very sheltered time .... he's getting about 14 ES minutes a night.
he's basically our 3rd RH dman so yeah...

but he's been more physical, decent defense and his wrist shot is just insane

pretty much consensus that we like him here in toronto

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12-17-2011, 02:31 AM
  #47
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short audio clip of Blum talking about him being sent down

http://admiralsroundtable.com/2011/1...n-ads-2-0-win/

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12-17-2011, 03:36 AM
  #48
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Blum will be back Monday I bet

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12-17-2011, 03:40 AM
  #49
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Blum should be hungrier than ever come Monday, and ready to stick among the top 4 longterm.

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12-17-2011, 03:48 AM
  #50
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Blum will be back Monday I bet
Why Monday?

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