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The Management thread 2.0 ( All GM/Coaching discussion here)

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Old
12-10-2011, 10:09 AM
  #51
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You ever hear of the expression splitting hairs? We could have both PK and RM right now. And Gomer is not doing anything at all. Nothing.

ALARM CLOCK! wake up. The trade was a ****ing disaster. I'm moving on, so should you. But don't defend the ****ing thing. It's over dude. The story is over.
Don't get me wrong, I hate that trade. But some fans fail to aknowledge that we were desperate for help at center, I think BG was ready to live with him having a cap hit about 2-2.5 mil above his value if he generated offense and got the puck to AK, Gio, Cammy and co.

Personally I still would not have made the trade...but bad deals usually happen when a GM is desperate. That's why I hope Molson isn't holding a gun to Gauthier's head.

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12-10-2011, 11:25 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Don't get me wrong, I hate that trade. But some fans fail to aknowledge that we were desperate for help at center, I think BG was ready to live with him having a cap hit about 2-2.5 mil above his value if he generated offense and got the puck to AK, Gio, Cammy and co.

Personally I still would not have made the trade...but bad deals usually happen when a GM is desperate. That's why I hope Molson isn't holding a gun to Gauthier's head.
We were not desperate for a center. We let Koivu go. Koivu has more heart and soul than Gomez. Is a better hockey player and at a cheaper cap hit.

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12-10-2011, 11:37 AM
  #53
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We were not desperate for a center. We let Koivu go. Koivu has more heart and soul than Gomez. Is a better hockey player and at a cheaper cap hit.
In before "Koivu wanted to leave". Koivu would have stayed if we asked him to. One of the worst non-signings in team history, if not the worst.

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12-10-2011, 11:37 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
We were not desperate for a center. We let Koivu go. Koivu has more heart and soul than Gomez. Is a better hockey player and at a cheaper cap hit.
The old #11 puts the new #11 to shame.

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12-10-2011, 11:38 AM
  #55
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We were not desperate for a center. We let Koivu go. Koivu has more heart and soul than Gomez. Is a better hockey player and at a cheaper cap hit.
Well, I understand how the move happened. I did not like it at the time and hated it, but I could see Gainey's desperation.

That was such a terrible year plus Gainey had been chasing a #1 centre for years, flying to Sweden to beg Sundin literally...he had just about acquired Lecavalier twice, one time was at the draft a couple of days before getting Gomez. He was desperate and did not want to go back with the same two centres - for Lecavalier he was giving up Plekanec, remember - so he basically just acquired whichever centre was out there.

But obviously he did choose Gomez over Koivu, which was a bad decision even before factoring in McDonagh, and which was fairly obvious as being a bad decision at the time given their similar production levels. In fact, Gainey was a big-time bidder on Gomez as a UFA, too.

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12-10-2011, 11:44 AM
  #56
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Well, I understand how the move happened. I did not like it at the time and hated it, but I could see Gainey's desperation.

That was such a terrible year plus Gainey had been chasing a #1 centre for years, flying to Sweden to beg Sundin literally...he had just about acquired Lecavalier twice, one time was at the draft a couple of days before getting Gomez. He was desperate and did not want to go back with the same two centres - for Lecavalier he was giving up Plekanec, remember - so he basically just acquired whichever centre was out there.

But obviously he did choose Gomez over Koivu, which was a bad decision even before factoring in McDonagh, and which was fairly obvious as being a bad decision at the time given their similar production levels. In fact, Gainey was a big-time bidder on Gomez as a UFA, too.
We can say whatever we want about Bettman but he ****ing saved our ***** veto-ing that trade.

Plekanec, Price, Subban and a 1st were the things rumored in the deal, were they not?

Gainey lost it during the centennial year. He's still with the team and his clueless replacement is just as lost.

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Old
12-10-2011, 11:45 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by smon View Post
Well, I understand how the move happened. I did not like it at the time and hated it, but I could see Gainey's desperation.

That was such a terrible year plus Gainey had been chasing a #1 centre for years, flying to Sweden to beg Sundin literally...he had just about acquired Lecavalier twice, one time was at the draft a couple of days before getting Gomez. He was desperate and did not want to go back with the same two centres - for Lecavalier he was giving up Plekanec, remember - so he basically just acquired whichever centre was out there.

But obviously he did choose Gomez over Koivu, which was a bad decision even before factoring in McDonagh, and which was fairly obvious as being a bad decision at the time given their similar production levels. In fact, Gainey was a big-time bidder on Gomez as a UFA, too.
Was going to give up Plekanec, Subban and a first + more(higgins iirc) for Lecavalier. Gainey is a horrible judge of talent.

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12-10-2011, 12:12 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
Was going to give up Plekanec, Subban and a first + more(higgins iirc) for Lecavalier. Gainey is a horrible judge of talent.
Initial almost-done deal was Plekanec, Higgins, Gorges for Lecavalier.
Later completed deal, but for Bettman, was confirmed by the Hockey News to be Plekanec, Price, and unknown prospect rumoured to be Subban for Lecavalier.

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Old
12-11-2011, 07:48 PM
  #59
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In all fairness, McDo was indeed behind Subban AS FAR AS WHERE THEY WERE AT THAT TIME. Not sure how it's relevant though based on the fact that some prospects skyrock their development while some others take a longer time. But for the idea of just discussing where they were at, Subban showed continually some interesting improvement and had really great World Juniors. The World Junior McDo went to, well we have to agree he was somewhat dissapointing. And I also have to say that Subban never regressed in any years he's played before the Pro. While McDonagh had a really subpar year in his 2nd year in Wisconsin. Though at that time, I had put it on the Wisconsin system, added to just a difficult sophomore year. But since then, McDo showed tons of improvement from his junior year and beyond.

Yet, I have no idea why the comparison. Totally different player. Of course McDo won't do what PK does, but I can tell you that if we would have a choice, PK would not be in the last minute protecting a lead. While McDo will be the kind of player. Mind you, the Rangers don't have a choice either.....but it's just a prediction that even with the Best top 6 ever....McDo will end up a top 2. And if he starts producing as well, well it doesn't matter where they were 2 or 3 years ago, McDo will end up a much complete player. The gap might not be huge....but especially in a defensive system like the Martin one....don't you all think McDonagh wouldn't be his type of d-men compared to PK?
PK has more upside, his raw skill and speed just make him too good to pass up in this comparison but as somebody else mentioned in this thread, it's really a question of whether or not he will meet that potential. He could be a fantastic all around blueliner or he could turn into Al Iafrate.

Iafrate had it all, skating, shot, physical... but he never put it together. When I see PK, I see flashes of brilliance. He could be incredible but other times he makes boneheaded plays that just shouldn't happen at the NHL level. I'm more forgiving of him because he's still very, very young but man some of those plays are just really bad. My money is on him being a great blueliner but some of the blunders he makes keep me cautious about this.

As for McD, based on what I've seen of him he's going to be rock solid defensively. Totally different player than PK. Not as dynamic or flashy, will probably never be able to do the kind of things that PK can on the ice but I see him as more of a sure thing to fulfill the potential that he does have. I think he's going to be a great blueliner for a long, long time.

And I completely agree with you on who to put on the ice in the last minute of play while protecting a lead. McD all the way. On the flipside though, if I'm down a goal, you can butt that if I had to choose between them, McD would be the one collecting splinters on the bench.

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Old
12-11-2011, 07:50 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
Was going to give up Plekanec, Subban and a first + more(higgins iirc) for Lecavalier. Gainey is a horrible judge of talent.
When was this? I've heard people say this a few times. Was this ever confirmed or is it just grease for the rumour mill?

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12-11-2011, 07:53 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
Was going to give up Plekanec, Subban and a first + more(higgins iirc) for Lecavalier. Gainey is a horrible judge of talent.
He also went after briere. Kinda sealed the deal for me there. Offered him ridiculous money.

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Old
12-11-2011, 07:55 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
When was this? I've heard people say this a few times. Was this ever confirmed or is it just grease for the rumour mill?
Just rumors. Other rumors was that it was Plekanec, Higgins and Gorges for Lecavalier. It would have allowed us to keep McDonagh and Subban.

Every rumor has a different story. But the one I mentioned is the one which the GM of tampa at the time said was offered.

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Old
12-12-2011, 06:45 PM
  #63
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And now, there's a NEW possible taker for JM should he be canned: Los Angeles!

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Old
12-13-2011, 11:09 AM
  #64
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Sadly, this management makes the team so soft and emotionless. I used to be sad when I was to going to miss any games. Now, if I miss 2 or 3 in a row, I'm like meh. I don't think they deserve to be cheered for and until changes are made, I won't be caring all that much.

Call me anything want from weather fan to actually not a real fan, but I know I am a fan, and I really hate seeing the Habs like that, and a team with that much history should not be acting like they are.

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12-13-2011, 11:15 AM
  #65
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Sadly, this management makes the team so soft and emotionless. I used to be sad when I was to going to miss any games. Now, if I miss 2 or 3 in a row, I'm like meh. I don't think they deserve to be cheered for and until changes are made, I won't be caring all that much.

Call me anything want from weather fan to actually not a real fan, but I know I am a fan, and I really hate seeing the Habs like that, and a team with that much history should not be acting like they are.
I believe you are probably a REAl fan, that just cannot put up with this incompetent management group, I stopped watching a few years back, these two clowns Gauthier and Martin are a total embarrassment to this franchise

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12-13-2011, 12:44 PM
  #66
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For anybody that thinks the Habs wouldn't send Gomez down if they could find an upgrade...

http://spectorshockey.net/wordpress/...h-july-2-2011/

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12-13-2011, 12:51 PM
  #67
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For anybody that thinks the Habs wouldn't send Gomez down if they could find an upgrade...

http://spectorshockey.net/wordpress/...h-july-2-2011/
OMG spector, we weren't really players for Richards, get over it.

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12-13-2011, 12:52 PM
  #68
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OMG spector, we weren't really players for Richards, get over it.
Yes, it was well known that the Habs made him an offer.

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12-13-2011, 12:54 PM
  #69
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OMG spector, we weren't really players for Richards, get over it.
You seem to be the one in denial.

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12-13-2011, 12:56 PM
  #70
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The old #11 puts the new #11 to shame.
Bob Gainey's greatest failures sinc coming back to the Habs

1. Trading for Gomez, imagine how much better we would be with McDo and Higgs
2. Letting ALL those assets go at the trade deadline for NOTHING. (Koivu, Komo.etc) ... talk about lousy asset management!
3. Hiring the man he "trusts the most" ... PG and sidekick JM.... dinasours STILL rule!

And this is the man "advising" Mr. Molson on his next moves.

Bob, I cheered for you as a player, you've done a admirable job with the orginization from where you took it over to recently, but it's time to step aside for a younger generation that can infuse some energy.

Thank you...

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12-13-2011, 12:57 PM
  #71
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habsjunkie2, McKenzie and Dreger on television(july 1st , 2011) said explicitly that the habs were among the teams to make an offer.

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12-13-2011, 01:03 PM
  #72
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habsjunkie2, McKenzie and Dreger on television(july 1st , 2011) said explicitly that the habs were among the teams to make an offer.
That's a good thing. Quite obviously if the Habs were to sign him Gomez would have been buried. So that Molson authorized that sort of move bodes well for this offseason to clear cap room.

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12-13-2011, 01:16 PM
  #73
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http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=939525&page=11

Here's the link. Coldplay the poster confirms that Dreger said the habs were in on Richards. There are more sources on previous page which say the same thing.

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Old
12-13-2011, 01:20 PM
  #74
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Not saying they weren't in on Richards but the fact about Gomez doesn't mean anything. No where does it say they would send him down to Hamilton, remember there was also a deal that the Habs traded Gomez to the Islanders so maybe that's why they wanted to be in on Richards

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12-13-2011, 01:35 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
Bob Gainey's greatest failures sinc coming back to the Habs

1. Trading for Gomez, imagine how much better we would be with McDo and Higgs
2. Letting ALL those assets go at the trade deadline for NOTHING. (Koivu, Komo.etc) ... talk about lousy asset management!
3. Hiring the man he "trusts the most" ... PG and sidekick JM.... dinasours STILL rule!

And this is the man "advising" Mr. Molson on his next moves.

Bob, I cheered for you as a player, you've done a admirable job with the orginization from where you took it over to recently, but it's time to step aside for a younger generation that can infuse some energy.

Thank you...
Well said, all very true, I remember Bob Gainey in Peterboro and his trusted friend Doug Jarvis, both played for the Petes, then the Canadiens, coached in Minneapolis, Dallas and Montreal, these two were together for a few decades, as well as Guy Carbonneau, another trusted ally of Gainey.
It's beyond me how he hooked up with these two clowns, Gauthier and Martin, they're already tarnishing his legacy.

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