HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Jagr

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-12-2011, 02:41 PM
  #76
Madik77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
For me, trading Jagr would only be viable in the same scenario as trading Forsberg: Flyers out of contention and Jagr approves Holmgren's request to trade him. On the latter, the appropriate approach would be along the lines of: "Jaromir, things have gone horribly wrong this season, and I'm sure you're as upset as the rest of us about how it unravelled. I've been approached by a couple of teams about landing you for the playoffs, and I want to get your feedback. I am very happy to keep you here in Philadelphia and I'm not at all going to pressure you to waive your no-trade clause. If you are interested in giving yourself a chance to play in the playoffs, though, I'll return their calls and we can make this work for both of us. The teams who have asked about you are: ________, ________ and _________. Please let me know what you think."
Exactly this. Couldnt agree more.

Madik77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 05:27 PM
  #77
tuckrr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,597
vCash: 500
Worst proposal.


Last edited by SnS: 12-13-2011 at 03:15 PM. Reason: Edit.
tuckrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-12-2011, 05:34 PM
  #78
WeekendAtBernies
Registered User
 
WeekendAtBernies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,716
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
Worst proposal.
Why do you always show up to threads like 3 days late and say something dumb like "Worst proposal"?!?

Are you that insecure that you need to put others down like this?!? Or do you just think of yourself as an internet tough guy?

The guy already took 3 days worth of crap for it, I doubt he needs to hear your uninformed opinion about the subject.

I mean seriously, is there a point to your re-hashing a 3 day old trade idea thread just so that you can flame someone?!?

I disagree w/ his proposal too, but have some freaking class about it. We're all flyers fans here and there's absolutely no reason to disrespect the guy like this.

If you don't have anything productive (ie. reasons why the trade isn't a good idea, tweaks you'd make to the trade, a different player you'd trade instead of Jagr, etc.) to add to the thread, then just stay out of it. Your post is a blatant flame and a violation of the hfboards rules.


Last edited by SnS: 12-13-2011 at 03:16 PM.
WeekendAtBernies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 09:42 AM
  #79
turkinaa
Registered User
 
turkinaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 915
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
Worst proposal.
Yes because waiving him to gauge interest is a far better move.

Be classy when dealing with highly talented players and be honest with them.


Last edited by SnS: 12-13-2011 at 03:16 PM.
turkinaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 10:52 AM
  #80
Huddy*
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bloomfield Hills, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 2,545
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Huddy*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I think there could be a bidding war for Jagr. He is playing at an elite level and lets say its between the hawks and Red Wings, he could potentially sway the balance of the division and confrence.
A trade war for Jagr doesnt include prospects and current players such as Brenden Smith and Nick Leddy. Jagr upside compared to them is .01%

Sure Jagr is still a good player and can easily be on anyones top six, but by no means are the RW and Hawks stupid enough to let Smith (Wings best prospect/ next lidstrom) and Leddy (hawks future #1 d man) go for Jagr...The proposal itself is just asinine


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
You only have value if you are playing hockey.

Jagr may only be playing hockey for another 6 months...hopefully

A prospect such as brendan smith could potentially be a flyer for 10 years.

to me thats a hell of a lot of upside.
Ya and a prospect like B. Smith wont be let go by Ken Holland for a 1 year max rental in Jagr. Wings have much much more class than that and they have the scouting to not only keep Smith for the future, but to replace our current skilled forwards. Adding a guy like Jagr could be useful for the Wings but not that useful in letting go Brenden Smith. The Wings have a plethora of young forwards itching to make a name for themselves, so Jagr can stay in Philly if the asking price is B. Smith...

The Wings (given their past trading historty) could consider this trade tho:

To Philly: Dan Cleary / Jiri Hudler / 4-7th rd
To Detroit: Jagr

That is something the Wings would consider ***if*** Jagr was guarenteed to play after this year and if he were to sign a 1-3 yr deal with the Wings...Thats upside for both teams as Cleary/Hudler would be a good addition to your squad....

Dont get me wrong, I like where your head is at when it comes to making your team better but trading Jagr right now for one of the players you mentioned won't happen. Besides if it did, David Stern would come in and nix the deal


Last edited by Huddy*: 12-13-2011 at 11:03 AM.
Huddy* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 11:10 AM
  #81
Broad Street Elite
Registered User
 
Broad Street Elite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer Whale View Post

To Philly: Dan Cleary / Jiri Hudler / 4-7th rd
To Detroit: Jagr

That is something the Wings would consider ***if*** Jagr was guarenteed to play after this year and if he were to sign a 1-3 yr deal with the Wings...Thats upside for both teams as Cleary/Hudler would be a good addition to your squad....
OK, so we can confirm that Red Wings fans are NOt interested in dealing for Jagr lol. If the Flyers were moving Jagr, they would have to get back some sort of futures... established third line players and a late pick just don't come close to cutting it. At worst, he's worth a late first rounder.

Broad Street Elite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 11:23 AM
  #82
Huddy*
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bloomfield Hills, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 2,545
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Huddy*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
OK, so we can confirm that Red Wings fans are NOt interested in dealing for Jagr lol. If the Flyers were moving Jagr, they would have to get back some sort of futures... established third line players and a late pick just don't come close to cutting it. At worst, he's worth a late first rounder.
hes 37...if the red wings want any part of jagr, a first rd pick is also not an option

Quotes by Ken Holland

Quote:
"We made a conscious decision to carry a 23-man roster and spend a limit close to the cap, where we would have $3 to $6 Million in cap space to play with’’ Holland said. “We’re trying to win now, (but) we’re trying to hang onto our assets — our picks and our young players. We’re trying to build towards 2013, ’14, ’15, so that we don’t have to go into a major rebuild somewhere along the line. We want to try to be positioned to be a playoff team next year and the year after, etc. The only way you can do that in a cap world is to draft, to develop. You got to have young people playing into your system.’’
The Red Wings have good depth up front with 14 forwards when everyone is healthy, forcing them to scratch two third-/fourth-line grinders every game.
Quote:
I'm not looking to trade. I was just at the general managers' meetings, and there is no trade talk around the league.

"I think we've got lots of good things going on. If we can just get a few more good things going on, I think we can put a run together."

Huddy* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 12:00 PM
  #83
WeekendAtBernies
Registered User
 
WeekendAtBernies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,716
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer Whale View Post
A trade war for Jagr doesnt include prospects and current players such as Brenden Smith and Nick Leddy. Jagr upside compared to them is .01%

Sure Jagr is still a good player and can easily be on anyones top six, but by no means are the RW and Hawks stupid enough to let Smith (Wings best prospect/ next lidstrom) and Leddy (hawks future #1 d man) go for Jagr...The proposal itself is just asinine

The Wings (given their past trading historty) could consider this trade tho:

To Philly: Dan Cleary / Jiri Hudler / 4-7th rd
To Detroit: Jagr

That is something the Wings would consider ***if*** Jagr was guarenteed to play after this year and if he were to sign a 1-3 yr deal with the Wings...Thats upside for both teams as Cleary/Hudler would be a good addition to your squad....

Dont get me wrong, I like where your head is at when it comes to making your team better but trading Jagr right now for one of the players you mentioned won't happen. Besides if it did, David Stern would come in and nix the deal
Please, don't patronize us with a proposal this bad. Hudler and Cleary would be good additions to our squad? Really?!? We have more depth than you guys do:

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
JVR-Schenn-Briere
Read-Couturier-Simmonds

Hmm, that's odd... even without Jagr, I don't see any room for Hudler or Cleary in our top 9 next year.

I agree that the BRENDAN Smith (you'd think a real Detroit fan could at least spell the "next Lidstrom's" name correctly) proposal was a little ridiculous, but your counter offer is even worse. Jaromir Jagr would be arguably your best winger and he would definitely be playing on your #1 line. Franzen-Datsyuk-Jagr wow that's some scary stuff right there.

If you don't like the original proposal of Smith for Jagr, that's fine... just say that. You don't need to come in here and post an equally bad proposal in the Red Wings favor.

Jagr isn't being moved anyway.

WeekendAtBernies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 12:43 PM
  #84
Xegiie
Registered User
 
Xegiie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Czech republic
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 1,941
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer Whale View Post
A trade war for Jagr doesnt include prospects and current players such as Brenden Smith and Nick Leddy. Jagr upside compared to them is .01%

Sure Jagr is still a good player and can easily be on anyones top six, but by no means are the RW and Hawks stupid enough to let Smith (Wings best prospect/ next lidstrom) and Leddy (hawks future #1 d man) go for Jagr...The proposal itself is just asinine




Ya and a prospect like B. Smith wont be let go by Ken Holland for a 1 year max rental in Jagr. Wings have much much more class than that and they have the scouting to not only keep Smith for the future, but to replace our current skilled forwards. Adding a guy like Jagr could be useful for the Wings but not that useful in letting go Brenden Smith. The Wings have a plethora of young forwards itching to make a name for themselves, so Jagr can stay in Philly if the asking price is B. Smith...

The Wings (given their past trading historty) could consider this trade tho:

To Philly: Dan Cleary / Jiri Hudler / 4-7th rd
To Detroit: Jagr

That is something the Wings would consider ***if*** Jagr was guarenteed to play after this year and if he were to sign a 1-3 yr deal with the Wings...Thats upside for both teams as Cleary/Hudler would be a good addition to your squad....

Dont get me wrong, I like where your head is at when it comes to making your team better but trading Jagr right now for one of the players you mentioned won't happen. Besides if it did, David Stern would come in and nix the deal

well after all you are right lets boot everyone who is 25 year or more older and lets trade them for 20 so that in 10-15 years can fight for stanley cup...

OR lets fight this year??... seriously this whole topic seems like one of biggest jokes ever to me, no offence

Xegiie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 03:13 PM
  #85
Huddy*
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bloomfield Hills, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 2,545
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Huddy*
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
Please, don't patronize us with a proposal this bad. Hudler and Cleary would be good additions to our squad? Really?!? We have more depth than you guys do:

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
JVR-Schenn-Briere
Read-Couturier-Simmonds

Hmm, that's odd... even without Jagr, I don't see any room for Hudler or Cleary in our top 9 next year.

I agree that the BRENDAN Smith (you'd think a real Detroit fan could at least spell the "next Lidstrom's" name correctly) proposal was a little ridiculous, but your counter offer is even worse. Jaromir Jagr would be arguably your best winger and he would definitely be playing on your #1 line. Franzen-Datsyuk-Jagr wow that's some scary stuff right there.

If you don't like the original proposal of Smith for Jagr, that's fine... just say that. You don't need to come in here and post an equally bad proposal in the Red Wings favor.

Jagr isn't being moved anyway.
Excuse me if I may..I was typing fast. Majority of people on here type fast and a typo of a name is allowed. Sorry if I didn't get an A+ in English like you. Thanks for correcting me and letting me know I spelled Lidstrom wrong..You spelled it wrong too, its "Lidström" with the two dots over the "O."

As for my "counter" LOL is was HYPOTHETICAL as the Wings would rather package players vs give one of their best prospects away for Jagr. Not saying it HAS to be Cleary and Hudler. No wonder you attacked my post and treated me like I am Ken Holland, please bud...The point of the post was to give a hint to YOUR OP that a player of Smiths/Leddys caliber wont be going to Philly in exchange for Jagr..

As for your talent? Did I compare Detroit's to Philly's? Did I come in and explode on the thought of Detroit being better than Philly? I think not but since you went there, I'll remind you of a few things..
1. 20+ straight years in the playoffs,
2. four cups since 96'
3. a sweep of philly in the finals ****
3. One of the best, if not the bestscouting development teams ever assembled in ALL of sports.
4. Our talent is hidden in the AHL, as the Wings let their players develop. No shame in this.

So before you go all IN and assume your talent is better (which could be the case) you should take a look at some of our prospects who will be in the lineup for the Wings within 1-2 years...Tatar, Nyquist, Mursak, Anderson, Smith, I.Can.Keep.Going.......but I'll stop bc you just attempted to tell a Wings fan that Philly has more depth than Detroit when Detroit sits 1-2 players/ night who could start ANYWHERE in the league...Red Wings talent/depth is just as comparable to Phillys. Yes, Philly has depth. They have talent. But to say that about Detroit shows me that your knowledge of others teams is not as good as you think it is, and to provide an answer to my "proposal" like you did is a shame given your knowledge of some players...enjoy the season and good luck w Jags and you are right he isnt going anywhere. Ill hope to see him next year in a Wings uni, as he will become another Selanne, but one that switches teams yearly until he retires..


Last edited by Huddy*: 12-13-2011 at 03:19 PM.
Huddy* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 03:17 PM
  #86
SnS
Mod Supervisor
 
SnS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 12,406
vCash: 500
Guys, keep the cool.


Also, just think what Forsberg netted us back when we moved him to the Predators...

__________________
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/nemesis15/SnS-Sig.gif

Props to Nemesis for the signature and avatar.
SnS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 03:33 PM
  #87
livewell68
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,129
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
Guys, keep the cool.


Also, just think what Forsberg netted us back when we moved him to the Predators...
We should all keep our cool yes but to add a comment in regards to Forsberg, Jagr is 39 now, will be 40 by season's end, Forsberg was 32-33 if I'm not mistaken when he played for the Flyers.

Even Jagr is having a great year, his years as an elite player seemed numbered now. At the time, the notion was that Forsberg if he could remain healthy could still dominate and so Nashville took a gamble.

I don't see many teams having that much interest in Jagr where they are willing to give up high draft picks or prospects for him.

livewell68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 03:46 PM
  #88
SnS
Mod Supervisor
 
SnS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 12,406
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
We should all keep our cool yes but to add a comment in regards to Forsberg, Jagr is 39 now, will be 40 by season's end, Forsberg was 32-33 if I'm not mistaken when he played for the Flyers.

Even Jagr is having a great year, his years as an elite player seemed numbered now. At the time, the notion was that Forsberg if he could remain healthy could still dominate and so Nashville took a gamble.

I don't see many teams having that much interest in Jagr where they are willing to give up high draft picks or prospects for him.
Oh, I'm not saying we'll get what we did for Forsberg...


But Cleary, Hudler (salary dump) and a pick for someone who could very well be leading our team in points?

The point in dealing Jagr would be to get something to build on. Not an aging forward, cap dump and a 4th-7th round draft pick...

SnS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 03:59 PM
  #89
WeekendAtBernies
Registered User
 
WeekendAtBernies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,716
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer Whale View Post
Excuse me if I may..I was typing fast. Majority of people on here type fast and a typo of a name is allowed. Sorry if I didn't get an A+ in English like you. Thanks for correcting me and letting me know I spelled Lidstrom wrong..You spelled it wrong too, its "Lidström" with the two dots over the "O."

As for my "counter" LOL is was HYPOTHETICAL as the Wings would rather package players vs give one of their best prospects away for Jagr. Not saying it HAS to be Cleary and Hudler. No wonder you attacked my post and treated me like I am Ken Holland, please bud...The point of the post was to give a hint to YOUR OP that a player of Smiths/Leddys caliber wont be going to Philly in exchange for Jagr..

As for your talent? Did I compare Detroit's to Philly's? Did I come in and explode on the thought of Detroit being better than Philly? I think not but since you went there, I'll remind you of a few things..
1. 20+ straight years in the playoffs,
2. four cups since 96'
3. a sweep of philly in the finals ****
3. One of the best, if not the bestscouting development teams ever assembled in ALL of sports.
4. Our talent is hidden in the AHL, as the Wings let their players develop. No shame in this.

So before you go all IN and assume your talent is better (which could be the case) you should take a look at some of our prospects who will be in the lineup for the Wings within 1-2 years...Tatar, Nyquist, Mursak, Anderson, Smith, I.Can.Keep.Going.......but I'll stop bc you just attempted to tell a Wings fan that Philly has more depth than Detroit when Detroit sits 1-2 players/ night who could start ANYWHERE in the league...Red Wings talent/depth is just as comparable to Phillys. Yes, Philly has depth. They have talent. But to say that about Detroit shows me that your knowledge of others teams is not as good as you think it is, and to provide an answer to my "proposal" like you did is a shame given your knowledge of some players...enjoy the season and good luck w Jags and you are right he isnt going anywhere. Ill hope to see him next year in a Wings uni, as he will become another Selanne, but one that switches teams yearly until he retires..
Actually, you spelled "Brendan" as "Brenden"... that's what I was referring to... not the Lidstrom thing.

I was just joking around though, no reason to go off about it. I just thought it was funny that you didn't know how to spell the name of the kid you're praising as the "next Lidstrom".

Second off, I wasn't trying to make this some huge Flyers vs. Wings thing.

I'm quite aware of your depth and of your excellent prospects. Perhaps I phrased what I was trying to say poorly... I'll try again:

My point is that in a hypothetical trade between our 2 clubs, you would be getting Jagr and we would be getting some other pieces. Jagr is a short-term asset. He plays a maximum of 2 years. So your depth in the minors doesn't really matter b/c realistically, they cannot be expected to play @ Jagr's level over the next 2 years... they will take some time to acclimate to the NHL game. Jagr would immediately be your best RW, and he would make your current club a lot better. As I stated, a 1st line of Zetterberg/Franzen-Datsyuk-Jagr would be frightening.

But in order for a trade to make sense for the Flyers, the assets we get would need to either be:

1. Better short-term assets than Jagr (I don't think this is happening)

or

2. Good long-term assets for the Flyers.

My point in bringing up the Flyers' depth is that we have a bunch of wingers who will be with our club long-term (for the next 3-4 years minimum): Hartnell, Briere, Voracek, JVR, Simmonds, Read. That's 6 players for 6 wing spots in the top-9.

Hudler and Cleary aren't better than any of those wingers. They cannot reasonably be expected to be an improvement over any of those guys. So from our (the flyers') point of view, it would essentially be trading Jagr for 2 cap dumps + a late round pick.

This is why I went off on you for it. It's a poor proposal b/c you didn't look @ it from the Flyers' POV at all. Whenever I make a proposal, I at least take a look @ another team's needs and make sure it matches up.

And to the OP's suggested trade, sure the value is off in a Smith for Jagr deal... I think we can all agree on this. But the idea of the trade is certainly correct. You have a lot of older players that are nearing the end of their prime and you really lack a young star (you have prospects capable of filling this void, but nobody @ the NHL level proving it yet). You're going to struggle massively when Lidstrom retires and Datsyuk and Zetterberg & Franzen start to slow down.

It makes a lot of sense for you guys to trade picks or a promising prospect or two to load up for one or two or three final runs @ the cup w/ this current core of players.

Anyway, I have no problem with you or the Wings (other than that Stanley Cup...), and I actually really enjoy watching you guys play (especially Datsyuk). But your counter proposal made no sense from the Flyers POV.

WeekendAtBernies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 06:16 PM
  #90
Huddy*
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bloomfield Hills, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 2,545
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Huddy*
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
And to the OP's suggested trade, sure the value is off in a Smith for Jagr deal... I think we can all agree on this. But the idea of the trade is certainly correct. You have a lot of older players that are nearing the end of their prime and you really lack a young star (you have prospects capable of filling this void, but nobody @ the NHL level proving it yet). You're going to struggle massively when Lidstrom retires and Datsyuk and Zetterberg & Franzen start to slow down.
When Z and Datsyuk slow down there is Mursak/Tatar/Nyquist to fill the void...not saying anyone of them will be the players Z and Datsyuk are, but these three players are the future of Detroit...These players are the next wave of studs for the Wings. Nyquist is just nasty...

Ive heard all the hoopla about the Wings starting to "slow down." That theory alone is wrong given that label was on us before Z and Datsyuk were drafted. I am not worried about the Wings future once Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Z, Franzen move on given the plethora of talent we have in the AHL and playing overseas...

I would love Jagr to be in our lineup...who wouldn't? but your right its not feasible at this moment for either team, as the RW wont give up a valuable prospect we lack playing at the NHL level and I dont think Philly wants role players such as Hudler/Cleary.....We did give you Leino tho and that worked out only for him to suck again in Buffalo

Huddy* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-13-2011, 07:06 PM
  #91
Left Circle OneTimer
Registered User
 
Left Circle OneTimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Wells Fargo Center
Posts: 2,081
vCash: 500
With Giroux out we might as well trade Jagr so we can plummet to the bottom of the goals for per game standings. TC forgot injuries exist and there's something called "depth" that any team that plans to win should have.

Left Circle OneTimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:18 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.