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Old
12-10-2011, 01:00 PM
  #26
Jason Lewis
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Originally Posted by Magicman View Post
Nope.

Lombardi completly ****ED UP the goaltending with the Cloutier deal.

Had he not Quick gets no shot.
Silver lining tot he Cloutier deal.


If that deal is never made, we probably don't see Quick. Instead the Kings deal for some other goalie who is less injury prone, and Quick is shoved into the minors behind goalie X and Labarabarararabarabara

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Old
12-10-2011, 01:02 PM
  #27
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[QUOTE=Whiskeypete;40735901]i dont prefer one over the other, both guys seem to be very even keeled with great work ethics. two great traits in a goalie.

what i don't like is the lack of games that JB gets. he needs more plain and simple, for two reasons.

first, for the team to set his value for when and if DL makes a move. it's hard for DL to make a trade with him at this point based on his limited GP in the NHL. compare this to JQ's stats and what he would command in a trade situation. im not advocating either over the other so don't go ******* thinking im calling for JQ's trade. im just saying that Quick has a true trade value based on his numbers, JB doesn't. this will limit the net return DL will get for him.

second, JB's game also seems to call for him to get in a groove. he struggled in LA years ago when he didn't get much time. he gets sent to MAN, gets a ton of time and suddenly he is the messiah in net. last season when he was getting more starts in a more consistent manner, his game really began to improve. the guy needs playing time plain and simple. this is another case of player mismanagement when it comes to Murray, plain and simple. (...)/QUOTE]

Well put. I agree totally: it is a "lose-lose" if JB does not play. If he ever is to be traded, in order to have a trade value, he has to be in front of the net. The rest (he is or he isn't the goalie of the future is pure speculation including my own that is I think he is).

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Old
12-10-2011, 01:09 PM
  #28
Jason Lewis
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I just don't understand some people.


So you trade Quick because he has the numbers and that makes his value way higher then Jonathan Bernier...


so essentially you want the Kings to trade the better goaltender, because you'll get a better return. Meanwhile we turn to Bernier who hasn't proven he can be a starter in the NHL.


ah I get it.

So let's trade Kopitar because his value is higher then Loktionovs right now.

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12-10-2011, 03:50 PM
  #29
Frolov 6'3
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Some common sense because I read a lot of bull in this thread.

1) Quick was lucky he became the Kings goaltender because the Kings didnt have a good goalie at the time. He had to outplay Lolbarbara and Ersberg. Let's not use this against Bernier.
2) Lets be honest, if Bernier was ready at the time like he is now, he might have been the Kings starting goalie and not Quick.
3) Quick is not lucky that he is the Kings starting goalie right now because he has deserved it. He's damn good.
4) Bernier cant outplay Quick because Quick has been pretty consistant during his NHL career so far. Saying he is outworking Bernier in practice and in games is lame. You can only outplay the starting the goalie if he fails for long stretches and Quick just never sucks for several games in a row.. + Bernier barely gets any playing time. Jonathan Quick has even played back to back games this season. Its pretty much an impossible task for Bernier. When Bernier gets the shut out, he will still be watching the game from the bench the next game.
4) I doubt Bernier will ever overtake the starting position. Bernier might be more talented but Quick is just too consistant and pretty good.

The End

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12-10-2011, 03:52 PM
  #30
The Black1963
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3 to 5 years from now, I think Bernier will be a top 5 goalie in the nhl.

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Old
12-10-2011, 08:03 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
3 to 5 years from now, I think Bernier will be a top 5 goalie in the nhl.
Except in the shootout

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Old
12-10-2011, 11:34 PM
  #32
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It would be foolish to move either of these goaltenders this season. They are both signed beyond this season, and combined, they are an excellent value, as good a contract value as any goaltender tandem in the NHL.

I can see Bernier being traded, because Quick is IMO a proven star goaltender, but it would have to be a killer deal to do it anytime sooner than Fall of 2012 or Spring of 2013.

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Old
12-11-2011, 12:10 AM
  #33
Mr Irreverent
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Team plays like **** in front of Bernier. Sad he never gets any goal scoring support.

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Old
12-11-2011, 11:37 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Mr Irreverent View Post
Team plays like **** in front of Bernier. Sad he never gets any goal scoring support.
At this point neither goalie is getting any goal support. But I also feel like the team just doesnt play for Bernier. This team is ridiculous.

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Old
12-11-2011, 12:50 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
Except in the shootout
Shoot-outs don't win you cups.

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Old
12-11-2011, 01:09 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
3 to 5 years from now, I think Bernier will be a top 5 goalie in the nhl.
I agree with you. I think Bernier will be better than Quick, but Quick is established, he has the faith and confidence of management, the locker room, and the fan base. You don't mess with something that is working. Goaltending is important, but you don't need Hasek or Roy in the net to win a cup. Quick is easily good enough to advance this team forward.

Quick got the luck of the draw, but that is how it is in all of sports. Bernier would be the guy if Dean had continued to play him that year, but Quick ended up in a revolving door of mediocrity where he was the only one to come out alive from before Bernier was look upon as being ready.

In the end, Quick is good enough, even if he doesn't end up the best of the two - he is our option right now and he has established himself a solid, spurning on elite, goaltender in the NHL. It is hard to go backwards, let Quick go, and then hope Bernier reaches his potential, if something were to go wrong then it would have all been for nothing. Got to take the established option now for better or worse, the difference between them, as far as we can foresee, is not great enough to warrant the risk.

Not that I am arguing with you, just re-iterating for the thread. Unless Quick just absolutely nosedives or has a major injury, the Kings will have to deal Bernier, regardless of potential or beliefs.

Quote:
BerniernextRoy;40791935]Shoot-outs don't win you cups.
No, but they get you there, especially in this era where every single point is life or death in this pacific. Also, one on one situations, while rare are very important in today's NHL with the openness and speed of the game today. Bernier needs to work on his fundamentals, the odds should be in his favor in shootout attempts and breakaways.

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Old
12-11-2011, 01:44 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Telos View Post



No, but they get you there, especially in this era where every single point is life or death in this pacific. Also, one on one situations, while rare are very important in today's NHL with the openness and speed of the game today. Bernier needs to work on his fundamentals, the odds should be in his favor in shootout attempts and breakaways.
Problem is, we're beyond "getting there". Bernier's fundamentals are fine, that's his game. Also regarding shoot-outs, Dean Lombardi doesn't put a lot of stock into them, if any. They don't prepare you for the playoffs, even though you may make it. You saw what happened last year when the Kings made it to the playoffs with a ton of shootout points. We lost every game in overtime. So Dean recognizes the need to finish games in regulation and not rely on shoot-out wins.

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Old
12-11-2011, 01:46 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy View Post
Problem is, we're beyond "getting there". Bernier's fundamentals are fine, that's his game. Also regarding shoot-outs, Dean Lombardi doesn't put a lot of stock into them, if any. They don't prepare you for the playoffs, even though you may make it. You saw what happened last year when the Kings made it to the playoffs with a ton of shootout points. We lost every game in overtime. So Dean recognizes the need to finish games in regulation and not rely on shoot-out wins.
You won't get there if you lose all your shootouts, there are no playoffs to speak of. I am not saying it is everything, it is a small aspect of the game that has a considerable impact. Bernier needs to work on his 1 on 1 techniques as much as Quick needs to work on his stickhandling...

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Old
12-11-2011, 08:07 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Kingurentai View Post
I was just thinkng we need to let Bernier play more so we can see for sure. Quick is getting tired.
With this team in free-falll, TM should be alternating the goalies - pure 50/50.

Let's see what Bernier can really do. If he excels, it will only raise his value - either here or in a trade.

But like I've said for a while, Bernier has HAD his chances this year, and he hasn't really challenged Quick yet. He has played ok - not great (hasn't stolen any points).

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Old
12-11-2011, 08:15 PM
  #40
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The Kings have scored 11 goals in Bernier's six starts. He deserves more.

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12-11-2011, 09:37 PM
  #41
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The Kings have scored 11 goals in Bernier's six starts. He deserves more.
ouch!

Yeah, his teammates are doing him no favors.

Maybe he needs to get a couple of assists like Quick...

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12-11-2011, 10:09 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
The Kings have scored 11 goals in Bernier's six starts. He deserves more.
if you take out the 5 goal games that's basically what the team averages with quick in net.

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Old
12-11-2011, 11:23 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Magicman View Post
Nope.

Lombardi completly ****ED UP the goaltending with the Cloutier deal.

Had he not Quick gets no shot.
What????

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Old
12-11-2011, 11:26 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
Some common sense because I read a lot of bull in this thread.

1) Quick was lucky he became the Kings goaltender because the Kings didnt have a good goalie at the time. He had to outplay Lolbarbara and Ersberg. Let's not use this against Bernier.
2) Lets be honest, if Bernier was ready at the time like he is now, he might have been the Kings starting goalie and not Quick.
3) Quick is not lucky that he is the Kings starting goalie right now because he has deserved it. He's damn good.
4) Bernier cant outplay Quick because Quick has been pretty consistant during his NHL career so far. Saying he is outworking Bernier in practice and in games is lame. You can only outplay the starting the goalie if he fails for long stretches and Quick just never sucks for several games in a row.. + Bernier barely gets any playing time. Jonathan Quick has even played back to back games this season. Its pretty much an impossible task for Bernier. When Bernier gets the shut out, he will still be watching the game from the bench the next game.
4) I doubt Bernier will ever overtake the starting position. Bernier might be more talented but Quick is just too consistant and pretty good.

The End
Quick got the call up and the chance to outplay LaBarbara and Ersberg in LA because he outplayed Bernier in Manchester. That happened in spite of the Kings giving Bernier as much slack as they could. It was just obvious that Quick was the goalie that gave the Monarchs the best chance to win when they were both there.

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Old
12-12-2011, 02:58 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
With this team in free-falll, TM should be alternating the goalies - pure 50/50.

Let's see what Bernier can really do. If he excels, it will only raise his value - either here or in a trade.

But like I've said for a while, Bernier has HAD his chances this year, and he hasn't really challenged Quick yet. He has played ok - not great (hasn't stolen any points).
I don't agree with 50/50, but I do think Bernier should have started more so far this year. As always, Murray's decisions with goaltending are inconsistent and sometimes baffling. Quick gets three shutouts in a row and then Bernier plays because Murray told him he would, then later Quick gets a shutout and also plays the next game despite Murray telling Bernier he was going to play that game. Quick playing back-to-backs, Bernier not getting starts against Eastern teams when we've played a bunch of games right before, etc. Maybe things will change with a new coach.

I have never been a "Bernier is the guy" person and have never chosen a side in a endless goalie debate, but I do think he should be getting a few more games.

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Old
12-13-2011, 04:03 PM
  #46
Frolov 6'3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Quick got the call up and the chance to outplay LaBarbara and Ersberg in LA because he outplayed Bernier in Manchester. That happened in spite of the Kings giving Bernier as much slack as they could. It was just obvious that Quick was the goalie that gave the Monarchs the best chance to win when they were both there.
You seriously dont believe this yourself, do you ?

He did not outplay him. Quick played 14 AHL games and sucked even more as Bernier in his first stint with the big team.

It was Bernier's first year in the AHL, no need to ruin his confidence like Steve Mason.

Bernier was the Kings goalie of the future. Why would they call up him while he now got the chance to play a full season in the AHL. Quick was 2,5 years older and who would care about him. To call up Quick was the most logical choice and I'm 100% sure Kings management never ever thought he would turn into a this.

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