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Old
12-10-2011, 06:08 PM
  #76
Kel Varnsen
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
Orr?

Orr is terrible at everything, he's never been a PKer, at least from what I remember. Same with Hollweg.

Dubinsky mixes good defense with good offense. More so than Anisimov on the PK. He isn't just going to play his defensive specialists.
Not hitting. And that was the point...

Dubi gets A TON more pk time than anisimov. you're fooling only yourself if you think that's because dubi provides more O or hitting instead of being the better defensive player. If the difference in PK time between the two was a few seconds a game than maybe you have a point. But it's not. It's almost a minute per game.

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12-10-2011, 06:46 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Apologized then said I have othe celebrations up my sleeve . Real mature . Id def be looking to run him . He effed up big time . Show boats deserve what they get . Act as if you been there before . BYE BYE Bean !!! Send him packing
Kerry Fraser, one of the most respected people in the NHL over the past couple decades had this to say about Anisimov, after the showboating incident.

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From my personal experience with this player on the ice many times, I know him to be nothing but respectful and a real classy individual.

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12-10-2011, 07:19 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
I think you're confusing Anisimov with Dubinsky.

Anisimov is not better defensively than Dubi. Objective fact. Why else does Dubi log the most minutes on the penalty kill of any forward per game? Almost a minute more per game than Anisimov. Last year Dubi finished second only to Callahan for forwards in penalty kill time per game, but finished with over a minute more per game than Anisimov. Torts obviously think you have no idea what you're talking about and Torts and you're just some fan, Torts is the coach.
This is neither objective or factual. Anisimov's positioning is much better than Dubinsky's. If you think that the reason Dubinsky got more penalty killing time last season is because he's a better defensive player, you haven't analyzed the situation properly (or you don't understand how to evaluate proper positioning).

Last season, this dreadfully below average offensive team with a brutal PP couldn't afford to play it safe on penalty kills. They had to be aggressive and try and create offensive opportunities shorthanded. Dubinsky is better than Anisimov offensively, and not a bad defensive player by any means, so he made more sense, especailly when Callahan is such a phenomenal defensive player. Subsequently, the Rangers were 4th in the league in shorthanded goals for.

Now, look at this season. Not counting the games in Europe, Dubinsky averaged more total ice time than Anisimov until the last few weeks. Anisimov did not play well early in the season, but Dubinsky's lack of production puts more pressure on Anisimov to produce. Giving Anisimov more responsibility offensively means scaling down his ice time on the kill, which they can afford to do because as good as Anisimov is defensively, the Rangers have a bunch of other forwards who are more than adequate in that regard (including Dubinsky), and one who is even better than Artie (Callahan). Conversely, Dubinsky is still playing a decent game away from the puck, so even as a 4th liner, he'll still get penalty killing ice time. He's gotta get ice time some how, anyway.

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Anisimov has a better shot? Yeah I guess that's why he scored more goals than Dubi last year. Wait. Dubi scored more goals than Anisimov last year? Wait, Dubi also had a higher shooting percentage than Anisimov? Guess you're just talking out of your ass again.
I don't think Anisimov has a better shot than Dubinsky, personally, but just to show you how weak your argument (the very kind of argument you decry later in your post when you tell people to stop looking at box scores) is. Anisimov has a career shooting percentage of 9.7, while Dubinsky's is 9.5, so there ya go. Dubinsky is a career 0.21 goals per game, Anisimov's is 0.18. Dubinsky's goals have been 14,13,20,24. He didn't take that step up until his third season. Artie's gone 12, and 18. Does that mean that Anisimov's scoring is progressing faster than Dubinsky's? No, but if I made that argument, it wouldn't be any weaker than the one you're making.

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Passing, from LW Dubi had more assists than Anisimov from C last year. 'Nuff said.
About what? The fact that Dubinsky is in his 5th NHL season, and Anisimov is only in his third? I think most people can see Dubinsky is a better overall offensive player.

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Oh and I see you forgot that centers are supposed to take faceoffs, but Anisimov is still pretty inept in that area. Dubi isn't. In fact he's pretty good at them. In fact he had to take a ton of faceoffs for Anisimov back when the pack line was together because of the difference between the two in that area. Another point for Dubi.
Anisimov isn't very good at faceoffs, but neither is Stepan. So what? Faceoffs is the kind of thing you can continue to improve at throughout your career, and Anisimov is clearly an intelligent player, especially since his positioning and defensive play is as impressive as it is. No one thinks he's a flawless player, but there's no denying his proficiency defensively, particularly positionally.

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All NYR fans have to get a grip. Stop simply checking the box scores the next morning in the paper. Start watching the games. Maybe then these boards won't be so schizophrenic with every day when the wind blows in a different direction. Sorry for the rant, but it had to be done.
Yeah, you're the only one watching the games.

I've dealt with a good deal of coaches at a variety of age levels, and even though many of them have different styles and approaches to the game, there are certain qualities they all look for in players or for certain roles or situationals. Some of them are simply universal. I think a vast majority of those coaches would disagree with you if you think Dubinsky is a better defensive player than Anisimov, or that his positioning is better. Dubinsky is above average in that regard, and definitely has the physical edge. Hell, he's probably the more valuable player overall, but he's not better defensively.

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12-10-2011, 07:30 PM
  #79
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I wouldn't trade either one unless it was a significant upgrade.

Like I said earlier, id keep Dubinsky, but...based on upside and contract, Anisimov would be the one kept.

I want to see Arty get stronger. But he's a fine young player.

Id have a difficult time letting either player go.

Im content to keep both, and wait for Kreider to arrive.

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12-10-2011, 07:43 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
Depends on what we're getting in return, doesn't it? I'd probably pick Dubinsky in most situations, though.
agreed

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12-10-2011, 07:46 PM
  #81
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And that thing with Arty was blown outbof proportion. By all accounts and seen in interviews, he's a good kid.

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12-10-2011, 08:14 PM
  #82
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Theo Fleury did a similar thing in WJC , wasn't received well either

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12-10-2011, 09:23 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Don't want to see either traded.

Some people are down on Dubinsky right now because he hasn't been scoring goals but at least lately he's been playing with lesser offensive players--and some times players have down years then bounce back (remember Gaborik last year?)--some times down years turns into a great playoffs.

There are good reasons to keep Anisimov over Dubinsky and good reasons to keep Dubinsky over Anisimov. Dubi is not just more physical--he's a heart and soul player who will jump in for a teammate even if he's not great a fighter.
All good points. But if, and there are many ifs, Stall and Sauer return and play well, it is possible that both could be gone, [B]If[B] a Bobby Ryan becomes available

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12-10-2011, 09:39 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by wafflepadsave View Post
All good points. But if, and there are many ifs, Stall and Sauer return and play well, it is possible that both could be gone, [B]If[B] a Bobby Ryan becomes available
No way dubi and anisimov are packaged together for ryan

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12-10-2011, 09:52 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
No way dubi and anisimov are packaged together for ryan
Maybe not but they not going to take Christensen back.

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12-10-2011, 10:06 PM
  #86
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Anisimov is our best defensive forward arguably.

Cally and Dubi are better PKers, but Arty is better defensively 5 on 5, than Dubi at least.

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12-10-2011, 10:30 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by wafflepadsave View Post
Maybe not but they not going to take Christensen back.
What does that have to do with the price of potatoes?

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12-10-2011, 10:54 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I wouldn't trade either one unless it was a significant upgrade.

Like I said earlier, id keep Dubinsky, but...based on upside and contract, Anisimov would be the one kept.

I want to see Arty get stronger. But he's a fine young player.

Id have a difficult time letting either player go.

Im content to keep both, and wait for Kreider to arrive.
You know monkey, I could not have said it better. Well done.

I will only add that Joe mentioned tonight how close Dubi and Tort's get along. That they sit down together almost every day. They've had occasion to butt heads in the past, but Dubi is a Tort's kind of player and Torts wants to go to war with him. Same w/Arty.

Neither are going anywhere, unless something really crazy happens. Done with this thread.

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12-11-2011, 06:20 AM
  #89
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Dibo

Dubi back on the Brad line really not getting any chances out there . He's lost in the sauce . A change of scenery would do him good . Little things defense etc are obviously a huge part of winning but creating and converting on scoring chances are paramount . Dubi or AA only moved if the right deal comes along


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Old
12-11-2011, 03:18 PM
  #90
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i dont WANT either of them traded, but depending on how we improve the team, either and both are moveable.

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12-11-2011, 03:23 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
i dont WANT either of them traded, but depending on how we improve the team, either and both are moveable.

Yep, anyone is move-able if the right offer comes along. It's just that, with the top of the line players, you're extremely unlikely to get an offer so favorable that it compels you to move one of them.

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12-11-2011, 03:24 PM
  #92
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no trades please. at least, nothing major. the rangers don't need to move either of those guys. get a nice vet sniper, a la gartner, for a draft pick or something. that's all this team needs. maybe another defenseman, with all the injuries. other than that, no need to do anything rash. unless a great deal falls into sather's lap. but that can't be expected.

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12-11-2011, 03:25 PM
  #93
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if one had to go, id move anisimov. dubi has no value now.

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12-11-2011, 09:06 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Puckface NYR View Post
What does that have to do with the price of potatoes?
Nothing. Guess you missed the point.

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12-12-2011, 05:51 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Dubi or Anisimov?
Thats tough,both seem the same will either just be good or complete busts...Im not sure what to make of either of them. I am a fan of the N.A game and thats the game Dubinsky plays.Hardnosed and tough. I also do think there is something quiet special about AA as well..

this is tight .I cant decide.

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12-13-2011, 03:58 PM
  #96
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Haven't read previous posters so, not sure if this has been proposed already...

Dubi and a 3rd for Chris Stewart.

Stewart is slumping almost as bad as Dubi.

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12-13-2011, 04:20 PM
  #97
Kel Varnsen
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Haven't read previous posters so, not sure if this has been proposed already...

Dubi and a 3rd for Chris Stewart.

Stewart is slumping almost as bad as Dubi.
Isn't there a different thread for stupid, baseless, fan created trade ideas?

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Old
12-13-2011, 04:21 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Haven't read previous posters so, not sure if this has been proposed already...

Dubi and a 3rd for Chris Stewart.

Stewart is slumping almost as bad as Dubi.
Not terrible. Pretty even in value, but I just don't see the benefit for us. This is too much of a lateral move, and Dubinsky already bleeds blue and wants to be here (despite the contract negotiations issues, the guy plays with passion and wants to win in NY). I think he's very well-liked in the room and is going to be a big part of our success moving forward. He's having a bad start to the season. It's way too early to give up on him with a lateral move like this. At this point, I'm only moving Dubinsky in a larger package for a much better player ala Bobby Ryan. Otherwise, we keep Dubi. If only Torts would put him even with Hags and Mitchell, instead of on the fourth line. Boyle has been much worse than Dubinsky overall and yet he gets rewarded for taking penalties and killing posessions. Kind of a head-scratcher. I like Boyle, but the guy is off his game right now. He needs a wake up call, while Dubi is still playing solid hockey. He's just not making that extra split-second play to lead to a quality scoring chance. Put him with Richards and Cally or at least with Hagelin and Mitchell and let him regain some confidence with the puck. Dubinsky's at his best when he's getting touches with the puck and playing a give-and-go cycle game below the hashmarks: the exact gameplan Tortorella wants.

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12-13-2011, 04:32 PM
  #99
Barbara Underhill
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Dubinsky is one of our top penalty killers. So this notion that Anisimov is head and shoulders above Dubinsky defensively is false.

Anisimov is also not better then Dubinsky offensively, either.

Anisimov is soft. But he has skill.

Id take Dubinsky over Anisimov 10 times out of 10.

But unfortunately contracts are a factor.
Anisimov is soft, yet he's never missed a game due to injury? Ok.

He's not as good offensively as Dubinsky, yet they have put up nearly identical PTS per game at the NHL level. Ok. .47 for AA .46 for Dubi.

He's over rated defensively? Ok.

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12-13-2011, 06:52 PM
  #100
Kel Varnsen
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Not terrible. Pretty even in value, but I just don't see the benefit for us. This is too much of a lateral move, and Dubinsky already bleeds blue and wants to be here (despite the contract negotiations issues, the guy plays with passion and wants to win in NY). I think he's very well-liked in the room and is going to be a big part of our success moving forward. He's having a bad start to the season. It's way too early to give up on him with a lateral move like this. At this point, I'm only moving Dubinsky in a larger package for a much better player ala Bobby Ryan. Otherwise, we keep Dubi. If only Torts would put him even with Hags and Mitchell, instead of on the fourth line. Boyle has been much worse than Dubinsky overall and yet he gets rewarded for taking penalties and killing posessions. Kind of a head-scratcher. I like Boyle, but the guy is off his game right now. He needs a wake up call, while Dubi is still playing solid hockey. He's just not making that extra split-second play to lead to a quality scoring chance. Put him with Richards and Cally or at least with Hagelin and Mitchell and let him regain some confidence with the puck. Dubinsky's at his best when he's getting touches with the puck and playing a give-and-go cycle game below the hashmarks: the exact gameplan Tortorella wants.
Here's another problem with the trade idea, neither GM has expressed any interest in it whatsoever.

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