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It was at home, what do you think happened?

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Old
12-13-2011, 10:34 PM
  #101
Myllz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
He didn't do much worth talking about in this game, yet many are still talking about him. Why? Yeah, I'm going to point out the stupidity of that. Sorry. Don't like it? Use the ignore feature.
All I did was answer the question.

He's brought up because it's massively frustrating that he's even playing. He's not an NHL caliber player. Period. Yet not only does he still continue to play, he gets all kinds of chances and time on the powerplay. It's maddening and annoying, and because of that people bring it up. It's a screw up of the organization as a whole, so it's brought up in a GBU after the team lost.

Likewise, you find it maddening and annoying that people keep talking about him all the time, so you bring him up in defense. Same thing.

Did he directly contribute to the team losing? No more than anyone else.

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12-13-2011, 10:37 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by static80 View Post
Vanek needs a decent pivot player.
Stafford plays with Roy, so he has no excuse
Szczechura was the best player on that line tonight. He has 1-3-4 in five games. I'm not saying he's anything more than good filler at the NHL level, but he hasn't been the problem on that line.

Vanek did great last season without a good center, anyways, when he was the one the offense was running through. He's in a slump right now, that's all. He's human.

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12-13-2011, 10:38 PM
  #103
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I can't believe I'm saying this.

But I think it might be time to change my username..

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Old
12-13-2011, 10:41 PM
  #104
joshjull
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So questioning Ruff's continued use of Grags on the #1 PP unit is not fair somehow?

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Old
12-13-2011, 10:43 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
All I did was answer the question.

He's brought up because it's massively frustrating that he's even playing. He's not an NHL caliber player. Period. Yet not only does he still continue to play, he gets all kinds of chances and time on the powerplay. It's maddening and annoying, and because of that people bring it up. It's a screw up of the organization as a whole, so it's brought up in a GBU after the team lost.

Likewise, you find it maddening and annoying that people keep talking about him all the time, so you bring him up in defense. Same thing.

Did he directly contribute to the team losing? No more than anyone else.
He's played lately because we've had no alternatives, especially when Myers, Leo, and Weber were all injured (as was Brennan for a period). Tonight, he was on the 4th line. I'm not going to throw my hands up about him being in over filler like Ellis, who I hadn't even noticed since prior to Thanksgiving.

As far as the PP goes, I don't like any of our other pointmen. I've been horribly disappointed with Ehrhoff independent of Gragnani--Hoff's shot is horribly inaccurate and he may be the worst defenseman at keeping the puck in the zone that this team has seen in years. Leopold hasn't gotten anything going back there. Myers is hurt. Options are limited.

BTW, I actually thought our 2nd period PP was pretty good. They moved and had good chances. I still maintain the biggest problem with the PP is X's and O's more than the players. Their strategy sucks, has for years.

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12-13-2011, 10:48 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
So questioning Ruff's continued use of Grags on the #1 PP unit is not fair somehow?
Unfair? No. Kind of pointless considering he didn't really do anything wrong on the PP tonight and the whole PP isn't working right now? Perhaps.

But, it's an interwebz message board, so I guess we have to talk about it.

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12-13-2011, 10:48 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
He's played lately because we've had no alternatives, especially when Myers, Leo, and Weber were all injured (as was Brennan for a period). Tonight, he was on the 4th line. I'm not going to throw my hands up about him being in over filler like Ellis, who I hadn't even noticed since prior to Thanksgiving.

As far as the PP goes, I don't like any of our other pointmen. I've been horribly disappointed with Ehrhoff independent of Gragnani--Hoff's shot is horribly inaccurate and he may be the worst defenseman at keeping the puck in the zone that this team has seen in years. Leopold hasn't gotten anything going back there. Myers is hurt. Options are limited.

BTW, I actually thought our 2nd period PP was pretty good. They moved and had good chances. I still maintain the biggest problem with the PP is X's and O's more than the players. Their strategy sucks, has for years.
I don't disagree. For me personally, I just can't stand seeing Grags out there in any capacity at this point. That's probably unfair, but that's just how I feel. I never want to see him on the ice for the Sabres again, and every game he's out there just frustrates me. I tend to try and not bring it up every time something bad happens, but I can sort of understand why some people do.

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12-13-2011, 10:51 PM
  #108
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I've always been a supporter of Lindy too, but pretty much all of his coaching decisions this year have been puzzling. From Gragnani's usage to the terrible PP to the insistence on "the shell" when ahead (thereby nearly always surrendering the lead), I just can't figure it out. On top of that, he seems to want to force a system that is not within his players' strengths, so the end result is nothing resembling coherence at all the vast majority of the time.

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Old
12-13-2011, 10:53 PM
  #109
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If Grags is going to be playing he might as well be on the PP, only place he's good for.

I'd say the question is a step back, why is he playing?

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12-13-2011, 10:56 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Szczechura was the best player on that line tonight. He has 1-3-4 in five games. I'm not saying he's anything more than good filler at the NHL level, but he hasn't been the problem on that line.

Vanek did great last season without a good center, anyways, when he was the one the offense was running through. He's in a slump right now, that's all. He's human.
Your correct, Szczechura is merely a filler. He won't be the center to help elevate the play of Vanek.
Vanek isn't in a slump, he's right where he is at most seasons, in the 60 to 70 point range. If we want him to have the elevated offensive production that everyone, including the NHL pundits and experts know he is capable of, then the center position is most certainly the problem.

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Old
12-13-2011, 11:05 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Unfair? No. Kind of pointless considering he didn't really do anything wrong on the PP tonight and the whole PP isn't working right now? Perhaps.
It not pointless to question Ruff's insistance on putting Grags on the #1 PP unit. That the PP is struggling as a whole is even more reason to point this out. As a fan of Ruff, I truly am baffled by his steadfast insistance on Grags being on the #1 PP unit and getting the type of ice time he does on the PP.


Last edited by joshjull: 12-13-2011 at 11:52 PM.
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Old
12-13-2011, 11:58 PM
  #112
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I'm not ready to blow it up. But I am ready to trade Derek Roy. He's a very good player, but only when he wants to be. Tonight, I noticed him several times in a good way. But I also noticed him doing the things I hate - whining about penalty calls, missing important chances, and being a general primadonna on the ice. With Roy as our #1 center, we are not going to win the Stanley Cup.

Now, I'm still a Roy fan. I think he's a very underrated player around the league, he's dynamic offensively and defensively when he's playing well, but I don't think he's good for this team. I think it would really shake the team up if he was traded for a more professional sort of player (Some sort of big package for a center?)

I don't like the leadership on this team. We have Miller.... we have Vanek.... but we also have leaders like Derek Roy, who really isn't cut out to be a guy that other guys have to look to for leadership, and Drew Stafford, who needs to think about working out his own problems before he starts thinking about leading other men on the ice and being an example.

To be honest, I don't think this team is all that far away. I like our team on paper - we just need one shakeup. That's it. We're missing a major piece (A player that combines leadership with grit and on ice performance), and a few minor pieces (A few grinders who step up their game in the playoff to fit in on the 3rd and 4th lines).

We have a very good defense that combines offensive ability with defense, grit, and physicality. Our offense is good enough, and if we add that one major piece that's missing I think it would be more than good enough, provided that the piece we add clicks with the team.

We all know Ryan Miller isn't the problem with this team.

We aren't that far away. I just hope Lindy, Darcy, and Terry realize that and make the necessary change - soon.

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Old
12-14-2011, 12:00 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Szczechura was the best player on that line tonight. He has 1-3-4 in five games. I'm not saying he's anything more than good filler at the NHL level, but he hasn't been the problem on that line.

Vanek did great last season without a good center, anyways, when he was the one the offense was running through. He's in a slump right now, that's all. He's human.
As of right now, I'm more than happy with Chewie's play between Vanek and Pominville. Keep him up for now, please.

And hell, he keeps Roy away from them, which is good enough for me...

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12-14-2011, 12:41 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
It not pointless to question Ruff's insistance on putting Grags on the #1 PP unit. That the PP is struggling as a whole is even more reason to point this out. As a fan of Ruff, I truly am baffled by his steadfast insistance on Grags being on the #1 PP unit and getting the type of ice time he does on the PP.
Just watched the game, so I'm late to the party…but…

This quoted post is exactly how I feel. It's a move with zero justification at this point. You can't rationalize Gragnani being forcefed these PP minutes, and you KNOW you're likely not scoring with him out there. For me personally, it's frustrating as hell coming from Ruff.


the offense doesn't exist. That's the ugly from tonight's charade.

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Old
12-14-2011, 12:48 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
For the same reason you insist on defending him for one reason or another in every thread possible.
Considering he's a +11 and has been on the ice for less goals against per 60 min at even strength than any other regular defenseman, he hasn't been a reason the Sabres have lost a lot of nights.

Say what you will about his play, but he is definitively not hurting the team on the scoreboard.

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12-14-2011, 12:50 AM
  #116
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Also, NO coach teaches "the shell". The very idea is absurd. That's a player issue. If Lindy was coaching "the shell", the Sabres would have come back out after getting scored on and tilted the ice back.

It's the players having no killer instinct and no idea how to play with the lead that's at issue here.

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12-14-2011, 12:52 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post

It's the players having no killer instinct and no idea how to play with the lead that's at issue here.
Pretty accurate IMO.

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12-14-2011, 01:01 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
Also, NO coach teaches "the shell". The very idea is absurd. That's a player issue. If Lindy was coaching "the shell", the Sabres would have come back out after getting scored on and tilted the ice back.

It's the players having no killer instinct and no idea how to play with the lead that's at issue here.
So if Lindy's totally innocent here, why do Roy and Stafford have letters and why were they on the ice in overtime?

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12-14-2011, 01:03 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
So if Lindy's totally innocent here, why do Roy and Stafford have letters and why were they on the ice in overtime?
What does this have to do with what I posted?

Oh yeah, nothing.

For the record, I think Roy and Stafford were both pretty good (until Stafford whiffed on his check on overtime). Vanek and Pominville were worse. You know the scapegoating is getting out of hand when Roy's getting bashed for picking up a measly point.

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12-14-2011, 01:04 AM
  #120
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I think juggling the lines is pass it's due. Split up Vanek and Pominville.

Vanek - Chewy - Ennis
Leino - Roy - Pominville
Stafford - Gaustad - McCormick
Kaleta? -Adam - Kassian

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12-14-2011, 01:21 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
What does this have to do with what I posted?

Oh yeah, nothing.

For the record, I think Roy and Stafford were both pretty good (until Stafford whiffed on his check on overtime). Vanek and Pominville were worse. You know the scapegoating is getting out of hand when Roy's getting bashed for picking up a measly point.
Because to according your answer, the failure of this team has nothing to do with coaching and everything to do with the players because they have "no killer instinct and no idea how to play with the lead."

So why have these same players been rewarded under the current coach if they're so mentally weak?

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12-14-2011, 01:24 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Because to according your answer, the failure of this team has nothing to do with coaching and everything to do with the players because they have "no killer instinct and no idea how to play with the lead."

So why have these same players been rewarded under the current coach if they're so mentally weak?
Lack of options

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12-14-2011, 01:25 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Unfair? No. Kind of pointless considering he didn't really do anything wrong on the PP tonight and the whole PP isn't working right now? Perhaps.

But, it's an interwebz message board, so I guess we have to talk about it.
Actually, it's not about MAG "not doing anything wrong" on the PP.
It's about him not doing anything significant on the PP for the entire season.
Seriously, I could do what he does on the PP, pass to the first guy next to me and fire weakass shots at net every 5th game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jflory81 View Post
Considering he's a +11 and has been on the ice for less goals against per 60 min at even strength than any other regular defenseman, he hasn't been a reason the Sabres have lost a lot of nights.

Say what you will about his play, but he is definitively not hurting the team on the scoreboard.
Rubbish.
He's +11, but oh dear god, some of those "pluses" (actually most of them) just sorta happened...
I begun calling a guy stepping on the ice on the line change and then someone scoring 150 feet away "the Gragnani plus".

Bottom line?
You'd think a +11 guy wouldn't be playing 7th D unless there was something seriously wrong, no??

...

Anyway, not pinning anything tonight on MAG.
But he's been completely underwhelming after a great series vs Flyers.

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12-14-2011, 01:27 AM
  #124
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Anyway, not pinning anything tonight on MAG.
But he's been completely underwhelming after a great series vs Flyers.
bottom line is this

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Old
12-14-2011, 01:27 AM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Because to according your answer, the failure of this team has nothing to do with coaching and everything to do with the players because they have "no killer instinct and no idea how to play with the lead."

So why have these same players been rewarded under the current coach if they're so mentally weak?
Rewarded? Top 6 guys playing in overtime is hardly "rewarded". I can only imagine the vitriol against Ruff if he cycled Gaustad, Chewy, Kaleta, and McCormick in overtime.

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