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Would all those who mocked me for saying Desharnais could make it in the NHL stand up

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Old
12-14-2011, 08:46 AM
  #76
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(I'll play along)

Or Nokelainen as fourth.
Haha, Noke scored a beauty last night no ?

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12-14-2011, 08:47 AM
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To be honest though this thread is a little like saying I picked a needle out of a haystack and it was the right one.

At the point you were saying you knew DH would be an NHLer there really wasn't any logical reason to think he would or wouldn't be. It was just wild speculation you were correct about.

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12-14-2011, 08:48 AM
  #78
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Anyways, Pacioretty hasn't played like a power forward in a very long time.
He never has.

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12-14-2011, 08:50 AM
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Lol yet we can almost beat the stanley cup champions with a 38-point centre who is even less physical than DD a year ago?

I'm going to laugh when he scores 60 points and people still say he's too small to be useful. Wait, I'm already laughing.
He's on pace for 45 points with good ice time and excellent wingers. Yeah, he's amazing. I love the kid but he's a good third line center on any serious team. Really.

The standards here are dropping off a cliff.

You seriously think Pleks and DD are gonna be 1-2 next year? Dream on. Habs are dead if that is the case.

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12-14-2011, 08:52 AM
  #80
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Honestly, who cares if he's not an elite team's 2nd line center, we know.
I care. I want the Habs to be an elite team. What do you want?

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12-14-2011, 08:55 AM
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He's on pace for 45 points with good ice time and excellent wingers. Yeah, he's amazing. I love the kid but he's a good third line center on any serious team. Really.

The standards here are dropping off a cliff.

You seriously think Pleks and DD are gonna be 1-2 next year? Dream on. Habs are dead if that is the case.
Agreed. Anyone who actually thinks DD is a competent 2nd line C is simply looking at the stat sheet only. His wingers make him a lot more productive than he is. No denying he has the skill to step up and play in a 2nd line role but would never want him there as a permanent fixture. I still see him as more of a 3rd line center on a team that has 3 scoring lines. I still think Eller should be given more ice time with him but DD wouldn't be nearly as successful if he had Kostitsyn/Moen versus Cole/Pacioretty. Not only that he'd be getting 3-4 minutes a game less.

People need to factor in who he plays with, two of our best forwards. Who makes space for DD? Cole and Pacioretty. Who puts the puck in the net? Cole and Pacioretty. Put him with Moen/Kostitsyn, he won't be the same guy he is. At the end of the day I'm really happy for DD but anyone who thinks he's going to be a permanent top 2 center is dreaming imo. We tried signing Richards in the summer, obviously our management knows what a real top 2 centers looks like in Richards/Plekanec. Somehow Plekanec/Desharnais doesn't look like a real 1-2 punch.

I hope I'm wrong and he can continue developing, getting better and become a real 2nd line center I just have my doubts. I think Eller has all the tools and if he can pull a Pacioretty he'll no doubt be the 2nd line center we covet.

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12-14-2011, 08:56 AM
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He's on pace for 45 points with good ice time and excellent wingers. Yeah, he's amazing. I love the kid but he's a good third line center on any serious team. Really.

The standards here are dropping off a cliff.

You seriously think Pleks and DD are gonna be 1-2 next year? Dream on. Habs are dead if that is the case.
Options ? I don't foresee any within the organisation.

Maybe time to package Cammy, Weber, + some prospect we have on the wing for THAT # 1 center ?

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12-14-2011, 08:57 AM
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Agreed. Anyone who actually thinks DD is a competent 2nd line C is simply looking at the stat sheet only. His wingers make him a lot more productive than he is. No denying he has the skill to step up and play in a 2nd line role but would never want him there as a permanent fixture. I still see him as more of a 3rd line center on a team that has 3 scoring lines. I still think Eller should be given more ice time with him but DD wouldn't be nearly as successful if he had Kostitsyn/Moen versus Cole/Pacioretty. Not only that he'd be getting 3-4 minutes a game less.

People need to factor in who he plays with, two of our best forwards. Who makes space for DD? Cole and Pacioretty. Who puts the puck in the net? Cole and Pacioretty. Put him with Moen/Kostitsyn, he won't be the same guy he is. At the end of the day I'm really happy for DD but anyone who thinks he's going to be a permanent top 2 center is dreaming imo. We tried signing Richards in the summer, obviously our management knows what a real top 2 centers looks like in Richards/Plekanec. Somehow Plekanec/Desharnais doesn't look like a real 1-2 punch.

I hope I'm wrong and he can continue developing, getting better and become a real 2nd line center I just have my doubts. I think Eller has all the tools and if he can pull a Pacioretty he'll no doubt be the 2nd line center we covet.
So, it is impossible that he got some vision and passing skills ?

He dominated at every levels he played BECAUSE of his wingers ?

Why do Pac and Cole love playing with him ?

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12-14-2011, 08:58 AM
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I care. I want the Habs to be an elite team. What do you want?
Inclined to agree here. I'd much rather give a guy like Eller who has high upside the chance on the 2nd line for 5-10 games. Obviously I wouldn't keep him there if he was playing poorly and DD kept playing well but Eller is the future and Desharnais is just another talented small forward. We have plenty of those and Gallagher in the pipes. I honestly think of all the small players we have Gallagher is going to be the most impressive once in the NHL.

Only time will tell I guess.

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12-14-2011, 09:00 AM
  #85
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I care. I want the Habs to be an elite team. What do you want?
We dont have elite forwards, but we sure have an Elite offensive D and an Elite goalie.

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12-14-2011, 09:01 AM
  #86
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I'll tell you this though, I would take Desharnais on his 850K contract and pure heart stle of play over Scott "now being out scored by Hal Gill" Gomez every second of the day
Yeah well that's our whole damn problem in a nutshell . We're so pleased that DD is better than Gomer. Jeezuz.That's what it's come to. God our centers suck bad if that is the case.

Not DD's fault of course. Of course I love DD, and I am pleased that he is doing well. But I want him to do well as our 3rd line C on our winning team, not as the second line center on our ***** team that has no centers.

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12-14-2011, 09:01 AM
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Agreed. Anyone who actually thinks DD is a competent 2nd line C is simply looking at the stat sheet only. His wingers make him a lot more productive than he is. No denying he has the skill to step up and play in a 2nd line role but would never want him there as a permanent fixture. I still see him as more of a 3rd line center on a team that has 3 scoring lines. I still think Eller should be given more ice time with him but DD wouldn't be nearly as successful if he had Kostitsyn/Moen versus Cole/Pacioretty. Not only that he'd be getting 3-4 minutes a game less.

People need to factor in who he plays with, two of our best forwards. Who makes space for DD? Cole and Pacioretty. Who puts the puck in the net? Cole and Pacioretty. Put him with Moen/Kostitsyn, he won't be the same guy he is. At the end of the day I'm really happy for DD but anyone who thinks he's going to be a permanent top 2 center is dreaming imo. We tried signing Richards in the summer, obviously our management knows what a real top 2 centers looks like in Richards/Plekanec. Somehow Plekanec/Desharnais doesn't look like a real 1-2 punch.

I hope I'm wrong and he can continue developing, getting better and become a real 2nd line center I just have my doubts. I think Eller has all the tools and if he can pull a Pacioretty he'll no doubt be the 2nd line center we covet.
Lolwut? Anyone who says that DD is a product of Cole and Patches just simply isn't watching the game. DD's the straw that stirs that drink. All Patches and Cole have to do is be in position. Half the time they whiff on the passes that DD sends right through the crease for them.

Also, he was producing at this same clip last year when playing with Moen, Pyatt, Darche et al. Not exactly star-studded company.

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12-14-2011, 09:03 AM
  #88
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Not convinced we gonna win anything with Pleks as a #1 center, either.
You add to my argument. Thank you. At least you seem to see how terrible we are at center.

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12-14-2011, 09:06 AM
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(I'll play along)

Or Nokelainen as fourth.
I'll play along too. All of them. And Gomer.

I love Price.
Our D is looking really good now and in 2 years.
Our wings are very good, and more good ones coming.
Our centers suck ****. End of. And not ONE in the pipeline except LL. Wow, another Carbo.That's geat, but He'll just replace Eller or DD or both, nothing else. We 're loaded with 3rd line centers. Wow!


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12-14-2011, 09:07 AM
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So, it is impossible that he got some vision and passing skills ?

He dominated at every levels he played BECAUSE of his wingers ?

Why do Pac and Cole love playing with him ?
Never said he didn't did I? All I said is that his wingers make him better not as much the other way around. He's a talented player but without wingers who have a talent and size he wouldn't be nearly as successful.

If you think he's a 2nd line center on a contender good for you, you can convince yourself of things that are false. Over here in the real world he's a 3rd line center playing above his head with talented wingers. Last I checked Cole is a consistent threat in his career and Pacioretty is a star young forward with size. Did I say he couldn't one day be a true 2nd line center? Never did, said it was unlikely. He has good passing skills and vision never denied that but he's small not very fast and is easily muscled off the puck. Not ideal for a 2nd line center who goes up against another teams top 6 opposition. Can he improve? Of course. I just don't see him being as effective without the insulation Cole and Pacioretty provide.

The point is on any true contender there would be better options barring Desharnais improving greatly in some areas. You make it sound like dominating in the junior/ahl means much and quite frankly it doesn't. Corey Locke dominated too, it's meaningless. Totally freaking meaningless. You think Locke's junior wingers didn't like playing with him too? Come on dude that argument is drivel.

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12-14-2011, 09:08 AM
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He's on pace for 45 points with good ice time and excellent wingers. Yeah, he's amazing. I love the kid but he's a good third line center on any serious team. Really.

The standards here are dropping off a cliff.

You seriously think Pleks and DD are gonna be 1-2 next year? Dream on. Habs are dead if that is the case.
Actually, he's on pace for more than that. Good math though.

Secondly, if you think that he won't improve, I don't know what to tell you. I guess all good players come into the league and are amazing automatically. How many teams have elite second line centres? Not many. Especially not *basically* rookies.

Standards aren't dropping off a cliff. Expectations are way too high for anything anymore. It's all about being elite and being big. Size, size, size.

Sweet, let's trade Plekanec for Fedoruk. That'll help. HE'S HUGE!!! WIN!!!

PS. Yes, I know Fedoruk isn't in the NHL.

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Agreed. Anyone who actually thinks DD is a competent 2nd line C is simply looking at the stat sheet only. His wingers make him a lot more productive than he is. No denying he has the skill to step up and play in a 2nd line role but would never want him there as a permanent fixture. I still see him as more of a 3rd line center on a team that has 3 scoring lines. I still think Eller should be given more ice time with him but DD wouldn't be nearly as successful if he had Kostitsyn/Moen versus Cole/Pacioretty. Not only that he'd be getting 3-4 minutes a game less.

People need to factor in who he plays with, two of our best forwards. Who makes space for DD? Cole and Pacioretty. Who puts the puck in the net? Cole and Pacioretty. Put him with Moen/Kostitsyn, he won't be the same guy he is. At the end of the day I'm really happy for DD but anyone who thinks he's going to be a permanent top 2 center is dreaming imo. We tried signing Richards in the summer, obviously our management knows what a real top 2 centers looks like in Richards/Plekanec. Somehow Plekanec/Desharnais doesn't look like a real 1-2 punch.

I hope I'm wrong and he can continue developing, getting better and become a real 2nd line center I just have my doubts. I think Eller has all the tools and if he can pull a Pacioretty he'll no doubt be the 2nd line center we covet.
People need to factor in what Cole was doing before Desharnais started playing with him. Cole was getting bashed everywhere, he's put with DD and suddenly he sparks. The chemistry is there.

DD produced other (worse) wingers last year. What's your excuse for that? Or are you going to just skip over that because it doesn't help your argument?

THIS IS HIS FIRST FULL YEAR!

What the hell are people expecting? 80 points?! He's going to be a good player for a very long time. 60-70 points isn't out of reach and I'm not joking.

I can guarantee Cole and Pacioretty don't want to play with anyone besides Desharnais right now. And Desharnais could have about 10-15 more points if Cole and Pacioretty converted even half of the other chances he's set up.

This is hockeysfuture and people are always in the "now, now, now" mindset. He's still a kid. He's going to get better. And better. And probably even better than that. And he's already pretty damn good.

DD is the least of our worries about being a contender. He's producing, winning faceoffs, a plus player, and playing well.

What about our wing? How are we a contender with Cammalleri and Gionta doing nothing? Gomez being an absolute waste of a roster spot?

PS. He's the best faceoff man on the team.

PPS. We were 1-goal away from beating the Stanley Cup Champions last year with Plekanec-Gomez. Guess what, DD>Gomez.


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12-14-2011, 09:08 AM
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You add to my argument. Thank you. At least you seem to see how terrible we are at center.
We are terrible since the last 15 years...

Remember Turgeon, Damphousse and Koivu ? ...

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12-14-2011, 09:08 AM
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I didn't think he would be able to do what he is doing. I'm happy to be wrong.

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12-14-2011, 09:09 AM
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Not convinced we'll ever win anything with him as a 2nd line center. I said it, sorry.
I don't get the obsession with the "can't win with player X as a # 1 / # 2 / # 3 centre". Where is it written that you need a gigantic 85 point Selke candidate to centre the second line if you want to win a championship?

Look no further than our last cup. # 2 centre was Stephan Lebeau, perhaps two inches taller but infinitely wimpier than Desharnais. Behind him was # 3 Paul DiPietro, also very much undersized. Yet we still won the Cup.

We have big players now, they just happen to play wing. What's the difference? Cole, Maxpac, Moen, Kostitsyn. All big guys. We can win with an elite goalie and a very good, deep defense that movees the puck well. Adding 6 inches to a # 2 centre doesn't get us any closer to the Cup.

Carolina won with a crappy defense. So did Tampa for that matter. Pittsburgh won with very thin depth on the wings. Philly made the finals with AHL goalies. Chicago won with Niemi. Boston's 1-2 punch of Krejci and Bergeron isn't exactly intimidating.

There is no recipe for winning. You can do it with a small 2nd line centre.

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12-14-2011, 09:12 AM
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Never said he didn't did I? All I said is that his wingers make him better not as much the other way around. He's a talented player but without wingers who have a talent and size he wouldn't be nearly as successful.

If you think he's a 2nd line center on a contender good for you, you can convince yourself of things that are false. Over here in the real world he's a 3rd line center playing above his head with talented wingers. Last I checked Cole is a consistent threat in his career and Pacioretty is a star young forward with size. Did I say he couldn't one day be a true 2nd line center? Never did, said it was unlikely. He has good passing skills and vision never denied that but he's small not very fast and is easily muscled off the puck. Not ideal for a 2nd line center who goes up against another teams top 6 opposition. Can he improve? Of course. I just don't see him being as effective without the insulation Cole and Pacioretty provide.

The point is on any true contender there would be better options barring Desharnais improving greatly in some areas. You make it sound like dominating in the junior/ahl means much and quite frankly it doesn't. Corey Locke dominated too, it's meaningless. Totally freaking meaningless. You think Locke's junior wingers didn't like playing with him too? Come on dude that argument is drivel.
That's the case of almost every NHL player that is not a star. They need their teamates to have some success.

DD is not a star and will never be. But, contrary to Locke, he will stay at NHL level. If not in Montreal - because we have so many small players in the line up and in the pipeline - surely somewhere else.

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12-14-2011, 09:16 AM
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Options ? I don't foresee any within the organisation.

Maybe time to package Cammy, Weber, + some prospect we have on the wing for THAT # 1 center ?
It's true, I've been whining and ranting about our centers for a month now. And I am not offering solutions. I would not get away with that at work!

The reason I'm pissed off is that I feel we are very close to contending the next three years, with just one productive big center. I have not seen the Habs this complete for a long time, and it's frustrating that the Gomer failure, and our failure with center drafting, may finally kill us just when we have everything else in the mix.

I have no problem with Eller or DD on the third line, both would be superb in that position on a contending team, especially with one more year of development.

But we've got to find that 1A/B 60 point center during our Price, Subban and Max window.

Yes. If I was PG I would consider giving up significant prospects at D and wing this summer for that center. I really would.

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12-14-2011, 09:16 AM
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I don't get the obsession with the "can't win with player X as a # 1 / # 2 / # 3 centre". Where is it written that you need a gigantic 85 point Selke candidate to centre the second line if you want to win a championship?

Look no further than our last cup. # 2 centre was Stephan Lebeau, perhaps two inches taller but infinitely wimpier than Desharnais. Behind him was # 3 Paul DiPietro, also very much undersized. Yet we still won the Cup.

We have big players now, they just happen to play wing. What's the difference? Cole, Maxpac, Moen, Kostitsyn. All big guys. We can win with an elite goalie and a very good, deep defense that movees the puck well. Adding 6 inches to a # 2 centre doesn't get us any closer to the Cup.

Carolina won with a crappy defense. So did Tampa for that matter. Pittsburgh won with very thin depth on the wings. Philly made the finals with AHL goalies. Chicago won with Niemi. Boston's 1-2 punch of Krejci and Bergeron isn't exactly intimidating.

There is no recipe for winning. You can do it with a small 2nd line centre.
I agree with your post to a certain extent but we are far from a Crosby-Malkin combo... Or Sedin-Kesler combo.

DiPietro was the 4t line center. Carbonneau was the third line center behind Muller and Lebeau. Denis Savard was injured, giving a chance to DiPietro to be in the line up.

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12-14-2011, 09:17 AM
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Feel free to pass me some crow. I was a D.D doubter at first but his remarkably consistent play all season has proven me wrong.

He looks to be a legit 2/3 NHL center.

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12-14-2011, 09:20 AM
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Lolwut? Anyone who says that DD is a product of Cole and Patches just simply isn't watching the game. DD's the straw that stirs that drink. All Patches and Cole have to do is be in position. Half the time they whiff on the passes that DD sends right through the crease for them.

Also, he was producing at this same clip last year when playing with Moen, Pyatt, Darche et al. Not exactly star-studded company.
Disagree. Having fast wingers with size actually opens up space for DD to be able to make those kinds of plays in the first place. Without them he lacks the speed and size and would be dominated. Half the time DD is in a position to pass in the first place cause of their work in the offensive zone anyways. If you think DD is gaining the zone making space for them etc all on his own you're crazy dude. That simply isn't the case.

Also half the time every scorer in the NHL misses a pass people feed them in the slot. You think that it's only Desharnais missing out on points cause his wingers miss out on a goal? That can be said for any center in the god damn league even Crosby. If it weren't for that every game would be 12-10. That's hardly a concrete argument. If anything the "lolwut" is for anyone who actually thinks this guy is the main reason his wingers are scoring. Pacioretty was putting up numbers with Gomez dude... Gomez... you think he can't with David freaking Desharnais who is better?

What about Cole, you know that guy who is scoring on the same pace he always has. You think it's a direct result of Desharnais? Really? It's more logical the guy who is a borderline rookie is making these guys produce than the guys who have proven they can produce without him? For real dude? You're kidding right? And the mere fact that you say what you say makes you sound like you haven't watched Erik Cole all year. Some of his goals he basically took them all the way up the ice burned the D and scored, but yeah... that's a direct result of Desharnais Nobody else on the team can make a pass in the defensive/neutral zone

I'm not saying he's bad but some people really need to get off his dick, he's good but not amazing.

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12-14-2011, 09:23 AM
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I guess you would call it chemistry because that's what DD has with a Cole and Max Pax. This is what I call a genuine line working, where on their own the guys wouldn't be that stellar but together the right elements makes it a producing combo. Especially Cole/DD. Cole is not the best scorer but grinds like Hell, DD can't get physical in any shape or form, he's like a toddler on the ice, but Cole creating room and DD's excellent passing ability results in goals.

I still think DD should be on the wings, though because of his size. Habs should think about trying Eller on the first two lines, he was stellar last night and only wants to play more. You could have DD-Eller-Cole and Max Pac-Plek-Andrei K.

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