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The 2011 Double-A Draft (sign-up, roster, picks, everything)

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Old
12-12-2011, 01:03 PM
  #76
seventieslord
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Saskatoon selects:

- Guy Charron, C, who had four 70+ point seasons for bad teams in the 1970s. Charron went to one all-star game and led his teams in points by margins of 28, 18, and 8 points. No available players have four 70 point seasons. Just six even have two right now. Charon also had two more 53+ point seasons in 1974 and 1975 as a LW. His six 50-point seasons are well ahead of other available guys as well. I see just five that have even four.None have five. Charron was one-dimensional but at the AA level he might be the premier offensive player.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Complete Handbook Of Pro Hockey 1975-1981 editions
smooth skater with good shot who can play any forward position... scouts are delighted with the deal that brought this swift skating center over... gave club much-needed experience at middle... biggest rap has been defensive play, but he denies it... most valuable KC player... succeeded ***** as team captain... overcame criticism that he was weak defensively... has gained wide respect...injured in first game of world championship but typical of attitude, asked to dress for final game just so he could be a cheerleader... exceptionally good team man... handles puck well and vastly improved defensive play, which used to be a weak point... only Capital to play all 80 games last season, despite starting with an ailing knee... slick, offensive catalyst, he has improved his checking but is not a defensive standout... absence was dearly felt on offense when he was injured... a polished playmaker with a sizzling shot... anticipation is his best weapon...
- Garth Boesch, D. Boesch's promising career was rudely interrupted by WW2. At age 25 he got to the NHL, spending four seasons there as a talented shot blocker, contributing to three Stanley Cups with the Leafs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by loh.net
When Garth Boesch joined the Notre Dame Hounds junior hockey team as a 17-year-old in 1937-38 it marked the start of his ascent to the NHL but also a major controversy of those times, which followed him throughout the balance of his hockey career. During his second season at Notre Dame Boesch decided to grow a moustache, which in those days was not strictly forbidden but highly frowned upon by most junior and professional teams. "I started growing it at 18," Boesch recalled. "It caused a lot of commotion at the time, but I felt it was my right. It was not effecting my playing ability and I liked the look." Boesch was the property of the NHL's New York Rangers in 1941. Rangers' GM Red Dutton was told of Boesch's facial hair and his refusal to shave it. "If that's the case then he's got two strikes against him before he even gets to training camp." Despite the tough talk from the Rangers Boesch kept the moustache. However, another obstacle arose when Boesch was denied entry into the U.S. from Canada in 1941 due to wartime travel restrictions. Boesch played in the minors for three years with Regina and Lethbridge and missed the 1943-44 season at the height of the War.

He returned to sporadic action in 1944-45 playing with the Winnipeg RCAF and was back playing hockey full-time the following season with the Pittsburgh Hornets. Boesch's rights had been transferred to the Toronto Maple Leafs in a special Dispersal Draft in 1943 and it was then that he finally got his shot to play in the NHL. With the moustache still plainly visible, Boesch suited up for 35 contests with the Leafs in 1946-47 scoring four goals and nine points.

Boesch played four seasons with Toronto and was a member of three Stanley Cup winning Leafs' teams in 1947, 1948 and 1949. He died of heart disease at the age of 77 on May 14, 1998.
Quote:
Originally Posted by attheplate.com
Four years with Toronto Maple Leafs. Three straight Stanley Cups in 1947,1948 and 1949 - the first team to do so. Two All-Star games in 1948 and 1949.

That was one heck of a career - albeit short - for Garth Boesch of Milestone, Sask.
Until his sudden retirement, Boesch was the unlikely defence mate of Bill Barilko because both players were right-handed shots. Boesch and Barilko were both excellent shot blockers and, when these blueliners dropped to their knees to smother a shot, the Toronto media dubbed them the 'Maginot Line Knee Drop', a clear reference to the recently-concluded world war.

But the Bashin' B's on the blueline were just not destined to blaze for long ...


Last edited by seventieslord: 12-22-2011 at 12:27 AM.
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Old
12-12-2011, 03:30 PM
  #77
VanIslander
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Engineers draft Herbert Russell, an earliest era great with a significant 5-year span.



First, he captained Ottawa to three OHA league championship seasons in 1891, 1892 and 1893, including a national championship AHAC title through most of 1892, beating the best Montreal teams four times and Quebec both times they played that season, losing only one game, the last one in March, a week before Lord Stanley of Preston announced the donation of a cup to be competed for. The Stanley Cup was designed to be held by future league champions, to prevent future great teams like Ottawa in 1892 from losing the title on a single loss at the end of the season, prompting a round robin format and an eventual three-game challenge series format.

Then, he was one of the top scorers in the AHAC in 1894 and 1895. He finished tied for 1st and 3rd in league scoring playing in the best league in the world with and against several all-time greats.

Quote:
1894 AHAC season scoring leaders:
Leading scorers Name Club GP G

Russell, Herbert Ottawa 8 10
Swift, Arthur E. Quebec 8 10
Routh, Haviland Montreal 8 8
Barlow, Billy Montreal 8 8
Rankin, Norman Victorias 5 6
Davidson, Shirley Victorias 8 6
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1894_AHAC_season

Quote:
1895 AHAC Season
Leading scorers Name Club GP G

Routh, Haviland Montreal 8 19
Rankin, Norman Victorias 8 11
Swift, Arthur E. Quebec 6 10
Russell, Herbert Ottawa 8 10
Robert MacDougall Victorias 8 10
Drinkwater, Graham Victorias 8 9
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1895_AHAC_Season

Herbert Russell retired in 1896 and yet stood tied for 8th 'all-time' in total goals as of 1899 with 22 career goals for Ottawa. Russell played for the Ottawa Hockey Club from 1890 until 1896, in at least 26 registered games, captaining it from 1891 through 1893, followed by two significant scoring seasons of 10 goals in eight games in each of 1894 and 1895. He left competitive hockey after the 1896 season but played one season of professional hockey in 1901–02 for the Pittsburgh Bankers of the Western Professional Hockey League.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Russell

Quote:
ALL TIME GOAL SCORING LIST AT THE END OF THE 1899 SEASON:
1. Bob McDougall (VICS) 49
2. A. E. "Dolly" Swift (Que) 37
3. Clary MacKerrow (MAAA) 34
4. Billy Barlow (MAAA) 33
5. Haviland Routh (MAAA) 32
6. Graham Drinkwater (Vics) 28
7. Shirley Davidson (VICS) 27
8. Alf Smith (Ott) 22
8. Herb Russell (OTT) 22
http://hfboards.com/archive/index.php/t-293965.html

Herbert Russell is listed as a forward most often but he is cited as a point in the lyrics of the song performed at the end of season dinner in 1892, suggesting he might have been point in the earlier years then forward during the following two good scoring seasons, which would explain why he suddenly was twice top-5 in league scoring.

Quote:
At coverpoint - important place
There's [Weldy] Young, a bulwark strong.
No dodging tricks or flying pace
Will baffle him for long.

At point we have the captain
And if he gets the puck
Will very near the goal he'll shoot
And get it too, with luck.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1891%E2...ey_Club_season


Last edited by VanIslander: 12-12-2011 at 05:40 PM.
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Old
12-12-2011, 03:47 PM
  #78
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Engineers draft Kris Letang, the offensive defenseman of eight winning playoff series, including two trips to the Stanley Cup Finals, and 13 points in a championship postseason in 2009. He has played in an all-star game, in 2011, during his best season in which he scored 50 points. He has demonstrated the ability to check well defensively as well as carry the puck offensively. He has had a top-3 blueline role on one of the best teams in hockey for over a three-year stretch of his not quite 5 year career. He has played in only 321 NHL regular season games but also 59 NHL playoff games. It is his relatively extensive playoff experience and success that makes him a worthy pick at this point.



Quote:
Is a silky smooth skater with tremendous lateral movement and acceleration. Can pinch in effectively, or roam around like a fourth forward. Owns a lot of creativity and goal-scorers' hands. Also owns leadership qualities and solid hitting skills.
http://forecaster.ca/hockeynews/hockey/player.cgi?5031


Last edited by VanIslander: 12-12-2011 at 04:04 PM.
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Old
12-12-2011, 03:53 PM
  #79
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Kris Letang? At this point, he's basically a one-season wonder (that season being 2010-11). Very solid the playoffs in the 2009 Cup win, though.

I don't know, maybe this thing has reached the point where a one-season Crosby-influenced wonder is actually a good pick.

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Old
12-12-2011, 04:30 PM
  #80
BenchBrawl
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The Wings select Joe Corvo and Bobby Ryan





Bobby Ryan: I was wondering if Bobby Ryan had enough of a career to pick him right now , but the guy has already 3 solid seasons on his resume , 3 consecutive 30 goal + seasons , 2 times top 10 in goals ( and 2 times top 10 ES goal including 3rd in the league ) , he's also 6-2 209 lbs.

Joe Corvo: is definitely one of the best offensive dman left , despite his reputation as an offensive only dman his plus and minuses are quite good , 40 pts seasons (3) , 30 pts seasons (5) , he scored 10 goals or more 4 times in his career and average 21:05 of ice time per game.He is ideal as a powerplay quarterback.


Last edited by BenchBrawl: 12-12-2011 at 04:39 PM.
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Old
12-12-2011, 04:39 PM
  #81
VanIslander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
Bobby Ryan
He hasn't played even 300 NHL games, which would have made him ineligible for MLD status in previous years but you guys decided that present day NHLers with under 300 games played might be worthy of MLD drafting. Well, we aren't even in the AAA, we're in the Double-A, so there's no point in having a 300-game minimum requirement here if you guys didn't want it for the MLD!!!

Ryan has done well his three full seasons of work, twice top-10 in goals, though he has just one solitary playoff series win under his belt.

It's a decent enough pick for this draft, like Letang, not much more than that.

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Old
12-12-2011, 04:42 PM
  #82
BenchBrawl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
He hasn't played even 300 NHL games, which would have made him ineligible for MLD status in previous years but you guys decided that present day NHLers with under 300 games played might be worthy of MLD drafting. Well, we aren't even in the AAA, we're in the Double-A, so there's no point in having a 300-game minimum requirement here if you guys didn't want it for the MLD!!!

Ryan has done well his three full seasons of work, twice top-10 in goals, though he has just one solitary playoff series win under his belt.

It's a decent enough pick for this draft, like Letang, not much more than that.
To be fair with me , I didn't participate a lot in those debate and didn't have a strong opinion on neither side , so when you say ''you guys'' I don't really feel concerned.

Top 10 in goal is beginning to get rare , 3 consecutive 30 goals season in present time is quite good.I didn't want to draft a lot of modern players but hey , I don't have the time I had for the other drafts and those players are looking quite good right now.

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Old
12-12-2011, 05:01 PM
  #83
VanIslander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenchBrawl View Post
Top 10 in goal is beginning to get rare , 3 consecutive 30 goals season in present time is quite good.
Indeed. A three-year peak and obvious talent, yet without playoff success or career length, makes him a Double-A draftee.

If a player had a 3-year peak, obvious talent, playoff success AND a long solid career they'd be a MLD or AAA pick for sure!

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Old
12-13-2011, 09:41 AM
  #84
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Michigan Wolverines selects:

Chuck Lefley, LW



and Jay Wells, D


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Old
12-13-2011, 11:00 AM
  #85
BenchBrawl
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HC Krylya Sovetov select:



Joe Cirella D: Cirella will bring physical play to our blue line and a lot of experience with 866 games played ( including playoff ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by joepelletier
Cirella offered a big and strong presence in front of his own net and in the corners. He was not afraid to hit hard or to do the dirty work. He was certainly no heavyweight, but he was known to drop the gloves a few times each season.

As he matured he learned to play within his limitations and offer solid minutes of play.Skating forward was a strength for Cirella. He had a strong burst of speed off his first couple of strides, and caught the opposition by surprise by carrying the puck out of the New Jersey zone to relieve the pressure.

Most of his offense came from point shots from the blue line, though once in a while he would surprise everyone by jumping into the slot for a one timer.Joe Cirella was a solid NHL depth defenseman for many years


David Krejci C:Krejci will bring good two-way play and playmaking abilities to our second line.He had 3 decent offensive seasons and led the playoff in both points and goals during the Boston Bruins run last year averaging over 20 minutes of ice-time.In 08-09 , he led the league in plus and minuses with a great +37.

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Old
12-13-2011, 11:29 AM
  #86
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LW Jean-Guy Gendron and D Aaron Miller



x1 Top 10 Goals (10th in '60)

20 goals five times, two-way player, and former captain
383 points in 863 NHL GP

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoH
Left-winger Jean-Guy Gendron played nearly 900 NHL games for five different clubs between 1955 and 1972. He was a fine goal scorer who embraced defensive responsibilities if that kept him in the line up. The hard working forward also toiled in the WHA and was a solid AHL competitor.

The Montreal native played junior with the Trois Rivieres Reds before making his pro debut with the AHL's Providence Reds in 1954-55. The following season he was a steady role player in 63 games as a rookie with the New York Rangers. Gendron filled a utility role with the Blueshirts for two more years before he was claimed by the Boston Bruins in the Intra-League Draft in June, 1956.

Gendron was given more offensive responsibilities in Beantown and set a career high with 24 goals in 1959-60 while playing with Jerry Toppazzini and Charlie Burns. He also spent part of a season with the Montreal Canadiens and the 1961-62 schedule back in New York. In 1962 Gendron returned to Boston for a couple of years before he was relegated to the AHL. He returned to the NHL in 1967 after his Quebec Aces club was purchased by the expansion Philadelphia Flyers. Gendron provided leadership and three straight 20-goal performances for his new club before joining the Quebec Nordiques of the newly founded WHA in 1972-73. He played a checking role for two year in the provincial capital before retiring in 1974.


677GP
19:57 TOI per game
21:27 TOI per playoff game (80GP)
Only 422 career PIM for "rugged" style

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoH
In January 1991, the young rearguard was sent to the Quebec Nordiques as part of the package for veteran Joe Cirella. Miller spent the majority of his first three pro seasons learning the ropes with the AHL's Cornwall Aces. He looked solid in 56 games as a rookie with the Colorado Avalanche in 1996-97 and helped the team reach the Western Conference final.

Miller's solid play helped Colorado stay among the NHL's elite and maintain its stellar goals against record. In March 2001, the Los Angeles Kings insisted that he be included in the deal that sent all-star Rob Blake to the Avalanche. A rugged stay-at-home defenceman by nature, Miller has been hampered by injuries since his arrival with the Kings. However, in 2004 the former UVM star defenseman helped the United States capture the bronze medal at the World Championships in Prague, Czech Republic.

In the 2006-07 season, Miller made a healthy return to the Kings line-up and appeared in all 82 games of the club's regular season. In the summer of 2007, Miller's stint would come to an end after the Vancouver Canucks signed him as a free agent.

Aside from his World Championship appearance in 2004, Miller returned to the Worlds in 2005 and has gone on to represent his homeland at the World Junior Championships (1991), the Winter Olympics (2002) and the World Cup of Hockey (2004).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadsen Times 12-23-2001
Miller and Housley drew high praise from (Herb) Brooks...Brooks added Miller "grows on you." "He's not going to blow you out of your seat, but he has very, very good mobility. He skates very well and he's smart."
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...r+hockey&hl=en

In an article announcing the Kings' alternate captains for the year:
Quote:
Miller, 35, is in his sixth season in Los Angeles and 13th in the NHL, having previously played for Colorado/Quebec. While with the Kings, he has won several awards, including being named the club’s Unsung Hero (as voted by the Kings players) and Outstanding Defenseman and Best Defensive Player.
http://www.hockeyfights.com/news/37896

Quote:
Originally Posted by USA Today profile of 2004 US World Cup Roster
Aaron Miller, 33, Los Angeles Kings: A dependable stay-at-home defender and great team guy.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...cup-team_x.htm


Last edited by Rob Scuderi: 12-22-2011 at 06:40 PM.
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Old
12-13-2011, 01:40 PM
  #87
tony d
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Left Winger Brent Ashton



Some stats on Ashton:

- 629 points in 998 games
- 3 30 Goal Seasons
- 4 Seasons of 60 or more points

For more on Ashton click the following link:

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=10039

Defenseman Brian Benning:



Some stats on Benning:

-296 Points in 568 Games
-7 20 or more Assists Seasons
-Member of the 1987 All-Rookie Team

For more on Benning click the following link:

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=10092

__________________

Last edited by tony d: 12-13-2011 at 01:51 PM.
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Old
12-13-2011, 06:30 PM
  #88
VanIslander
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Engineers draft Eddie Wares, a right winger who played some defense who had five significant seasons and one decent playoffs, renowned for his clutch play in Detroit. Wares was 4th in team goals his first two seasons (1937-39), going on to be 3rd in team points his career year of 1941-42 (6th in NHL assists), the middle of two double digit goal scoring regular seasons that saw Wares during this 3-year peak on the Liminent Line (with Grosso and Abel) score 94 points, ending with a 6 point 1943 Stanley Cup championship postseason before he joined the war effort.



Quote:
Wares was an instrumental force with the Detroit Red Wings
http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=14638

Quote:
The sixth-year right-winger posted a career high with 38 points in 1941-42 and as Detroit raced to a 3-0 lead in its Stanley Cup final series with Toronto, Wares played a large part, setting up the winning goal in Detroit's 3-2 Game 2 victory.

He also played a huge role in the turnaround which saw Toronto win the last four games of the series to take the title. The Leafs were leading 4-3 late in Game 4 when Wares mouthed off to referee Mel Harwood. Harwood, insisting Wares used profanity, assessed the Detroit player a 10-minute misconduct. Denying the charge, Wares refused to go to the penalty box, standing instead by the Detroit bench.

Harwood assessed Detroit a bench minor and ordered forward Don Grosso to serve it. In protest, Grosso laid his stick and gloves at Harwood's feet.

When the game concluded, Grosso, Wares and Detroit manager Jack Adams beat a path towards Harwood and a brawl ensued.

Wares and Grosso were fined $100 each for their actions and Adams was suspended for the remainder of the post-season.

"I never said a thing to (Harwood)," Wares complained. "He said, "You've got yourself a misconduct." I asked, "What for?" and he said, "You don't know what for?"

"He never did tell me. That's why I refused to leave the ice."

It was a black mark on an otherwise solid career for Wares, a talented athlete who performed on Canada's schoolboy track and field team, winning the shot put competition at the 1934 British Empire Scholastic Games in Australia.

Wares was an instant hit with he arrived in Detroit during the 1937-38 season, scoring six goals and two assists in his first eight games. "Every once in a while, hockey produces one of those scoring opportunists, the kind that has a happy faculty for ringing the old gong just when a goal is needed," Adams said. "Wares is one of those birds."

Wares joined the Canadian Navy after the 1942-43 season and never played again for the Wings. His contract was sold to Chicago in 1945 and he spent two seasons with the Blackhawks, leaving the NHL for good in 1947.

TOTALS WITH RED WINGS:
GP-214, G-50, A-84, PTS-134

HONORS:
Played for Detroit's 1942-43 Stanley Cup championship team
http://redwings.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=43814

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Old
12-13-2011, 07:40 PM
  #89
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Engineers draft Irek Gimayev, a Soviet defenseman who saw time on some forward lines for the national team in a depth utility role, playing in 93 games for Team USSR between 1979-1985. He was a mainstay of the Red Army team for nearly a decade, in 356 games as a defenseman. Yet internationally he debuted on Makarov's line in the 1979 Challenge Cup against the NHL's best, and he "sparkled" along with his linemates, assisting on a goal in the Soviet triumph. He was on the ill fated 1980 Olympics squad but participated in redemption by contributing an assist and a couple of penalties in the 1981 Canada Cup victory. At the 1982 World Championships he also assisted on Zhluktov's goal in a Soviet win over USA, then later in the tourney scoring the second period 2-1 go-ahead goal against Canada in a 4-3 Soviet win (Canada had talent, with Barber, Reinhart and Propp scoring and Gretzky assisting in the game). Gimayev also scored a goal in the 1984 Canada Cup and took some more penalties. His last game for the national team was the 1985 world championships, ending a six-year stretch in a supporting, utility depth role on the dominant Soviet team. He did some rough stuff, got into the scoring only occasionally (which is a bit of an accomplishment because he had only 40 career goals in the Soviet league, was obviously not on the national team for his scoring!!), played on various forward lines despite being a trained and developed defenseman, he and Kravchuk considered to be Ufa's all-time best pilfered from the local club team to play for the Red Army squad.



Quote:
Then, Irek Gimaev and Tim Thomas punched each other out, Gimaev ripping the US flag off Thomas' sweater.
http://books.google.com/books?id=0h7...ed=0CCgQ6AEwAQ

Quote:
Irek Gimaev was given minor and misconduct penalties for spearing Kirk Muller.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...k+gimaev&hl=en


Sources:
http://forums.internationalhockey.ne...2-IHWC-Finland
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group.../message/41141
http://icehockey.wikia.com/wiki/Irek_Gimayev
http://books.google.com/books?id=0h7...ed=0CCgQ6AEwAQ
http://www.google.com/search?q=irek+...a368afbc2e5567
http://books.google.com/books?id=0h7...ed=0CC0Q6AEwAg

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Old
12-13-2011, 09:58 PM
  #90
seventieslord
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Evgeny Groshev, C


Apparently, one of these players is Groshev...

- World Championship Silver (1959)
- Olympic Bronze (1960)
- Russian League Champion (1957)
- Russian League Leading Scorer (1962)
- Russian League All-Star (1959, 1960, 1962)
- Was Also 7th in scoring in 1964
- 10 goals, 18 points in 15 international contests
- 236 goals in 450 Soviet League Games
- 6th in 1959 Worlds in scoring, led Russia with 10 points, no one else had more than 5
- 35th highest all-time Russian Scorer; in the Bobrov Club

Rn. Player Nat Team Euro Cups National Championships National Clubs transcontinental Total
*1 Boris Mikhailov 203 25 428 34 6 696
*2 Vladimir Petrov 189 32 370 15 4 610
*3 Vyacheslav Starshinov 149 2 406 28 - 585
*4 Sergey Makarov 190 59 322 5 - 576
*5 Aleksander Maltsev 212 - 329 16 1 558
*6 Valery Kharlamov 193 24 293 21 7 538
*7 Aleksander Yakushev 145 2 339 25 2 513
*8 Anatoly Firsov 134 14 345 12 4 509
*9 Veniamin Aleksandrov 117 - 351 22 - 490
10 Vladimir Krutov 152 34 288 6 - 480
11 Aleksandr Guryshev 70 - 379 30 - 479
12 Vladimir Vikulov 109 13 283 39 6 450
13 Helmut Balderis 72 3 333 19 - 427
14 Sergey Kapustin 118 5 278 12 - 413
15 Vsevolod Bobrov 94 - 254 31 - 379
16 Viktor Shalimov 66 3 293 17 - 379
17 Nikolay Drozdetsky 64 34 253 11 - 362
18 Andrey Khomutov 101 43 197 2 - 343
19 Vyacheslav Bykov 101 28 195 3 - 327
20 Boris Majorov 63 - 255 8 - 326
21 Igor Larionov 80 19 204 7 - 310
22 Konstantin Loktev 84 - 213 8 - 305
23 Aleksander Almetov 78 - 212 15 - 305
24 Vladimir Shadrin 71 4 214 13 2 304
25 Viktor Zhluktov 78 13 197 8 - 296
26 ******* ********* 3 - 263 26 - 292
27 Alexaner Skvortsov 41 - 244 7 - 292
28 Viktor Shuvalov 40 - 222 21 - 283
29 Vyacheslav Fetisov 96 28 153 5 - 282
30 ********* *********** 28 1 243 7 - 279
31 Alexander Golikov 42 - 225 8 - 275
32 ******** ******** 26 - 239 9 - 274
33 ******** *********** 17 - 252 4 - 273
34 Alexander Martynyuk 24 2 212 26 - 264
35 Yevgeny Groshev 12 - 236 15 - 263

He had three 1 st all-star teams, no one else available had two
He had a habit of being selected for the all-star teams despite not having the scoring stats of some other players
He had a soviet scoring title by a margin of victory of 27% over a bonafide ATDer
When he did play internationally he performed very well
His long term sustained production is similar enough to well-known players to make a reasonable judgment as to where he slots in.

Tommy Williams, F



Williams started his career with an excellent 1960 Olympic tournament, scoring 10 points in 7 games en route to gold. He then went to the NHL, where he played all three forward positions and posted 5 seasons with a percentage score of 47% or higher, topping out at 86% in 1970 when he was 15th in points. Williams then went to the WHA, scoring a respectable 89 points in 139 games in two seasons, taking home an AVCO cup, more than doubling his regular season scoring with a 17-point playoff. Williams came back to the NHL, posting one more strong offensive season with the expansion Washington Capitals - 58 points in 73 games, 23 more than any other player. Williams finished with 519 pro points in 802 games, and 27 more in 29 playoff games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Complete handbook Of Pro Hockey, 1975 and 1976 editions
every team should have a Tommy Williams... Wily individiual who has played a few games in his day, all but 31 of the 695 since the fall of 1961 in the major leagues... a smooth, natural skater and a cunning playmaker... give him a couple of reasonably intelligent, hard skating wingers, and he'll give Washington a productive line...

if it weren't for him, Caps' season would have been even worse...


Last edited by seventieslord: 12-22-2011 at 12:40 AM.
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12-14-2011, 07:41 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Evgeny Groshev, C
Three years and only 25 games on the national team, scoring no goals ever against Czechoslovakia nor Sweden, just one against Canada and a total of ten internationally in all for a career center. Does he have intangibles? Was he defensive? Or... was he the domestic league scorer who couldn't cut it on the national team he seems to be? Hundreds of players are talked about in Lawrence Martin's The Red Machine and Tarosov's Road to Olympus but not a single mention of the short term national team center whose only claim to historical mention is one statistically superior domestic regular season in goals scored and two other all-star seasons, all three in the domestic league.

BTW, Nikolai Makarov would be a half-decent pick at this point, or some time soon. Players whose resume relies on domestic European league play without international success, or even tenure during their nation's greatest era for international level of play is just... so B draft material!

I appreciate the heck out of so many Soviets... but Groshev? .. I must be missing something... or else you value domestic European league scoring in the late 50s/early 60s much higher than I do!! Which is it?

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12-14-2011, 09:16 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Three years and only 25 games on the national team, scoring no goals ever against Czechoslovakia nor Sweden, just one against Canada and a total of ten internationally in all for a career center. Does he have intangibles? Was he defensive? Or... was he the domestic league scorer who couldn't cut it on the national team he seems to be? Hundreds of players are talked about in Lawrence Martin's The Red Machine and Tarosov's Road to Olympus but not a single mention of the short term national team center whose only claim to historical mention is one statistically superior domestic regular season in goals scored and two other all-star seasons, all three in the domestic league.

BTW, Nikolai Makarov would be a half-decent pick at this point, or some time soon. Players whose resume relies on domestic European league play without international success, or even tenure during their nation's greatest era for international level of play is just... so B draft material!

I appreciate the heck out of so many Soviets... but Groshev? .. I must be missing something... or else you value domestic European league scoring in the late 50s/early 60s much higher than I do!! Which is it?
Best scorer once and russian all-star 3 times and inducted in russian HOF. I agree with you though. I want to know more about Grochev.

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12-14-2011, 11:01 AM
  #93
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Pittsburgh selects RW Kristian Huselius and C Mike Zuke.



451 points in 662 NHL GP
x3 40 assists
x1 30 goals
x6 20 goals



Quote:
Originally Posted by LoH
Zuke played for his hometown Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds of the NOJHA earning First Team All-star recognition in 1972 before attending Michigan Tech where he again earned All Star berths in 1974, 1975, and 1976.

He was selected by the Indianapolis Racers in the 1974 WHA draft and was also selected by the St. Louis Blues in the 1974 NHL draft. He turned pro with Indianapolis during the 1976-77 season and was traded to the Edmonton Oilers prior to the start of the following season.

The lanky centreman signed with St. Louis prior to the beginning of the 1978-79 season and played with the Blues for five seasons where his scrappy play made him a fan favourite. He also saw time on both the power play and penalty killing units while with the Blues.

Hartford claimed him in the 1983 waiver draft and finished his NHL career with the Whalers in 1985-86 after the better part of three seasons with the club.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seventieslord
Jeez, has anyone here even heard of this guy? He sure was a good player for a few seasons. In 80, 81, 82 with St. Louis, he scored 185 points in 219 games. The downside? The rest of his career in the NHL is just 236 games long and contains 97 points. (he also played 2 WHA seasons, scoring 57 points in 1978)

Zuke was a noted defensive player, placing 10th in Selke voting in 1981. Scouting reports also confirm his excellent two-way play. He was a true special teams specialist, scoring a measly 0.32 adjusted ESPPG but 0.22 more on the PP, as well as killing 37% of his team's penalties, for teams 7% better than average on the PK.

Biggest downfall for Zuke? His short career in the NHL. He played a full college career, so he was 23 when he became a full-time WHA player and 24 when he got to the NHL, but they made him have a CHL apprenticeship too. He was a college star too, making the WCHA all-star team in 1974, 1975, and 1976, scoring 310 points in 163 college games.


Last edited by Rob Scuderi: 12-15-2011 at 04:52 PM.
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12-14-2011, 11:03 AM
  #94
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Napier went in an earlier draft.

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12-14-2011, 11:03 AM
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Garnish selects Right Winger Trent Klatt and head coach Arne Stromberg.

Klatt:



Much like Sundstrom Klatt played a good 2 way game during his NHL career. During his time in Vancouver he was the right winger on the Sedin line. Klatt had 343 points in 782 career games

For more on Klatt click the following link:

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=10800

Head Coach Arne Stromberg:



Stromberg is credited with bringing Swedish hockey to the next level, he has 8 Swedish league titles and was the Swedish team national coach from 1961-1971.


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12-14-2011, 11:12 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Napier went in an earlier draft.
Thanks, I totally missed that.

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12-14-2011, 01:18 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Garnish selects Right Winger Niklas Sundstrom and head coach Arne Stromberg.

Sundstrom:



Sundstrom is a good 2 way forward who is known more for his defensive game but with 349 points in 750 games he provided a good offensive game.

For more on Sundstrom click the following link:

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=14905

Head Coach Arne Stromberg:



Stromberg is credited with bringing Swedish hockey to the next level, he has 8 Swedish league titles and was the Swedish team national coach from 1961-1971.
327. markrander87 & Stoneberg - Halifax Sleepwatchers - Niklas Sundstrom, RW/LW

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12-14-2011, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Three years and only 25 games on the national team, scoring no goals ever against Czechoslovakia nor Sweden, just one against Canada and a total of ten internationally in all for a career center. Does he have intangibles? Was he defensive? Or... was he the domestic league scorer who couldn't cut it on the national team he seems to be? Hundreds of players are talked about in Lawrence Martin's The Red Machine and Tarosov's Road to Olympus but not a single mention of the short term national team center whose only claim to historical mention is one statistically superior domestic regular season in goals scored and two other all-star seasons, all three in the domestic league.

BTW, Nikolai Makarov would be a half-decent pick at this point, or some time soon. Players whose resume relies on domestic European league play without international success, or even tenure during their nation's greatest era for international level of play is just... so B draft material!

I appreciate the heck out of so many Soviets... but Groshev? .. I must be missing something... or else you value domestic European league scoring in the late 50s/early 60s much higher than I do!! Which is it?
Groshev played in 15 international games that mattered, scoring 18 points. In 1959 he scored 10 points in 8 games, tying for 6 th in the tournament. Red Berenson, Josef Golonka, Tommy Williams, and Jaroslav Jirik (known quantities) scored between 8 and 13 points themselves. Groshev is listed as USSR’s points leader, but at 6-4-10 all that is certain is that he was their goals leader, since he’s the only Soviet forward with assists listed. (he most likely was the point leader though). In 1960 he had 8 points in 7 games, tied for 4 th on the team. The only guy with more than 9 points on the soviets was Alexandrov with 13. The exploits of the Alexandrov line in the 1955-1970 range (the exact range in which Groshev’s career occurred) are well-recognized by this point, and Groshev was some degree below them, just as Earl Ingarfield was some degree below Dave Keon. Don’t be so fast to just pigeonhole a player into a caliber of draft due to one perceived flaw.

I’m not really concerned with what happened in the other international games you speak of – should I be? The level of competition is not anywhere close to a sure thing, as opposed to the IIHF events like the Olympics and the Worlds.

Groshev is a 3-time First team all-star in the Soviet league (1959, 1960, 1962). There was no available player who had done this even twice. Just six one-timers, all from the 1958-1963 era, now remain. (plus a few 80s goalies and two post-1990 players)

I can’t tell you much about him as a player, but I can tell you that in 1959, the first team all-star forwards were Loktev (2 nd in scoring), Mayorov (3 rd in scoring), and Groshev (not sure, but he is not listed in the top-10 in scoring). What did he do right to get the all-star spot over already drafted players Viktor Yakushev (1 st ), Stanislav Petukhov (5 th ), and the rest of the guys in the top-10?

In 1960 again, Groshev was not among the top scorers listed (top-6), but he was a 1 st team all-star.

In 1962, Groshev not only led the league in scoring, but was 8 ahead of 2 nd place Boris Mayorov (who led Starshinov and Almetov), who was only three goals ahead of 10 th . Let me repeat: Groshev was 8 goals ahead ahead of 2 nd place, and 2 nd was just three ahead of 10 th . As far as scoring was concerned, it was really just Groshev and everyone else that year.

Groshev scored 236 goals in 450 USSR league games for an average of 0.52 per game. Konstantin Loktev, considered a bonafide ATDer, scored 0.63 per game, in 110 fewer games, with far superior linemates, in a career that both started and ended a few years earlier, meaning he faced slightly lesser competition domestically. Who was the more offensively talented player? Let’s pretend the other factors don’t matter and simply look at raw GPG. Groshev scored at 84% Loktev’s rate. You tell me, where do most players who score at a rate of 84% of a bonafide ATDer get selected? Starshinov’s average was 0.75 per game domestically, meaning Groshev scored at about 69% his rate. You tell me – where do most players who score at a rate of 69% of a bonafide ATD second liner get selected?

I know that is boiling it down rather simply, but I also ignored points that work in Groshev’s favour (linemates, era, more GP). There is far more than enough here to ignore his relative lack of an international resume and consider him intriguing enough.

To recap:
He had three 1 st all-star teams, no one else available had two
He had a habit of being selected for the all-star teams despite not having the scoring stats of some other players
He had a soviet scoring title by a margin of victory of 27% over a bonafide ATDer
When he did play internationally he performed very well
His long term sustained production is similar enough to well-known players to make a reasonable judgment as to where he slots in.

As for Makarov… why snipe at me now over this? I would address your points but I addressed them all very well back in the AAA and received nary a response from you – AS USUAL

Both The Red Machine and Road To Olympus are excellent books that document the soviet history and systems rather well, but don’t try to tell someone who has read them both, that they are excellent resources on individual players. They aren’t anything close to that. There are fleeting references to perhaps 100 players, most of whom are mentioned once and never again.

All this from a guy who just drafted a Czech with a whopping 15 points in 45 legitimate international games and absolutely no accolades associated with him. Are we supposed to believe that he’s a good pick because he played in 43 international games (which, if you take a look at all the available Soviets, Czechs, Swedes and Finns from the 70s and 80s, is a relatively small number)?*

I am all for drafting a good, fair number of international players from the 50s, right up to 1990, and perhaps even a couple isolated cases before and after those points. Comparing these types of players to the “main pool” of players (NHLers) is not an exact science, though we do our best (seemingly we start from the fact that we think Kharlamov was a potential NHL superstar, Mikhailov, Maltsev, Yakushev and Petrov stars, and the rest below them to relative degrees). I think we have generally done an ok job. I can’t say for sure that a guy like Augusta wasn’t just as good as the number of mediocre NHL scoring forwards being taken at this time. No one can for sure. But I can say that it is not the least bit difficult to find three dozen undrafted European forwards from this period with more impressive resumes (domestic and international). For that reason I don’t see the point in that selection. If one is going to draft a European player at any time, one should make the effort to ensure that European player is one of the very best available, and not just “some player” – Much like you have been doing with your early era picks. You have been clearly demonstrating with easy to understand cases, why they are the “next best” player from that era worthy of selection. I like that.

*(Novak’s 23 points in 40 games are nothing to write home about either, but at least he has that intriguingly high goal per game average)

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12-14-2011, 02:11 PM
  #99
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Thanks for pointing out Sundstrom was gone, I'll be back later with a new pick.


Last edited by tony d: 12-14-2011 at 05:08 PM. Reason: New pick now made.
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12-14-2011, 04:23 PM
  #100
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The Engineers Draft:

LW Miroslav Vlach



1961 World Championship All-Star Team
1961 World Championship Silver Medal
1963 World Championship Best Forward
1963 World Championship All-Star Team
1963 World Championship Bronze Medal
1964 Olympic Bronze Medal

Calgary Herald, Dec. 14, 1963:
“Vlach is rated by many observers as the fastest skater in European Hockey”

The Montreal Gazette, Dec. 14, 1963:
“The Canadian team is also paying attention to left winger Miroslav Vlach, whom Father Bauer said is the Czech’s best forward.


From "Rabidly enthusiastic Czechs jammed every available seat to see the Canadians win the amateur championship of the world"
Milt Dunnell
Sports Illustrated
March 23, 1959
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...33/4/index.htm

Quote:
But the Canadians were anxious to preserve their unbeaten record. Trailing 4-3 with two minutes remaining, Coach Ike Hildebrand gambled for a tie by lifting his goalie in favor of a sixth attacker. From a face-off in the Czech zone the puck skidded out to Miroslav Vlach, a rugged Czech forward who had been in Canada 's hair all day. Vlach pushed the disc slowly in the direction of the Canadian goal while fans all over the nation held their breath. The puck finally reached and entered the empty cage, and the joyous Czechs danced with glee. The extra goal gave Czechoslovakia third place in the standings, ahead of the U.S. Russia was second and thereby gained the European title.
D/LW Wilf Loughlin

1921 PCHA Second Team All-Star
2nd(1921) in defence scoring*
2nd(1922) in defence scoring*
4th(1920) in defence scoring*
5th(1919) in defence scoring*

* = I'm not sure how much he played LW in these seasons

Legends of Hockey:
Quote:
Wilf Loughlin was a versatile player who could function at defence and left-wing. He played 14 games for the Toronto St. Pats in 1923-24 but was better known in western Canada as a reliable worker in the PCHA and WCHL/WHL.

The younger brother of well known defenceman Clem Loughlin played senior hockey in Winnipeg with the Monarchs and Vimy squads. Beginning in 1918-19 he spent five years with the PCHA's Victoria Cougars where he provided an important mix of offense and defence.

In October, 1923, Loughlin was traded to the St. Pats for cash and played a utility role in 14 matches for his new club.

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