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Old
12-14-2011, 02:04 PM
  #26
KingsFan7824
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Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
When are we gonna stop with this? Who was the last big name free agent to sign with ANY west coast team? It's not happening and it's never going to happen. The sooner we accept this the better. Seriously.
I didn't even think the Kings could get a Gagne level FA. We find out it's for $7 million over 2 years, and then it makes sense. As much as I would take guys like Mitchell and Scuderi on my team any day, it's almost $7 million a year between the two of them. It cost $4 million per year for Handzus.

The Kings need to overpay the role player free agent, let alone what they would need to offer the star free agent(that would have to be substantially more money than some other teams). Complementary players, role players, reclamation projects, these are the guys the Kings can sign, and like I said, they still have to end up overpaying them.

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Old
12-14-2011, 02:04 PM
  #27
Johnny Utah
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Jochen Hecht (C) - Is he any good still?
Travis Moen (W) - I always liked him.
Brandon Prust (C/W) - Probably not because of Clifford/Westgarth.
Paul Gaustad (C) - Has turned into a giant vagina.
Chris Kelly (C/W) - Having a great year
David Moss (W) 1 goal in 15 games?
Jordin Tootoo (W) - Would be good.
Adam Burish (C/W) - Similar to Fraser.
Dominic Moore (C) - Moves around quite a bit. 2 goals in 30 games?
Greg Campbell (C/W) - Similar to Clifford/Fraser
Taylor Pyatt (W) - Probably stays in Phoenix.
Dan Carcillo (W) - Awful this year.
Frans Nielsen (C) 4 goals, 8 assists, not bad.

Mike Knuble? David Jones?

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Old
12-14-2011, 02:42 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Does Parise have a brother that we can sign to an NHL contract?
No, but Kopitar does!

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Old
12-14-2011, 02:43 PM
  #29
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Before we decide who stays and who goes, who is untouchable and who is not, why don't we wait until Darryl Sutter has a chance to check everybody out himself. He has a way of making everybody better and in our case the ones we truly need to make better are Brown, Doughty, Williams and Penner. I believe that all 4 will be better under Sutter. The one who will thrive the most is Richards, the perfect Sutter player. My only concern is Penner. If Sutter can't get him going, then nobody can.

I do believe that Dean should do everything he can to get Parise to come here. While we have been snake bitten in the past, I feel that Parise will be the one we get. Of course I thought that before. So who knows.

As far as I am concerned all that matters at this time, is getting this team as it is right now, back to playing like we know they can and are capable of. All the rest will come into place after that.

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Old
12-14-2011, 04:23 PM
  #30
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#1 need: creativity in the offensive zone.

Hopefully, new coach _____tbd______ can help this happen.

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Old
12-14-2011, 04:51 PM
  #31
Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR28 View Post
My only concern is Penner. If Sutter can't get him going, then nobody can.
The only one who couldn't get him going was Murray. Penner scored for everyone else. I think Penner will do well under Sutter, it doesn't sound like Sutter plays games with anyone, he just tells it like it is.

I'm encouraged with the former player comments about Sutter. It is rare that a hard ass gets praise from former players. It sounds like the Flames are worried about the Kings more with Sutter behind the bench.

Unless I'm mistaken, I don't remember Murray getting praise from former NHL players. Does anyone have links with player quotes from when Murray was annnouced as the Kings new coach?

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Old
12-14-2011, 07:07 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Does Parise have a brother that we can sign to an NHL contract?
http://theahl.com/stats/player.php?id=1497

After the Niedermayer thing, the Devils seemingly have gone out of their way to get a bunch of siblings onto the AHL club. Jordan Parise, Stephen Gionta, Mike Pandolfo, Darcy Zajac....

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Old
12-14-2011, 07:27 PM
  #33
JR28
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[QUOTE=Sydor25;40948279]The only one who couldn't get him going was Murray. Penner scored for everyone else. I think Penner will do well under Sutter, it doesn't sound like Sutter plays games with anyone, he just tells it like it is./QUOTE]

I believe that Penner needs a hard ass for a coach to get him going. Someone that will be on his case. Pat Quinn did this and I gather that so did Randy Carlyle. Terry Murray is not that type of coach. That is why I think Penner will do well under Darryl.

BTW how do you get part of a quote to show up, not like how it shows up above?

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Old
12-14-2011, 08:23 PM
  #34
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No such thing as a core.

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Old
12-14-2011, 08:33 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR28 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
The only one who couldn't get him going was Murray. Penner scored for everyone else. I think Penner will do well under Sutter, it doesn't sound like Sutter plays games with anyone, he just tells it like it is./QUOTE]

I believe that Penner needs a hard ass for a coach to get him going. Someone that will be on his case. Pat Quinn did this and I gather that so did Randy Carlyle. Terry Murray is not that type of coach. That is why I think Penner will do well under Darryl.

BTW how do you get part of a quote to show up, not like how it shows up above?
You deleted the "[" before the "/quote]".

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Old
12-14-2011, 08:40 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by markisonfire View Post
At the very least:

xxx - Kopitar - xxx
xxx - Richards - xxx
xxx - xxx - xxx
xxx - xxx - xxx

Mitchell - Doughty
Johnson - Scuderi
Voynov - xxx

Quick
Bernier
That's probably 70% of your salary cap budget in 9 players and you don't have ANY wingers - that's pretty pathetic for 5+ seasons of building "the right way"

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Old
12-14-2011, 08:50 PM
  #37
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Our core is Kopitar, Richards, Doughty, Quick. That's it. Everyone else on the team, you could find a realistic price for those players and be willing to part with them. These guys are integral to the teams success and losing any of them permanently would be extremely detrimental to the Kings hopes of maintaining position in the NHL.

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Old
12-14-2011, 11:25 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by PSP View Post
That's probably 70% of your salary cap budget in 9 players and you don't have ANY wingers - that's pretty pathetic for 5+ seasons of building "the right way"
The remaining cap space is $29,626,191 for 11 roster spots and 2 healthy scratches.

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Old
12-15-2011, 07:03 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by markisonfire View Post
The remaining cap space is $29,626,191 for 11 roster spots and 2 healthy scratches.
How much are decent 1st and 2nd line wingers going to cost? An Average of $4mil ea?
If so, you now have $13.6mil left for 9 players - or an average of $1.5mil ea.

This is assuming that you go right to the salary cap and don't leave yourself any wiggle room. Let's say that you you leave $4.6mil as a "just in case" fund - that means your 3rd and 4th lines average $1mil ea, but decent 3rd line players are probably more like $1.5mil ea, so now you're down to $4.5mil for 6 players. They would all be at essentially minimum NHL salary.

Not a real pretty picture...

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Old
12-15-2011, 07:44 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by PSP View Post
How much are decent 1st and 2nd line wingers going to cost? An Average of $4mil ea?
If so, you now have $13.6mil left for 9 players - or an average of $1.5mil ea.

This is assuming that you go right to the salary cap and don't leave yourself any wiggle room. Let's say that you you leave $4.6mil as a "just in case" fund - that means your 3rd and 4th lines average $1mil ea, but decent 3rd line players are probably more like $1.5mil ea, so now you're down to $4.5mil for 6 players. They would all be at essentially minimum NHL salary.

Not a real pretty picture...
That's why teams need production from cheaper, younger players. The Matt Read's of the world. Something the Kings aren't getting too much of, outside of Voynov.

That's also why teams need to get production from the guys they are paying decent money to. Williams, Brown, Richardson, Doughty, Penner, etc. The Kings aren't getting their money's worth from a lot of players right now.

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Old
12-15-2011, 08:23 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by PSP View Post
How much are decent 1st and 2nd line wingers going to cost? An Average of $4mil ea?
If so, you now have $13.6mil left for 9 players - or an average of $1.5mil ea.

This is assuming that you go right to the salary cap and don't leave yourself any wiggle room. Let's say that you you leave $4.6mil as a "just in case" fund - that means your 3rd and 4th lines average $1mil ea, but decent 3rd line players are probably more like $1.5mil ea, so now you're down to $4.5mil for 6 players. They would all be at essentially minimum NHL salary.

Not a real pretty picture...

That's why it crushes Teams; (in the cap era) to give players like Drew/Gomez Seven million dollars and they don't produce enough.

Drew really has to pick it up with that salary. If Drew doesn't end the season around (10-15G 30-40A) He will really set this team back.

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Old
12-15-2011, 12:18 PM
  #42
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Bernier, Brown, Johnson should all be dangled and trying to be traded away.

Stoll needs to go, I'll take Chris Kelly at our 3rd line center spot over him any day. Trevor Lewis needs to play more, I don't care where, but the kid deserves ice time. He was arguably one of our best/consistent players last year and brings more to the table, imo, than Colin Fraser. The guy was playing on our 2nd PP unit (I know it's cuz of injuries) but he did score a big goal

Willie Mitchell needs to be re-upped, but if he doesn't, Tim Gleason would be a nice fit. Matt Greene needs to go or get that "A" taken away from him, the guy is just bad, plain and simple.

Core, imo:
Kopitar
Richards
Doughty
Quick

The rest I can see being traded away

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Old
12-15-2011, 12:20 PM
  #43
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Oh man, and Zach Parise would be something else. Of course, I doubt he'll sign here, unless we show some late-season spark or something, I just don't know why he'd sign with us with all the problems we've been going through. I'd love for us to try and trade for him before the deadline, I would think the Devils would be interested in a Bernier, Brown/Johnson and prospect (Martinez, Hickey) package? The guy is a pending UFA, that package is more than enough. If we can somehow get a guy like Parise and sign him long-term, wow, our team would be something else for years to come

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Old
12-15-2011, 12:35 PM
  #44
Jason Lewis
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Jochen Hecht (C) - Is he any good still? Hecht is alright but he is old
Travis Moen (W) - I always liked him. Wouldn't mind that one
Brandon Prust (C/W) - Probably not because of Clifford/Westgarth. Or this one
Paul Gaustad (C) - Has turned into a giant vagina. He is a younger Handzus essentially
Chris Kelly (C/W) - Having a great year Boston would never let him go the way he is playing
David Moss (W) 1 goal in 15 games? No thanks, soft soft soft
Jordin Tootoo (W) - Would be good. Don't mind his physical play...too dirty though...
Adam Burish (C/W) - Similar to Fraser. Let's just keep Fraser
Dominic Moore (C) - Moves around quite a bit. 2 goals in 30 games? Last year was an aberration
Greg Campbell (C/W) - Similar to Clifford/Fraser Again, I don't think Boston does ANYTHING with that roster
Taylor Pyatt (W) - Probably stays in Phoenix. Sadly, you're probably right
Dan Carcillo (W) - Awful this year. 2g 7a and a +8 from a 4th line agitator. That is not awful by ANY means. I'd take him.
Frans Nielsen (C) 4 goals, 8 assists, not bad. Meh

Mike Knuble? 39 years old. David Jones? David Jones is such a big fixture in Colorados offense. No way they part with him.

I do like the Prust, Moen, Gaustad suggestions though very much. And Carcillo has been pretty damn good. Would love to have him. Such a little ass on the ice...could you imagine Carcillo and Nolan on a line. So nasty.

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Old
12-15-2011, 12:38 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
http://theahl.com/stats/player.php?id=1497

After the Niedermayer thing, the Devils seemingly have gone out of their way to get a bunch of siblings onto the AHL club. Jordan Parise, Stephen Gionta, Mike Pandolfo, Darcy Zajac....
****ing great....now we get to hear Chico call them by their first names and act like they are his god damn grandkids for longer.


"Travis passes to Zach, Zach to Travis' brother Darcy, Darcy over to Zachs brother Jordan....."



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Old
12-15-2011, 03:51 PM
  #46
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Some very valid points in this thread. I think it ultimately comes down to lack of performance across the board, regardless of the player's indicated role. The gritty guys are not being gritty enough, the pests aren't pestering enough and the scorers are definitely not scoring enough. We really have enough talent in each of those roles to be a very successful team (see: preseason predictions). Sure we could use some upgrades in the 'wingers that can finish' category. But we've seen that the current corp can be successful in outscoring their opponent and winning games.
Sure you can tear down the whole core and start a over, but who wants that? Sure you can try to go get established 3rd and 4th liners, but who wants to overpay for that? Really we just need the current group to step up and take responsibility for getting this team back on track. Is DB the "C" that can do the job? I sure hope so, otherwise you are looking at change in that role and I see that as a sure sign that a teardown and re-build will be taking place.

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Old
12-15-2011, 04:09 PM
  #47
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Like the Stevens approach so far:

1) Attitude/Philosophy =loosen up the room - exactly what the team needs at this point. Murray seemed respected by the players. When listening to the players and reading their quotes it's almost like he was a father figure and no one wants to disappoint Dad, so loosening up the enviroment and getting back to the basics is a great thing.

2) Take a breath -Voynov is a rookie and a lot can be learned from stepping back and learning by watching. We do this with new cops on the street even if they are functioning at a high level. Learning curves are steep and sometimes a step back approach is warranted. It also allows Martinez and DD2 playing time. DD2 still is shaking off the dust from a prolonged sitting, and Martinez is just getting back. These two will be the 2 moved in a trade so having them play and get to a point were scouts are impressed is a good thing

3) Core -this team has talent in the major weakspots. We have AllStar goaltending, 2 outstanding young Dman with more coming and a 1/2 punch at center that very few teams have.

3)(a) Core Support -Our wingers are not as bad as people think, just put in spots that may be above their pay grade. Brown is an ideal 2nd winger in this league, we are lucky to have him. Gagne has shown his worth and he too is solid. In the current NHL a 2nd line of Richards - Gagne - Brown is considered well above average. One of Williams or Penner is good enough as shotgun to Kopitar if Lombardi lands us a true 1st line Winger.

4) Problem- Matt Greene is a huge problem in my eyes, he is old school NHL and not skilled enough to produce anything other then some leadership and lots of penalties. Upgrade him and we have the best defence in the NHL by next season.

5) Bottom 6- Hunter is a bottom pairing winger put wrongly on the PP. He is not our problem, he is a role player who is actually getting better. The dude is coming of major surgery(think Handzus his 1st year)

6) Problem - Kompon must go in a new coaching system

7) Core - Mike Richards needs the C, just let Brown play

8) Attitude/Philosophy -this is a team with young kids, let them play with emotion, sometimes it will bite us in the butt but for most times unbridaled emotion brings out the beasts and the natural skill and thinking. T.M stifled this, his concrete face alone showed his true colors and that over time made the team stale and robotic.

9) Bottom 6- paging Mr Clifford, brass up the pair and get back to work or Manchester will be calling

10) Movable Asset -Loktionov needs to sit and watch a few games. With AK and MR I think he will be moved. I like the kid, but he has no place to succeed in this line-up.

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Old
12-15-2011, 04:20 PM
  #48
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Testy Calles in a jar by the locker room door.

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Old
12-18-2011, 11:12 PM
  #49
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-DD needs to get his **** together asap. he has looked mediocre to horrendous all season. im in the GM seat and within the next two years he hasn't returned to form, i would be listening to offers. LA has options on the blueline and to sit on a $7M contract waiting for 'potential' is ridiculous. at that point he will have 5-years under his belt, listen to offers and let him be someone else's 'generational talent' while getting something of value.
Whats doing on with DD?

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Old
12-19-2011, 12:04 AM
  #50
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I don't think giving Richards the C is going to help the guy any, he had it in Philly and they drove him nuts, keep it on Brown and just let Richards do his thing...

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