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Scott Hartnell is going to the All-Star Game

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Old
12-15-2011, 02:15 PM
  #1
poneill27
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Hartnell to ASG? Also named one of the NHL's top 3 stars, Jan. 23

Should we vote him in? I saw someone bring it up and think its a great idea.(if a mod wants to make this a poll or whatever feel free)


Last edited by MiamiScreamingEagles: 01-23-2012 at 05:01 PM.
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12-15-2011, 02:19 PM
  #2
tdflyers
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Hartnell is a product of his linemates.
Briere and Leino
Giroux and Jagr
Stick him on a 2nd or 3rd line and he's an average player with above average number of falls.
End of story.

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12-15-2011, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdflyers View Post
Hartnell is a product of his linemates.
Briere and Leino
Giroux and Jagr
Stick him on a 2nd or 3rd line and he's an average player with above average number of falls.
End of story.
I think this is sort of overrated, the guy still has to bury the puck and make the passes to earn assists. He also is a plus 18 so he is on the ice when we are scoring. Hartnell works hard and does the gritty stuff a team needs done. IMO he is having an all-star type season

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12-15-2011, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by tdflyers View Post
Hartnell is a product of his linemates.
Briere and Leino
Giroux and Jagr
Stick him on a 2nd or 3rd line and he's an average player with above average number of falls.
End of story.
There is something to be said for the fact that he always gets put on the Flyers top line no matter who is there.

I think he deserves to make the all star game this year based on his play so far.

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12-15-2011, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyersfan139 View Post
There is something to be said for the fact that he always gets put on the Flyers top line no matter who is there.

I think he deserves to make the all star game this year based on his play so far.
I think it's more the fact of who else on the Flyers would you put on the first line?
Vorchek has chemistry with G and Jagr. So does Danny B. So does half the NHL because playing with a future hall of famer and a current hall of famer makes you that much better as a player. But it's Hartnell that didn't have chemistry on any other line before being placed on that line. He was horrible at the beginning of the season. He only started to turn it around when he started playing with 2 allstars.

Hartnell on any other line and you guys wouldn't even think twice about NOT sending Hartnell to the ASG. (Think back to the first 3 years of his contract - everyone wanted him traded and was the favorite whipping boy). Do you think he just found his magic now?

There's no denying that he is playing well but to send him to the ASG? I respectfully disagree.


Last edited by tdflyers: 12-15-2011 at 02:57 PM.
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12-15-2011, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I think this is sort of overrated, the guy still has to bury the puck and make the passes to earn assists. He also is a plus 18 so he is on the ice when we are scoring. Hartnell works hard and does the gritty stuff a team needs done. IMO he is having an all-star type season
+/- is a worthless stat however if you want to use it, he's playing with the leading point producer in the NHL who's average 1.39 pts per game. Jagr isn't to shabby at a ppg.
I would be a + player on a line with G and Jagr.

You would have scored at least some goals if you know how to skate.

All stars are players that make those around them better.
Giroux, Pronger, Jagr, Briere.....those guys are Allstars.
Hartnell on a 3rd line makes nobody better. He is not an All star

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12-15-2011, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by tdflyers View Post
+/- is a worthless stat however if you want to use it, he's playing with the leading point producer in the NHL who's average 1.39 pts per game. Jagr isn't to shabby at a ppg.
I would be a + player on a line with G and Jagr.

You would have scored at least some goals if you know how to skate.

All stars are players that make those around them better.
Giroux, Pronger, Jagr, Briere.....those guys are Allstars.
Hartnell on a 3rd line makes nobody better. He is not an All star
+/- is not a worthless stat, I will admit it is flawed, but useless it is not. I wouldn't score on a line with Jagr and Giroux and I've been playing hockey for the past 7 years. As someone pointed out Hartnell does make his line mates better. He does what a top line or any line that needs, he digs in the corners, plays on the edge, and creates screens. JVR in the beginning of the year was with Giroux and Jagr and that didn't work out quite well. You are not giving Hartnell enough credit for his play, and like I said is having an all-star type season as of right now. Top 30 in scoring(27), guy is kicking ass right now

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12-15-2011, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
+/- is not a worthless stat, I will admit it is flawed, but useless it is not. I wouldn't score on a line with Jagr and Giroux and I've been playing hockey for the past 7 years. As someone pointed out Hartnell does make his line mates better. He does what a top line or any line that needs, he digs in the corners, plays on the edge, and creates screens. JVR in the beginning of the year was with Giroux and Jagr and that didn't work out quite well. You are not giving Hartnell enough credit for his play, and like I said is having an all-star type season as of right now. Top 30 in scoring(27), guy is kicking ass right now
FF - I bet you'd have at least one or two
Maybe I'm not giving him enough credit. I just see it differently I guess.

I don't see how Hartnell makes G and Jagr better.
I think someone like Bobby Ryan might make them better.
If you put someone like Ryan on their wing, that whole line is better. Hartnell is interchangeable with so many other players in the league.
Hartnell does the things that he does (corners, edge, screen) but there are better players out there that do them better that aren't going to the Allstar game because they don't have inflated numbers from playing with two of the best players in the league right now. I guess that's my point.

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12-15-2011, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdflyers View Post
Hartnell is a product of his linemates.
Briere and Leino
Giroux and Jagr
Stick him on a 2nd or 3rd line and he's an average player with above average number of falls.
End of story.
Or let's look at it from the other side. Every line he's put on seems to immediately click. How have Briere and Leino done since Harts left their line?

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12-15-2011, 03:30 PM
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tdflyers
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Or let's look at it from the other side. Every line he's put on seems to immediately click. How have Briere and Leino done since Harts left their line?
Valid point and a good way to look at it.

Lieno - I think most of us knew he was absolutely a product of Briere.
Briere - he was good before Hartnell and Lieno.

But you're right neither are playing like they were when the 3 were together.

ps cute kids. taking mine to her first ahl game sunday.


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12-15-2011, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
I think this is sort of overrated, the guy still has to bury the puck and make the passes to earn assists. He also is a plus 18 so he is on the ice when we are scoring. Hartnell works hard and does the gritty stuff a team needs done. IMO he is having an all-star type season
exactly... people who think that way have no clue. in the end the person still has to be a hockey player.

how about his style of play is helping the lines success instead of he is just a passenger

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12-15-2011, 06:12 PM
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He was a passenger when Carter scored 46. He was a passenger when Leino and Briere went ******* in 2010. He's a passenger on G and Jagr's line. If I was a Flyer I'd be begging to carry Hartnell around the ice.

What Hartnell's detractors seem to get caught up on is the fact that he needs good linemates to score points. This is an entirely different thing than being a leach. He makes a big difference in puck possession and he knows how to take full advantage of his linemates abilities. Basically he knows his role, and knows how to play with star players very well.

If any left wing could add what he adds to all these top scoring lines, than anybody would end up there. But they don't and he does, pretty consistently. He is certainly not the most obvious choice to put on a first line, yet somehow the coach's keep putting him there.

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12-15-2011, 06:35 PM
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I think he's going. And he should.

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12-15-2011, 09:56 PM
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Of course Giroux and Jagr help out with Hartnell's success. That doesn't matter, he has been racking up all star caliber points and deserves to go.

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12-16-2011, 07:06 AM
  #15
tdflyers
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Originally Posted by whskybarJM View Post
exactly... people who think that way have no clue.
A little harsh. More like "they have a different opinion?"


Quote:
how about his style of play is helping the lines success instead of he is just a passenger
Okay, I'm fine with that. But should we send someone to the all star game based on his style helping others succeed? I personally don't think so. What's Hartnell going to do in the skills competition (god I hate that..).

Speed? Nope. Obviously
Shootout? Nope. Has no 1 on 1 skills
Stick handle? Nope. Has hands of stone
Passing? Nope. Even Dorny says "One of Hartnells cannon passes"

What can Hartnell do very well that makes him an All star?
Crash the net. Work hard on the boards. Fall down.

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12-16-2011, 07:16 AM
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That stamkos guy is such a leach. Only scores goals from st louis passing the puck to him. pfft.


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12-16-2011, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post

If any left wing could add what he adds to all these top scoring lines, than anybody would end up there. But they don't and he does, pretty consistently. He is certainly not the most obvious choice to put on a first line, yet somehow the coach's keep putting him there.
Hartnell reminds me a lot of when Knuble was here playing with Forsberg and Gagne. Knuble is not a guy to do it own his own, but he knows his role and does it well.

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12-16-2011, 12:22 PM
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Cleaned up. Keep it on topic without the baiting/name calling.

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12-16-2011, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdflyers View Post
What can Hartnell do very well that makes him an All star?
Play hockey. The AHL is littered with guys who look amazing in skills competitions.

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12-16-2011, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by tdflyers View Post
I think it's more the fact of who else on the Flyers would you put on the first line?
Vorchek has chemistry with G and Jagr. So does Danny B. So does half the NHL because playing with a future hall of famer and a current hall of famer makes you that much better as a player. But it's Hartnell that didn't have chemistry on any other line before being placed on that line. He was horrible at the beginning of the season. He only started to turn it around when he started playing with 2 allstars.

Hartnell on any other line and you guys wouldn't even think twice about NOT sending Hartnell to the ASG. (Think back to the first 3 years of his contract - everyone wanted him traded and was the favorite whipping boy). Do you think he just found his magic now?

There's no denying that he is playing well but to send him to the ASG? I respectfully disagree.
Bro, you are so off base it isn't even funny.

Jagr was out for several games w/ his groin injury. Guess what? HARTNELL KEPT SCORING.

Giroux has now been out for a couple games w/ his concussion. Guess what? HARTNELL HAS KEPT SCORING.

Obviously having great linemates helps, but Hartnell has scored a ton of nice goals this year:

-His most recent goal against WSH had NOTHING to do w/ Jagr or G... it was unassisted.

-His goal in the Lightning game was an empty netter. Again, he could've scored this w/ any linemates.

-His goal in the Pens game was scored while playing w/ Briere and Read and came off a great pass from Meszaros... had nothing to do w/ G or Jagr.

-His goal in Buffalo was just an absolutely sick snipe. Giroux got an assist, but it wasn't some amazing pass that made the goal, it was all about the shot from Hartsy.

-His goal in the PHX game was a PPG playing w/ Briere + Read (no G or Jagr involved).

-His goal in the ANA game was off a great play by him. Hartnell made a great pass to a cutting Kimmo Timonen who took it around the back of the net, played catch w/ Jagr and then Kimmo got it back and made a sick pass out front to Hartnell for an easy goal. This one was more Hartsy + Kimmmo than Jagr and G wasn't even involved.

-His goal in the Islanders game came on the PP w/ Voracek and G as linemates. Voracek slapped a puck in, it ricocheted off the boards and right to Hartnell who made a sick side-angle snipe. This was all about a lucky bounce and a SICK SNIPE... nothing to do w/ linemates.

-His 1st goal in the WPG game came on the powerplay off a deflection from Pronger. Giroux and Jagr again played no/minimal role.

-His 2nd goal in the WPG game came on a 2-man powerplay. Pronger passed it down low to Briere who made a sick pass out in front to Hartnell who deposited it in the back of the net. G and Jagr again had nothing to do w/ this.

-His goal in the TBL game (the November one) came on the PP off a deflection on a Voracek shot. G and Jagr again had NOTHING to do w/ it.

-His goal in the BUF game (the november one) came w/ him driving down the wing. Giroux made an easy pass to him and Hartnell absolutely blasted a rocket past Miller. It was all about the sick shot.

-His goal in the CAR game (October) was all Giroux. Giroux made a sick interception, a nice no-look behind the back dish to Hartnell, and Scotty had an open net.

-His goal in the WPG game (October) was all about him and Jagr. Hartsy made a great interception, got it to Jagr, who then made the perfect return feed to a cutting Hartnell for an easy goal.

-His 1st goal in the TOR game (October) was on the powerplay playing w/ Voracek and Briere. Sick pass by Briere for an easy goal. Jagr and G weren't involved though.

-His 2nd goal in the TOR game (October) came off a sick feed from Giroux, but it was still a nice shot from Hartnell. Equal parts G and Harts on this one.

I've now outlined all 15 of Hartnell's goals this year and of those 15, G or Jagr played a significant role in only 3, MAYBE 4 of those goals.

HARTNELL ABSOLUTELY DESERVES AN ALL-STAR BID.

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12-16-2011, 02:40 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdflyers View Post
Hartnell is a product of his linemates.
Briere and Leino
Giroux and Jagr
Stick him on a 2nd or 3rd line and he's an average player with above average number of falls.
End of story.
I say this about Tom Brady every year and yet he always makes the all star game. Following that logic, yes, Hartnell should go to the All Star Game. Fact of the matter is he's a good player and if the ASG is a basis for how strong of a season you are having, you should go.

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12-22-2011, 12:17 PM
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poneill27
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Lappy said on pre-game that he was voting Hartnell into the ASG and expects him to be there. Anyone else see that? (BTW 2 asst. last night.)

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12-22-2011, 12:32 PM
  #23
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I continue to not understand what any Flyers fan could have against Hartnell. He's been a great Flyer his entire time here and is somehow always on the best line the team has year in and year out. That **** ain't luck and it isn't some coincidence either.

He does a lot of things well. He skates well for a guy his size aside from the falling down bit, he creates tons of space out there, crashes the net, is good along the walls, can score 20-30 goals a season pretty routinely, is quite good in his own zone, works his ass off, will fight and agitate, and from all accounts keeps things loose on the ice and in the room.

He's the perfect role player and we've been tremendously lucky to have him.

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12-22-2011, 01:27 PM
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He'll never make it. He's just not a popular guy.

When people don't like someone, they're only good because of the line they're on.

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12-22-2011, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
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I continue to not understand what any Flyers fan could have against Hartnell. He's been a great Flyer his entire time here and is somehow always on the best line the team has year in and year out. That **** ain't luck and it isn't some coincidence either.

He does a lot of things well. He skates well for a guy his size aside from the falling down bit, he creates tons of space out there, crashes the net, is good along the walls, can score 20-30 goals a season pretty routinely, is quite good in his own zone, works his ass off, will fight and agitate, and from all accounts keeps things loose on the ice and in the room.

He's the perfect role player and we've been tremendously lucky to have him.

It's probably because even though everything you've said I agree with, he CONTINUES to take stupid penatly after stupid penatly. Even with his play being a career year so far, his parade to the penatly box is unacceptable. If he stopped doing that and kept playing like his is, he'd become a fan favorite.

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