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Messier battling Canucks for $ UPD: Awarded $6m by Arbitrator

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Old
12-15-2011, 09:13 PM
  #51
Catamarca Livin
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Originally Posted by AmazingNuck View Post
You'd do the same so get off your high horse. He doesn't owe this organization anything. If anything, he probably hates our organization.
I cannot speak for the Canucks but for fans the feeling is mutual.

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Old
12-15-2011, 09:15 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
It depends what clauses were in his contract. If he is owed money then he is entitled to enforce it.

When Aquilini was in court with Gaglardi and Beedie it was noted Messier was still owed money under his contract.

Here is the clip.
http://watch.tsn.ca/featured/clip586871#clip586871

Check out at 3:10 on the video.

This dispute has been going on for a number of years. Similar to Bure where it took years for him to be paid out under his lockout guaranteed contract.
Wetocaster, you remain our treasure trove of legal and contractual knowledge!!

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Old
12-15-2011, 09:16 PM
  #53
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isnt it possible to sue back for under performance he was brutal looked like he was lost

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Old
12-15-2011, 09:17 PM
  #54
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C'mon, give the guy a break. Isn't his child support over 10 grand a month?

You wouldn't want his child to go hungry would you?

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Old
12-15-2011, 09:20 PM
  #55
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isnt it possible to sue back for under performance
I hear that the Flames are currently looking into that issue with regards to Bouwmeester.

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Old
12-15-2011, 09:28 PM
  #56
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EDIT: NM partially answered.

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Old
12-15-2011, 09:34 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
It depends what clauses were in his contract. If he is owed money then he is entitled to enforce it.

When Aquilini was in court with Gaglardi and Beedie it was noted Messier was still owed money under his contract.

Here is the clip.
http://watch.tsn.ca/featured/clip586871#clip586871

Check out at 3:10 on the video.

This dispute has been going on for a number of years. Similar to Bure where it took years for him to be paid out under his lockout guaranteed contract.
are these weird clauses still allowed/used in contracts or did they go the way of monetary compensation in trading

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Old
12-15-2011, 09:36 PM
  #58
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so with Wetcoaster's link, Pat Quinn is still ****ing us?

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Old
12-15-2011, 09:44 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by AmazingNuck View Post
You'd do the same so get off your high horse. He doesn't owe this organization anything. If anything, he probably hates our organization.
No, I wouldn't. I actually have some integrity. I wouldn't fall back on legalese. I would know that the franchise value increased DESPITE me, and be happy with the millions I earned as a player.

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Old
12-15-2011, 09:48 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by kevinsane View Post
No, I wouldn't. I actually have some integrity. I wouldn't fall back on legalese. I would know that the franchise value increased DESPITE me, and be happy with the millions I earned as a player.
Sure.

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Old
12-15-2011, 09:54 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by kevinsane View Post
No, I wouldn't. I actually have some integrity. I wouldn't fall back on legalese. I would know that the franchise value increased DESPITE me, and be happy with the millions I earned as a player.
It is not "legalese".

Contracts are not based on fairness, equity, etc. but on their terms assuming that the contract was validly entered into in the first place.

If one of the terms of the contract called for Messier to be paid a percentage based upon an increase in franchise value during a specified period and that amount is provable then he is owed the money.

Seems pretty simple.

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Old
12-15-2011, 09:58 PM
  #62
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Sure.
Seriously. You don't have to believe me, but I couldn't live with myself if I pulled what Messier's doing. I have a little pride.

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Old
12-15-2011, 10:00 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by AmazingNuck View Post
You'd do the same so get off your high horse. He doesn't owe this organization anything. If anything, he probably hates our organization.
Generally I find that these types of statements tend to be pretty much 100% projection.

There are actually a great many people who wouldn't try to collect on something like this - people like me. I would be utterly embarrassed to try to collect on such a payment based on my performance in Vancouver.

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Old
12-15-2011, 10:03 PM
  #64
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If he's owed money, he's owed money. I don't see the problem.

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Old
12-15-2011, 10:04 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
It is not "legalese".

Contracts are not based on fairness, equity, etc. but on their terms assuming that the contract was validly entered into in the first place.

If one of the terms of the contract called for Messier to be paid a percentage based upon an increase in franchise value during
a specified period and that amount
is provable then he is owed
money.

Seems pretty simple.
It is, from a legal perspective. He's entitled to the money, it seems, and it's a fair and binding element of his deal. Unless he's broke, though, he should be too embarrassed to publicly reference it. If he had a shred of self-awareness, he'd admit he was a detriment to the franchise, not a catalyst for growth.

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Old
12-15-2011, 10:05 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Somehockeydude View Post
Generally I find that these types of statements tend to be pretty much 100% projection.

There are actually a great many people who wouldn't try to collect on something like this - people like me. I would be utterly embarrassed to try to collect on such a payment based on my performance in Vancouver.
Thank you. My point exactly.

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Old
12-15-2011, 10:07 PM
  #67
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The value of the Canucks started steadily jumping up around 2001. Messier was gone by then. The team was in shambles during the time Messier was here.

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Old
12-15-2011, 10:07 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by kevinsane View Post
It is, from a legal perspective. He's entitled to the money, it seems, and it's a fair and binding element of his deal. Unless he's broke, though, he should be too embarrassed to publicly reference it. If he had a shred of self-awareness, he'd admit he was a detriment to the franchise, not a catalyst for growth.
Completely irrelevant to the contract terms.

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Old
12-15-2011, 10:07 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
It is not "legalese".

Contracts are not based on fairness, equity, etc. but on their terms assuming that the contract was validly entered into in the first place.

If one of the terms of the contract called for Messier to be paid a percentage based upon an increase in franchise value during a specified period and that amount is provable then he is owed the money.

Seems pretty simple.
So did the value of the franchise increase because of Messier or despite Messier?

Sounds like an expensive argument for both sides to me.

Messier must be counting on an out of court settlement.

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Old
12-15-2011, 10:08 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by FakeKidPoker View Post
Messier gets far too much hate from the people of Vancouver.
Were you alive in 94? Anybody who saw Messier cheap shot Linden in game 6 would never say that.

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Old
12-15-2011, 10:10 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
It is not "legalese".

Contracts are not based on fairness, equity, etc. but on their terms assuming that the contract was validly entered into in the first place.

If one of the terms of the contract called for Messier to be paid a percentage based upon an increase in franchise value during a specified period and that amount is provable then he is owed the money.

Seems pretty simple.
I think that when the literal legal reality of a contract is completely at odds with the spirit of the agreement calling it "legalese" in a derogatory sense is fair.

This would definitely be one of those times, the value of the team might have gone up while he was here but it sure as **** didn't have anything to do with that *******.

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Old
12-15-2011, 10:21 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Eddy Punch Clock View Post
So did the value of the franchise increase because of Messier or despite Messier?

Sounds like an expensive argument for both sides to me.

Messier must be counting on an out of court settlement.
Why would it matter?

If the formula in the contract was simply an increase in franchise value over a specified period of time (as is being reported), that is all that is required. Pretty simple. I suppose their might be an argument over the actual amount of the increase in value but that is pretty much an accounting function and i assume those figures would all be available as they were likely part of the negotiations when Aquilini bought into the club. This truly ain't rocket science.

The Canucks have tried bizarre arguments in the past to try to avoid contractual obligations - and were unsuccessful. It ended up costing them the principal sum, interest and paying the legal fees of the successful parties.

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Old
12-15-2011, 10:23 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Somehockeydude View Post
I think that when the literal legal reality of a contract is completely at odds with the spirit of the agreement calling it "legalese" in a derogatory sense is fair.

This would definitely be one of those times, the value of the team might have gone up while he was here but it sure as **** didn't have anything to do with that *******.
Again that is irrelevant unless the clause had some form of causation test which according to reports it does not.

A contract is a legally binding agreement enforceable between the parties according to its terms.

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Old
12-15-2011, 10:24 PM
  #74
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I have to laugh at all these claims of so much "integrity" and "pride" that they wouldn't try and collect millions of dollars they were contractually entitled to. "Naw Mr.Aquilini you keep those multi millions you owe me...I have integrity"

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Old
12-15-2011, 10:25 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
I have to laugh at all these claims of so much "integrity" and "pride" that they wouldn't try and collect millions of dollars they were contractually entitled to. "Naw Mr.Aquilini you keep those multi millions you owe me...I have integrity"
It is humourous.

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