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Old
12-16-2011, 06:24 AM
  #51
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
Gotta move Cammy Gionta Gomez. You can't invest 18 million in three players who absolutely do nothing to help the team on the ice and expect to have a contender.
I can understand Gomez, but the other 2 make no sense. Gionta puts up about 30 every year and Cammy is usually there also and is a playoff beast.

Making moves based on guys being hurt and/or in a slump is moronoc. I guess we should trade PK also because he had a rough night

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Old
12-16-2011, 06:31 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Habblues View Post
Seriously ? Price is the ONLY reason we are even close to being in the playoff hunt......No way you watch the games every night.
I don't think he's been bad, but to say he's the ONLY reason we are in the playoff hunt is way off base.

1-he's gotten us some points, by playing great games, but even teams with horrible goaltending(the 3-4 worst) have had nights were their goalie gets them a point(s) they probably don't deserve

2-the first month he had some rough nights and he was part of them problem, not a victim of it

3-way to give absolutely no credit to guys like Gorges Cole Plekanec Pacioretty DD plus the rookies on defense who held things together when it could have really gotten bad.

The worst part is we see garbage threads like this after a game were we BLATANTLY get hosed by the officials(who can say the Plekanec no goal was no good yet the Zolnarchuck one was good???). Plus Price was pretty average last night, I'd say Bobrobsky outplayed him.

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Old
12-16-2011, 06:44 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
It seems this cap floor team hoopla is another smoke screen to avoid the issues, if you had a said Markov would be injured during the first half of the season, I would of said, no kidding. You can't really count his money as missing as it was at least partially expected. Then another 7.3m comes from a guy who hasn't scored in 50games, I don't think missing him has hurt all that much, in fact it may have been a blessing in disguise.

13 million accounted for that should have been reasonably assumed to not have much impact, if any at all. I'm not really buying this argument, sounds devastating, but it's really just a play on words in order to create special effects in attempt to make the situation seem more dire than it is.

That 13 million was gone before the year started. Most already knew that. I don't mind the Markov signing, but I said at the time, if he doesn't play, it's no longer a valid excuse, you assume the risk, you deal with the consequences.
A smoke screen ?

Thats the bottom-5 for the payrolls right now.
Minus Nashville (and we all know how exciting and offensive their team is. After all, its a team that is absolutely not relying on his goaltender to win games), for each one of these teams, being 8th would be a solid performance.

New York Islanders $51,499,832
Dallas Stars $51,380,203
Colorado Avalanche $51,127,193
Carolina Hurricanes $50,929,725
Nashville Predators $48,565,734

Markov was a risk, so far, he's not really helpful, but i would have done the same move, and as far as i know, considering the situation, its still, right now, probably the best thing to do.

It was partially expected, right, but you have to consider this in your expectations, first.
We're spending 64.3M$, but we are only using 58.6M$ on the ice, in September. That puts you the lower half of the league.
We finished 6th last year, we did lose two important defensemen, the play was obviously going to suffer a little bit at the beginning of the year. Thats quite a problem around here, the expectations.


Gomez is overpaid, yes.
Gomez doesnt score, yes.
Gomez is useless ? Absolutely not, and especially not given the circumstances. We need every single good player we have in the system. He cant score, but he can play against a decent competition, and doing fine against that competition.

With our depleted D, thats a huge asset to have a player able to drive the play to the offensive zone, even if for several reasons, the puck is not really going in the net that often, its still much better than having to chase the puck around with Nokelainen and Palushaj.

If he was the only player injured in the roster, maybe that would be possibly considered as a blessing in disguise, but right now, its just not true, and we're missing him, not because of the talent or the ability of the player stricto sensu, but because Gomez out, plus Spacek out, plus Campoli out, plus a Top-6 winger out, plus a 3rd line player out, with Markov already out, even if you had planned that one, thats just too much to handle.

Plekanec have to play against 1st liners without any consistent help, and unsurprisingly, he is not doing very well right now. Starting most of your shifts in your own zone against the best players of the opponents every night is obviously going to drag your numbers down.
Eller, currently, have to carry a defensive line with Nokelainen and Darche.
At the beginning of the year, if i told you that Eller will play with Nokelainen and Darche for several games, before Christmas, what would have been your reaction and your expectations about a team icing such a 3rd line ?
(The Dane is looking better and better though)

How could you expect a team to be competitive when you only have 2 defensemen able to face a Top-6 line for more than two consecutive games ?
Diaz and Emelin are going to be solid players. But thats too soon to ask them to be that solid right now.

Having only 1 or 2 very good players out is difficult, but having so many players (5+) out at the same time is also very problematic. And when its both combined ? Well, we're in that situation right now.

The quality of the player is not really that relevant anymore, as long as he's a NHL player, of course, but we're in a situation when your 4th liner have to face 2nd line-caliber opponents, and when Diaz or Weber is surely playing against Kesler or Staal.

You also need some depth, and we dont have that much depth in NHL-ready forwards, unfortunately.

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Old
12-16-2011, 07:07 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
He admits to this, but I agree, Price has been ok, not the reason we're losing, but not the reason we're winning either. In fact, he's probably cost us a few more points than he's won. I know we love to give all the credit to the goalie, but 17th in SV% is about average.

The team was playing especially well during the first 7 or 8 games where their record reflected poorly, lately they are starting to be outplayed somewhat regularly. I find that quite concerning, but we'll see.
I would agree and disagree, he has lost us points in the shootout but they wouldnt have been in half of those shootouts without his play so I wont count him as losing points that he stole for us in the first place.

Also mathman brings up the 100 point pace since the 1-5-2 start and interestingly enough that coincides with price have a .929 sv % and 2.05 gaa over that period as well. I think tonight he cost them atleast a point but that second goal shouldnt have counted since rinaldo was pushing him away from the puck and the fact that the our goal was disallowed for less. Simmons goal I dont know what is expected of him when the puck is knocked to the other side of the net with his hand, the only thing that stops that is some old fashion crease clearing but we do not have the ability to do that. He also mentions that price hasnt stolen any games which is completely untrue he sealed the end of the NJD game just a few games ago maybe mathman missed that.

As far as the out shooting the opponents goes, I would take them getting outshot all day if they gave up less quality chances.

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Old
12-16-2011, 07:17 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
I would agree and disagree, he has lost us points in the shootout but they wouldnt have been in half of those shootouts without his play so I wont count him as losing points that he stole for us in the first place.

Also mathman brings up the 100 point pace since the 1-5-2 start and interestingly enough that coincides with price have a .929 sv % and 2.05 gaa over that period as well. I think tonight he cost them atleast a point but that second goal shouldnt have counted since rinaldo was pushing him away from the puck and the fact that the our goal was disallowed for less. Simmons goal I dont know what is expected of him when the puck is knocked to the other side of the net with his hand, the only thing that stops that is some old fashion crease clearing but we do not have the ability to do that. He also mentions that price hasnt stolen any games which is completely untrue he sealed the end of the NJD game just a few games ago maybe mathman missed that.

As far as the out shooting the opponents goes, I would take them getting outshot all day if they gave up less quality chances.
The two main things that cost us 2 points last night...

1-the reffing, you can't look at the two questionable goals and not see that the Phillie one if anything should have been the ONE called back...worst case both or none should have been disallowed. No matter how you slice it we have been on the wrong end of some brutal calls lately INCLUDINg the Pacioretty suspension.

2-poor defensive coverage. Last night wasn't pretty in terms of defensive coverage. The Simmonds goal was terrible they let him waltz through the crease. The Talbot goal he was by himself 15-20 feet out. The Zolnarchuk goal there were two guys in or near the crease. It's not just about big bruising d-men it's about getting body positionning. Timonen is like 5'9" 185lbs and he is solid in defensive coverage, so is Bouillon and Robidas...and little Ference in Boston.

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Old
12-16-2011, 07:22 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
The two main things that cost us 2 points last night...

1-the reffing, you can't look at the two questionable goals and not see that the Phillie one if anything should have been the ONE called back...worst case both or none should have been disallowed. No matter how you slice it we have been on the wrong end of some brutal calls lately INCLUDINg the Pacioretty suspension.

2-poor defensive coverage. Last night wasn't pretty in terms of defensive coverage. The Simmonds goal was terrible they let him waltz through the crease. The Talbot goal he was by himself 15-20 feet out. The Zolnarchuk goal there were two guys in or near the crease. It's not just about big bruising d-men it's about getting body positionning. Timonen is like 5'9" 185lbs and he is solid in defensive coverage, so is Bouillon and Robidas...and little Ference in Boston.
Ya dam refs cost us the game giving us 9 ****ing pp. Ok the goals could have went either way but seriously 9 pp we should have done better stop blaming the refs they don't run our pp or send Darche out there for almost 20 minutes

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Old
12-16-2011, 07:36 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Ya dam refs cost us the game giving us 9 ****ing pp. Ok the goals could have went either way but seriously 9 pp we should have done better stop blaming the refs they don't run our pp or send Darche out there for almost 20 minutes
PP went 2/9 that's 23% nothing wrong with that.

I would gladly trade 2 goals for 9 PP's.

I agree on Darche but people are blowing that wayyy out of proportion. He's played 10:27 a night this year. Played 16:51 not 20 minutes.

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Old
12-16-2011, 07:39 AM
  #58
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People should stop saying that before last night we were a 100points pace team. This is ********.

Boston Bruins were 15-0-0 were they a 164pts pace team?

Oh TampaBay lost 3... They are a 0pt team?!

Its easy to take 'samples' but its irealistic.

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Old
12-16-2011, 07:40 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by SnapVirus View Post
People should stop saying that before last night we were a 100points pace team. This is ********.

Boston Bruins were 15-0-0 were they a 164pts pace team?

Oh TampaBay lost 3... They are a 0pt team?!

Its easy to take 'samples' but its irealistic.
It's the Toronto Maple Leafs approach.

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Old
12-16-2011, 07:42 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Yarfangor View Post
On the bright side Kaberle has a point streak

but sadly I have 0 faith, only way we improve is if Management gets an overhaul, seriously.

I believe we have a great team talent wise, deep, and such but our Mgmt was awful for it.
I think this is one of the problems....the fans perception of how good the team is and the reality of how good the team really is. It is a mediocre team with an excellent goaltender.

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Old
12-16-2011, 07:43 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Ya dam refs cost us the game giving us 9 ****ing pp. Ok the goals could have went either way but seriously 9 pp we should have done better stop blaming the refs they don't run our pp or send Darche out there for almost 20 minutes
The 5 on 3 has to be scored on I would put weber out there before subban TBH. Some of the calls against the flyers were cheap like the second Couturier slashing on darche.

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Old
12-16-2011, 07:45 AM
  #62
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And argument about salarycap/injuries is a big lol.

Because you compare our salary cap minus injuries against other teams salary cap (but u dont remove their injuries off the cap).

How much money the penguins lost without Malkin-Letang-Crosby?

Philly without Pronger? giroux?

Calculate it again. ********!

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Old
12-16-2011, 07:47 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
The 5 on 3 has to be scored on I would put weber out there before subban TBH. Some of the calls against the flyers were cheap like the second Couturier slashing on darche.
We did score on the 5 on 3, but Leak made up some call and called it back, did you not watch the game?

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Old
12-16-2011, 07:48 AM
  #64
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before anyone goes off to buy razor blades, we've been 12-7-6 in our last 25 games losing 3/4 of our games by 1 goal, despite having the most man games lost to injuries.

The 1-5-1 start is still showing on the point total, but my bet is that after the next 25 games, it'll be nothing but a bad memory.

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Old
12-16-2011, 07:51 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
but again, thats not reality. The fact is, that stretch did happened. You basically are ignoring it. Even if you put Montreal at this clip for the rest of the year, you have them at 93 points. A bubble team. You are just picking and choosing what supports your arguments. Much like "gomezitis." At what point is he just not a good player anymore in your opinion. 100 games without a goal? 200 without a goal? Or you just going to go back to his career stats
True but the odds of us not going on a decent winning streak the entire season are pretty slim imo. If we can use that winning streak to offset our horrible start and continue playing .500 hockey outside of that we should be fine.

You are right though, cannot ignore the first stretch. In fact we need to have a good stretch in order to balance that out.

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12-16-2011, 07:52 AM
  #66
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There is no quick fix for this team. Firing JM won't solve everything, but it will help. It's a step in a new direction, which is exactly what this team needs.

The players we designed this team around (cammy, gio, gomez) aren't cutting it. Meanwhile, players like cole, patch, dd, are doing great. The Kaberle trade was decent value, but I just don't see the point in looking for quick fixes just to make the playoffs. This team doesn't need to go in to full rebuild, but we need to lean more towards being sellers, and creating a new core.

I think a new coach and probably a new gm would be a smart move to compliment a team with a new identity. There is a lot of players I absolutely love on this team, but they are overshadowed by old boys. It's stupid to have lost faith, it's just time to move in a new direction.

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12-16-2011, 07:52 AM
  #67
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I have faith in the team to win DESPITE the coach.....they would win more WITHOUT that coach. Who in their right mind send Mathieu Darche ( a good 4th line guy with alot of heart) to play close to 20 frekin minutes?!?!?!?!?!

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12-16-2011, 07:53 AM
  #68
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after the next 25 games ull say:

-) we are 5-2-3 in our last 10.
-) we lost most of our games by 1 goal.
-) we still are the team with the most injuries.
-) but we are still 10th
-) not a problem we are a 100pt pace team in our last 6.


Zzzz

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12-16-2011, 07:56 AM
  #69
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We need to adress the fact that there are three heavy contract slowing us down right now : Cammalleri, Gomez and Markov.

If these guys don't perform we are royally screwed, 20 millions well spent would make us instant contender considering that appart from this situation the team is pretty sweet. Good prospects and nice talent level on the team... I'd go even further and say that without Gomez's contract, Markov and Cammy's contracts would be way more acceptable. We could have a decent center, an experienced winger, something better than Gomez anyway...

We have long been screwed by the MTL situation, taxes, pressure, etc. But with these contracts off our books, even considering the fact that the replacement would also be overpaid, we should be a lot better.

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12-16-2011, 08:07 AM
  #70
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We need to adress the fact that there are three heavy contract slowing us down right now : Cammalleri, Gomez and Markov.

If these guys don't perform we are royally screwed, 20 millions well spent would make us instant contender considering that appart from this situation the team is pretty sweet. Good prospects and nice talent level on the team... I'd go even further and say that without Gomez's contract, Markov and Cammy's contracts would be way more acceptable. We could have a decent center, an experienced winger, something better than Gomez anyway...

We have long been screwed by the MTL situation, taxes, pressure, etc. But with these contracts off our books, even considering the fact that the replacement would also be overpaid, we should be a lot better.
Gomez will probably be gone by July.

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Old
12-16-2011, 08:08 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Gomez will probably be gone by July.
If he isn't traded, he is back next year

Molson isn't sending him down to eat his contract

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Old
12-16-2011, 08:17 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
If he isn't traded, he is back next year

Molson isn't sending him down to eat his contract
which is exactly what he needs to do to improve this team....or use his connection with BCE to get Gomez shipped off to Toronto....I hear they are the youngest team in the league and could use a vet with Cup experience

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Old
12-16-2011, 08:28 AM
  #73
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Cammy for D Brown

Pleks - Weber for Paul Statsny

Problem solved.

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Old
12-16-2011, 08:33 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Koivu2001 View Post
Jaques ****in Martin needs to GTFO and take ****in Darche with him he just lost the room and I dont blame the players because I would do exactly the same if I was playing for that moron, maybe he is a great human being but ffs hes the worst coach in the league, gets outcoached every night and I just cant take it anymore hes a loser coach with a loser mentality and will never take this team to the next level.
1 regulation loss in the last 7 games and even that is by 1 goal.

When a coach "loses the room" he doesn't have a team that continues to be competitive night in and night out. He has a team that gets the stuffing kicked out of them.

Do we Remember what happened when Carbonneau lost the room? It was on a west coast trip where we got absolutely smoked by Calgary, Edmonton, and Vancouver... no compete whatsoever and losing by 4, 5, 6 goals every game.

That isn't what has happened here.

We have a team that is 12 - 7 - 5 in their last 24 games. Thats NOT losing the room.

I seriously think people expect to go 82-0 or that means the coach is a moron. We have lost 1 regulation game in our last 7? and you are ready to scream about FIRING THE COACH and how he's lost the room?

Give me a break.

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12-16-2011, 08:36 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Ya dam refs cost us the game giving us 9 ****ing pp. Ok the goals could have went either way but seriously 9 pp we should have done better stop blaming the refs they don't run our pp or send Darche out there for almost 20 minutes
What good are Power Plays if your Power Play Goals are disallowed.

Yeah they let us skate 5 on 3 for a little bit, but they didn't allow the goal we scored, so what was the point?

Last I checked... scoring goals, not having PPs is the important stat that determines a winner and loser at the end of the game.

And its not like Philly didn't get any PP chances. They had what? 6?

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