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3 Stars & GBR: Game 29 @ St. Louis Blues

View Poll Results: 3 Stars?
Artem Anisimov 1 1.92%
Ryan Callahan 2 3.85%
Michael Del Zotto 45 86.54%
Brandon Dubinsky 2 3.85%
Steve Eminger 0 0%
Ruslan Fedotenko 1 1.92%
Marian Gaborik 4 7.69%
Dan Girardi 1 1.92%
Carl Hagelin 34 65.38%
Henrik Lundqvist 7 13.46%
Ryan McDonagh 4 7.69%
Brad Richards 0 0%
Derek Stepan 0 0%
Anton Stralman 15 28.85%
Other 1 1.92%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-16-2011, 10:03 AM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSG the place to be View Post
Popsicle Sticks Cromartie should really go to school on how Hagelin plays. Pretty simple.
Gaborik doesn't play that style and Hagelin doesn't play Gaborik's style either.

I wish that every player in the NHL modeled their game after Ryan Callahan: he does it all, but we all know that not every player plays Callahan's style.

The Sedin twins: very talented, but are they going to grind, crash and bang along the boards? No, because it's not their style.

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Old
12-16-2011, 10:04 AM
  #102
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Rainjuhs, I am dissapoint.

Gotta get back on track.

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Old
12-16-2011, 10:06 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Tell me when Hagelin scores anywhere close to 40 goals in a season.

Thanks.
Agreed.

Too many people want Gaborik to dominate games, throw hits, and be a force on every shift.

Not his style, never will be.

Hes a stealthy player that will find a seem with his top-end speed, and be able to finish with his top-end shot. Makes him good for 30-40 goals per season, which is far better than most players in the league.

Note: Those goals count more than bodychecks on the scoreboard, FYI.

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12-16-2011, 10:09 AM
  #104
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Hard to get mad at this team after just 2 losses, but there are concerning events.

I think they just played stupid, un-inspired hockey the past 2 games. Maybe it was because it was against west coast competition, but that's still four major points in the standings. What are they going to do next season when they're playing teams outside of the conference?

MSG and the team seem to be very ready for Rupp to come back to the lineup, but I don't know if I'm the only one who remembers how awful Rupp was in his first 7 games this season. One shot on goal through 7 games (yes, it was a goal) is pretty terrible. Although with Rupp gone Prust has reverted to being just an enforcer and a decent PKer, with Rupp back in some of the onus will be taken off Prust.

It's time to send Mitchell back to Hartford, he was great as a spark when he came up but he's fizzled.

I'd go Rupp and Avery in, Mitchell to the AHL and EC to the bench until Wolski is back. Then re-evaluate. Go back to what worked, and try to balance the lines a little bit...

42-21-10
26-19-24
16-17-62 (Can Hags play RW? I'd be interested to see his speed with Avery's)
71-22-8

My $0.02

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12-16-2011, 10:14 AM
  #105
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Dubinsky and Hagelin on the same line sounds like a great idea.

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12-16-2011, 10:16 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Yea, but dont you see it? Avery MAKES the other 19 guys on the bench play BETTER. Thats an asset that any team in the NHL would want and need. 29 other teams passed on him when he went through re-entry waivers - need to be careful cause the team might not get as lucky next time.
wow. do you do open mic on the weekends? Last night we were pushed around. The Blues were bigger, meaner and largely they decided where we were able to go. We needed someone to step up and push back. Sean Avery will do that. Sometimes, and the coach is a big believer in this, one play can shift momentum which can be retained for a while resulting in a goal or two. You saw last night, that at the end of the second period we were suddenly getting good scoring opportunities. If we had hit the net and/or been more fortunate we could have tied that game or better. Then they get an early lucky goal in the third and we are digging out.

Avery can change momentum. Prust can as well but only with his fists; not with big hits or agitation. Dubi used to do that as did Cally. But were not seeing alot of that these days.

This team needs Sean in the lineup for nights like these last two where a spark is desparately needed. And on other nights he can bury it and he's one of the better forecheckers on the team. You constantly refer to him as the 12th forward to downplay this discussion. However, he is the 12th forward only because of the bias Torts carries around.

If I'm starting a team right now I take him before Boyle, Prust, Feds, EC, and Mitchell. And the jury is now out on Dubi; we'll see if he gets out of this funk. So, he shouldn't be the 12th forward and his impact is bigger than what most teams get from who they consider the last guy on the bench.

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Old
12-16-2011, 10:18 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
Dubinsky and Hagelin on the same line sounds like a great idea.
I think Dubi, Hags and Avery would be great to watch. I asked for this a month ago. They would defend and there is alot of speed to burn.

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12-16-2011, 10:21 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Hard to get mad at this team after just 2 losses, but there are concerning events.

I think they just played stupid, un-inspired hockey the past 2 games. Maybe it was because it was against west coast competition, but that's still four major points in the standings. What are they going to do next season when they're playing teams outside of the conference?

MSG and the team seem to be very ready for Rupp to come back to the lineup, but I don't know if I'm the only one who remembers how awful Rupp was in his first 7 games this season. One shot on goal through 7 games (yes, it was a goal) is pretty terrible. Although with Rupp gone Prust has reverted to being just an enforcer and a decent PKer, with Rupp back in some of the onus will be taken off Prust.

It's time to send Mitchell back to Hartford, he was great as a spark when he came up but he's fizzled.

I'd go Rupp and Avery in, Mitchell to the AHL and EC to the bench until Wolski is back. Then re-evaluate. Go back to what worked, and try to balance the lines a little bit...

42-21-10
26-19-24
16-17-62 (Can Hags play RW? I'd be interested to see his speed with Avery's)
71-22-8

My $0.02
I like it. I'm going to go outside the box here since he will never sit BB. When WW comes back, slot him in on the left side of Richards and have Feds not dress. He has been non-existent and he doesn't play on either special teams units. I didn't want to bring Feds back last summer. And he is making me feel good about that sentiment. Hagelin is everything he used to be and more. The only thing we don't know if Hags will score big playoff goals; but night after night he's a better player than Feds.

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Old
12-16-2011, 10:23 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
However, he is the 12th forward only because of the bias Torts carries around..
No comment emcompasses the BS and lack of understanding regarding the Avery situation better than this one. Thanks for the laugh.

He had a chance to be a 12th or better forward with ANY OTHER TEAM IN THE LEAGUE - literally, any one - and every single one passed. Hes a fringe NHL'er at this point and thats a sad, sad truth for some.

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12-16-2011, 10:28 AM
  #110
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Avery hasn't done anything with his ice time, that's why he's not in the lineup.

By contrast, let's take a player like Hagelin, who made the most of his shifts and got rewarded with more ice time.

A coach can't insert a player into the lineup based on anything other then current performance.

If someone struggles on the 4th line, Avery will probably get another look. If not, oh well.

When Wolski comes back, he's got to play. And Rupp will probably be inserted.

Avery and Christensen can go bye bye as far as im concerned. Let Rupp and Mitchell rotate on the 4th line. Give Hagelin increased responsibility. Kid looks like he can handle it.

Wolski. Richards. Callahan
Hagelin. Stepan. Gaborik
Dubinsky. Anisimov. Fedotenko
Rupp/Mitchell. Boyle. Prust

Or whatever combo you want. But Christensen and Avery aren't world beaters here. Avery is a shell of what he used to be. And Christensen can't hold onto a regular shift, either.

The team has been struggling the last week. And I blame HBO. From an outside perspective, its a distraction. Coincidence they were rolling before HBO showed up? When HBO leaves and the Winter Classic is behind them, and a sense of normalcy returns, I expect the team to return to the 5 game winning streaks.

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Old
12-16-2011, 10:30 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Agreed.

Too many people want Gaborik to dominate games, throw hits, and be a force on every shift.

Not his style, never will be.

Hes a stealthy player that will find a seem with his top-end speed, and be able to finish with his top-end shot. Makes him good for 30-40 goals per season, which is far better than most players in the league.

Note: Those goals count more than bodychecks on the scoreboard, FYI.
Maybe our "best player" should be able to dominate games. Just an idea.

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12-16-2011, 10:30 AM
  #112
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When playing against a physical team like St. Louis, dressing Avery over EC is a no-brainer.

However, I'm not sure if Avery would have changed the outcome of the game, because last night's issues went far beyond Avery/EC. Although Avery would have added some more physicality, I don't think his presence would have prevented the defensive breakdowns in the 1st period, the fluke goal in the 3rd period, or the Rangers' inability to hit the net.

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12-16-2011, 10:39 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by MSG the place to be View Post
Maybe our "best player" should be able to dominate games. Just an idea.
Like I said, hes on pace for 40 goals. Not many players in the league are capable of reaching that plateau. So, in a sense, he does dominate games on the scoresheet. Does he dominate on a shift by shift basis? No, even fewer players do that, and Gaborik never will.

Sorry that he doesnt dominate games the way YOU want him to, but hes still an important and vital piece to this team.

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12-16-2011, 10:43 AM
  #114
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I couldn't help but laugh my a** off last night when in the third period Torts had everyone playing where ever with who ever!!! I know he has his issues with Avery, but just play him!! he definatley would have added more umph against Dallas and I have been saying that I truly think I would try him with Dubi and Hags!! Call it what ever you want, or even deny it, we seem to be a better team with him in the line up, period!!

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12-16-2011, 10:47 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by MAYO View Post
I couldn't help but laugh my a** off last night when in the third period Torts had everyone playing where ever with who ever!!! I know he has his issues with Avery, but just play him!! he definatley would have added more umph against Dallas and I have been saying that I truly think I would try him with Dubi and Hags!! Call it what ever you want, or even deny it, we seem to be a better team with him in the line up, period!!
In my personal opinion, far too many people are searching for one singular reason as to why the last 2 games have gone so poorly. And, for whatever strange reason, Avery is usually the solution that will cure it.

Truth is, theres several issues why the team has been playing poorly this week, and the lack of Sean Avery in the lineup isn't even in the top 50.

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12-16-2011, 10:55 AM
  #116
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I'd like to see Hagelin hang on to the puck a little more, especially when he's flying. He is too unselfish. He needs to be more selfish and just use his speed to get the puck to the net as much as possible. Too often I'm seeing Hagelin make a great defensive play, rush up the ice with the jets on, only to pass it to Boyle or Mitchell who hold onto it for TOO long and lose it. Very few defensemen are going to try to pressure Hagelin with the puck when he's flying that fast. He needs to understand that and carry the puck more. Don't get me wrong. He's been great, not even for a rookie, just in general. I'd just like to see this minor adjustment.

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12-16-2011, 11:11 AM
  #117
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Telling me not having Avery isn't in the top 50 reasons why we lost the last two games is absurd. If you are telling me the guys like EC, Boyle, Prust, Mitch have deserved to be in rather than Avery I think you've been relying on the highlight reels and haven't been watching the games! He energizes this team, and you haters have to stop denying that! And all of the sudden because this team was doing so well you all became Torts lovers, what a joke!! This guy does more juggling in one night then Krusty did in his whole career!

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12-16-2011, 11:29 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
No comment emcompasses the BS and lack of understanding regarding the Avery situation better than this one. Thanks for the laugh.

He had a chance to be a 12th or better forward with ANY OTHER TEAM IN THE LEAGUE - literally, any one - and every single one passed. Hes a fringe NHL'er at this point and thats a sad, sad truth for some.
That's nonsense. Alot of good/useful players make their way through waivers for various reasons including contract considerations, individual needs and in the case of Sean, his reputation. He is not a great fit for all teams, but he is a good fit here and Torts is ignoring that fact and hurting the team as a result.

You should pick up a dictionary and look up the word "truth" and you'll find that you are misusing it. And there's nothing sad about it. Frustrating, yes. Sad, not so much. I'm surprised you didn't object to anything else in the post. Is that because you agree with the rest of it?

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12-16-2011, 11:31 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Avery hasn't done anything with his ice time, that's why he's not in the lineup.

By contrast, let's take a player like Hagelin, who made the most of his shifts and got rewarded with more ice time.

A coach can't insert a player into the lineup based on anything other then current performance.

If someone struggles on the 4th line, Avery will probably get another look. If not, oh well.

When Wolski comes back, he's got to play. And Rupp will probably be inserted.

Avery and Christensen can go bye bye as far as im concerned. Let Rupp and Mitchell rotate on the 4th line. Give Hagelin increased responsibility. Kid looks like he can handle it.

Wolski. Richards. Callahan
Hagelin. Stepan. Gaborik
Dubinsky. Anisimov. Fedotenko
Rupp/Mitchell. Boyle. Prust

Or whatever combo you want. But Christensen and Avery aren't world beaters here. Avery is a shell of what he used to be. And Christensen can't hold onto a regular shift, either.

The team has been struggling the last week. And I blame HBO. From an outside perspective, its a distraction. Coincidence they were rolling before HBO showed up? When HBO leaves and the Winter Classic is behind them, and a sense of normalcy returns, I expect the team to return to the 5 game winning streaks.
Avery has more goals per minute than Crosby. He has done well with limited ice time. Don't believe that just because he doesn't get ice time he hasn't earned it. This is personal which is why his defenders are so loud.

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12-16-2011, 11:41 AM
  #120
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Not much good about this game with the exception of Del Zotto who is really making a mockery of his naysayers.

The Rangers were bound to cool off a bit...and here we are. The difference is that this year I believe they have what it takes to get right back on track.

The other good thing about this game is that it under scores one of the teams key week spots. The Blues used their size and strength to physically dominate the Rangers who had no answer.

If the Rangers want to go deep in the spring they will need to find that answer.

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12-16-2011, 11:47 AM
  #121
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Don't understand the Dubinsky hate from yesterday's game at all.

He and Hagelin looked like the only two on offense who had anything going all night. Easily Dubinsky's best game of the season IMO (even though he missed a shot by 5 feet).

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12-16-2011, 12:41 PM
  #122
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Don't understand the Dubinsky hate from yesterday's game at all.

He and Hagelin looked like the only two on offense who had anything going all night. Easily Dubinsky's best game of the season IMO (even though he missed a shot by 5 feet).
1 goal in nearly 3 months for 4 mill per. That's the reason.

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12-16-2011, 12:59 PM
  #123
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1 goal in nearly 3 months for 4 mill per. That's the reason.
I understand the hate overall from the season, im just talking about yesterday's game. People are saying he was terrible last night when that just wasn't true.

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12-16-2011, 01:06 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by HagelinFan62 View Post
I understand the hate overall from the season, im just talking about yesterday's game. People are saying he was terrible last night when that just wasn't true.
Regardless, there was still a 0 in his G column. And even if he did get an assist, his 1 goal overall this year is laughably bad. Until he starts scoring again he's going to get hated on. And rightfully so. This is well past the point of a slump.

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12-16-2011, 01:09 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by HagelinFan62 View Post
I understand the hate overall from the season, im just talking about yesterday's game. People are saying he was terrible last night when that just wasn't true.
It's always the same thing w/fans. Guy hits the first major slump in his career....and it's time to trash then trade him. Always a well thought out and useful mode of thinking combined with a ton of foresight.

The fact that Dubi just signed his first major contract informs much of the thinking that goes into the posts.

Dubi is one of the few players we have that come playoff time can deal effectively with the type of game a physical team like the Blues would come at us with.

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