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Feb 8 update posted: Pronger (concussion) likely out for the season

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12-16-2011, 10:57 AM
  #551
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
It seems from that article that Pronger, as I suspected, came back from that close call with his eye ignoring concussion symptoms. They spoke about how he thought that the groggyness he felt after coming back was just him getting his wind back. It's a really sad article.

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12-16-2011, 10:58 AM
  #552
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I'd like to roll with MAB and Gus for a little while to see what we have there. They never develop young dman but this seems like the perfect team at the perfect time to do it. I think the all kid team has a good strong bond between them so let's continue to roll with it. MAB is certainly not killing them and I think Gus can be an asset as well. Ya, it's nuts to roll with two rooks on D but then again this is the all rookie team so why stop now. When Schenn returns they'll likely have 7, yes 7 rookies in their starting lineup. I still can't wrap my mind around that and not only are they getting experience but they are currently the highest scoring team with the most points in the entire league. Completely shocking.

This is a "rebuild" or reboot year in that they are starting a number of young guys and letting them get some good ice time. Let's let the kids develop a bit and not make another knee jerk reaction where we deal a 1st rounder for a decent player but not a long term solution (Versteeg). This team is on the right track and with a deep draft next year lets keep our early picks and see if we can add another long term gem into the mix through the draft....
This is what I'm thinking as well right now...when we think of players as simply "assets" we fail to account for the fact that they can improve in unpredictable ways.

I definitely think for now we need to let the kids get some experience and if we find a good trade, maybe make a trade at the deadline.

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12-16-2011, 11:02 AM
  #553
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Originally Posted by Cmoneyflyguy View Post
Thanks Doc.
Pronger is too much of a warrior to not at least try and come back.
And if all hope is lost, he'll continue to "try" (I hope) and not screw the Flyers by retiring.
I don't know.

He has three kids, ages 10, 7, and 3, two bad knees, probably came close to losing an eye a month ago, and probably suffers daily from a handful of the following: nausea, vertigo, headache, fatigue, blurred or double vision, short term memory loss, loss of fine motor control.

And, as far as I can recall, no one saw him get concussed, he didn't get plowed, so it must have been routine play that did this to him (edit: or that blow to the eye).

I just feel like it's over.

Same with Crosby.

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12-16-2011, 11:03 AM
  #554
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
That....sounds more like brain damage.

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12-16-2011, 11:05 AM
  #555
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
I don't know.

He has three kids, ages 10, 7, and 3, two bad knees, probably came close to losing an eye a month ago, and probably suffers daily from a handful of the following: nausea, vertigo, headache, fatigue, blurred or double vision, short term memory loss, loss of fine motor control.

And, as far as I can recall, no one saw him get concussed, he didn't get plowed, so it must have been routine play that did this to him (edit: or that blow to the eye).

I just feel like it's over.

Same with Crosby.
Yeah--no. I think he meant that Pronger hurts the Flyers by officially retiring, without getting any benefit from it. If he is done, he will go into Lappy / Rathje mode and take a very, very long-term approach to getting healthy... about a five-year approach.

He continues to get paid, the Flyers get the LTIR relief. If he retires, we have a significant problem, but I don't think that's in his best financial interest.

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12-16-2011, 11:06 AM
  #556
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
Ggane took 2 very pedestrian looking hits (Bouwmeester and Roberts) that shut him down for a season. Ggane never even hit the ice after either hit.
You're right, he has come back from the brink.

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12-16-2011, 11:07 AM
  #557
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
If he retires, we have a significant problem
Why is that?

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12-16-2011, 11:09 AM
  #558
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Why is that?
Because we don't get to LTIR him, and we still have to swallow his cap hit.

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12-16-2011, 11:09 AM
  #559
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
I don't know.

He has three kids, ages 10, 7, and 3, two bad knees, probably came close to losing an eye a month ago, and probably suffers daily from a handful of the following: nausea, vertigo, headache, fatigue, blurred or double vision, short term memory loss, loss of fine motor control.

And, as far as I can recall, no one saw him get concussed, he didn't get plowed, so it must have been routine play that did this to him (edit: or that blow to the eye).

I just feel like it's over.

Same with Crosby
.
As a hockey fan, I really, really hope that the Penguins' decision to let him play (and not be cautious) following the Winter Classic isn't the decision that changed everything. That Hedman hit definitely did something.

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12-16-2011, 11:15 AM
  #560
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Pens fan is peace. That news is awful. I hope Giroux and Timonen are back soon. These concussions need to be addressed ASAP. I hope we both can overcome and we kill each other in the conference finals! Sad to hear the news again.
Basically my exact thoughts.

I'm very sorry guys. I definitely want to see the Flyers and Pens both hit the top of the East together. This concussion business is rediculous. No one deserves a concussion.

Giroux is one of the more skilled players in this league, he has rediculous hands. I want to see him playing, not sidelined. This Pronger business is just a kick to the groin for Flyers' fans. All the best to you.

EDIT: And if you ever feel like venting about this concussion BS, you're welcome on the Penguins' board. We get how frustrating this has to be for you guys.

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12-16-2011, 11:28 AM
  #561
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Because we don't get to LTIR him, and we still have to swallow his cap hit.
Isn't there some kind of medical waiver or something like that? Like what the Flyers did with Rathje? Isn't Lappy kind of the same situation? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just thought there were ways around it for medical emergencies like this. Anyone have any insight on this? That would be the only silver lining to this otherwise terrible situation.

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12-16-2011, 11:29 AM
  #562
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Rangers fan here. That's just awful. The NY Times had the whole article on Boogaard's decreased quality of life prior to his untimely death. Had he lived until 50, chances are, even at that age, that he would've been low-functioning due to brain damage. I have nothing but respect for Pronger and all that he's done, but if I'm him I'd call it a career. At some point you have to think about your future.

I'm really sorry to hear about all this, and if you guys win it all this year, which is a distinct possibility, his name had better go on the friggin Cup. He deserves it.

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12-16-2011, 11:34 AM
  #563
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Isn't there some kind of medical waiver or something like that? Like what the Flyers did with Rathje? Isn't Lappy kind of the same situation? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just thought there were ways around it for medical emergencies like this. Anyone have any insight on this? That would be the only silver lining to this otherwise terrible situation.
They were on LTIR. 5 years is a long time to keep having to come to camp and try to make a comeback even though you know you can't. The CBA is up soon, hopefully they put a clause in there to amend the 35+ year old contract rule. Something about non age related/non hockey related injuries. A team shouldn't have to suffer because of a concussion, or someone falling off a ladder at their house (just an example).


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12-16-2011, 11:35 AM
  #564
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Because we don't get to LTIR him, and we still have to swallow his cap hit.
If he retires, we eat his cap hit every year for the duration of the contract?

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12-16-2011, 11:37 AM
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If he retires, we eat his cap hit every year for the duration of the contract?
Yes. Because he is a 35+ contract.

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12-16-2011, 11:38 AM
  #566
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Isn't there some kind of medical waiver or something like that? Like what the Flyers did with Rathje? Isn't Lappy kind of the same situation? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just thought there were ways around it for medical emergencies like this. Anyone have any insight on this? That would be the only silver lining to this otherwise terrible situation.
He can go on LTIR as long as he is still trying to come back / not retired. I'm not sure what requirements need be met--Lappy didn't suit up, but was at training camp. I'm assuming its something like that, but I'll defer to someone who better knows the details.

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12-16-2011, 11:38 AM
  #567
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If he retires, we eat his cap hit every year for the duration of the contract?
Yep.

There's a new CBA this summer and I have a feeling that Snider will push hard for an amendment to the 35+ rule.

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12-16-2011, 11:44 AM
  #568
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Yep.

There's a new CBA this summer and I have a feeling that Snider will push hard for an amendment to the 35+ rule.
There really should be an amendment. Teams shouldn't be stuck with a contract when the injury doesn't come from wear and tear. There should be some kind of exception, but it's difficult to figure out what should be excluded. There definitely needs to be a non hockey injury exclusion in there though.

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12-16-2011, 11:45 AM
  #569
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I think if he is cleared two to three years down the road he probably will just call it a career and remain on there if it come to that. The new CBA will have a lot to do with Prongers situation. First and fore most he has to get healthy to even think about this stuff.
If he is medically cleared, he CANNOT remain on LTIR.

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12-16-2011, 11:47 AM
  #570
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Bruins fan coming in peace. Hoping the best for Pronger, he's a legend. Good luck guys.

Edit: Giroux too of course.

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12-16-2011, 11:52 AM
  #571
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If he is medically cleared, he CANNOT remain on LTIR.
With PCS, there is a very strong chance that's never medically cleared--particularly if he didn't want to be. Let's say the doctor reasonably insists on a headache-free period of a three months before he returns to the ice. How many times a month do you come down with a moderate headache? Now imagine you've been a professional hockey player for fifteen years.

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12-16-2011, 11:52 AM
  #572
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Just do away with the 35+ rule. Change the rule that when over 35, there is a maximum contract term based on current age. 35, 5 years max, 36, 4 years max, ... , 40+ 1 year max

Still accomplishes the point of the rule to prevent teams from signing old players for longer than they attend to play

Removes the punishment that a 36 year old player can get a life altering concussion and stick a team with their cap hit. It's kind of stupid and and not necessary at all

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12-16-2011, 11:53 AM
  #573
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Just do away with the 35+ rule. Change the rule that when over 35, there is a maximum contract term based on current age. 35, 5 years max, 36, 4 years max, ... , 40+ 1 year max

Still accomplishes the point of the rule to prevent teams from signing old players for longer than they attend to play

Removes the punishment that a 36 year old player can get a life altering concussion and stick a team with their cap hit. It's kind of stupid and and not necessary at all
I actually like this idea. Not bad not bad

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12-16-2011, 11:54 AM
  #574
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With PCS, there is a very strong chance that's never medically cleared--particularly if he didn't want to be. Let's say the doctor reasonably insists on a headache-free period of a three months before he returns to the ice. How many times a month do you come down with a moderate headache? Now imagine you've been a professional hockey player for fifteen years.
Oh, I agree with that. I was just saying that if for some reason he was medically cleared, the Flyers don't have the option of 'retiring him with LTIR'. If he gets cleared, he has to play.

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12-16-2011, 11:55 AM
  #575
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
Just do away with the 35+ rule. Change the rule that when over 35, there is a maximum contract term based on current age. 35, 5 years max, 36, 4 years max, ... , 40+ 1 year max

Still accomplishes the point of the rule to prevent teams from signing old players for longer than they attend to play

Removes the punishment that a 36 year old player can get a life altering concussion and stick a team with their cap hit. It's kind of stupid and and not necessary at all
You might be on to something here

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