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Mr. Snider Picks Up The Phone, "hey Pauly Get Me Suter Or Weber Without Giving Up.. "

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Old
12-16-2011, 01:06 PM
  #26
Jack de la Hoya
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Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
It may be a rarity but not an impossibility..you know like the trade that went down this summer.

All I'm saying is that we can't predict the needs of multiple teams come the deadline and how a multiple team deal can facilitate. That's all
THat's fine. I get your point. It's possible. Highly unlikely, but possible. We could, for instance, flip Bob to someone for a 2nd and send that second with a package for a defenseman.

I think the bigger issue is that you are dramatically overrating Bob's trade value. He's a nice chip, but I don't think he's proven enough to be a key cog in a trade for a top-pairing defenseman, regardless of the team involved.

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12-16-2011, 01:07 PM
  #27
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Why would Nashville want to trade either Weber or Suter at the deadline? They will be making their own playoff push. Plus, they have said on numerous occasions that they will increase their payroll to keep both of them.

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12-16-2011, 01:10 PM
  #28
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I like beauchemin, he's solid and shouldn't be too costly. Homers got 2nd's burning a hole in his pocket. Even without pronger the flyers top 4 is still pretty good. Get a solid vet for the 5th guy that plays SH. MAB, GUS, lily for the 6th. And hope G comes back.

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12-16-2011, 01:11 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
I think we should honestly give up the idea of trading for Suter or Weber. I really doubt it happens. IMO
The price given our situation would be pretty high. I dont want to give up draft picks in this coming draft. especially high ones
And the fact that there is ZERO real talk (from non pie in the sky message boarders) in the NSH is going to trade them department.

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12-16-2011, 01:13 PM
  #30
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Have the Flyers ever drafted and developed a real #1 defenseman?

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12-16-2011, 01:14 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Why would Nashville want to trade either Weber or Suter at the deadline? They will be making their own playoff push. Plus, they have said on numerous occasions that they will increase their payroll to keep both of them.
Because 1) they are two points from out of the playoffs right now, and 2) they risk losing Suter at the end of the season for nothing. While their claims about increasing payroll are well-publicized, few think they will be a cap-ceiling team, and keeping their "big 3" will cost ~$21 million in cap space annually.

Weber is under control one more year--albiet at a high QO of 7.5. But Suter can walk. If the team does not have a contract extension in place with Suter at the deadline, they face a difficult choice--try to make a run that might be enough to persuade both to resign long-term (while risking losing a top defenseman for nothing), or move him for the best package.

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12-16-2011, 01:16 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Have the Flyers ever drafted and developed a real #1 defenseman?
Joni Pitkanen? A little, somewhat, maybe?? I mean they did draft him! Nope I don't think so

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12-16-2011, 01:17 PM
  #33
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Or they trade Suter a week before FA and get something.

I know one team that won't have a problem giving them something.

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12-16-2011, 01:17 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Joni Pitkanen? A little, somewhat, maybe?? I mean they did draft him! Nope I don't think so
Yeah he's the most recent one I can think of, but it didn't really go all that well.

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12-16-2011, 01:18 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by duffy9748 View Post
If were giving up one of JVR/Schenn/Couturier then I want Weber. I'd give up 2 first rounders+ for Suter though.
We'd have to free salary for him.

Either way I feel it starts with JvR/1st for either or, and then add pieces either way.

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12-16-2011, 01:20 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Why would Nashville want to trade either Weber or Suter at the deadline? They will be making their own playoff push. Plus, they have said on numerous occasions that they will increase their payroll to keep both of them.
I've given up trying to explain the 2nd part of your statement. I mean I feel if we put together the right package, we can get one of them from NSH.

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Old
12-16-2011, 01:35 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Because 1) they are two points from out of the playoffs right now, and 2) they risk losing Suter at the end of the season for nothing. While their claims about increasing payroll are well-publicized, few think they will be a cap-ceiling team, and keeping their "big 3" will cost ~$21 million in cap space annually.

Weber is under control one more year--albiet at a high QO of 7.5. But Suter can walk. If the team does not have a contract extension in place with Suter at the deadline, they face a difficult choice--try to make a run that might be enough to persuade both to resign long-term (while risking losing a top defenseman for nothing), or move him for the best package.
Also right now Nashville have only 12 of this years 21 players signed next year. 5 of those 9 are RFA's (Weber included) and 4 of the 9 are their defense (Weber and Suter included) and they have only $33m to get them all signed up in total cap space (though that will likely change).

Rinne's deal more that doubles next year so even if they expand their spending they don't have a lot of room to play with. Not only that but Weber didn't exactly dive at the offers he got from Nashville this past year so it looks like a longer term cheaper cap deal might not be on the cards either. You'd be thinking Suter is gonna get a much bigger deal too.

If they resign those two they would be a pretty weak team depth wise. Weber and Suter are their only positive D-men in the +/- column as it is...

They might not want to trade but they are most likely gonna be crippling themselves unless they do some very shrewd business for depth players in the summer... (Oh and the year after next the have another 9 players either UFA or RFA...)

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Old
12-16-2011, 01:41 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by JoeFlyer View Post
Also right now Nashville have only 12 of this years 21 players signed next year. 5 of those 9 are RFA's (Weber included) and 4 of the 9 are their defense (Weber and Suter included) and they have only $33m to get them all signed up in total cap space (though that will likely change).

Rinne's deal more that doubles next year so even if they expand their spending they don't have a lot of room to play with. Not only that but Weber didn't exactly dive at the offers he got from Nashville this past year so it looks like a longer term cheaper cap deal might not be on the cards either. You'd be thinking Suter is gonna get a much bigger deal too.

If they resign those two they would be a pretty weak team depth wise. Weber and Suter are their only positive D-men in the +/- column as it is...

They might not want to trade but they are most likely gonna be crippling themselves unless they do some very shrewd business for depth players in the summer... (Oh and the year after next the have another 9 players either UFA or RFA...)
So what you're saying is that you agree with me?

This is why no one outside of Nashville believes both Suter and Weber will be back. Someone still needs to score goals, and they have a strong defensive prospect pool (Blum, Ellis, Josi, etc.)

Will we be in for whichever of Suter or Weber become available? Who knows. But it would be a big move. And Chairman Ed likes big moves.

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12-16-2011, 01:46 PM
  #39
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The players I would definitely not trade are Giroux, Couturier and Read. I'd also like to keep JVR, I still believe in him becoming a superstar, but for a weber/suter type of player, we have to give some high caliber players.

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12-16-2011, 01:53 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by YuioIklo View Post
The players I would definitely not trade are Giroux, Couturier and Read. I'd also like to keep JVR, I still believe in him becoming a superstar, but for a weber/suter type of player, we have to give some high caliber players.
Wait. So you would honestly rather trade: Schenn, JVR, Voracek, Simmonds, Mez, Coburn, Bob, etc.... than Matt Read?

He's a nice player. But this hype is getting a little out of hand...

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12-16-2011, 01:55 PM
  #41
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I am all for the flyers acquiring Suter or Weber, but not at the cost it would take. Their best bet is to get Gleason for a 2nd(flyers should have two this year with Florida doing so well) and one of wellwood/Akeson/Ranford. That is well above the going rate for a rental. Ride out the year and sign Suter in the offseason. With Suter, the Flyers have a better chance to win the cup this year but not that much better than with Gleason (a Prosect like Schenn better) Boston won with Dennis Seidenberg, who is about the same caliber of defensemen as Gleason in my opinion) being their second best defenseman.

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12-16-2011, 02:01 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Have the Flyers ever drafted and developed a real #1 defenseman?
The last guy they drafted and stuck with the team long-term was Therien. They traded for Desjardins, Howe and McCrimmon. Work backwards from there.

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12-16-2011, 02:02 PM
  #43
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Trade freeze into effect starting tomorrow and lasting ten days, wouldn't expect anything until the new year.

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Old
12-16-2011, 02:02 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Wait. So you would honestly rather trade: Schenn, JVR, Voracek, Simmonds, Mez, Coburn, Bob, etc.... than Matt Read?

He's a nice player. But this hype is getting a little out of hand...
I think he is talking about pricing here. 900k player for the next 2 years (after this one) who plays on the pk, pp, and produces points. Obviously if its to get a top end player, you trade who you need to trade, but you gotta remember, we are not going to be swimming in cap space. 40+ point players who play in multiple spots and up and down the lineup and make under 1 mil are hard to come by.

Also yea I'd probably trade Bob first. Having Breezy for the next 25 years kinda makes Bob expendable. I like him, but honestly, I would trade him for a 1st round pick easily (and I do think teams would give up that much for him)

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12-16-2011, 02:04 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
Wait. So you would honestly rather trade: Schenn, JVR, Voracek, Simmonds, Mez, Coburn, Bob, etc.... than Matt Read?

He's a nice player. But this hype is getting a little out of hand...
He's a cheaper player though... And he's at least as good as Voracek and Simmonds... And putting up more points than JVR atm

Schenn I see as someone who is nice to have but are we really gonna need 3 top line centres (with Giroux and Couturier)? JVR we should keep, power forwards take linger to develop and he's not hurting the team and isn't in a possition we have loads of depth. Dealing him would create another problem for us, dealing Schenn wouldn't.

Bob is also expendable in my book, as is Carle but not Mesz or Coburn.

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Old
12-16-2011, 02:47 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Have the Flyers ever drafted and developed a real #1 defenseman?
The Flyers have drafted just over 100 defensemen. Only 17 players have played more than 82 games with the Flyers:

Joni Pitkanen (1st rounder)
Dennis Seidenberg (just barely)
Jaane Niinimaa
Dmitri Yushkevich
Chris Therien
Murray Baron (83 games)
Kerry Huffman (1st rounder)
Gord Murphy
Jeff Chychrun
Miroslav Dvorak
Thomas Eriksson
Glen Cochrane
Behn Wilson (1st rounder)
Kevin McCarthy (barely) (1st rounder)
Larry Goodenough
Jimmy Watson
Tom Bladon

Pretty pathetic list considering a lot of them are old-timers. Most of the other defensemen never reached the NHL.

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Old
12-16-2011, 02:48 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Have the Flyers ever drafted and developed a real #1 defenseman?
Jimmy Watson, maybe.


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Old
12-16-2011, 02:55 PM
  #48
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Do we really need a guy like Suter/Weber? If they are going to trade for one I would want Suter, but right now the top 4 is pretty good. if we can add a defenseman that can play between 12-15 quality minutes in the playoffs I would be happy with that. Because right now the top 4 are pretty good.

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12-16-2011, 03:01 PM
  #49
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The top 4 isn't broke. Why are we trying to fix it? Why do we absolutely have to have 5 top 3 defensemen?

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12-16-2011, 03:04 PM
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Why tear the team apart? Carolina is not going anywhere this year. Tim Gleason and Bryan Allen would be good additions who will not cost a arm and leg, I am a big fan of both. There are others who would help without a massive overpayment. Come back Luca!! You do not need a Bobby Orr type to win a cup. Just wait until some more teams are out of the playoffs then make a move.

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