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Feb 8 update posted: Pronger (concussion) likely out for the season

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Old
12-16-2011, 02:03 PM
  #601
Jack de la Hoya
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
I feel like it would be handled better by putting in restrictions on contract term. I think it achieves the same effect.

Theres also a possibility that a 35+ player could one day wake up and decide he's sick of playing and stick the team with the cap hit, and it was not part of a circumvention conspiracy. Unlikely but if someone pulled a Legein on you it would be frustrating
It doesn't achieve the same effect--there is always room for manipulation with regard to retirements. It might mitigate the scope of that manipulation, but it won't eliminate it entirely.

As to the second point--two things. 1) I think it's fair to say that if you get to 35 in the NHL, your work ethic is probably well-established, and thus the comparison to an entitled--if talented--kid, is a bit off the mark; 2) that's probably why teams shouldn't give 7 year contract extensions to 35 year olds.

If anything, this is simply an object lesson in why organizations need to know about the 35+ rule before, you know, negotiating an extension.

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12-16-2011, 02:03 PM
  #602
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I don't think that's right. If you aren't medically cleared to practice, then you don't need to practice to show that you are trying to return.

Basically, as long as he isn't medically cleared to practice or play, and decides not to voluntarily retire, the Flyers problem is more an inconvenience (less flexibility in the offseason) than a catastrophe. As long as Pronger is stands to take in millions of dollars just to not say he's retiring, I'm fairly confident he won't.

The last two years of his deal, when he stands to make "just" 525, would be the only time I could really imagine him voluntarily walking away.
And if he does that, the team still has his cap hit for those years of $4.9 million. It would be a dick move on his part.

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12-16-2011, 02:03 PM
  #603
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Could be waiting to see if Gus can continue his play into a bigger role first before making a trade.

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12-16-2011, 02:03 PM
  #604
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I'm not expert on LTIR but I would guess that if you're on LTIR you have to make some sort of effort to make a return. If his brain injury won't allow him to be cleared to play again, he will be unable to make that effort regardless, thus be forced into retirement, where his cap hit will effect everything.

I don't know if that's true or not but might explain why everyone is going nuts.
Nope. Each offseason, Pronger is back on the teams salary cap. If the Doctors prevent Pronger from playing hockey due to an injury, then he is put on LTIR. The NHL can dispute if they believe the player is able to play; Clearly, in this case, it is legit.

The Flyers are able to go 10% over the cap until the start of the season. Therefore, in the current world, they can have a payroll including Pronger up to 66 million before the beginning of camp. Once camp starts, Pronger is on LTIR and the Flyers are under the cap using LTIR. Really, there is no issue.

Next year, Pronger might come back. Great. If however the Doctors say, nope, your done. Then he goes on LTIR and we spend that money on a free agent D-man to replace him. He won't be as good.....but that is a different question.

System works.

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12-16-2011, 02:04 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
I don't think that's right. If you aren't medically cleared to practice, then you don't need to practice to show that you are trying to return.

Basically, as long as he isn't medically cleared to practice or play, and decides not to voluntarily retire, the Flyers problem is more an inconvenience (less flexibility in the offseason) than a catastrophe. As long as Pronger is stands to take in millions of dollars just to not say he's retiring, I'm fairly confident he won't.

The last two years of his deal, when he stands to make "just" 525, would be the only time I could really imagine him voluntarily walking away.
Cant see that either. 500k for not filling out paperwork. Who walks away from that.

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12-16-2011, 02:08 PM
  #606
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
Cant see that either. 500k for not filling out paperwork. Who walks away from that.
I know I wouldn't. I'm just saying, that's the first time I could imagine it even being a possibility.

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12-16-2011, 02:25 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
Cant see that either. 500k for not filling out paperwork. Who walks away from that.
The more important question is; does Pronger want to put himself at risk once he is cleared to play. From what I have heard; Pronger is very upset and scared about this injury. At some point over the next 5 years; his concussion symptoms will go away and he will be cleared to play - but will he want to? Does he want to take the risk of another concussion when it could mean going through the same thing all over again.

If he is cleared to play next year or the year after, he might retire. And that would be a HUGE problem.

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12-16-2011, 02:34 PM
  #608
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The more important question is; does Pronger want to put himself at risk once he is cleared to play. From what I have heard; Pronger is very upset and scared about this injury. At some point over the next 5 years; his concussion symptoms will go away and he will be cleared to play - but will he want to? Does he want to take the risk of another concussion when it could mean going through the same thing all over again.

If he is cleared to play next year or the year after, he might retire. And that would be a HUGE problem.
Yes, it would. But Pronger also largely controls whether he ever gets cleared to play again. Two years from now, let's say he is generally asymptomatic without returning to play. He has no interest in risking his future welfare by returning to the ice. He also stands to gain $11 million more in salary by not retiring. The Flyers stnad to lose $5 million in cap space a year, and probably don't pay Pronger's salary anyway (insurance).

Option A: Pronger retires, gives up the money, screws the Flyers, and lets the insurance company off the hook.

Option B: Chris mentions to the doctor that he had a minor headache, gets himself shut-down for six more months. Rinse, repeat as necessary for two more years. Pronger gets his long-term health, the Flyers get short-term cap relief, and the insurance company foots the bill.

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12-16-2011, 02:40 PM
  #609
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Hey guys wanted to step in and wish your warrior a full recovery and the ability to live his life without any problems and second that he will be back playing hockey.

Love his ironman approach you will see nothing can stop him, good luck guys!

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12-16-2011, 02:56 PM
  #610
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I donno why nobody here sees this or agrees with me on this .. but the Flyers face an epic disaster which will render the team uncompetitive for years.. the combination of Pronger's passing and the inevitable collapse of the elderly Timo under the increased pressure of being the 'only' star Dman...

People will say I am exagerrating but I INSIST that this is no exagerration:

Philly has NO CHOICE. They HAVE TO .. have to somehow nab Suter or Weber in a long contract. Look, I dont understand all the ins and outs of feasibility on this.. all I know is that has lost Pronger and will also lose Timo soon (and yes, slowing down or reduced effectivelness is to me the same as losing him) ... and EVEN IF THEY HAVE TO GET RID OF EVERYONE and OFFER 8 mil/yr for 8 years.. they MUST do it/

Philly is on the point of a disaster and everyone acts like all is well.

Guys, this is NOT the time for bizness as usual. Imagine the Flyers with no Porngs and no Timo. That's what's coming. We need to take action NOW.

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12-16-2011, 03:05 PM
  #611
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
I donno why nobody here sees this or agrees with me on this .. but the Flyers face an epic disaster which will render the team uncompetitive for years.. the combination of Pronger's passing and the inevitable collapse of the elderly Timo under the increased pressure of being the 'only' star Dman...

People will say I am exagerrating but I INSIST that this is no exagerration:

Philly has NO CHOICE. They HAVE TO .. have to somehow nab Suter or Weber in a long contract. Look, I dont understand all the ins and outs of feasibility on this.. all I know is that has lost Pronger and will also lose Timo soon (and yes, slowing down or reduced effectivelness is to me the same as losing him) ... and EVEN IF THEY HAVE TO GET RID OF EVERYONE and OFFER 8 mil/yr for 8 years.. they MUST do it/

Philly is on the point of a disaster and everyone acts like all is well.

Guys, this is NOT the time for bizness as usual. Imagine the Flyers with no Porngs and no Timo. That's what's coming. We need to take action NOW.
Pronger died?!?

Jesus... this team.

First it was just a virus, then it was a knee problem, then it was a concussion, then it was severe post concussion syndrome and now it turns out he's dead?!?

We really need to get a new medical staff...

And no, we don't need to get Suter or Weber. The team has actually been better without Pronger than they were with him. And Matt Carle has stepped up huge in his absence. This team doesn't "NEED" to do anything. If the price is right on Suter or Weber, sure, kick the tires on them. But otherwise? Wait till the offseason.

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12-16-2011, 03:09 PM
  #612
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
I donno why nobody here sees this or agrees with me on this .. but the Flyers face an epic disaster which will render the team uncompetitive for years.. the combination of Pronger's passing and the inevitable collapse of the elderly Timo under the increased pressure of being the 'only' star Dman...

People will say I am exagerrating but I INSIST that this is no exagerration:

Philly has NO CHOICE. They HAVE TO .. have to somehow nab Suter or Weber in a long contract. Look, I dont understand all the ins and outs of feasibility on this.. all I know is that has lost Pronger and will also lose Timo soon (and yes, slowing down or reduced effectivelness is to me the same as losing him) ... and EVEN IF THEY HAVE TO GET RID OF EVERYONE and OFFER 8 mil/yr for 8 years.. they MUST do it/

Philly is on the point of a disaster and everyone acts like all is well.

Guys, this is NOT the time for bizness as usual. Imagine the Flyers with no Porngs and no Timo. That's what's coming. We need to take action NOW.

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12-16-2011, 03:16 PM
  #613
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They supposedly took action when they traded for Andrej Meszaros

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12-16-2011, 03:22 PM
  #614
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They supposedly took action when they traded for Andrej Meszaros
Guess the team cant function without 5 top 4 defenders...

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12-16-2011, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jeh82 View Post
I don't think that's right. If you aren't medically cleared to practice, then you don't need to practice to show that you are trying to return.

Basically, as long as he isn't medically cleared to practice or play, and decides not to voluntarily retire, the Flyers problem is more an inconvenience (less flexibility in the offseason) than a catastrophe. As long as Pronger is stands to take in millions of dollars just to not say he's retiring, I'm fairly confident he won't.

The last two years of his deal, when he stands to make "just" 525, would be the only time I could really imagine him voluntarily walking away.
In that case he just sits back and takes a payday. And considering the Flyers are, for arguments sake, owned by Comcast, I can't see them wanting to nickel and dime him, so he'll get his payday with no argument from the Flyers.

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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Nope. Each offseason, Pronger is back on the teams salary cap. If the Doctors prevent Pronger from playing hockey due to an injury, then he is put on LTIR. The NHL can dispute if they believe the player is able to play; Clearly, in this case, it is legit.

The Flyers are able to go 10% over the cap until the start of the season. Therefore, in the current world, they can have a payroll including Pronger up to 66 million before the beginning of camp. Once camp starts, Pronger is on LTIR and the Flyers are under the cap using LTIR. Really, there is no issue.

Next year, Pronger might come back. Great. If however the Doctors say, nope, your done. Then he goes on LTIR and we spend that money on a free agent D-man to replace him. He won't be as good.....but that is a different question.

System works.
Pretty much what I said above. Then there's no problem.

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12-16-2011, 03:35 PM
  #616
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
I donno why nobody here sees this or agrees with me on this .. but the Flyers face an epic disaster which will render the team uncompetitive for years.. the combination of Pronger's passing and the inevitable collapse of the elderly Timo under the increased pressure of being the 'only' star Dman...

People will say I am exagerrating but I INSIST that this is no exagerration:

Philly has NO CHOICE. They HAVE TO .. have to somehow nab Suter or Weber in a long contract. Look, I dont understand all the ins and outs of feasibility on this.. all I know is that has lost Pronger and will also lose Timo soon (and yes, slowing down or reduced effectivelness is to me the same as losing him) ... and EVEN IF THEY HAVE TO GET RID OF EVERYONE and OFFER 8 mil/yr for 8 years.. they MUST do it/

Philly is on the point of a disaster and everyone acts like all is well.

Guys, this is NOT the time for bizness as usual. Imagine the Flyers with no Porngs and no Timo. That's what's coming. We need to take action NOW.
Our 7-game winning streak without Pronger points and laughs at this post.

Other thing worth noting is that this post acts as if Homer has a track record of looking long-term in his decisions.


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12-16-2011, 03:39 PM
  #617
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
I donno why nobody here sees this or agrees with me on this .. but the Flyers face an epic disaster which will render the team uncompetitive for years.. the combination of Pronger's passing and the inevitable collapse of the elderly Timo under the increased pressure of being the 'only' star Dman...

People will say I am exagerrating but I INSIST that this is no exagerration:

Philly has NO CHOICE. They HAVE TO .. have to somehow nab Suter or Weber in a long contract. Look, I dont understand all the ins and outs of feasibility on this.. all I know is that has lost Pronger and will also lose Timo soon (and yes, slowing down or reduced effectivelness is to me the same as losing him) ... and EVEN IF THEY HAVE TO GET RID OF EVERYONE and OFFER 8 mil/yr for 8 years.. they MUST do it/

Philly is on the point of a disaster and everyone acts like all is well.

Guys, this is NOT the time for bizness as usual. Imagine the Flyers with no Porngs and no Timo. That's what's coming. We need to take action NOW.
BryzgalovIt'sJustHockey.gif

Relax. We can't do anything to change it. The Flyers need to add defensive depth but it takes time. It's not a disaster.

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12-16-2011, 03:57 PM
  #618
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Do we know if an insurance company is even involved? Keep in mind if Pronger lies about still having symptoms so that he can keep getting paid while not playing, that's fraud. You're opening up a whole new can of worms here.

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12-16-2011, 04:07 PM
  #619
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Do we know if an insurance company is even involved? Keep in mind if Pronger lies about still having symptoms so that he can keep getting paid while not playing, that's fraud. You're opening up a whole new can of worms here.


It isn't lying if he has a headache. Maybe Richards can come back to visit and take him out for a beer.

In truth, I have no idea what role, if any insurance plays. It was something mentioned above, so I ran with it for the sake or argument.

My point is that concussions and PCS are so complicated that only Pronger will ever know if he's mentally sharp enough to compete athletically. If he doesn't want to get cleared to play, he won't.

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12-16-2011, 04:20 PM
  #620
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Losing Pronger sucks but we've been without him most all year and we're still #1. People talk about Kimmo retiring like we couldn't spend his money elsewhere. There are always d-men available.

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12-16-2011, 04:35 PM
  #621
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
Our 7-game winning streak without Pronger points and laughs at this post.

Other thing worth noting is that this post acts as if Homer has a track record of looking long-term in his decisions.
I agree on your first point. On your second point; Homer still gets no credit from Flyer fans. Amazing. Keep in mind that we have our captain, best player and future star all out of the lineup......and we have won 7 in a row! The depth and youth he has brought in is truly amazing. This team is built to handle the lose of Pronger on the backend (Coburn/Meszaros deals, signing Gus out of college, good draft in Bourdon), is setup to succeed without Giruox (Read, Jagr signings/trade for Voracek and Simmonds/ great draft of Couturier.

All of this....and still......Homer is a Moron. Come on, really.....can we give the guy some credit. First place in the conference with as many injuries as we have, top goal scoring team in the league - he is going to win GM of the year IMO.

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12-16-2011, 05:57 PM
  #622
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You guys have had some set-backs, but you keep on chugging. I am looking forward to the B's Flyers tomorrow. I'm sure you guys will still be in the ECF as you are sound. Sorry about your losses. As a Bruins fan, we know how it feels with Savard out and I hope Pronger gets back next year.

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12-16-2011, 06:07 PM
  #623
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Pronger

Quote:
He made his debut in the 1993–94 NHL season, playing 81 games for the Whalers and earning a spot on the NHL All-Rookie Team. However, Pronger was arrested for drunk driving, involved in a barroom brawl, and was considered by some to be impatient and immature.
I was just looking at Pronger's Wiki entry and didn't know about this!

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12-16-2011, 06:07 PM
  #624
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Pens fan coming in peace.

It's really sad to hear what has happened to Pronger, and I'm in the same boat with dealing with PCS. Hopefully he can recover from this in time.

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12-16-2011, 06:13 PM
  #625
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Quote:
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Pronger



I was just looking at Pronger's Wiki entry and didn't know about this!
I wonder how the media here would have reacted?

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