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Mr. Snider Picks Up The Phone, "hey Pauly Get Me Suter Or Weber Without Giving Up.. "

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Old
12-16-2011, 03:20 PM
  #51
Snotbubbles
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Originally Posted by JoeFlyer View Post
Also right now Nashville have only 12 of this years 21 players signed next year. 5 of those 9 are RFA's (Weber included) and 4 of the 9 are their defense (Weber and Suter included) and they have only $33m to get them all signed up in total cap space (though that will likely change).

Rinne's deal more that doubles next year so even if they expand their spending they don't have a lot of room to play with. Not only that but Weber didn't exactly dive at the offers he got from Nashville this past year so it looks like a longer term cheaper cap deal might not be on the cards either. You'd be thinking Suter is gonna get a much bigger deal too.

If they resign those two they would be a pretty weak team depth wise. Weber and Suter are their only positive D-men in the +/- column as it is...

They might not want to trade but they are most likely gonna be crippling themselves unless they do some very shrewd business for depth players in the summer... (Oh and the year after next the have another 9 players either UFA or RFA...)
What is Nashville setting their payroll at next year?

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12-16-2011, 03:44 PM
  #52
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I just hope they have the sense to stand pat for the moment. The team's forward assets are amazing at the moment.

No need to trade anyone yet. Less so now that MAB seems to be stepping it up, along with all the other defenders.

I'm tired of team blowups with the Flyers.

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12-16-2011, 03:54 PM
  #53
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Yea I wouldnt go trading anyone until you see Gus and MAB in there for a little bit.

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12-16-2011, 03:54 PM
  #54
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People are rediculous in what they want to get rid of to get weber.

Schenn/Couturier/Voracek

Are you mad?

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12-16-2011, 04:02 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFlyer View Post
Also right now Nashville have only 12 of this years 21 players signed next year. 5 of those 9 are RFA's (Weber included) and 4 of the 9 are their defense (Weber and Suter included) and they have only $33m to get them all signed up in total cap space (though that will likely change).

Rinne's deal more that doubles next year so even if they expand their spending they don't have a lot of room to play with. Not only that but Weber didn't exactly dive at the offers he got from Nashville this past year so it looks like a longer term cheaper cap deal might not be on the cards either. You'd be thinking Suter is gonna get a much bigger deal too.

If they resign those two they would be a pretty weak team depth wise. Weber and Suter are their only positive D-men in the +/- column as it is...

They might not want to trade but they are most likely gonna be crippling themselves unless they do some very shrewd business for depth players in the summer... (Oh and the year after next the have another 9 players either UFA or RFA...)
Gotta remember though. Nashville is a defensive minded team, where offense is not on their minds. The wont care to much about deph if they think the trio of Weber/Sutter/Rinne will win them games, which it pretty much does.

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Old
12-16-2011, 04:09 PM
  #56
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for my 2 cents the ONLY assets i'd part with and not blink a eye (doesnt mean i suggest getting rid of all of em either)

Schenn
Marshall
JVR
Carle

return would have to be huge thou. otherwise no dice.

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12-16-2011, 04:10 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
What is Nashville setting their payroll at next year?
Nothing official yet, but Trotz said himself that we'll be a cap team as soon as next year.

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Old
12-16-2011, 04:13 PM
  #58
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Holiday roster freeze

+

Team is on fire

=

Nothing will happen unless we have a couple bad games where our defense is terrible.

And even then, think McCabe, Beauch, Gleason...not Weber/Suter.

I wouldnt mind Beauch or Gleason, and I wonder if Boychuk could be obtained from BOS. He'd cost more because Boston is in the playoff hunt

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Old
12-16-2011, 04:39 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Gotta remember though. Nashville is a defensive minded team, where offense is not on their minds. The wont care to much about deph if they think the trio of Weber/Sutter/Rinne will win them games, which it pretty much does.
Yeah true, but if you're Weber or Suter you might be thinking that to win a cup you're going to have to move... I mean they can make the same money anywhere...

Either way I don't think we should rush into anything, as people have said our top 4 is fine. My concern is that in the long run Timonen is old and has only next year left (not to say he won't resign if he's still up to it), Pronger is now out for this season at least and Carle is UFA at the end of the year... None of our younger guys are top 2 D's in the making so we need to look long term rather than just this year and if there is a opotunity to get a quality long term guy I think we should consider it.

I was kinda hoping we'd draft a D this year seeing as we had Schenn as a great young forward but Couturier has turned out OK I suppose.

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Old
12-16-2011, 04:49 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Soundgarden View Post
Nothing official yet, but Trotz said himself that we'll be a cap team as soon as next year.
If they spent to the cap, they could easily sign Weber, Suter, Rinne.

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12-16-2011, 04:58 PM
  #61
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make small move for #5


Last edited by Kaktus*: 12-16-2011 at 07:09 PM.
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Old
12-16-2011, 06:52 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Gotta remember though. Nashville is a defensive minded team, where offense is not on their minds. The wont care to much about deph if they think the trio of Weber/Sutter/Rinne will win them games, which it pretty much does.
I posted this in a thread on our boards after Rinne was signed.

Quote:
Assuming the cap goes up by $3.2m to make it an even $67.5m we could run with this (note: positions and lines aren't necessarily correct... I just threw it together for the money):

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Patric Hornqvist ($3.083m) / Craig Smith ($0.715m) / Colin Wilson ($3.000m)
Martin Erat ($4.500m) / David Legwand ($4.500m) / Sergei Kostitsyn ($3.250m)
Blake Geoffrion ($1.062m) / Mike Fisher ($4.200m) / Matt Halischuk ($0.712m)
Jordin Tootoo ($1.250m) / Nick Spaling ($1.050m) / Jerred Smithson ($0.800m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kevin Klein ($1.350m) / Shea Weber ($7.000m)
Ryan Suter ($7.000m) / Jonathon Blum ($1.350m)
Francis Bouillon ($1.250m) / Jack Hillen ($0.850m)

GOALTENDERS
Pekka Rinne ($7.000m) / Anders Lindback ($1.000m)

BUYOUTS: J.P. Dumont ($1.333m) / Brett Lebda ($0.466m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $67,500,000; CAP PAYROLL: $56,723,333; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $10,776,667


So after we sign our RFAs and UFAs (notice Suter and Weber both make the same $7m Rinne makes), if the owners really want to be serious about spending to or close to the cap we have over $10m to shop around with. That's after giving Wilson $3m (which I think would be something he would take over a two or three year period, unless he just explodes this year), SK $3.25m (again, fair I think), Blum gets his raise to $1.25m, Geoffrion gets $1.062m, Tootoo and Bouillon stay the same, Hillen gets a slight raise to $850k, Lindback gets a raise to $1m (but we could afford to give him more), and everyone else is the same as this year.

If the owners are really serious about getting close to the cap then that money can buy an extremely good player and STILL have some cushion left over.
Of course, if the cap doesn't raise at all then the team would have $7.5mil left over, but I have a feeling it will go up again. In that hypothetical I give Suter and Weber $7m cap hits each. I think that's fair. I give SK a raise from $2.5m to $3.25m, but, to be honest, if he doesn't step it up soon he will not earn a raise at all. Maybe not even a roster spot. Wilson at $3m for a two or three year deal I think is likely. Tootoo is earning a raise. If SK doesn't shape up then split up the raise given to him among Tootoo and Wilson (if Wilson wants more than $3m.) Hillen isn't earning a raise, or even a spot, so there's another small amount of money that can be put elsewhere. Smith looks like he will keep his spot. Blum was sent back down. If he is passed up by Josi there is more money saved. Bouillon may or may not be back, but either way that role is filled on the cheap. I think Lindback is traded, but if not I don't see him getting much more than $1m (which he may or may not take). If he wants more there is some money to play with. Geoffrion has been sent down. He may be replaced a bit cheaper, or he may be on the squad next season.

And there is always the chance Radulov comes back. I don't know anyone who is counting on it, but his return for next season is still probable enough to take into consideration.

The bottom line is that the money exists to sign Weber and Suter to sizable deals while having enough left over to fill any perceived holes. Right now defense is a bigger issue than offense, which is odd. Nashville is in a three way tie for 13th in total scoring, and is 3rd on the PP (yeah I don't know what's going on either...)

There is always the chance that one or both of them decide they don't like it here and want to move on. If that happens Nashville and Philly have a bit of a trade history in recent years

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Old
12-16-2011, 07:18 PM
  #63
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I expect the cap will be flat or down next year, because the players share will likely drop from 57 to something in the 50-53 range.

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12-16-2011, 09:03 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
I expect the cap will be flat or down next year, because the players share will likely drop from 57 to something in the 50-53 range.
Doesn't the huge 10 year deal between NBC and NHL affect next year's cap?

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12-16-2011, 11:26 PM
  #65
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We want Beauchemin!

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Old
12-17-2011, 12:11 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Think kinda like Pronger trade without that much of a salary dump.

Schenn + two 1st I think
Suter (or Weber) vs Schenn + 2 1sts + carle


is it worth the upgrade (over carle) to trade now? or should we wait for UFA

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Old
12-17-2011, 12:18 AM
  #67
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Just wait it out. Do nothing major until the trade deadline at least.

No reason to make a panic move and give up the assets that you acculmulated this summer.
This. Wait for the market.

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Old
12-17-2011, 12:46 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
I expect the cap will be flat or down next year, because the players share will likely drop from 57 to something in the 50-53 range.
Quote:
Originally Posted by haleks View Post
Doesn't the huge 10 year deal between NBC and NHL affect next year's cap?
Right, revenue from the new TV deal should be kicking in.


The cap hasn't stopped going up since it's been brought in -- for various reasons, but nonetheless the cap has not stopped going up. I don't see why that wouldn't continue aside from the re-negotiations of the CBA.

Given that, if the formula is change, there will likely be an amnesty period like the NHL had in 2005, or the NBA just had where you can get out from bad contracts. I'd imagine that the Flyers would do something with Pronger's contract then.

Assuming his career is over (which isn't a given even though the situation looks grim right now), Pronger can go on LTIR for 5 years, but that eats at your cap if you're going over because of it. You can replace his salary each year, but it's not a free pass to exceed the cap.

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12-17-2011, 02:30 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
Or they trade Suter a week before FA and get something.

I know one team that won't have a problem giving them something.
Yeah, I would absolutely love to get Suter or Weber, but I can't see Nashville trading them during the season. Unless they either fall off the playoff race and it becomes clear that they won't re-sign, or they receive an absolutely insane overpayment from some desperate GM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kicksave27 View Post
I like beauchemin, he's solid and shouldn't be too costly. Homers got 2nd's burning a hole in his pocket. Even without pronger the flyers top 4 is still pretty good. Get a solid vet for the 5th guy that plays SH. MAB, GUS, lily for the 6th. And hope G comes back.
I think we could stand to add a dman as well, though there's no need for the panic kind of pickups we've done in the past where we went out and signed Krajicek off the scrap heap or traded for Andrew Alberts. Bourdon and Marshalll have done a nice enough job filling in for us, and Gustafsson and Lilja aren't too far away from returning.

Timonen-Coburn
Meszaros-Gustafsson
Carle-Bourdon
Lilja

that is pretty solid if we stand pat a little longer. For the playoffs though, I'd want to see a more reliable guy in there. A quality #4-5 that can play on the pk. I think Gleason would make a lot of sense for us.

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12-17-2011, 02:40 AM
  #70
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So help me, if Homer makes a panic move I will lose all faith in this team. You don't fix something that isn't broken.

Prime example, we were winning just fine before Homer went out and got Versteeg. He threw off the chemistry and was placed on so many different lines (and gelled with no one).

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12-17-2011, 06:02 AM
  #71
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I think we could stand to add a dman as well, though there's no need for the panic kind of pickups we've done in the past where we went out and signed Krajicek off the scrap heap or traded for Andrew Alberts. Bourdon and Marshalll have done a nice enough job filling in for us, and Gustafsson and Lilja aren't too far away from returning.

Timonen-Coburn
Meszaros-Gustafsson
Carle-Bourdon
Lilja

that is pretty solid if we stand pat a little longer. For the playoffs though, I'd want to see a more reliable guy in there. A quality #4-5 that can play on the pk. I think Gleason would make a lot of sense for us.
I think that's pretty much how I feel about it, stand for now but at the same time I'd be sceptical about that D come the playoffs. I just think that if there is an opotunity to sort out the defense in the longer term with a big name then take it now. In a season and a half the big names on our D might just be Mezs and Coburn and that would suck from having Pronger, Timonen and Carle as well.

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12-17-2011, 06:09 AM
  #72
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The first thing that Snider said this year was that there was not going to be the overpaying for the UFA's this year. We are going to do it properly, and build from scratch. So far, We've blown up the roster and dramatically reduced the age of the forwards. This year I expect the same for the defense. The time of patching holes has stopped I believe.

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12-17-2011, 09:22 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PycckuuRocket10 View Post
So help me, if Homer makes a panic move I will lose all faith in this team. You don't fix something that isn't broken.

Prime example, we were winning just fine before Homer went out and got Versteeg. He threw off the chemistry and was placed on so many different lines (and gelled with no one).
If one guy threw off the chemistry of the entire team, then you did not have chemistry to start with. They couldn't go into the playoffs with Carcillo saddled on a line with Richards. They also weren't going back to the finals no matter what happened. Trading for Kris Versteeg should have had nothing to do with Ville Leino going into the tank or Matt Carle looking like a lost little boy.


Keep in mind, they did win a round in the playoffs. That's impressive given the results of previous Cup Finals runners-up.

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12-17-2011, 10:12 AM
  #74
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Listen, count the number of teams over the last 25 years who have wona Cup without having at least one superstar DMan in their lineup. I can only think of a few, perhaps TB and Carolina.... Even the Bruins last year were a rarity cuz they had only one bona fide DMan superstar Chara (Kaberle underperformed, Sedidenberg is no superstar, and who the heck is Johny Boychuk)...

Yeah, to have a good shot at a Cup you need at least two superstar Dmen. At the moment we have one, who is old and perhaps a year away from retirement.

Few teams win Cups with a whole bunch of 'good Dmen'.. they win with a pair iof superstars, another pair of good Dmen of the same caliber as Coburn and Mesz, and another bottom pairing who hardly play any minutes at all.

That's the formula on defense folks. Two superstars, two good Dmen, and two nobodies.

Right now we have one elderly superstar (Timo) and three good Dmen (Coburn, Mesz, and possibly Carle). Shortly we nay be down to zero superstars, plus the latter three mentionned.

Wrong formula, guys.

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12-17-2011, 10:28 AM
  #75
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If one guy threw off the chemistry of the entire team, then you did not have chemistry to start with.
Lindros returning in the ECF.

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