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Feb 8 update posted: Pronger (concussion) likely out for the season

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Old
12-16-2011, 05:30 PM
  #626
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Didnt see this posted but:

Quote:
#Flyers announced that (D) Andreas Lilja has been loaned to their AHL affiliate, the Adirondack Phantoms, on a conditioning assignment.
-NHLFlyers.

Seems like Gustafsson and Lilja are coming back within the next week or two. Increases the chances of no trade.

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12-16-2011, 05:37 PM
  #627
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Isn't Lilja waiver eligible?

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12-16-2011, 05:48 PM
  #628
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Conditioning assignment. I think he has to come back after either 3 or 5 games.

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12-16-2011, 05:49 PM
  #629
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Oh right, i forgot about those. Sweet.

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12-16-2011, 06:39 PM
  #630
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Posted this in another thread, figured I'd post it here too:


I have a pretty well-regarded neurologist in my family who also happens to be an avid sports fan, so I asked him for his take on all of this... here's the summary:

-Pronger being out for the rest of the season isn't a definite. It is the concussion experts' "best guess" at when his symptoms may subside based on their current severity.

-I say "best guess" because 90% of concussions and post-concussion syndrome injuries don't show up on an MRI or any other type of scan, so neurologists can't go by anything other than the symptoms. And they can't put together anything more than an "educated guess" on how long a player will be sidelined being that they can't actually see how severely the brain is injured or how well / fast it is healing.

-Pronger could indeed never have the symptoms go away and he could be done for his career... this happens in a rare few cases of severe post concussion syndrome... HOWEVER, it's just as likely (if not more likely) that he is symptom free in 2-3 months and ready to go for the playoffs. Basically, the odds are equal for Pronger being out either longer or shorter than the time-frame the doctor gave.


My guess (and this is me hypothesizing) is that the Flyers reported the news as they did so that Pronger doesn't become a constant distraction to the team. Being asked every day for progress reports, asking players how they feel without their captain, if they've heard any news or if they've heard so and so rumor is terribly distracting and can derail a team.

In the way that the Flyers have handled things, the team now has certainty. Pronger won't be back and it's up to everyone else to shoulder the load and go forward. Everyone knows what they need to do... there is 0 uncertainty.

And if Pronger does somehow come back, it will be a total surprise and a gigantic boost to the team.

This was 100% the best way for the Flyers to handle it (regardless of whether Pronger is 100% not coming back for the playoffs or if it's just "doubtful" he comes back for the playoffs). The way they've handled things, there's no let-down if he doesn't come back (which is the expected outcome), but there's a huge boost if he can in fact return.

Well done Homer and co... you handled this announcement properly IMO.

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Old
12-16-2011, 07:25 PM
  #631
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Lilja is ready to go. He is 100% healthy. The main reason why he is not in the line up is because he is still on LTIR. LTIR ends Dec 21st. It's all about cap space.


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12-16-2011, 08:29 PM
  #632
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Is lilja an improvement? Im not too sure

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12-16-2011, 08:55 PM
  #633
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Honestly, I don't know if they really CAN replace Pronger long term. All the guy has to do is file retirement papers, and you are screwed if you replace it completely.

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12-16-2011, 09:35 PM
  #634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Honestly, I don't know if they really CAN replace Pronger long term. All the guy has to do is file retirement papers, and you are screwed if you replace it completely.
What is his incentive to file retirement papers?

If the Flyers replace him, they'll do so leaving room long-term for Pronger to return, or they'll leave themselves in position to make a move should return.

But if for some reason they didn't and they told Pronger "sorry, we can't let you return", where's his incentive to say he's OK and then retire?

If he just stays on LTIR:
-He gets paid
-The Flyers don't get screwed
-Pronger can't play

If he does retires:
-He doesn't get paid
-The flyers get screwed
-Pronger still can't play as he's the property of the Flyers

So... yeah.

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Old
12-16-2011, 10:54 PM
  #635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
Posted this in another thread, figured I'd post it here too:


I have a pretty well-regarded neurologist in my family who also happens to be an avid sports fan, so I asked him for his take on all of this... here's the summary:

-Pronger being out for the rest of the season isn't a definite. It is the concussion experts' "best guess" at when his symptoms may subside based on their current severity.

-I say "best guess" because 90% of concussions and post-concussion syndrome injuries don't show up on an MRI or any other type of scan, so neurologists can't go by anything other than the symptoms. And they can't put together anything more than an "educated guess" on how long a player will be sidelined being that they can't actually see how severely the brain is injured or how well / fast it is healing.

-Pronger could indeed never have the symptoms go away and he could be done for his career... this happens in a rare few cases of severe post concussion syndrome... HOWEVER, it's just as likely (if not more likely) that he is symptom free in 2-3 months and ready to go for the playoffs. Basically, the odds are equal for Pronger being out either longer or shorter than the time-frame the doctor gave.


My guess (and this is me hypothesizing) is that the Flyers reported the news as they did so that Pronger doesn't become a constant distraction to the team. Being asked every day for progress reports, asking players how they feel without their captain, if they've heard any news or if they've heard so and so rumor is terribly distracting and can derail a team.

In the way that the Flyers have handled things, the team now has certainty. Pronger won't be back and it's up to everyone else to shoulder the load and go forward. Everyone knows what they need to do... there is 0 uncertainty.

And if Pronger does somehow come back, it will be a total surprise and a gigantic boost to the team.

This was 100% the best way for the Flyers to handle it (regardless of whether Pronger is 100% not coming back for the playoffs or if it's just "doubtful" he comes back for the playoffs). The way they've handled things, there's no let-down if he doesn't come back (which is the expected outcome), but there's a huge boost if he can in fact return.

Well done Homer and co... you handled this announcement properly IMO.
I'm pretty sure this is exactly what I was saying, except with no neurologist haha. I this this is most logically where we stand.

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Old
12-16-2011, 11:39 PM
  #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyOnTheSpot View Post
I'm pretty sure this is exactly what I was saying, except with no neurologist haha. I this this is most logically where we stand.



Pronger's agent was on hockey Cemtral and said Doctor's were pretty forthright with their suggestion of shutting him down and said zero chance of him coming back this season. I was holding the same hope you guys were up until then.

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Old
12-16-2011, 11:59 PM
  #637
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Does the Flyers have to PAY Pronger to have him on the LTIR, or could it (in time) be possible for the club and the player to make some kind of severance package semi-illegal agreement so that he could stay on the LTIR and freeing up our cap space without us having to pay him? Down the road, I mean. Because I wonder, how much is $5M in cap space worth in hard cash? Would it be worth having us pay Pronger $1M (random number) for each year he'd stay on the LTIR instead of retiring?
I mean, wasn't it either Rathje or Hatcher who stayed for like 3 years on the LTIR instead of retiring so that he could still get payed and flyers' hands were tied? Note that this is a question, not a statement, since I do not recall if this was even in flyers this happened, but I read something for some time ago about some player not retiring even though his career was shot so that he could get paid. Don't remember the source though, might've just been a blog or a forum so I really don't know, that's why I'm asking, anybody know anything about this?

And I also wonder, with the current union agreement, how much does a player on the long term injury reserve get paid? Is it 50 % of his original salary? 100 %? 75 %? I'm just throwing out numbers, but it can't be a 100 % can it? Doesn't feel like the clubs would accept that. And it couldn't be 0 %, could it, the NHLPA seem way to greedy to accept that. Or is it an insurance matter altogether? I really don't know how these things work in the US and Canada and how it might differ with the really suspect collective agreements pro sports unions seem to have compared to regular jobs' collective agreements.

I'm sorry if these questions have been asked but I haven't been able to google a reliable source about any of these. Please enlighten me, dear hfboarders.


Last edited by thephillyflu: 12-17-2011 at 12:08 AM.
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Old
12-17-2011, 12:45 AM
  #638
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Originally Posted by rafman522 View Post
Is lilja an improvement? Im not too sure
if anything it'll be nice to be able to give one of our rooks a couple nights off.

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12-17-2011, 06:16 AM
  #639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
Posted this in another thread, figured I'd post it here too:


I have a pretty well-regarded neurologist in my family who also happens to be an avid sports fan, so I asked him for his take on all of this... here's the summary:

-Pronger being out for the rest of the season isn't a definite. It is the concussion experts' "best guess" at when his symptoms may subside based on their current severity.

-I say "best guess" because 90% of concussions and post-concussion syndrome injuries don't show up on an MRI or any other type of scan, so neurologists can't go by anything other than the symptoms. And they can't put together anything more than an "educated guess" on how long a player will be sidelined being that they can't actually see how severely the brain is injured or how well / fast it is healing.

-Pronger could indeed never have the symptoms go away and he could be done for his career... this happens in a rare few cases of severe post concussion syndrome... HOWEVER, it's just as likely (if not more likely) that he is symptom free in 2-3 months and ready to go for the playoffs. Basically, the odds are equal for Pronger being out either longer or shorter than the time-frame the doctor gave.


My guess (and this is me hypothesizing) is that the Flyers reported the news as they did so that Pronger doesn't become a constant distraction to the team. Being asked every day for progress reports, asking players how they feel without their captain, if they've heard any news or if they've heard so and so rumor is terribly distracting and can derail a team.

In the way that the Flyers have handled things, the team now has certainty. Pronger won't be back and it's up to everyone else to shoulder the load and go forward. Everyone knows what they need to do... there is 0 uncertainty.

And if Pronger does somehow come back, it will be a total surprise and a gigantic boost to the team.

This was 100% the best way for the Flyers to handle it (regardless of whether Pronger is 100% not coming back for the playoffs or if it's just "doubtful" he comes back for the playoffs). The way they've handled things, there's no let-down if he doesn't come back (which is the expected outcome), but there's a huge boost if he can in fact return.

Well done Homer and co... you handled this announcement properly IMO.
Yup I called it earlier in this thread. The flyers have had enough of the will we wont we. Just get it out the way early.

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Old
12-17-2011, 07:48 AM
  #640
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I'm not home now so I can't give you a direct link but go to thestar.com, today's edition, and read the article about him. It's based on the article Ken Campbell wrote in The Hockey News yesterday and it's pretty damned scary.

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12-17-2011, 09:04 AM
  #641
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Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
Pronger's agent was on hockey Cemtral and said Doctor's were pretty forthright with their suggestion of shutting him down and said zero chance of him coming back this season. I was holding the same hope you guys were up until then.
Well, duh, the neurologists are in Pittsburgh! (Looking at potential playoffs against Penguins) "Mr. Pronger, you have really, really severe concussion symptoms, and we don't think you should play at all this season. We see that your symptoms are brought on especially by colours like gold and black [yes, we know black isn't a colour] and by flightless birds. Yes, you should avoid these at all costs."

How about Holmgren bars Panaccio from the locker room for a month and see if Pronger's symptoms disappear?

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12-17-2011, 09:19 AM
  #642
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Honestly, I don't know if they really CAN replace Pronger long term. All the guy has to do is file retirement papers, and you are screwed if you replace it completely.
It's unlikely that he leaves roughly $19M on the table.

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12-17-2011, 09:47 AM
  #643
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I agree on your first point. On your second point; Homer still gets no credit from Flyer fans. Amazing. Keep in mind that we have our captain, best player and future star all out of the lineup......and we have won 7 in a row! The depth and youth he has brought in is truly amazing. This team is built to handle the lose of Pronger on the backend (Coburn/Meszaros deals, signing Gus out of college, good draft in Bourdon), is setup to succeed without Giruox (Read, Jagr signings/trade for Voracek and Simmonds/ great draft of Couturier.

All of this....and still......Homer is a Moron. Come on, really.....can we give the guy some credit. First place in the conference with as many injuries as we have, top goal scoring team in the league - he is going to win GM of the year IMO.
Um, chill. If you've seen me post I'm actually a Homer defender. I give him plenty of credit. But anyone who thinks he's looking further than 2-years down the road on most decisions he makes hasn't been watching Homer close enough. He's a solid GM, just not a great GM.

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12-17-2011, 09:48 AM
  #644
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Pens fan coming in peace:

Never been a huge fan of Pronger but by the same token you hate to see this happen to anyone. Hopefully by ending the season now and focusing on recovery and not returning, he'll give himself a shot to be back by next holiday season. Seems like half the ****ing league is going down with concussions. Giroux, Letang, Skinner, the Michalek brothers... probably others I'm not thinking of. This stuff is getting out of hand. Not sure if guys have been this bad off before and were hiding it or if something different is happening out there to cause more concussive hits. FUBAR.

That said I hope you don't get Weber or if you do, that you have to give JVR, Carle and a 1st to do it. Would not look forward to playing you guys with Weber on your blueline. Suter would worry me less but either way I'm sure Holmgren will do something substantial before the deadline.


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12-17-2011, 10:14 AM
  #645
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If Pronger is done how can they not sign Carle? If they sign him for the same deal as Coburn/Mez they would have 3 top four dmen under 28 y/o locked for under $5M and you get Kimo money the following year to sign or trade for another stud #1 dman.

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Old
12-17-2011, 10:17 AM
  #646
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
Our 7-game winning streak without Pronger points and laughs at this post.

Other thing worth noting is that this post acts as if Homer has a track record of looking long-term in his decisions.
Whoopee! We're winning thru the halfway point of the regular season.

GUYS, I'm thinking of PLAYOFFS and STANLY CUP, not some reg season games!!

Sheesh!

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12-17-2011, 10:47 AM
  #647
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Pens fan coming in peace:

Never been a huge fan of Pronger but by the same token you hate to see this happen to anyone. Hopefully by ending the season now and focusing on recovery and not returning, he'll give himself a shot to be back by next holiday season. Seems like half the ****ing league is going down with concussions. Giroux, Letang, Skinner, the Michalek brothers... probably others I'm not thinking of. This stuff is getting out of hand. Not sure if guys have been this bad off before and were hiding it or if something different is happening out there to cause more concussive hits. FUBAR.

That said I hope you don't get Weber or if you do, that you have to give JVR, Carle and a 1st to do it. Would not look forward to playing you guys with Weber on your blueline. Suter would worry me less but either way I'm sure Holmgren will do something substantial before the deadline.
Where do I sign?

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12-17-2011, 04:09 PM
  #648
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Where do I sign?
Haha. Yah, haven't really given any thought to what the actual value would be except that it would be high and require one of your best young F and obviously Giroux isn't going anywhere. Whatever it ends up being I hope it's expensive. And I mean that in the best possible way.

Saw on your board maybe two other guys are concussed also? Turning into a ****ing plague league-wide. Richards too apparently. Will be interesting to see how this impacts the game / if the league will attempt more rule changes. Could get ugly.

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12-17-2011, 06:40 PM
  #649
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Where do I sign?
I would want a second or third rounder coming back. JVR is young and signed for six years. That cost certainty adds a lot to his value IMO. That said fi you're trading for Shea Weber, what you're giving up should probably hurt a little bit. That trade hruts, but just a little bit.

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12-17-2011, 08:17 PM
  #650
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I would want a second or third rounder coming back. JVR is young and signed for six years. That cost certainty adds a lot to his value IMO. That said fi you're trading for Shea Weber, what you're giving up should probably hurt a little bit. That trade hruts, but just a little bit.
I think the cap hit for JvR would be more of a deterrent since he hasn't proven anything again this year. Everyone expected his playoff play to carry over but he's been invisible more often than not.

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