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Study suggests canadians would support fighting ban

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Old
12-17-2011, 02:09 AM
  #51
Trottier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tavaresmagicalplay View Post
Ken Dryden is a former nhl player no? He's come out against fighting.
That's one. Keep 'em coming Got a ways to go!

Seriously, I respect his POV, as well as those of non-players (fans; media weenies) who want to eviscerate the sport further, I really do.

However, I find amusing those few misguided fans who actually think their opinion should outweigh that of people in the game. As I said, buy a ticket, own the players and entire sport, apparently.

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12-17-2011, 02:12 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
So reading a book is something to frown upon? Something to use as an insult toward someone? Something used to suggest that a person is what... against physicality in the game? To suggest someone is a... sissy?

Spell it out for me.

This is one of my biggest gripes with North American sports culture in general: the preponderance of meatheads. Do you have to be illiterate, guzzle cheap domestic beer, stuff chicken wings in your mouth while scratching your balls in order to be accepted and have your opinion on physicality validated?

I love the physical aspect of hockey. I play adult hockey. I enjoy delivering some nice checks. I love checking for Phaneuf's clean hits; his hits on Stephan Da Costa and Sauer were awesome.

But I think staged fighting is pointless.

I also happen to read a book now and then. Does that invalidate my opinion?


Buddy you told someone that he hangs around a bunch of "retards" because they don't want fighting banned.

Give your head a shake and validate why his peers are "retards" but yours are not?


Lets poll HF and see how many people want fighting banned. I guess the majority of people around here would be "retards" to then?

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12-17-2011, 02:12 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsnTpoint View Post
You want a survey from actual hockey fans?

Put a poll on here, let the media report what comes from that.

Fighting is part of the game.
Anything that puts a player in the penalty box for five minutes isn't part of the game.

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12-17-2011, 02:13 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
That's one! Keep 'em coming! God a ways to go!

Seriously, I respect his POV and those of non-players (fans, media weenies) who want to eviscerate the sport further, I really do.

However, I find it humrous those fans who actually think their opinion should outweigh that of people in the game.
Yeah, it's ridiculous to expect the people who pay for everything (the buildings, the salaries of the players, etc.), you know, the fans, to have a say in anything.

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12-17-2011, 02:15 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Stickmata View Post
Yeah, it's ridiculous to expect the people who pay for everything (the buildings, the salaries of the players, etc.), you know, the fans, to have a say in anything.
May I suggest acquiring a sense of proportionality?

You want to run the game, re-program your EA Sports console. The NHL is not your toy. It is a form of entertainment. You pay for the entertainment. You do not get to produce/direct it.

As a fan, having an opinion about fighting is quite different than expecting the NHL to act upon it. If the NHL listened to some on this board, the bluelines would be eliminated, goalies could be run outside the crease and players would be paid minimum wage.


Last edited by Trottier: 12-17-2011 at 02:20 AM.
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12-17-2011, 02:17 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by tsnTpoint View Post
Ever though maybe your the one hanging out with a bunch of retards?

Hockey is a physical game, fighting is part of it. Go sip some tea, and read a book now.
No, retards are the ones who think like you do, i.e., that anyone who wants fighting ban never played the game, isn't tough, drinks tea (?), etc. Lots of fans who 'played the game' are tired of fighting and wouldn't miss it if it were gone. There are two points of view here. Neither is wrong. What's wrong is anyone who thinks that one side is comprised of the tough, real hockey fans and the other is comprised of the sissy, never played the game fans. That's a ridiculous notion spewed by morons.

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12-17-2011, 02:17 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
May I suggest acquiring a sense of proportionality?

You want to run the game, re-program your EA Sports console. The NHL is not your toy.

As a fan, having an opinion about fighting is quite different than expecting the NHL to act upon it.
Don't even waste your time with that guy.

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Old
12-17-2011, 02:18 AM
  #58
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i dont think i've ever met someone who would support a fighting ban

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12-17-2011, 02:19 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
May I suggest acquiring a sense of proportionality?

You want to run the game, re-program your EA Sports console. The NHL is not your toy.

As a fan, having an opinion about fighting is quite different than expecting the NHL to act upon it.
Sorry, I thought this thread was about the results of an opinion poll. Who said anything about expecting anyone to act on anything? Did you fail reading comprehension in school?

The poll results are not surprising at all and I think you'd get similar results if you polled people here in the States. The majority of hockey fans would be fine if fighting were banned. Doesn't mean they're all clamoring for it or are going to stop being a fan if it's not. Just means they would support the decision to remove it if the NHL chose to do so.

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12-17-2011, 02:20 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickmata View Post
No, retards are the ones who think like you do, i.e., that anyone who wants fighting ban never played the game, isn't tough, drinks tea (?), etc. Lots of fans who 'played the game' are tired of fighting and wouldn't miss it if it were gone. There are two points of view here. Neither is wrong. What's wrong is anyone who thinks that one side is comprised of the tough, real hockey fans and the other is comprised of the sissy, never played the game fans. That's a ridiculous notion spewed by morons.
Why do the majority of fans American or Canadian get out of there chairs to cheer on fights?

Was last years Stanley cup finals not one of the best? Had fighting been banned from it, what sort of circus would that thing have turned into?

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12-17-2011, 02:22 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsnTpoint View Post
Buddy you told someone that he hangs around a bunch of "retards" because they don't want fighting banned.

Give your head a shake and validate why his peers are "retards" but yours are not?


Lets poll HF and see how many people want fighting banned. I guess the majority of people around here would be "retards" to then?
Buddy, you're talking to the wrong ****ing person. I never told anyone that anyone hangs around a bunch of retards.

Get literate; go back and read carefully. Be honest and accept your mistake; because I never said anyone or anyone's circle of friends are ********. You're referring to some other user.


Last edited by saffronleaf: 12-17-2011 at 02:28 AM.
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12-17-2011, 02:22 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Stickmata View Post
Sorry, I thought this thread was about the results of an opinion poll. Who said anything about expecting anyone to act on anything? Did you fail reading comprehension in school?

The poll results are not surprising at all and I think you get similar results if you polled people here in the States. The majority of hockey fans would be fine if fighting were banned. Doesn't mean they're all clamoring for it or are going to stop being a fan if it's not. Just means they would support the decision to remove it if the NHL chose to do so.
I guess everyone who supports fighting these days is illiterate.

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Old
12-17-2011, 02:25 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsnTpoint View Post
Why do the majority of fans American or Canadian get out of there chairs to cheer on fights?

Was last years Stanley cup finals not one of the best? Had fighting been banned from it, what sort of circus would that thing have turned into?
Not sure what you're even arguing at this point, because you're obviously missing the point. You're debating the merits of fighting or not. This thread was about whether the poll was accurate or not. Two totally different things, but feel free to continue to debate against yourself if you want.

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12-17-2011, 02:26 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by tsnTpoint View Post
I guess everyone who supports fighting these days is illiterate.
No just you, because you continue to struggle with reading comprehension.

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12-17-2011, 02:26 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
May I suggest acquiring a sense of proportionality?

You want to run the game, re-program your EA Sports console. The NHL is not your toy. It is a form of entertainment. You pay for the entertainment. You do not get to produce/direct it.

As a fan, having an opinion about fighting is quite different than expecting the NHL to act upon it. If the NHL listened to some on this board, the bluelines would be eliminated, goalies could be run outside the crease and players would be paid minimum wage.
You're correct if you're talking about one single fan that has a problem with something about the game.

Now please understand: I don't think this poll is accurate or reflective of popular opinion.

However, IF it is an accurate representation of popular opinion, then of course that opinion carries weight and matters significantly.

The NHL isn't composed of a group of starving bohemian artists who do what they please regardless of what others think. The NHL is a business whose goal is to cater to the whims of its audience in order to entertain them and therefore produce revenues for the owners of its franchises.

SO you're right that one person's opinion won't matter; that may be a case of a fan exaggerating his/her self-importance. But if 60% of fans agree on something, and they take a hard stance on something, you better believe that the NHL will seriously consider that opinion.

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12-17-2011, 02:26 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsnTpoint View Post
Why do the majority of fans American or Canadian get out of there chairs to cheer on fights?

Was last years Stanley cup finals not one of the best? Had fighting been banned from it, what sort of circus would that thing have turned into?
I don't see how a ban on fighting would have affected last year's Stanley Cup Final.

1) There's barely ever any fighting in the playoffs in general, and that's with fighting being "allowed" (technically it's not allowed).
2) The argument that fighting would reduce the amount of cheap-shotting in hockey, which the bolded text alludes to, does not apply to the Canucks. Their system is based on non-retaliation and scoring on the power play*.

*A system that didn't do very well in the Stanley Cup Final.

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Old
12-17-2011, 02:29 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Stickmata View Post
No just you, because you continue to struggle with reading comprehension.
ELE! Everybody love Everbody.

http://www.kevinneeld.com/wp-content...ackie-Moon.jpg

But seriously if you want us to think you are smarter than him. Stop and let him have the last word before the thread gets closed.

Kthxbye

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12-17-2011, 02:36 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
You're correct if you're talking about one single fan that has a problem with something about the game.

Now please understand: I don't think this poll is accurate or reflective of popular opinion.

However, IF it is an accurate representation of popular opinion, then of course that opinion carries weight and matters significantly.

The NHL isn't composed of a group of starving bohemian artists who do what they please regardless of what others think. The NHL is a business whose goal is to cater to the whims of its audience in order to entertain them and therefore produce revenues for the owners of its franchises.

SO you're right that one person's opinion won't matter; that may be a case of a fan exaggerating his/her self-importance. But if 60% of fans agree on something, and they take a hard stance on something, you better believe that the NHL will seriously consider that opinion.
I appreciate well articulated (and respectful) point of view.

But the NHL already considers this topic (fighting). And ultimately, they do not and will not (nor should, IMO), base their decision on such matters on a...fan poll. Would fan sentiment factor in? Perhaps, if they ever got to serious consideration of banning fighting. However, factors such as players' health, and the potential consequences of eliminating fighting, i.e., more stickwork, etc., will take priority.

I'll end my participation in this thread on that harmonious note...and get back to enjoying the NHL that is.

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12-17-2011, 02:54 AM
  #69
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The issue with this poll isn't the size of the sample. Most polls use approximately the same number of respondents in their sample population, with a relatively low percentage of error.

The issue is whether the sample population is representative of the target population. For the NHL, the target population is (I would assume), "people who pay money to watch hockey, purchase merchandise, etc". As far as I know, this poll surveyed average Canadians, without taking into consideration if they were a hockey fan or not (that's right, not all Canadians are hockey fans ). This is similar to polling 1000 Canadians and asking them if they were supportive of banning the UFC from holding events in their cities. The UFC doesn't care if large percentages of people who don't pay for their product disapprove of their practices, and I assume the NHL shares that sentiment.

If a poll came out that asked NHL fans if they supported banning fighting in hockey, then that would carry more weight in the mind of the NHL brass. But then the problem of defining "fan" would become an issue.

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12-17-2011, 02:56 AM
  #70
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Im sure I'll get flamed for this, and what Im saying surely isn't the first time it's been purposed. But what if the penalty for fighting was ejection from the game? Nothing more, nothing less. If something needs to be settled, it can be. Someone takes a cheap shot, they can still be held accountable. Goons are gone because its essentially a wasted spot on the roster. Anti fighting crowds get the fights cut in half, or more. Everybody wins

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12-17-2011, 02:59 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sambo View Post
Im sure I'll get flamed for this, and what Im saying surely isn't the first time it's been purposed. But what if the penalty for fighting was ejection from the game? Nothing more, nothing less. If something needs to be settled, it can be. Someone takes a cheap shot, they can still be held accountable. Goons are gone because its essentially a wasted spot on the roster. Anti fighting crowds get the fights cut in half, or more. Everybody wins
The only way this would work is if the punishment was ejected for the rest of the game and an automatic one game suspension. Otherwise the players would postpone their fights to the end of the third period.

I believe this is how European leagues discipline players for fighting?

EDIT

That's how the IIHF punishes hockey, and basically every league except the NHL uses those rules in order to discipline fighting as well.

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12-17-2011, 03:02 AM
  #72
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I think they should look at banning it from jr hockey first, those are kids who are probably going to need there brains for more then playing hockey they should be protected.

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12-17-2011, 03:54 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
May I suggest acquiring a sense of proportionality?

You want to run the game, re-program your EA Sports console. The NHL is not your toy. It is a form of entertainment. You pay for the entertainment. You do not get to produce/direct it.

As a fan, having an opinion about fighting is quite different than expecting the NHL to act upon it. If the NHL listened to some on this board, the bluelines would be eliminated, goalies could be run outside the crease and players would be paid minimum wage.
See here's the thing: This isn't about what the fans want. It's about facts. It's about scientific evidence. It's about what should be done for the good of the guys playing in the league.

The poll deals with Canada specifically because fighting is more ingrained in Canadian hockey than hockey anywhere else in the world. There's no fighting in the NCAAs, the European leagues, or amateur hockey. Canadian juniors are the only leagues that allow fighting outside of the North American pros. If the polling data says that Canadians will accept a ban on fighting, then there's no reason that any country wouldn't.

Now look at the science. If anyone in here hasn't read the NY Times three-part series on Boogard, then stop and go read it now. Part three is especially damning.

Here's part 1: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/04/sp...rawl.html?_r=1

Here's part 2: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/05/sp...n-the-ice.html

Here's part 3: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/06/sp...pagewanted=all

Here's the money quote for those of you who don't want to read the whole thing:

Quote:
The scientists on the far end of the conference call told the Boogaard family that they were shocked to see so much damage in someone so young. It appeared to be spreading through his brain. Had Derek Boogaard lived, they said, his condition likely would have worsened into middle-age dementia.
Now people may argue that Boogard was an extreme outlier. The fact of the matter is that four out of four NHL player brains they've tested have been found positive for the C.T.E. condition Boogard had. That includes Rick Martin, who wasn't a brawler by any stretch of the imagination. Ken Dryden is right. We need to reduce unnecessary head trauma of all kinds in the game. None of it's harmless. Fighting is at the top of the list. And if anyone wants to argue that it is necessary, then let me ask you this: Why do they manage to get along without it so well in the European leagues, the NCAAs, amateurs, and for the most part, the NHL playoffs? You may like fighting, but the fact of the matter is that fighting and hockey are NOT one and the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreMogilny View Post
I saw this before the Leafs game on TV.

Wanna know the sample size they took?

It was just over 1000 people.

This is why I hate these kind of statistics.
You could basically substitute the word math for "these kinds of statistics." Because that's what we're talking about here, not goals and assists. Ask any statistics professor. I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to track down the email address of a stat professor at a local community college or something. Sample sizes don't have to be massive. Increasing the sample size actually doesn't affect the accuracy of a poll once you hit the minimum number required to do a poll. The key to an accurate poll once the minimum sample size has been reached is to make sure the respondents are properly varied to match the demographics of the polling group.

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12-17-2011, 04:44 AM
  #74
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Not that I am a fighting advocate, but without the nuts and bolts of the study, you should be wary about this poll. It's easy to twist statistics.

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12-17-2011, 04:49 AM
  #75
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This is just more rubbish from the mass media designed to target a certain audience.
Oh wah, fighting too violent for you in Hockey; go watch UFC... oh wait. Thats worse.

Im sorry but theres a million other things going on in the world more violent than a few fights in hockey and I think there are more important concerns affecting hockey right now than fighting.
This poll which from my reading asked a pathetic 1000 people holds absolutely no merit and to be honest has most likely been rigged to get the output that the writers wanted.

Kev.

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